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Posted by Joan, too on November 07, 1996 at 15:25:40:
: Where does one see these scenes?
: Dina
___________________
In any tape other than one made from the A&E commercial-filled broadcast. If you have a tape from any other source (purchased 6-tape set, recorded from a non-north American broadcast, recorded from A&E's "Classroom" broadcasts) your tape does not have missing minutes. They "went missing" from A&E's prime time broadcasts to make room for more commercials.
Joan, too
Posted by Alicia on November 07, 1996 at 15:27:55:
: I will also love to have a P&P2 calendar to get me through
: 1997. What do you all think ?
: Zimei
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Is there a P&P2 calendar??? I wish there was indeed one!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on November 07, 1996 at 15:31:53:
: : Adeles mom's name was Celine Verone who was a french opera singer. He took in Adele when her mother died
: : Dina
:
: ___________________
: I think I was right the first time. Celine Varens may still have been alive. From Jane Eyre Chapter 15:
: Rochester: "Some years after I had broken with the mother, she abandond her child and ran away to Italy with a musician or singer."
: Ann
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Shes not dead, is there a possiblity for a squeal?
Donna
Posted by Eric on November 07, 1996 at 15:32:19:
: :
: : At the beginning of episode 1, Lizzy was chatting with Jane in
: : Jane's bedroom, she made the following remarks:
: : "If I could love a man who would love me enough to take
: : me for a mere 50 pounds a year, I should be well pleased
: : ... but such a man can hardly be sensible, you know I can
: : never love a man without his wits."
: : Zimei
:
: ___________________
: I took this as half in jest: A man who'd marry me with only 50 pounds a year must be dim-witted.. therefore I wouldn't want him ...therefore I'll never marry.
: The remark is witty, but Lizzy is also realistically assessing the difficulties of their situation and making a point: Men will have to marry the Bennet girls for love, because they don't have any money. And she would be flattered to be so loved (a foreshadowing of future events)..
: --Paula
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What Miss Elizabeth Bennet is doing at the beginning in addition to the above, Paula, is mocking the definition of "sensible" which the practice of that day encouraged. She is, however, keenly aware of how infrequently people rise above the common folly and thus of how slim are her chances of marrying. It is her good fortune to come across such a man in Mr. Darcy, though it is only in the face of her stunning rebuke at Hunsford that he does rise above it. Thus she ends as being both a better (in comprehending the general human condition), and worse (in comprehending particular instances of that condition), judge of human character than she believed herself to be at the beginning. She, too, had good principles, but followed them in pride and conceit.
Eric
Posted by Eric on November 07, 1996 at 15:38:58:
: :
: "If you're looking for sex appeal, then make Colin Firth Prime Minister. Now there's a thought!! Just how many votes do you think he would get from this BB? :-)
: : : Bernie
: : ___________________
: :
: : I'd like to see him play a politician. Well, there's Nostromo, but I mean a Jeffrey Archer type British politician -- or a spy!
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: How about something in the range of Hidden Agenda. I would certainly vote for him. A unanimous vote I'm sure from all.
: Johanne
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All the decent British political leaders over the last several centuries have been females - Thatcher, Queen Elizabeth II, Queen Victoria, Queen Elizabeth I, etc. Winston was probably the only significant exception. So my own thoughts are that we should put Jennifer Ehle in as PM. Give Mr. Firth the Exchequer.
Eric
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Posted by Eric on November 07, 1996 at 15:40:38:
: Hi Everyone --
: Kali, Mich, and I have made plans to meet for Tea in San Francisco on Saturday, December 21, 1996.
: We would be most happy if any of you would also like to join us. Please RSVP to my E-mail by
: December 1st.
: Hope to hear from you,
: Candace
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I'd love to come, but the air-fare is excessive. Now if anyone would like to meet for a Cappuccino in Taormina...
Eric
Posted by Janet on November 07, 1996 at 15:48:18:
: : Is there more deception lurking in P&P? [snip] I don't recall a letter from Mr. B to hurry her return as she claimed, and Maria et al seemed visibly surprised by this (apparent falsehood?). More shocking was her refusal to cow-tow to Lady C. as usual.
: : Janet
:
: ___________________
:
: While there may or may not have been an actual letter from her father, it was true that he eagerly awaited her return. In Chapter 27 (before Lizzie's departure for Hunsford) "The only pain was in leaving her father, who would certainly miss her, and who, when it came to the point, so little liked her going, that he told her to write to him, and almost promised to answer her letter."
: I think that the shock registered by Maria et al was to the fact that Lizzie dared to go against the wishes of Lady C. They would have been equally shocked even if she had an actual letter in hand to show to Lady C.
: Joan, too
_________
I like the "almost promised to answer her letter." So Lizzie almost told the truth. You are right, of course, that the entire party was mostly shocked by Lizzie's bold and outspoken way with Lady C.
Did you notice that in the film, only Charlotte seems (by her knowing espressions) to not be so surprised by Lizzie's behaviour - at Rosings and elsewhere? In a way, Charlotte seems to understand Lizzie better than the other unsuspecting innocents. Perhaps this is what supports the idea that only she was wise to the relationship between Lizzie and Darcy. While we may disagree about the decisions she made for herself, Charlotte does seem to be more clued into human nature than the others. Perhaps she learned a few things by growing up with Sir Lucas the baffoon as a father, as did Lizzie growing up with less than perfect parents.
Lizzie is clearly set up as the only reasonable member of the Bennet family. Is this meant to allow that although one does not benefit from an ideal upbringing, one can grow up to overcome despite the constraints of society? This may have been a rather revolutionary concept in a society in which wealthy and powerful families were expected (and hoped) to rule all forever and ever. Indeed, there was a fall-out in P&P. Any thoughts or am I just expounding/reaching?
: Janet
__________
Posted by Carolyn on November 07, 1996 at 16:22:42:
: : I will also love to have a P&P2 calendar to get me through
: : 1997. What do you all think ?
: : Zimei
How about a daily version? It could follow the story line, Jan. 1 (Bingley/Darcy checking out Netherfield) to Dec. 31 (The Kiss).
Follow Ups:
Posted by Janet on November 07, 1996 at 16:23:27:
: Wonderful idea.
: I think we all know which picture would be used the most.
: I liked the one Amy used "I would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours" or something like that.
: Mich
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On a pair of suspenders? Sorry.
: Janet
_________
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Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 16:25:56:
: : :
: : "If you're looking for sex appeal, then make Colin Firth Prime Minister. Now there's a thought!! Just how many votes do you think he would get from this BB? :-)
: : : : Bernie
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : I'd like to see him play a politician. Well, there's Nostromo, but I mean a Jeffrey Archer type British politician -- or a spy!
: : : Amy
: :
: : ___________________
: : How about something in the range of Hidden Agenda. I would certainly vote for him. A unanimous vote I'm sure from all.
: : Johanne
:
: ___________________
: All the decent British political leaders over the last several centuries have been females - Thatcher, Queen Elizabeth II, Queen Victoria, Queen Elizabeth I, etc. Winston was probably the only significant exception. So my own thoughts are that we should put Jennifer Ehle in as PM. Give Mr. Firth the Exchequer.
: Eric
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Hee hee. I like that!
- K
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Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on November 07, 1996 at 16:33:57:
: : : I would also love to have a P&P2 calendar to get me through 1997. What do you all think ?
: : : Zimei
: How about a daily version? It could follow the story line, Jan. 1 (Bingley/Darcy checking out Netherfield) to Dec. 31 (The Kiss).
___________________
Rank Heresy! 
In that case the Netherfield Ball wouldn't be on November 26th, Lizzy wouldn't run away at the beginning of August, etc.
What would work is one of those 16-month calendars, that go from September 1st to December 31st of the following year.
Link:
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Posted by Anna on November 07, 1996 at 16:42:08:
: Lydia would not - did not - take the realities of life into consideration, but Lizzie has the intelligence and understanding of the structure of society that she could not see herself marrying someone who could not provide for her.
: Joan, too
___________________
As I see it, it would have been entirely irresponsible to marry without hope of an income adequate to your needs. Without either effective contraception or social security, you would also be inflicting poverty on your children, at a time when that meant no plumbing, no heating (in England yet) and appalling and scanty food.
Anna
Posted by Amy on November 07, 1996 at 16:44:08:
You guys are all such fun. Every one of you. Thanks for your company.
Amy
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Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 16:47:44:
: I have to agree with you on both counts. I actually read Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights before any Austen novels. At the time, I declared Jane Eyre to be the most masterfully written romantic novbel I ever read. Needless to say it was my favorite and Wurthering Heigths just did not meet up to the standard.
: My interest in Jane Eyre is acttually what led me to read Pride and Prejuidce and for that I shall be ever thankful. Reading it now can never bring such pleasure as it did before P&P.
: Stefanie
___________________
Not that it's a bad book, but Jane Eyre and I just never clicked. I'd read P&P long before, and knowing that the Brontes wrote very unAusten novels, I couldn't really get into it. When the book was assigned in our AP English Lit. class in high school, I never finished it (I have since), and generally pissed off all of the Bronte people in the class because of it. I thought Wuthering Heights was weird, which further served to annoy people. I always thought Heathcliff was psycho and Rochester was too sappy and codependent (Tommye? Janet? Wasn't this y'all's term?). Mr. Darcy could never be so messed up. Needless to say, I used P&P for the open lit. esssay on the test.
- K
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Posted by Amy on November 07, 1996 at 16:53:31:
What would work is one of those 16-month calendars, that go from September 1st to December 31st of the following year.
___________________
Yes and since we all of us have an unsocial taciturn academic sort of bent, such a configuration would be most agreeable and appropriate. Yes indeed. Happy thought.
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 16:53:40:
: : I haven't read the book in over 5 years, but wasn't Adele's mother the psycho living in the attic. From what I remember, Mr. Rochester could not marry Jane at first because his former wife, Adele's mother, was still alive. It was not until after the fire, when she did die, that they could marry.
: : Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have a feeling that I might be getting confused with another novel.
: : Stefanie
:
: ___________________
: Adele's mother was a French dancer who died; Rochester might or might not have been Adele's father (the mother had several lovers). The psycho in the attic was Rochester's wife - he married her when he was very young in Jamaica and didn't know about the madness in her family. She died during the fire (which she started) and at the end Jane could marry Rochester. I loved the book as a teenager as well as P&P, but have never liked Wuthering Heights very much. Last read Jane Eyre about five years ago, but have seen the Dalton and Welles versions. May have to rent the new one now!
: Inko
___________________
Bertha Mason (Or Antoinette), Rochester's first wife, is the subject of Jean Rhys' _The Wide Sargasso Sea_. The books explores the relationship b/t R and Bertha and partially blames Rochester for her madness (I'm not going to divulge any secrets, b/c it is a fascinating book!). THere's a movie out, too, with Karina Lombard. It has lots of sex in it.
- K
Posted by Donna on November 07, 1996 at 17:00:52:
:
: : I have to agree with you on both counts. I actually read Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights before any Austen novels. At the time, I declared Jane Eyre to be the most masterfully written romantic novbel I ever read. Needless to say it was my favorite and Wurthering Heigths just did not meet up to the standard.
: : My interest in Jane Eyre is acttually what led me to read Pride and Prejuidce and for that I shall be ever thankful. Reading it now can never bring such pleasure as it did before P&P.
: : Stefanie
:
: ___________________
:
: Not that it's a bad book, but Jane Eyre and I just never clicked. I'd read P&P long before, and knowing that the Brontes wrote very unAusten novels, I couldn't really get into it. When the book was assigned in our AP English Lit. class in high school, I never finished it (I have since), and generally pissed off all of the Bronte people in the class because of it. I thought Wuthering Heights was weird, which further served to annoy people. I always thought Heathcliff was psycho and Rochester was too sappy and codependent (Tommye? Janet? Wasn't this y'all's term?). Mr. Darcy could never be so messed up. Needless to say, I used P&P for the open lit. esssay on the test.
: - K
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I never read the book but Rochester was I thought tricked into marrying a crazy woman through no fault of his own. He had to stay married for 15 years with, no honest way out.
I could see a simularities between him and Mr. Darcy.
The way {in the movie}Mrs. Fairfax described Mr. Rochester
sounded like Mr. D.
Donna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 17:11:16:
: :
: : : I have to agree with you on both counts. I actually read Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights before any Austen novels. At the time, I declared Jane Eyre to be the most masterfully written romantic novbel I ever read. Needless to say it was my favorite and Wurthering Heigths just did not meet up to the standard.
: : : My interest in Jane Eyre is acttually what led me to read Pride and Prejuidce and for that I shall be ever thankful. Reading it now can never bring such pleasure as it did before P&P.
: : : Stefanie
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Not that it's a bad book, but Jane Eyre and I just never clicked. I'd read P&P long before, and knowing that the Brontes wrote very unAusten novels, I couldn't really get into it. When the book was assigned in our AP English Lit. class in high school, I never finished it (I have since), and generally pissed off all of the Bronte people in the class because of it. I thought Wuthering Heights was weird, which further served to annoy people. I always thought Heathcliff was psycho and Rochester was too sappy and codependent (Tommye? Janet? Wasn't this y'all's term?). Mr. Darcy could never be so messed up. Needless to say, I used P&P for the open lit. esssay on the test.
: : - K
:
: ___________________
: I never read the book but Rochester was I thought tricked into marrying a crazy woman through no fault of his own. He had to stay married for 15 years with, no honest way out.
: I could see a simularities between him and Mr. Darcy.
: The way {in the movie}Mrs. Fairfax described Mr. Rochester
: sounded like Mr. D.
: Donna
___________________
I don't think he was tricked into anything. He married Bertha for her money and then cheated on her, according to Rhys' interpretation. R and Bertha were just too different to get along, and she had personal problems relating to her mothers insanity and her young bother's death. _The Wide Sargasso Sea_ is a great novel written entirely as an allusion to Jane Eyre, which exzplores the Rochester - Bertha relationship.
- K
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 17:19:41:
In the book Rodchester is not described as handsome, but Timothy Dalton definitely is handsome. I think he would have made a good Darcy. What do you think?
: ___________________
: Yes, Timothy Dalton was in two James Bond movies. I heard he was replaced because he was too old. He has also been in the mini-series Scarlett, which was the sequel to Gone With The Wind. He played Rhett Butler. I have also seen him in a movie called The King's Whore. Donna, you will love him in Jane Eyre.
___________________
Too old? I have two words for those who say that: ROGER MOORE.
While he wasn't my favorite Bond (I prefer Sean Connery, the original), Dalton certainly fits the character's physical descriptions in the Ian Fleming novels. I loved the novels, and even though they are especially irrelevant to this BB in particular, has anyone else enjoyed them? The films are lots of fun, but they are only chopped-up, filled in, and transfigured versions of the books. Some plotlines cross over into other stories. My biggest pet peave is that the first novel, _Casino Royale_, was never made into a film, while _Dr. No_ was. Now, everyone automatically assumes that _Dr. No_ was the first, and so ignore _CR_which is incredibly exciting!).
- K
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Posted by Inko on November 07, 1996 at 17:23:11:
: : Thanks so much. Very very kind of you to do the transcription.
: : Isn't it funny and kind of wierd to think of him in Hollywood? I was impressed with his humbleness and need to mention the obviousness of the poolside setting. If he really had to drive a long ways, I wonder where he is staying? One would hope way way out in Santa Barbara or Del Mar and not far off but way tacky like the Valley or Orange County. I thought most Brits in LA liked to hang out in Santa Monica. Where are sound stages for A Thousand Acres, the movie he is shooting. Isn't the studio a division of Disney? That probably puts him in a standard issue Oakwood Apartment in Burbank.
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: First of all, many thanks Annemiek!
: Yes I'm always quite impressed with his humbleness. Colin Firth seems to possess the quatity of not taking himself too seriously. With all the super-sized egos going around Hollywood, this is quite refreshing indeed. In that Mirabella article, he said he originally refused the Darcy role because he didn't think he "phisically cut the mustard". The article then comments "Odd; many would say he slices, dices, and purees the mustard." :)
: Zimei
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Thank you so much, Annemiek.
Zimei, I agree with you - he doesn't take himself too seriously. I think he is too intelligent to fall into the trap of all that Hollywood hype. He's probably only out there because of his son.
I also think he's too intelligent to ever want to be Prime Minister - though playing one might be an idea.
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