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Posted by Candace on November 08, 1996 at 22:17:37:
: : : : I'm coming late to this discussion, but I see the making of a merchandising dynasty here.....and there's still time to get out a glossy catalogue by Thanksgiving (a la Neiman Marcus): The Pemberley Collection - Catering to Polished Societies Everywhere.
: : : We have the necessary talent - Eric could manage our Hurst line of wines and spirits, Hilary's got bedding and fine linens planned out, Cheryl(if I remember correctly)has expertise with leather volumes....Think of the possibilities!
: : : Grace
: :
: : ___________________
: : But Grace, ever modest, you've forgotten yourself! Which of your many talents are you going to offer? Spruiker? (maybe a little too bargain basement-ish for marketing this refined collection, though). Lingerie? Accessories? Ship fittings? Choreographer for Marketing? Lyricist? Please let us know.
: : Hilary
: : How kind of you to think of me. Lingerie definitely has appeal, but I think Candace might have a better feel for it. I daresay I might be tempted by Small Appliances....we could offer three models: The Bingley, The Wickham, and of course, the piece de resistance of the collection - The Darcy. Batteries will not be included.
:
: ___________________
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ROTFLOL!!! And maybe the "Mr. Collins" for those on a small budget?
- Candace
PS actually I did once work at a Lingerie store. Uncanny isn't it?
Posted by Linda, too on November 08, 1996 at 22:30:54:
: : I believe that it's largely a matter of copyright; someone must pay the royalties. Our networks do not go to them, but many of our series are licensed to them, as many of theirs are licensed to us, especially on PBS and A&E. In Canada, I hear, they do get more direct from BBC, but then they are part of the UK.
: : Joan, too
:
: ___________________
: I don't think it is exactly a matter of licensing. A&E and WGBH are both co-producers, that is, they finance films in PRE-production, not when they are completed. If you ever watch credits, look toward the end for a title like "producer for WGBH," etc. In return for their financing, these American co-producers receive first-run exclusive rights to airing the property in the states, and possibly distribution; all depending on specifics of contract.
: The American broadcast system is locked tight. There is absolutely no way BBC would be able to launch a network here -- but I believe a recent contract was signed to produce more material to funnel directly into the states. I wish I could comment more but I do not remember the specifics.
: Cordially,
: Raphael
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The latest I read in the "trades" (Electronic Media magazine) is that the BBC has signed a development deal with the Discovery Channel. Apparently it caught A&E off guard, in light of the success of P&P2.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Mich on November 08, 1996 at 22:35:20:
: : Hi Everyone --
: : Kali, Mich, and I have made plans to meet for Tea in San Francisco on Saturday, December 21, 1996.
: : We would be most happy if any of you would also like to join us. Please RSVP to my E-mail by
: : December 1st.
: : Hope to hear from you,
: : Candace
:
: ___________________
: Ladies, I am so envious! I do live right next door (Nevada) and were not December the busiest time for musicians, I would be sorely tempted to time my annual pilgrimage to SF to join you. You must let us know the dinner went, or better yet, someone bring a laptop and report to us live, from the scene.
: Cheryl
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It a deal, I'll bring mine if there is a phone line we'll be on line.
Let us know when you plan to come this way. we can always do it again.
Mich
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on November 08, 1996 at 23:00:15:
: A friend of mine from George Washington University is taking a literature course on "Mothers of the Novel." The novel which they are currently reading is entitled Evelina by Frances Burney. She has found remarkable similarities between this novel and Pride and Prejudice. (She never actually read P&P, but she was one of the many victims of my tape-pushing days.)
: Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here has read Evelina and if you found a simialrity. I can't wait to read it and find out for myself.
: Stefanie :)
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I don't see all that much similarity (even though Jane Austen was something of a Burney fan), aside from the obvious similarity of having a female protagonist who is the main point-of-view character.
Don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm, but once you've reas Evelina, you'll probably know why Austen is read more nowadays.
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Posted by Anne on November 08, 1996 at 23:02:20:
: Lizzie is always modest about her piano playing; however, Darcy thinks she plays and sings like an angel & apparently haas shared this view with Georgiana & others. Did Darcy "grossly exaggerate" her talent (since he was under her spell)? I don't have a trained ear, so I can't tell if her playing is that good. I know some of you are musical, what do you think?
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I don't have a trained ear either but I thought Lizzy in P&P1 had a better voice. Anyone else with a thought?
Anne
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Posted by Ayelet on November 08, 1996 at 23:08:11:
: Lizzie is always modest about her piano playing; however, Darcy thinks she plays and sings like an angel & apparently haas shared this view with Georgiana & others. Did Darcy "grossly exaggerate" her talent (since he was under her spell)? I don't have a trained ear, so I can't tell if her playing is that good. I know some of you are musical, what do you think?
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I think that's the point, becouse if you are asking me (I don't have a trained ear, but I have an opinion) in Rosings, when he first heard her playing, she played slowly and awful, she got better in Pemberly, but I think his reson to like her music was Certinly his love to her.
Any other opinions?
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Posted by Ann on November 08, 1996 at 23:08:13:
: The latest I read in the "trades" (Electronic Media magazine) is that the BBC has signed a development deal with the Discovery Channel. Apparently it caught A&E off guard, in light of the success of P&P2.
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The Discovery Channel doesn't do drama though, just documentaries, so the door is still open to A&E/BBC dramatic productions.
Ann
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Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on November 08, 1996 at 23:15:39:
: : : : : Amy and I were going for a Regency look. What shall we term this theme you and Hilary suggest (wool muffs and shearing shears)? The Daggency look?
: : : : Either way, I think Henry gets to do the Robert Palmer part!
: : : : Grace
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: : : Maybe the Anthrax look. I don't want to put Henry's nose out of joint, but I thought CF would get that part?
: : : Hilary
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: : : Colin in the part? Well......if you insist.
: : Grace
: : (Tell his agent the chorus will be in the buff, with muffs - I'm sure he'll take the gig.)
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: No No No - we can *not* perform for strangers. It MUST be Henry and only Henry! I for one would like to say that in the buff with a muff is probably the *only* way I could get him to watch me sing and dance!! I do not wish to excite your anticipation of my singing skills...
: What shall we have the Mys. HC wear???
: Katherine
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I'm quite pleased you preferred me to Colin Firth. Now if only the women who actually meet me in person would agree ;-)
P.S. It is all me today. "Myssterious" and "Lydia/Lizzy" were my own fault, but linking to another posting from a subject heading of mine is the server's fault.
Posted by Ayelet on November 08, 1996 at 23:21:03:
: : : I've just seen the 'missing minutes-' the extra scenes which are on the tapes but were not broadcast on TV
: : ___________________
: : Hi!
: : Oh, where do you get those cassets? where?
:
: ___________________
: Your casettes might not have any minutes missing - depending on how you got them. If they were recorded from A&E cable channel's prime time broadcasts, there are scenes that were cut out to make room for more commercials. If your casettes were purchased, then they will already be complete. Or if they were recorded from a BBC broadcast. How did you get your tapes?
: Joan, too
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How I got the tapes? I live in Israel, and they putted it on channel 1, where there are no commercials, but I'm afraid they still have left those minutes cut off.
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Posted by Donna on November 08, 1996 at 23:27:48:
: : Lizzie is always modest about her piano playing; however, Darcy thinks she plays and sings like an angel & apparently haas shared this view with Georgiana & others. Did Darcy "grossly exaggerate" her talent (since he was under her spell)? I don't have a trained ear, so I can't tell if her playing is that good. I know some of you are musical, what do you think?
:
: ___________________
:
: I don't have a trained ear either but I thought Lizzy in P&P1 had a better voice. Anyone else with a thought?
: Anne
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She didn't play she just sang. It wasn't grossly exaggerated but just a little. It wasn't awful but lets put it this way she can sing better then some and worse then others.
Lizzie was singing opera but the way she sang it sounded more like a little ditty. She also sang it in English which makes a big difference.
I can't remember if it was Greer Garson voice.
Donna
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Posted by Anne on November 08, 1996 at 23:28:24:
Later we see him at Bingley's home in a flashback peering over the balcony at Jane as she leaves the house. In the book, he can get away with this technically because he says he has not "met" her, but in PP2, he says no to having "seen" her. I always felt Darcy was too honourable to lie outright, so is this just a slip-up in the script or an attempt to portray him as slightly less than perfect or something else? Any opinions out there? Thanks, genie
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Lizzy was imagining this as she read the letter. Bingley was actually staying at Darcy's house in London (Bingley doesn't have a house in London). Miss Bingley was staying at the Hurst's house - which is where Jane called.
Anne
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Posted by Ann on November 08, 1996 at 23:28:32:
: : Lizzie is always modest about her piano playing; however, Darcy thinks she plays and sings like an angel & apparently haas shared this view with Georgiana & others. Did Darcy "grossly exaggerate" her talent (since he was under her spell)? I don't have a trained ear, so I can't tell if her playing is that good. I know some of you are musical, what do you think?
:
: ___________________
: I think that's the point, becouse if you are asking me (I don't have a trained ear, but I have an opinion) in Rosings, when he first heard her playing, she played slowly and awful, she got better in Pemberly, but I think his reson to like her music was Certinly his love to her.
: Any other opinions?
___________________
There is some difference between P&P2 and Austen on this point. In the novel the dialogue between Lizzy and Georgiana when they discuss Lizzy's talent does not exist; this is Davies' invention. I can't remember if Darcy made more than one comment on Lizzy's talent, but one he did make was: "No one admitted to the privilege of hearing you can think anything wanting." In the novel he never says that he had rarely heard anything which gave him more pleasure.
Ann
Posted by Donna on November 08, 1996 at 23:33:19:
: Later we see him at Bingley's home in a flashback peering over the balcony at Jane as she leaves the house. In the book, he can get away with this technically because he says he has not "met" her, but in PP2, he says no to having "seen" her. I always felt Darcy was too honourable to lie outright, so is this just a slip-up in the script or an attempt to portray him as slightly less than perfect or something else? Any opinions out there? Thanks, genie
:
: ___________________
:
: Lizzy was imagining this as she read the letter. Bingley was actually staying at Darcy's house in London (Bingley doesn't have a house in London). Miss Bingley was staying at the Hurst's house - which is where Jane called.
: Anne
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Where did his other family members live.
Donna
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Posted by Anne on November 08, 1996 at 23:44:02:
: Remember the Netherfield Ball? Silly question. Darcy wore knee-legnth pants and white stockings. Who prefers this get-up to the long black trousers he wore in other scenes? Please e-mail me at <RYoudelman@aol.com> I wil post the results of this survey.
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Prefer the longer pants -- he looks especially appealing when watching Lizzy and the Gardiners leave after the music evening at Pemberley.
Anne
Posted by Candace on November 08, 1996 at 23:58:11:
: : Hi Everyone --
: : Kali, Mich, and I have made plans to meet for Tea in San Francisco on Saturday, December 21, 1996.
: : We would be most happy if any of you would also like to join us. Please RSVP to my E-mail by
: : December 1st.
: : Hope to hear from you,
: : Candace
:
: ___________________
: Ladies, I am so envious! I do live right next door (Nevada) and were not December the busiest time for musicians, I would be sorely tempted to time my annual pilgrimage to SF to join you. You must let us know the dinner went, or better yet, someone bring a laptop and report to us live, from the scene.
: Cheryl
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Cheryl,
Please do tell us when you will be next in SF. We can certainly do this again. I will always take every opportunity to enjoy myself. By the way, where in Nevada are you? I live in Sacramento, so Tahoe is the same distance as SF for me.
- Candace
Posted by Anne on November 09, 1996 at 00:07:04:
: ___________________
: Okay, That does it. I can't stand it anymore. I will finally have some time of my own this weekend and I am going to do a poll on the age of posters here. This bunching up around the 38-45 region is too suspicious. What can it mean?
:
: Amy
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Not yet six and forty (next March). As you get older you appreciate the finer things in life more.
Anne
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Posted by Another Anne on November 09, 1996 at 00:33:22:
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:
: Anne and Amy, I feel EXACTLY as you do. CF as Darcy is a beautifully-captured moment in time. It is also art, and not reality. It's Darcy we like and not Firth, though we appreciate his portrayal.
: - K
One of the reasons that books made into films so often fail, for me, is because I had put a face, and voice and personality to the character, and if they are different in the film, something is wrong. If one sees a film first, and then reads the book, you are more or less forced to 'see' the characters from the film. In P&P2, Lizzie and Darcy are even better that I imagined them. They have not destroyed anything, rather, they have brought the book to life.
Anne
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Posted by Hilary on November 09, 1996 at 00:33:39:
I recently picked up a very cheap version of P&P. It is a paperback Everyman, 1996. As an introduction it has an article by Peter Conrad, which is very thought provoking. I'm wondering if anyone else has read it.
It is quite long, so I can't do it justice here. But some of the points it makes are:
* 'The ironist's peculiar occupational hazard is to be taken at his word, and JA has suffered the same trap: critics have taken her at her word.'
* 'P&P is not so artlessly effervescent as JA pretends. Its light, bright and sparkling high spirits are either, as in Lydia's case, a reckless volatility indifferent to the consequences of its actions, or, as in the different cases of Elizabeth and her father, an ironic discipline, forcing oneself to laugh at a fate which if taken seriously would be ruinously depressing.'
* 'P&P is not only ironic in its procedures and assumptions: it is also about irony, the instrument by which Elizabeth separates herself from a shaming family, asserts her own claims against an overbearing society, and tests emotion without betraying herself into commitment to them. Irony is Elizabeth's stratagem for survival. This is the secret of the perfect self-sufficiency of P&P: irony is both form and content, and each is an image of the other'.
* 'Irony is the incognito of the moralist' ('The diplomatic efficacy of irony is that it judges deftly and discreetly, without needing to disrupt the external exchange of insincere compliments. It kills cleanly, leaving no messy trace' - hence all that stuff about non-confrontation last week) and also the amoralist. It is also politically 'the covertly insolent language of the underdog' (like E with Lady C) ....'Emotionally, irony saves E from her own dangerously vulnerable and errant feelings: a means of assault against others, it is a means of control in her case.'
* 'Irony, however, has its frustrations and liabilities' and 'the ironist often irritates and disconcerts himself rather than his victim' (Miss Bingley is a great example). Conrad then goes on to talk at length about JA also falling into this trap, and being unable to control her characters. 'JA's creativity is a reflex not of generosity but of baffled, impotent ill-will'...'she must write about characters she dispises but cannot dispose of. Irony is her mode of surrender, the language of her aquiescence...it is the dialect of defeat.'...'JA is a novelist who loves to hate the characters and the form she employs. Her creative urge is malicious, not sentimentaly forbearing'.. 'her attitude to the navel is similar. It is a vengeful retreat from the distress and contagion of society'
* 'The novel's most startling paradox is its final justification of the pride and prejudice it offers initially to chasten. These strategic faults of character come to seem the necessary weapons of intellegence in a vacuus, undiscriminating world.'..' D and Enjoy a special exemption, not because they are morally superior to their relatives but because they are more intelligently devious'...'They discover that they love one another because they so relish hating one another. The novelty of rejection (both) startles them into intimacy ...once they have resigned themselves to loving they continue to enjoy the appearance of hating.... Irony is the incognito of affection which ,lacking the confidence for open avowal, camouflages itself as a doting malice. This is the method Darcy and E devise for loving one another, and it is also the way JA creates her fictional world.'
My first impulse was to reject all this, (especially I can't take such a bleak view of D and E's relationship) but it's not as easy to do as I thought. There seems to be a lot of truth in it. What do you think?
Hilary
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Posted by Another Anne on November 09, 1996 at 00:47:13:
:Unfortunately you lucky folk in the Northern Hemisphere seem to get most films and TV series at least six months in advance of us "down here"
Yes, and I don't know about you, but unless we spend vast amounts on satelite dishes and subscriptions, we only have four television stations here, and I wouldn't know where to begin to buy the set of videos, or anything about the 'Making of..." We have all sorts of exchange control regulations, so sending for it from overseas seems to me to be fraught with difficulty, not to mention extremely expensive.
Another Anne
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Posted by DonnaT on November 09, 1996 at 01:18:46:
: It is a very thought-provoking scene and I would love to learn of other takes on it. Louise
: :
: : I admit it, I'm not pool-knowledgable. What is the significance of the red ball. Someone on this BB said it said it all "but not to me". Help .....
:
: ___________________
: I believe he was playing billiards, not pool. There are only three balls and I think the red ball is the one that's NOT meant to go into the pocket (but I may be all wrong in that). If I'm right, I think it shows how much Lizzie unsettles and unnerves him - something he's not even willing to admit himself at that point.
: Inko
_
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Inko, Thank you, I thought it must be something like that.I was vext. . Thanks Donna T
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