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Posted by Terese on November 10, 1996 at 18:47:35:
£ I've had troubles deleting the original post too - I hope that following up Donna's message works!
£ I'm turning 20 this Thursday.
£ Saman
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Happy B-day Saman!!
37 last July. Melbourne, Florida -Terese
Posted by Anne on November 10, 1996 at 18:48:12:
ood life?
£ Shouldn't we all (in theory), like Lizzy, marry only from love?
£ I can't see myself ever married to anyone else except a Mr Darcy. I don't want to think about any other possibilities (I will just feel more depressed...)
£ Adi
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£
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Adi -
I think what Candace is saying is -- become your own person first. Like yourself. Develop your own interests. If you notice, Lizzy was not looking for Darcy, he just happened into her life. Finding someone with the same likes, goals, etc. is the most important point and he may turn out to be a Bingley - but to you he will seem a Darcy.
;-) Anne
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Posted by Anne on November 10, 1996 at 18:50:19:
I can't image wanting to be married at 15. That was the last thing on my mind at 15.
£ What were we all thinking of at age 15.
£ Donna
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What is a scary thought is that Lydia will probably start having children right away. Just imagine the mother she will be. I think that Mrs. B will look like the spokesperson for Parenting magazine compared to Lydia.
Anne
Posted by Carol 2 on November 10, 1996 at 18:53:15:
£ £ I will preface this comment with a disclaimer that I do not ride and therefore may be way off base.
£ £ However, when Wickham is riding around and the sisters are talking, Lydia is commenting on the fact that 'her husband' is such a fine horseman and that Col. Foster said that he had as good a seat as anyone in the regiment. About that time Wickham rides by the girls -- does he look like a fine horseman to those of you in the know? He is leaning back and 'rolling' along which looks wrong to me - but I could be mistaken.
£ £ Anne
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£ I used to ride as a teenager, so know a little about it, and I think you're absolutely right, Anne. Wickham might be a tolerable rider (i.e., he doesn't fall off) but he doesn't seem to sit on the horse particularly well. I think this illustrates what Lydia says in the book, "He was her dear Wickham on every occasion; no one was to be put in competition with him. He did every thing best in the world ..."
£ On the subject of riding, I read in The Making of P&P that some of the actors had to learn to ride. I think that must have been Crispin Bonham-Carter who looked like he was hanging on for dear life in the opening scenes cantering across the field, and was bouncing around like a sack of potatoes while trotting to Longbourn in Tape 6.
£ Inko
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As a dressage rider myself, I think I can guess that Colin Firth has had some experience horseback. He rides first with seat and leg, you can actually see him put too much leg on the gray as he comes up the hill, the horse dodges his leg a bit. The gallop (where C B-C looks like he'll fall off any moment) shows that Firth seems pretty comfortable astride. "Wickham's" riding looks tolerable enough, I suppose :). By the way, those are pretty nice horses they used!
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Posted by Hilary on November 10, 1996 at 19:02:24:
£ I will preface this comment with a disclaimer that I do not ride and therefore may be way off base.
£ However, when Wickham is riding around and the sisters are talking, Lydia is commenting on the fact that 'her husband' is such a fine horseman and that Col. Foster said that he had as good a seat as anyone in the regiment. About that time Wickham rides by the girls -- does he look like a fine horseman to those of you in the know? He is leaning back and 'rolling' along which looks wrong to me - but I could be mistaken.
£ Anne
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I know nothing about riding either, but I fully expected Wickham to fall off at that point (just because of the conversation), and was quite disappointed that he didn't.
Hilary
Posted by Anna on November 10, 1996 at 19:08:13:
: Well, is there anyone who has watched this second proposal without immediately rewinding and watching it again? I love every minute of it and the only fault I can find with it is one that has been voiced many times here: it is too short. I long for the added dialogue that Jane gave us in the book. Very satisfying, indeed.
: I like how Lizzy and Darcy can hardly look at each other. They sneak glances here and there, but never look each other full in the face and at the same time until the "Dearest, lovliest Elizabeth" line, and then what love and longing is in that gaze! It is almost as if they are each afraid to look at the other, lest it break the spell of the moment. *sigh*
: Cheryl
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Oh, and also as they walk, just barely brushing against each others arms. I find this very sexy!
- Candace
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Me too!!! I get the impression that they are feeling a little shy of each other, which, to me, is exactly right, after finally sorting out their problems and moving into a whole new area of relating.
Does anyone else feel that Darcy in P&P2 comes across as somewhat shy, as well as arrogant, in the beginning? In the book he is much more vocal, and has more success in holding up his end of the exchanges with Lizzy - I think that Darcy in the book was probably shy as a child, but has grown out of it, although he will never be an extrovert. This change in the presentation of Darcy seems to be an unavoidable result of Andrew Davies' "lean scripts", as seen in this section were he has shrunk Darcy's fluent exposition of his love for Lizzy into a few short lines.
I still prefer the second proposal in P&P2 to P&P1, although when I first saw it I was expecting Lizzy to paraphase Jane Austen's narrators voice, as she did in P&P1. On reflection I think this version comes closer to Jane Austen's meaning.
The more I watch P&P2, the more I like the second proposal - it may soon become my favorite scene.
Anna
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Posted by Terese on November 10, 1996 at 19:25:07:
"You showed me how insufficient were all my pretensions to please a woman worthy of being pleased."
£ Inko
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My favorite line of the entire book. Sigh.
-Terese
Posted by Donna on November 10, 1996 at 19:48:55:
£ £ If anyone is interested there are pictures from Harper Bazarre that I have never seen before at:
£ £ Donna
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£ _______
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£ This is the second posting today having pictures that I can't access. There is a little broken picture in the post but no link.
£ Anne
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Sorry Anne, Friends of Firth wouldn't give up. go Amy link page and access it from there under pics.
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Posted by Anna on November 10, 1996 at 20:06:03:
£ £ What I don't understand if Mr.Darcy really cared at all about Lady C. wishes,because he never seemed intimated by her at all.He only visited her once a year out of some sense of duty.Lady C. had no hold on him financially that was a lie. It gave the viewer the wrong impression. I don't think I would have read the book if it was for that version{P&P}first.
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£ It is only speculation, but based on the evidence that Lady C did meddle after old Mr Darcy died, I bet she tried to pretend to herself and others including Darcy that she had a say in the disposition of the estate's income.
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I reckon she was trading on Darcy's respect for tradition and his sense loyalty to his family. It's interesting that in the text Lady C says 'since they [Fitzwilliam Darcy and Anne de Bourgh ]were in their cradles'. This would make Anne about 28 also. If Darcy had ever intended to marry her he could have done so long ago. I think Lady C's still expecting it shows the strength of her obsession - she's deluding herself.
Anna
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Posted by Amy on November 10, 1996 at 20:16:55:
I think Lady C's still expecting it shows the strength of her obsession - she's deluding herself.
£ Anna
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It is another example of how a character can get warped when everybody fawns and does full scrapes. Darcy was wise enough to pick up on Lizzy's rejection and see the meaning in it. I have known too many people like Lady C who will never see themselves -- it will always be somebody else's fault, no matter how many times she evokes the same unsatisfactory reaction from a person.
But we all delude ourselves. We all rationalize. Remember what Jeff Goldblum's character said about rationalizations in The Big Chill?
Amy
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Posted by Grace on November 10, 1996 at 20:34:49:
£ £ He expressed interest in this board in general - and wondered if I had yet worked up the nerve to post anything.
£ £ : : Grace
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£ Grace, do tell us more about this guy. Is he the kind who would be proud that you are a star here -- or ashamed?
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: Amy, may I ask to what these questions tend?......Are you politely trying to ascertain what type of man could possibly be interested in a woman like me?
Curious,Grace
(P.S. This is by no means the first time I have been addressed with questions of this sort. In fact, I am amazed by the intensity of interest in the subject from friends, family members and strangers alike.)
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Posted by Grace on November 10, 1996 at 20:55:16:
£ : : How kind of you to think of me. Lingerie definitely has appeal, but I think Candace might have a better feel for it. I daresay I might be tempted by Small Appliances....we could offer three models: The Bingley, The Wickham, and of course, the piece de resistance of the collection - The Darcy. Batteries will not be included.
£ :
£ : ___________________
£
£ ___________________
£ Grace, I'm overcome! Do you think they could include a sound chip that played, for example, a Beach Boy's tune, during use? I am so glad I thought to ask your opinion, because, although aware of some of your wide-ranging interests, I had no idea that they included experience with electric toothbrushes.
£ Hilary
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: Hilary, one must never underestimate the importance of good oral hygiene.
Delighted to be of service, Grace
Posted by Ann on November 10, 1996 at 21:08:44:
£ As a dressage rider myself, I think I can guess that Colin Firth has had some experience horseback. He rides first with seat and leg, you can actually see him put too much leg on the gray as he comes up the hill, the horse dodges his leg a bit. The gallop (where C B-C looks like he'll fall off any moment) shows that Firth seems pretty comfortable astride.
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Firth has had to ride in at least three of his films: Valmont, The Advocate, and P&P, so he has a bit of experience.
Ann
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Posted by Linda on November 10, 1996 at 21:09:37:
£ £ I have compiled a list of names from current and past posts (if I have missed anyone - I'm so very sorry but could only go by the info at hand). I have included the age and location of each person if it was available to me. Anyone who would like to add info -- just enter a post and I will add you (or update the info).
£ £ [TABLE SNIPPED -- see the original posting]
£
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£ Also for your list, I am in Birmingham, Al. and I am 18. --Sarah
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Linda, age 34, Cincinnati Ohio
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Posted by Hilary on November 10, 1996 at 21:16:49:
I'm with you. I don't want to agree with some of Conrad's ideas, but at the same time they do hit home -- in kind of a disturbing way. No?
Yes, this is definitely the way I feel.
But of course the dream is the product of that brain and its memories, just as a story and its characters are entirely within (at least some manner of) the author's control.
£ Amy
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This is a good analogy, and I agree with you and Eric. The argument about JA not being in control of her characters seems to me the easiest to refute, but it is also unfortunately, the one I care least about, if you understand?
The thing I like best about JA is that among all the thoroughly enjoyable irony, comedy, and all the sharp observations of the idiocy surrounding us, there is this gleam or thread of sanity, goodness, wisdom, and knowing what is right and striving for it, which wins out in the end. I know this puts me in the pitiably incurable idealist catagory, but there it is! And its an attack on that sense of hope that I find difficult. I guess I like the assumption that JA had a similar idealism. In one way, it doesn't matter too much if you can draw what you want out of a story, but then 'what becomes of the moral, if our comfort springs from a breach of promise....This will never do'
Hilary
PS Do you have any way of stopping the group getting larger, Amy, if its a problem?
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Posted by Ann on November 10, 1996 at 21:22:35:
: I reckon she was trading on Darcy's respect for tradition and his sense loyalty to his family. It's interesting that in the text Lady C says 'since they [Fitzwilliam Darcy and Anne de Bourgh ]were in their cradles'. This would make Anne about 28 also. If Darcy had ever intended to marry her he could have done so long ago. I think Lady C's still expecting it shows the strength of her obsession - she's deluding herself.
: Anna
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A while ago the Myst. H.C. pointed out that the line is: "While in their cradles, we planned the union..." Which taken literally means that the Ladies Anne and Catherine were themselves sitting in their childrens cradles scheming the match. Interesting imagery!
As for Lady Catherine's obsession, she had every reason to worry, especially if Anne was already in her late twenties. Anne was sickly, and therefore had little access to society. (And with such a mother, few young men were likely to be paying a call.) Anne, like Charlotte, is in the age of danger, that is to say nearing the point of old-maidenhood. With a sizeable estate and no one apparent to be second in line after Anne, Lady C. would be concerned for the fate of the De Bourgh family estate and for her family's future.
Ann
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Posted by Ann on November 10, 1996 at 21:26:28:
: or when they both write, Darcy to Lady C and Lizzy to Mrs Gardiner. The closeness they share.
: Johanne
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I also like Mr. Bennet's letter to Mr. Collins
Ann
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Posted by Joan, too on November 10, 1996 at 21:48:44:
£ £ : Carl Davis reported having a very good time immitating the varing piano playing abilities of those called upon to perform on the fortepiano.
£ £ : Joan, too
£ £ ___________________ It's *pianoforte* not fortepiano.
£ _______
£ IF alert! Pray don't assume a lot of ignorance on the part of regular posters here. They may know something you have not heard about. Of course, all of us are full of ignorance in certain areas, but on the whole, I have observed that we regulars tend not to speak without information
Well, having only recently made the egregious blunder of referring to Canadians as members of the UK, I am certainly in no position to cast stones, but it would be advisable if it appears that information has been posted in error, to provide a reference to some substantiating resource along with the correction, that we may all improve our minds by extensive reading. :-)
I have also found in the past that this process can also spare one the embarrasment of posting misinformation when such research prior to posting has revealed that my own information has been in error! [I know, hard to believe, but true. ;-) ]
As one of our youngest posters, IF, I hope you will not be discouraged from posting in the future, but rather, encouraged to check your own information for accuracy when it appears to differ from information put forward by others.
Joan, too
Posted by Joan, too on November 10, 1996 at 21:59:41:
£
£ : ___________________
£ : Carl Davis reported having a very good time immitating the varing piano playing abilities of those called upon to perform on the fortepiano.
£ : Joan, too
£
£ ___________________
£
£ According to the credits at the end of the first video, the pianoforte playing as done by someone other than Carl Davis. I had never gone through all of the credits before so had not seen that. Was watching volume 1 from A&E classroom when I noticed the other name.
£ Anne
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I went through this thought process, as well, but finally figured out (I think) that Melvin Tan played the fortepiano in the "incidental" music composed by Davis, while Davis played the pieces supposedly performed on camera by the characters as a part of the "action". The CD also contains a number of cuts labeled "piano summary" (also played by Tan) which seem to be "reader's Digest" piano versions of the main Davis themes not included in full on the CD.
Joan, too
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Posted by Donna on November 10, 1996 at 22:04:16:
£ £ £ What I don't understand if Mr.Darcy really cared at all about Lady C. wishes,because he never seemed intimated by her at all.He only visited her once a year out of some sense of duty.Lady C. had no hold on him financially that was a lie. It gave the viewer the wrong impression. I don't think I would have read the book if it was for that version{P&P}first.
£ £ _______
£ £ It is only speculation, but based on the evidence that Lady C did meddle after old Mr Darcy died, I bet she tried to pretend to herself and others including Darcy that she had a say in the disposition of the estate's income.
£
£ _______
£ I reckon she was trading on Darcy's respect for tradition and his sense loyalty to his family. It's interesting that in the text Lady C says 'since they [Fitzwilliam Darcy and Anne de Bourgh ]were in their cradles'. This would make Anne about 28 also. If Darcy had ever intended to marry her he could have done so long ago. I think Lady C's still expecting it shows the strength of her obsession - she's deluding herself.
£ Anna
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I reckon she also was trading on Lizzie sense of loyality to her which I think was never earned. Since she had her visit at Rosing was enough for Lizzie to be so commited{to Lady C}. She was always pushing people around and telling them how they should feel.
Donna
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