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Posted by Ian on November 11, 1996 at 02:30:10:
| Ian |
If that's me then I'm from Newcastle, NSW, Australia. MMM, Shucks my age. Very quietly now - I'm 31. Arrrrrgh.
Perhaps you'd like to also add my e-pal Anna-Karin who contributes occasionally. She's from Sweden and she's 30.
Posted by Ann2 on November 11, 1996 at 02:40:15:
This is a matter from way back in the much discussed Music room at Pemberley. But I must ask if anyone but myself has been contemplating where Lizzy was going when she was so rudely interrupted by the insinuations of Miss Bingley. (Are the militia still ...)
As I see it there is one empty space on the sofa between Mr Gardiner and Mr Fitzwilliam Darcy straigth forward in her direction!! Would she have cuddled up so near him?
There is another sofa with some space (not much either) between Mrs Gardiner and Mr Hurst, the white whale. And then there is Bingley in an armchair... Opinions ?
Ann2
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Posted by Cheryl on November 11, 1996 at 02:52:09:
But we all delude ourselves. We all rationalize. Remember what Jeff Goldblum's character said about rationalizations in The Big Chill?
Amy
_______
"None of us could survive a single day without a good dose of rationalizations. It's more important than sex."
Or something to that effect.
Cheryl (another link, Amy!)
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Posted by Joan, too on November 11, 1996 at 02:53:50:
£ This is a matter from way back in the much discussed Music room at Pemberley. But I must ask if anyone but myself has been contemplating where Lizzy was going when she was so rudely interrupted by the insinuations of Miss Bingley. (Are the militia still ...)
£ As I see it there is one empty space on the sofa between Mr Gardiner and Mr Fitzwilliam Darcy straigth forward in her direction!! Would she have cuddled up so near him?
£ There is another sofa with some space (not much either) between Mrs Gardiner and Mr Hurst, the white whale. And then there is Bingley in an armchair... Opinions ?
£ Ann2
_______
Yes, I had considered this and in my mind had determined that she would probably have been on her way to rescue her poor aunt from the sole company of the white whale, whose presence would really qualify more as an absence. (This would also have been a more or less safe perspective from which to further observe Darcy.)
Joan, too
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Posted by Cheryl on November 11, 1996 at 03:10:08:
£ But we all delude ourselves. We all rationalize. Remember what Jeff Goldblum's character said about rationalizations in The Big Chill?
£ Amy
£
£ _______
£ "None of us could survive a single day without a good dose of rationalizations. It's more important than sex."
£ Or something to that effect.
£ Cheryl (another link, Amy!)
_______
No, now I recall- they were juicy rationalizations!
Cheryl
Posted by Arnessa on November 11, 1996 at 03:12:10:
£
| Arnessa | USA - Massachusetts | 26 |
But DON'T CALL ME AN Xer or A SLACKER or ANYTHING LIKE THAT!
Posted by Kali on November 11, 1996 at 03:13:21:
£ £ I know how you feel. Being young and marriageable doesn't have to be a liability, if you're meeting the right men. Unfortunately, I'm more Emma than Elizabeth! But then again, Emma didn't make out too shabbily, either.
£ £ - K
£
£ _______
£ G'day Kali,
£
£ Well I thought I'd be a Mr Bingley type when I was younger, but I grew up with the make-up of a Mr Darcy but the looks and now jaundiced outlook of Mr Bennet. Perhaps that's due to my father's early death and being surrounded by mother and sisters, particularly vehemently feminist ones. Oh well that's all to the good now. At least I didn't have a Lydia for a sister, or a Mrs Bennet for a mother. Phew!!!
_______
Life is a trial for both men and women, especially when one's family life is less than perfect and the world is breathing down your neck with pressure and criticism re: marriage, ambition, whatever. I've sort of passed on marriage for now, a la Emma, becuase I have impossibly high standards and don't feel a particular need to get hitched (plus, it's a lot more fun to set up my friends!). Many men accuse people with my outlook of elitism and unrealistic expectations. Ian, and all the other guys out there, would you say that men suffer from women's impossible expectations? Do women beat the spirit out of some guys?
Just curious about your views,
K
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Posted by Kali on November 11, 1996 at 03:43:03:
£ £ Does anyone agree with me that Susannah Harker (Jane) was just a bit to homely for her role. I actually thought Jennifer was the more attractive of the two. Or would Susannah be beautiful in a classic, 18th century fashion? I also think that Bingley could have been more attractive.
£
£ _______
£ No.
£ Jane would have been regarded as more of a beauty in her day with her fulsome figure. It's only our modern views that distort our perceptions into thinking only thinner females are beautiful.
£ Bingley's nature and looks probably befitted his status as a gentleman and therefore he would have been regarded as a good catch. Darcy the more complex of the two was presumed too proud (although his shyness overcame any affability) and in many pictures in older versions of P&P he is portrayed on the podgy side.
_______
But Susannah Harker certainly wasn't as plump as Jane ought to have been!
By any standards, however, I thought SH was very pretty - cow-eyed and all (for all those mythology threaders, she would be considered of the "oxen-eyed Hera" school of beauty). JE seemed to have more of a spunky, sweet kind of beauty.
- K
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Posted by Kali on November 11, 1996 at 03:48:28:
£ £ As a dressage rider myself, I think I can guess that Colin Firth has had some experience horseback. He rides first with seat and leg, you can actually see him put too much leg on the gray as he comes up the hill, the horse dodges his leg a bit. The gallop (where C B-C looks like he'll fall off any moment) shows that Firth seems pretty comfortable astride.
£
£ _______
£ Firth has had to ride in at least three of his films: Valmont, The Advocate, and P&P, so he has a bit of experience.
£ Ann
_______
Judging from the evidence Carol2 cites, it looks like that experience has made him competent. To be perfectly honest, I pay little attention to the equestrian aspect of P&P2, though I've ridden for years. Another excuse to go back and watch again, I suppose, though my old riding teachers and 4-H leaders would not approve of my previous laxity.
- K
Posted by Kali on November 11, 1996 at 04:02:05:
: We have two wedding ceremonies depicted in this week's tape.
: Lydia and Wickham's wedding is a very serious affair (sorry, poor choice of words!) a very serious ceremony. All are looking very severe- I would put Mr. Gardiner's ability to look disapproving and grave right up there with Darcy any time! None of them are at all pleased to be there except for Lydia, who bops into the church and down the aisle without a care in the world. But there is a moment in the ceremony where she does seem to be finally thinking about what's going on and she stops laughing and bites her lower lip.
: The double wedding also has people in attendance who wish to be anywhere else, most notably Miss Bingley who is most forlorn indeed, and Mr. Collins who looks as if he may be wondering if he will have a position when he returns to Hunsford!
: Is there anyone else who was a little disappointed that Darcy and Lizzy did not look at each other during the ceremony as Jane and Bingley did? They had too much respect for the dignity of the occaison, I suppose. But we are rewarded for our forbearance with plenty of wonderful smiles and looks and thigh pattings and kisses to send us happily on our way as we say goodby to Mr. and Mrs. Darcy (until tommorrow when our obsession will allow us to begin all over again!)
: Cheryl
___________________
I feel very sorry indeed for Miss Bingley. Without sounding too Janey, I must say that I can empathize with her situation. She tried so hard to ingratiate herself to Mr. Darcy, but he ignores her, and then marries someone else. True, she is a snob and rather harsh on others, but I'm sure she's not the worthless creature we'd all like to think she is.
She has been flatly rejected by a worthy man. How must that feel?
- K
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Posted by Sylvia on November 11, 1996 at 04:24:21:
£ £ I have compiled a list of names from current and past posts (if I have missed anyone - I'm so very sorry but could only go by the info at hand). I have included the age and location of each person if it was available to me. Anyone who would like to add info -- just enter a post and I will add you (or update the info).
£ £ [TABLE SNIPPED -- see the original posting]
£
£ _______
£ Rebecca 22, Toronto, Canada
USA - California
Posted by Janet on November 11, 1996 at 04:49:03:
£
£ _
£ : __________
£ : I scarcely ever catch her show, but I do see her and she is really very nice. Did you mean Kathie Lee or her mother loves P&P? We have never discussed it but I'll ask her about it now, thanks to you, Donna. It's not exactly the kind of thing you ask people about, as you never know if they're even going to know what you're talking about. If you watch her show, please tune in next week. She'll tell me when the tape will air so I'll let you know. It should be very sweet as in pink as in tutus. Wait till you see Regis in a pink tutu, too. Thanks, Donna.
£ : : Janet_________
£ Kathie Lee was telling Regis why she was so tired. How her mother made her stay up and watch it until her VCR ate the tape. I am sure she'll know what your talking about.
£ I get a big kick out of her and Regis their a great team.
£ Donna
£ P.S.My daughter took ballet and tap and loved being on stage,now she wants to be on Rosie.
____
Dear Donna, that sounds like the way she would describe it. I saw her Friday after a rehearsal for a concert of her own. In the taping of our daughters' ballet class she gets into the act, too, even though she never took ballet herself. Our tape will be shown this week on her show, and I hope you have a chance to see it. My daughter Christina has light brown hair in a long pony tail and is dressed in - what else - pink.
How old is your daughter now and how long has she danced? It's wonderful to see these girls enjoying themselves doing something beautiful. Does Rosie solicit for performers? This one is an inside job and I'm not familiar with the way those shows bring people in. It must be a competitive operation.
: Janet
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Posted by Janet on November 11, 1996 at 05:19:49:
£ Sorry about all of the space between the note and the table -- don't know why that is. Amy -- looking at the comments section can you see any reason for the gap?
£ Anne
____
Actually, I am not three and forty until February, so you can put me down as 42 for now. I am from Connecticut. Is anyone nearby?
: Janet
___
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Posted by Sylvia on November 11, 1996 at 05:32:47:
I feel very sorry indeed for Miss Bingley. Without sounding too Janey, I must say that I can empathize with her situation. She tried so hard to ingratiate herself to Mr. Darcy, but he ignores her, and then marries someone else. True, she is a snob and rather harsh on others, but I'm sure she's not the worthless creature we'd all like to think she is.
£ She has been flatly rejected by a worthy man. How must that feel?
£ - K
Speaking of Miss Bingley, she was also jilted at the altar by Charles (Hugh Grant) at 4 Weddings & a Funeral. His friends called her duck face there but I think she looks ok. Sorry I deviate from PP2. I can't help mentioning her here after watching her in another movie.
Sylvia
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Posted by Joan, too on November 11, 1996 at 05:36:12:
£ I have compiled a list of names from current and past posts (if I have missed anyone - I'm so very sorry but could only go by the info at hand). I have included the age and location of each person if it was available to me. Anyone who would like to add info -- just enter a post and I will add you (or update the info).
£ [TABLE SNIPPED -- see the original posting]
_______
Posted by Janet on November 11, 1996 at 05:46:30:
: : : : : : : Is this meant to allow that although one does not benefit from an ideal upbringing, one can grow up to overcome despite the constraints of society? This may have been a rather revolutionary concept in a society in which wealthy and powerful families were expected (and hoped) to rule all forever and ever. Indeed, there was a fall-out in P&P. Any thoughts or am I just expounding/reaching?: : : It is indeed interesting to speculate to what degree JA made this, her favorite character, the proponent of her own particular position in these matters. I, myself, would like to believe this to be the case.: : : Joan, too: : : : ___________________: : : : It seems that Jane Austen is very sympathetic re: human constraint. But how revolutionary is she? This is a question I've seen discussed elsewhere, and now you guys have me thinking about it again (I know this isn't quite what you guys were dealing with, but it relates so I'll go with it!). I believe that the merit of a novel rests on its ability to illuminate the universiality of the human condition, which Austen, and so many authors before and after her, have done well. I don't think her ideas re: understanding between humans and self-realization were so much revolutionary as progressive, and certainly they weren't new to literature or theory. She is very comfortable writing from within the normalcy of polite society, and her themes deal more with the complexity and irony of life in the community of man than with societal reengineering. To Austen, it seems that life in society can be ironic, frustrating, amusing, unfair, and wonderful, for both men and women of many walks of life. : : Her message, in my eyes, at least, is that human beings should do their best to understand others while trying to make for themselves the best existence possible. Austen seems to understand that life can be crappy no matter who you are, especially if you are intelligent: Parents can be dorks (The Bennets, Lady Catherine, Sir William L., etc.); So can the men who are interested in you (Mr. Collins, Wickham), and especially your boyfriend (Mr. Darcy); Some people can be real morons (Mrs. Bennet, etc.); Etc. These and other situations can be explored through the eyes of many of the characters, and not just the smart ones or the "favorites" (Darcy, Lizzy).: : The fact that P&P ends happily, with the main characters enlightened and generally content with life, seems to indicate that while Austen understood the problems living in society can create, she was generally optimistic about life in society. It is easy, especially is the blurry-line area of novels, to attribute specific intentions and beliefs to an author when no certain, specific message is intended. Literature provides a process of experimentation and exploration for the writer and the reader, which encourages insights but does not necessarily indicate the espousal of certain beliefs or theories. Austen is more commentator than instigator, which leads me to think that she is not the revolutionary that many people think she is (not that you guys do - but, again, I must say that your comments got me thinking about this question!). I'm of the "slice of life" school of literature, I suppose. : : - K: : _________: And so was JA. Her own metaphor for her writing was "two inches of ivory." She compacted a microcosm into her rather narrow slice of time and space. I have read that she really had no intention whatsoever of making any statement of any kind. It's just my own overzealous analysis I suppose. This may be one definition of a classic to seem more important than was intended. But then we do pick over it, don't we?: : Janet: ________________________The only way to truly know something is to analyze it to death. It's the experimental process! Exploration is a good thing, as Martha Stewart would say. - K
__________
Now that's an interesting introduction, Kali. I know you did not mean to compare them, but what two people would be further apart than JA and Martha Stewart? I can almost see how she would describe her as a character in one of her novels, can you? Come on, let's hear it. Parodies can be fun, too.
: Janet
P.S. I'm sorry I haven't really responded to your lengthy post. As usual, I agree with you and you make a very good stand for JA's ability to enliven her characters with believable personalities of their own. They almost make their own statements as they make their own way through the story. It is fun to read more into it once in awhile, and by the sign of this BB once is not enough and the list keeps growing.
_________
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Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on November 11, 1996 at 07:09:27:
: I'm going to have to reread the novel [Emma] now as I'd like to know if the line "... it's our imperfections that makes us a perfect couple (?)" is in the novel or was paraphrased in the recent film.
_______
No, not in that form (the phrase "perfect couple" doesn't sound very 19th century).
What Mr. Knightley tells Emma is this:
My interference was quite as likely to do harm as good.
It was very natural for you to say, what right has he to lecture me? --
and I am afraid very natural for you to feel that it was done in a disagreeable manner.
I do not believe I did you any good.
The good was all to myself, by making you an object of the tenderest affection to me.
I could not think about you so much without doating on you, faults and all; and by dint of fancying so many errors, have been in love with you ever since you were thirteen at least."
Link:
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Posted by Amy on November 11, 1996 at 07:51:01:
HC, I love this picture. Emma is seen not meeting his eyes, just as Lizzy cannot in the second proposal. Are you thinking of HTMLizing Emma for your page as you have for P&P? Who is the illustrator? What edition?
Amy
Posted by Aphrodite, again on November 11, 1996 at 08:02:21:
but I don't remember looking below his...waist...in any of the other scenes.
: ___________________
: A few instances of long pants (as far as I remember in less than a 6-hour reviewing): tan trousers at Hunsford when he & the Colonel came to call
___________________
As Hermes relayed to you mortals earlier, I (with Athena and Hera) honored Darcius with a visitation Sunday to ascertain his qualifications in looks. He did not seem surprised by our appearance, merely smiling pleasantly and enquiring whether "people on our set had been kind enough to provide adequate heat, given our negligible costumes"(?) When Hera haughtily informed him of our identities, he was all politeness (though, Athena noted later, there was that quizzical eyebrow lift as he bowed).
During the actual beauty contest (which I admit for form's sake we three goddesses pretended was about ourselves again, having given him the golden apple as judge), we paraded up and down his dressing room; Hera asked him to join us but he murmured he could admire our figures better from where he was seated. Athena remarked upon the wisdom of such a comment, but I put it down to vanity (I of all know a proud goodlooking man I see one!). He was diplomatic, though: he cut the apple in three and gave us each his equal vote. I liked that vastly better than Paris's decision, which though I won threw Olympus and Troy into hateful confusion that was very ill. He was also kind enough to lend us a VCR and his copy of P&P2 in his room to view as he left for a "film shoot." (?)
After Athena zapped the VCR to make it live, we watched the film (it was like being in Plato's cave, watching the fiery mirror reflecting the world outside). At the end of hours, we cast our vote: Darcius as Darcy looked best in long pants, particularly at Hunsford when sitting wordlessly across the room first staring at Lizzie. Hera compared his poise to Zeus right before he hurls a thunderbolt (?); Athena said his fine dark eyes were nearly as perfect as her own clear grey ones; and I privately considered him to be one of the handsomest men I have ever known, though aloud I only remarked trousers were aesthetically more cleanlined than a shorter length, allowing the eye to more naturally sweep up and down repeatedly without wearying. (My own venusian proclivity is a waist, but faces are interesting too.) And now you may all cough as much as you wish, but the smog of LA has driven us three back to Greece, where I may say we have carried that VCR and film so as to show Artemis what she's missing (and Ares and Hephaestus, in quite another way...)
___________________
Posted by Ian on November 11, 1996 at 08:10:44:
£ Life is a trial for both men and women, especially when one's family life is less than perfect and the world is breathing down your neck with pressure and criticism re: marriage, ambition, whatever. I've sort of passed on marriage for now, a la Emma, becuase I have impossibly high standards and don't feel a particular need to get hitched (plus, it's a lot more fun to set up my friends!). Many men accuse people with my outlook of elitism and unrealistic expectations. Ian, and all the other guys out there, would you say that men suffer from women's impossible expectations? Do women beat the spirit out of some guys?
£ Just curious about your views,
£ K
_______
I love my family for being the great source of inspiration and caring they have for me, as painful as many men of my age tend to be. I am in that void between being an ugly chauvinist pig and having a feminist view.
It's hard to get the balance right but when it comes down to it one just has to accept the way they are and if it's OK, to get on with life despite the limitations. Or if one doesn't like the way they are, then to try and do something about it, but in the end to accept it just the same.
Perhaps I'm being a little philosophical here (jaundiced?). It may be alright if we lived the days of JA again? No, life's much more interesting now where (hopefully) we can live, learn and work as equals. An impossible dream?
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