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Posted by Lyn on November 07, 1996 at 17:25:39:
Having watched my tapes for about 600 times, totally focused on
the front action, I recently changed my viewing habit and started
to watch the background action. My admiration for Mary grew in
leaps and bounds! The look on her face when they were saying
goodbye to Lydia and Wickham, tells us just how she feels about
both of them! Also in the "making of" book it was mentioned that
Lydia and Kitty had to learn all the dances as they danced them
all, but while playing the tape in slow motion, I saw them
standing on the sideline during the Lizzie/Darcy dance. Try
watching the wedding scence in slow motion and watch the crowd.
Did anyone notice Georgiana throwing rose petals at Lizzie - a
couple of them stuck to her chest. Great fun.
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 17:30:12:
:
: : Wonderful idea.
: : I think we all know which picture would be used the most.
: : I liked the one Amy used "I would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours" or something like that.
: : Mich
:
: __________
: On a pair of suspenders? Sorry.
: : Janet
: _________
___________________
That was a good one, Janet!
- K
Posted by Catie on November 07, 1996 at 17:36:25:
First time writing in:
Thanks for the notice regarding the A&E classroom showing of Pride & Prejudice.
I lent my tape to a friend a couple of months ago and haven't been able to watch
P&P2 since. So I set my VCR for Wednesday morning and left for a business trip
to Panama.
I was surprised to find that the hotel I stayed at had A&E. I was able to watch the
first hour on Wednesday before my business meeting. It was like being with old
friends in a foreign country.
This website's great! Keep up the good work, Amy!
Catie
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 17:36:45:
: : : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : : No, but I might eat the cat.
: : : : : : : : : - K
: : : : : : : : ___________________
: : : : : : : :
: : : : : : : : Cute. You must not be as compulsive as some of us -- about this anyway. I suppose you will have to be a little compulsive in other positive ways to succeed in law school. You are going to write one great brief, Kali.
: : : : : : : : Amy
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : ___________________
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : Thanks! Actually, if left to my own devices, I would probably be exhibiting ultra-compulsive behaviour about the tapings at this point. Right now, honors thesis is forcing me to be compulsive about Upton Sinclair, the '34 CA gubernatorial race, and ag. laborism during the depression (borrrring). Otherwise, it would be P&P only - my first love!
: : : : : : : - K
: : : : : : : PS - Don't tell my cats about the above - please?!
: : : : : :
: : : : : : _________
: : : : : : Kali, are we back to cats again or is this just another obsession? (I finally noticed your post on yet another thread about the sly one.)
: : : : : : : Janet
: : : : : : __________
: : : : :
: : : : : ___________________
: : : : :
: : : : : Jane, Janet, Janet. Hee hee. I'm pretty sly myself! Yes, I love cats.
: : : : : - K
: : : :
: : : : _________
: : : : Kali, Kali, Kat. Sly you are, and you keep on your toes, too. How do you do it - while studying law? I am impressed indeed.
: : : : : Janet
: : : P.S. I don't really sound like Jane, do I? Agreed, she was sweet, but...
: : : : __________
: : :
: : : ___________________
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : No, you have a sharp, witty edge which Jane lacked. But that doesn't mean that you aren't as nice as Jane. As I told Tommye above, I'm not in law school yet - I'm still a senior at Berkeley. I'm applying to law school right now. I'll keep you posted as the decisions come in. THanks for the encouragement!
: : - K : )
:
: __________
: Kali, I wish you all the best. Please do keep us 'posted.' The law could use a bit of humanity, wit and charm which you clearly possess.
: Thanks for the reassurance re: Jane. While she may have been held up as a standard for all to follow, we came to see how she fell short in a few areas. Do you think that is yet another of the balloons burst in P&P? In a way, the same was true of many characters who on the surface might be considered by society to be upstanding denizens worthy of admiration - including Lady C., the Bingley sisters (and Bingley), the Bennets, Charlotte and the Lucases, and (heaven forbid) Mr. Collins in his capacity as a clergy. They were all shown to be (surprise?) less than perfect in some way despite expectations. Then Lizzy and Darcy who began as ill-favored by some, turned out to be the stars? Just another thought...
: : Janet
: _________
___________________
THanks again for the kind wishes. As far as your theory, I agree. I think everyone's got their problems, their crosses to bear, etc., and it's important to realize that.
- K
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 17:40:48:
: : LOL! I was actually wandering down another track: wondering if you would all think me a real (counter)pain if I asked Kali if she had instead meant the Bed Thpread. But if you're throwing punches around I'll keep quiet.
: : Hilary
:
: ___________________
:
: :Hilary,
: Cheryl may have beaten us to the punch, but you have scored a knockout. The point thpread goes to you.
: We bow to the Daginator, Grace
___________________
Actually, I hadn't thought of that. Hilary is a genius, and my mind remains in the gutter on this thread.
- K
Posted by Inko on November 07, 1996 at 17:41:39:
: Too old? I have two words for those who say that: ROGER MOORE.
: While he wasn't my favorite Bond (I prefer Sean Connery, the original), Dalton certainly fits the character's physical descriptions in the Ian Fleming novels. I loved the novels, and even though they are especially irrelevant to this BB in particular, has anyone else enjoyed them? The films are lots of fun, but they are only chopped-up, filled in, and transfigured versions of the books. Some plotlines cross over into other stories. My biggest pet peave is that the first novel, _Casino Royale_, was never made into a film, while _Dr. No_ was. Now, everyone automatically assumes that _Dr. No_ was the first, and so ignore _CR_which is incredibly exciting!).
: - K
___________________
Kali, "Casino Royale" WAS made into a movie - but after the first or second Bond film. It was made as a spoof of them and starred Peter Sellars and David Niven. I'm not a Bond fan myself, but my husband thinks CR is one of the best ones ever made.
Inko
Follow Ups:
Posted by Mari on November 07, 1996 at 17:48:29:
Just ran across this, had me LOL. We could add our own programs and merchandising links, I'm sure.
Mari
Link:
Posted by Zimei on November 07, 1996 at 18:00:48:
Joan too, I have not had my last word yet, will have to get back to you probably next week since I'll be out of town for a few days. Meanwhile, I would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours.
so stay tuned...
Zimei
Posted by Hilary on November 07, 1996 at 18:03:23:
: You guys are all such fun. Every one of you. Thanks for your company.
: Amy
___________________
Indeed, the feeling is mutual! Its a long time since I had a reason to get up at six every morning , bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, and without an alarm. And my son was laughing at me last night because I was going round with a grin on my face for no reason that he could see. (BTW his other nickname for me is Evil Mom Lady, after Calvin And Hobbes).
Its also good to know that this bit of skirmishing at the bottom of the posts isn't being taken amiss.
The anthrax posts had me speechless. But on revealing my new title to my husband, Michael, this morning, (I told him about the daggy thread, but not at length with all the ins and outs) he thought I should pass on the chorus of an Australian folk song, 'The Limejuice Tub'. It does seem appropriately rural, and could come in useful as an alternative to the Henry Song, if we found ouselves having to earn our keep.
Here goes (imagine spadex pelisses and shearing clippers):
Here we are in New South Wales,
Shearing sheep as big as whales,
With leather necks and daggy tails,
And fleece as tough as rusty nails.
Fondly, Hilary
PS. promise I will get back to P@P
Posted by Zimei on November 07, 1996 at 18:11:06:
Colin as Geoffrey Clifton in The English Patient. Can't wait to see the movie.
Enjoy!
Zimei
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 18:16:45:
: : : : : To say that Lizzy is a "sellout" or a father-figure-worshipping Elektra is erroneous and unfair. "Selling out" is a modern feminist notion which has suffered in the inevitable fallout experienced when all "progressive" deconstructions are reconstructed for what they're actually worth. In other words, no philosophy can provide an answer for everyone's true happiness (big surprise, right?). Lots of women (and men!) I know realize that the stress and disorientation that they feel in their lives are a result of working too hard, planning too much, second-guessing too much, and neglecting familial and personal relationships. Worthy relationships with friends, family, and significant others are the matrix of happiness.
: : : : : What bugs me about the whole Freudian-pseudofeminist argument discussed above is that, applied to Lizzy, it really doesn't fit. How can she be considered a "sellout" when her marriage does not violate her own principles? As Janet stated, Lizzy DOES want to get married, but to the right guy. If she had accepted Mr. Collins, she would have violated her own principles and perhaps general notions of personal integrity. But she didn't - she rejected him ON THE SPOT when she knew she might never get another offer of marriage again. Lizzy might be considered a sellout according to modern principles of personal liberty and integrity not simply by the fact that she partakes of marriage, but because she chooses to marry at all in a society in which we view the institution of marriage as restrictive and the reasons behind marriage as invidious (i.e. economic and other security purposes). If this were the case, than all marriage, at least in that place and era, would be an unethical - if not immoral - propagation of sexism and fascism, which is ridiculous. It makes more sense to say that SOME marriages, then and now, violate modern notions of liberty, but then this would not apply to Lizzy as she marries for the right reasons (love, respect) instead of the wrong ones (goldbrickiness, naivite, foolishness). She is in control of her decision, and is not aspiring to marriage for her own material comfort nor for that of her family. What's more, how can we possibly obligate ancient women to modern notions of "principle"? Heck, even Mary Wollstonecraft spent most of her life mooning over pissy men.
: : : : : As far as the paternalism argument, specifically, I think the terminology re: marriage to a man more powerful, potent, strong, than any man she's known (i.e. her father) is misleading. Why shouldn't ELizabeth marry a strong man? Why should Mr. Darcy's strengths be a reason for her to reject him? True, Mr. Bennet's word choice regarding the type of man Lizzy would need to marry seem to fit with the paternalism argument - "better" than Lizzy is what he says - but I think the context of his terms suggests otherwise. After all, Mr. Darcy is older and a great deal more experienced in life than Elizabeth is. She is young, and after all, was quick to condemn him unfairly while he, despite his proud front, loved her from close to the beginning.
: : : : : Despite all of this, the two of them view eachother as equals - they learn from eachother, which sets the tone for their marriage. They demonstrate that they deserve each other (here we go again). Why shouldn't Elizabeth be allowed to marry someone who has proven that he deserves her, she being perhaps the most remarkable young woman in literature? Elizabeth deserves to be happy with the choices she makes. How can she be in violation of herself if she is happily married with someone she respects and who respects her? As far as Darcy being the Saviour and Elizabeth the saved, I disagree. Whoever said that it is Elizabeth who saves Darcy from his own darkish little existence is absolutely right. In fact, they save eachother!
: : : : : I'm a firm believer that marriage in E and D's situation is one in which two people are the complementary halves of a single positive force. Healthy marriage is a partnership, a state of happiness and fulfillment which transcends sexual politics and defies feminist deconstructionism and Freud's overactive imagination.
: : : : : Mr. Darcy can render me barefoot and pregnant any day,
: : : : : K
: : : : : P.S. Would you believe that I wrote this whole damn thing out once before, then Netscape crashed, and so I had to retype the freaking message again? I hope somebody reads this, for what it's worth! ;-}
: : : :
:
: ___________________
: I can't say I agree with everything you said - being male, I sometimes like the paternalist fascism of which my sex is so often accused these days ;-) Nevertheless, the conclusions are generally correct.
: I do have one question in these regards, however. Was Charlotte a "sell-out" then? Your argument above tends to suggest she was and I wonder if you intend that suggestion.
: Eric
___________________
No, in my opinion, Charlotte didn't sell out her principles either. She admits herself that she is not romantic nor does she expect much from marriage. She doesn't hate the idea of getting married, though. In fact, it's pretty obvious that Charlotte herself is the instigator of her marriage, which suggests that while societal expectations influence her actions, it is her desire to play the game that brings the marriage upon her. In other words, she's not a helpless victim of marraige, being carried away by some strong, wonderful man, as the theory brought up earlier suggests happens to Lizzy. In fact, she's a predatory woman, out to get Mr. Collins! She knows what she's in for. She may be a goldbrick, but I think the preexisting condition re: her view of marriage cancels out any negativity that being a goldbrick might bring upon her.
In my opinion, Charlotte is in a position to make the best out of a bad situation (she's on the verge of being an old maid, and Mr. Collins REALLY wants to get married). Certainly, I think her marriage isn't ideal, but she and Mr. Collins are both good people who are trying their best to make their way in the world. MR. C may be a fool, but he's not an evil B-----d, and so Charlotte maintains her individual identity and personal power in the marriage (she already has him out in the garden or locked inside his study to keep him busy and out of her hair). By modern standards, the marraige can be considered a product of the expectations and constraints of society on both Charlotte and Mr. C, and thereby illegitimate, but, as I said in my piece, I think that kind of argument holds water only when specific rights and principles are overridden by the requirements of the institution. After all, Charlotte didn't have to get married, at this point in her life, unless she really wanted to.
I think the problem most people have with marriage from this era in particular is that such marriages are products of familial and social pressure rather than maturely-deliberated decisions. Mrs. Hurst, Mr. Bennet, and others provide examples of people who made decisions without first deciding what they wanted from marriage, and second, without taking the time to get to know their intended partner.
I guess it's all personal accountability. Didn't mean to offend your male sensibilities. Actually, I wasn't attacking "male fascism," if it does indeed exist. I don't think Austen was, either - in fact, I think she illustrated quite nicely in P&P how society's perceptions (propagated by both mothers - think Mrs. Bennet and the Bennet Family Marriage Circus - and fathers, men and women) and perceptions of society can really bewilder both men and women.
- K
Posted by Leslie on November 07, 1996 at 18:26:26:
: : : : : : : : Kali, why do you want to go to law school? I'm a lawyer, so I'm interested in knowing what prospective law students think it will be like.
: : : : : : : : No, but I might eat the cat.
: : : : : : : : - K
: : : : : : : ___________________
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : Cute. You must not be as compulsive as some of us -- about this anyway. I suppose you will have to be a little compulsive in other positive ways to succeed in law school. You are going to write one great brief, Kali.
: : : : : : : Amy
: : : : : :
: : : : : : ___________________
: : : : : :
: : : : : : Thanks! Actually, if left to my own devices, I would probably be exhibiting ultra-compulsive behaviour about the tapings at this point. Right now, honors thesis is forcing me to be compulsive about Upton Sinclair, the '34 CA gubernatorial race, and ag. laborism during the depression (borrrring). Otherwise, it would be P&P only - my first love!
: : : : : : - K
: : : : : : PS - Don't tell my cats about the above - please?!
: : : : :
: : : : : _________
: : : : : Kali, are we back to cats again or is this just another obsession? (I finally noticed your post on yet another thread about the sly one.)
: : : : : : Janet
: : : : : __________
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : :
: : : : Jane, Janet, Janet. Hee hee. I'm pretty sly myself! Yes, I love cats.
: : : : - K
: : :
: : : _________
: : : Kali, Kali, Kat. Sly you are, and you keep on your toes, too. How do you do it - while studying law? I am impressed indeed.
: : : : Janet
: : P.S. I don't really sound like Jane, do I? Agreed, she was sweet, but...
: : : __________
: :
: : ___________________
:
: ___________________
:
: No, you have a sharp, witty edge which Jane lacked. But that doesn't mean that you aren't as nice as Jane. As I told Tommye above, I'm not in law school yet - I'm still a senior at Berkeley. I'm applying to law school right now. I'll keep you posted as the decisions come in. THanks for the encouragement!
: - K : )
___________________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 18:29:25:
: : Too old? I have two words for those who say that: ROGER MOORE.
: : While he wasn't my favorite Bond (I prefer Sean Connery, the original), Dalton certainly fits the character's physical descriptions in the Ian Fleming novels. I loved the novels, and even though they are especially irrelevant to this BB in particular, has anyone else enjoyed them? The films are lots of fun, but they are only chopped-up, filled in, and transfigured versions of the books. Some plotlines cross over into other stories. My biggest pet peave is that the first novel, _Casino Royale_, was never made into a film, while _Dr. No_ was. Now, everyone automatically assumes that _Dr. No_ was the first, and so ignore _CR_which is incredibly exciting!).
: : - K
:
: ___________________
: Kali, "Casino Royale" WAS made into a movie - but after the first or second Bond film. It was made as a spoof of them and starred Peter Sellars and David Niven. I'm not a Bond fan myself, but my husband thinks CR is one of the best ones ever made.
: Inko
___________________
If so, it wasn't released in the U.S. Either that, or it wasn't produced by the S/B team and so missed out on the fame of the other films. Either way, it isn't a Bond standard in American eyes. WHen was it made? THe only "unconventional" BOnd film I know of was _On Her Majesty's Secret Service," the first non-Connery which also saw bond married to Diana Rigg. THat was released in 1968.
I guess I'll have to go out and do some research!
Thanks!
- K
Follow Ups:
Posted by Zimei on November 07, 1996 at 18:40:46:
: : First of all, many thanks Annemiek!
: : Yes I'm always quite impressed with his humbleness. Colin Firth seems to possess the quatity of not taking himself too seriously. With all the super-sized egos going around Hollywood, this is quite refreshing indeed. In that Mirabella article, he said he originally refused the Darcy role because he didn't think he "phisically cut the mustard". The article then comments "Odd; many would say he slices, dices, and purees the mustard." :)
: : Zimei
:
: ___________________
: Thank you so much, Annemiek.
: Zimei, I agree with you - he doesn't take himself too seriously. I think he is too intelligent to fall into the trap of all that Hollywood hype. He's probably only out there because of his son.
: I also think he's too intelligent to ever want to be Prime Minister - though playing one might be an idea.
___________________
I remember somewhere I read in an article that Colin Firth alsways has this question around him, that "if he is a star or if he will be a star". I think the question should be more like "if he wants to be a star or not". But - whether he likes or not, he is a star now, and certainly the brightest one to us.
Zimei
Posted by kathleen on November 07, 1996 at 18:43:18:
E! News Daily show (11/7 6:30 p.m. EST, USA) had as their lead story the premiere of The English Patient -- no clips of CF, but he was one of the stars stopped on his way in to the theater. He only spoke a few words, but you may want to have your VCR's ready.
This show repeats at 9:30 p.m. EST, I believe.
Your humble servant.
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on November 07, 1996 at 18:54:01:
: E! News Daily show (11/7 6:30 p.m. EST, USA) had as their lead story the premiere of The English Patient -- no clips of CF, but he was one of the stars stopped on his way in to the theater. He only spoke a few words, but you may want to have your VCR's ready.
: This show repeats at 9:30 p.m. EST, I believe.
: Your humble servant.
: kathleen
___________________
Thanks Kathleen so very very much. I haven't seen any trailers,I don't have a plug-in to see them. He can't hide anymore.
Thanks again Donna
Posted by Anne on November 07, 1996 at 19:26:50:
:
: Hee hee. I like that!
: - K
___________________
Kali -
I love your 'hee hee's.
Anne :-)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on November 07, 1996 at 19:33:49:
:
: :Candace, it's a job we could handle.
: Grace
___________________
Oh Grace -- what a lead in. But I will resist.
We want to keep this PG-13.
Anne
Posted by Janet on November 07, 1996 at 19:35:01:
: : : Too old? I have two words for those who say that: ROGER MOORE.
: : : While he wasn't my favorite Bond (I prefer Sean Connery, the original), Dalton certainly fits the character's physical descriptions in the Ian Fleming novels. I loved the novels, and even though they are especially irrelevant to this BB in particular, has anyone else enjoyed them? The films are lots of fun, but they are only chopped-up, filled in, and transfigured versions of the books. Some plotlines cross over into other stories. My biggest pet peave is that the first novel, _Casino Royale_, was never made into a film, while _Dr. No_ was. Now, everyone automatically assumes that _Dr. No_ was the first, and so ignore _CR_which is incredibly exciting!).
: : : - K
: :
: : ___________________
: : Kali, "Casino Royale" WAS made into a movie - but after the first or second Bond film. It was made as a spoof of them and starred Peter Sellars and David Niven. I'm not a Bond fan myself, but my husband thinks CR is one of the best ones ever made.
: : Inko
:
: ___________________
:
: If so, it wasn't released in the U.S. Either that, or it wasn't produced by the S/B team and so missed out on the fame of the other films. Either way, it isn't a Bond standard in American eyes. WHen was it made? THe only "unconventional" BOnd film I know of was _On Her Majesty's Secret Service," the first non-Connery which also saw bond married to Diana Rigg. THat was released in 1968.
: I guess I'll have to go out and do some research!
: Thanks!
: - K
_________
Now that you mention Diana Rigg I have to interject. Does anyone out there remember (if you're old enough) the Avengers series about espionage in which she co-starred? I don't know what happened to her after that, but she was so right in that role which was one of the few from that era in which the female lead was actually equal to that of the male. In fact, I thought she was better than the rest of them, and it was one of the few shows for which I ever had any interest or respect. I realize that may not be a fair judgement since I don't watch any shows anymore except the likes of P&P. I would not have even known about it except that I was visiting my mother at the time and we were in need of some entertainment. Normally I do not turn to the TV for that.
: Janet__________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Carol 2 on November 07, 1996 at 19:38:51:
:
: Colin as Geoffrey Clifton in The English Patient. Can't wait to see the movie.
: Enjoy!
: Zimei
___________________
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