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Posted by Cheryl on November 07, 1996 at 02:43:20:
: Amy,
: Maybe Mich's idea of the Darcy Doll could be sold here to generate some revenue?
: - Candace
___________________
I'd buy one!
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on November 07, 1996 at 02:43:54:
: Zimei:
: Lizzy herself, as well as all her sisters, will have only $1,000 pounds after Mr. B dies. $1,000 pounds will have $50 interest a year, so it's not a too far-fetched situation for her. Suppose she only meets Darcy then, I'm sure the Darcy/Lizzy love story will still happen. Will she really think Darcy being insensible?
No, of course she would not consider Darcy unsensible - the very rich can afford to do whatever they choose. But at the time that she was contemplating the possibilities, she had no contact with any elligible men of such wealth that they could afford to do exactly as they chose. Bingley's arrival in the neighborhood was the first such opportunity that presented itself for the eligible young women of Meryton.
: Different scenario: suppose Lizzy falls in love with Colonel Fitzwilliam instead of Darcy, and Colonel Fitzwilliam also loves her enough to settle with her on a modest living, I don't think Lizzy would be the one to flinch at thoughts of marrying an insensible men without wits.
Fitzwilliam is in the same position as Wickham. He has no income. In the book, he puts it quite explicitly to Lizzie, "Younger sons can not marry where they like ... there are not many in my rank of life who can aford to marry without some attention to money." He implies that if he did have an income, he might well have made Lizzy an offer, but in his financial circumstances, he cannot. And if he did make one out of love, he would not be a sensible man, and thus would lose Lizzie's respect.
Lydia would not - did not - take the realities of life into consideration, but Lizzie has the intelligence and understanding of the structure of society that she could not see herself marrying someone who could not provide for her. And she recognizes that that may well mean becoming a spinster rather than marrying a man she does not love.
While odious and offensive, Mr Collins was not far off the mark when he told her that she might well never receive another offer of marriage, and was quite forebearing when he said (as many other men might not) that he would never reproach her for bringing only 50 pounds per year into the marriage.
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Zimei on November 07, 1996 at 02:56:24:
: RE: I'd as soon call her mother a wit
: Ann suggested:
: There
: : is also a third interpretation--that he does not like to
: : admit, even perhaps to himself, that he is attracted
: : to Lizzy.
: ___________________
: I have always liked this explanation the best. And I would even take it a step further. He is wrestling with himself even at this stage, knows he is attracted, but feels it his duty to fight the feeling. One way to fight a feeling is to sort of chant an affirmation. "She's not pretty. I don't feel anything for her. I'd as soon call her mother a wit."
: Also couldn't he have know he would get a laugh? Would it be so out of character for him, among his intimates, to play to the room?
: Amy
___________________
Amy I totally garee with you that Darcy is aleady attracted to Lizzy and subconciously wants to fight it off. Remember at the assembly, after Lizzy overhears his infamous "tolerable" remark, stands up and walks right by him. Darcy's eyes follows her, then retreats slightly, but can't help moving back to Lizzy again immediately.
Darcy is probably so used to get all the attension where ever he goes, althought he may not always like it. When Darcy and Bingley were talking earlier, Charlotte, Maria and a few other girls were chatting in the other side of the room, they looked at Darcy quite a bit (another well-crafted background scene). Darcy obviously has been the center of the attension that night even if he just stands and walks around, and Lizzy doesn't give him a glance when walking by, she is definitely different from any woman he has met !
This attraction of course is of alarming nature to Darcy, I do think that rude although witty remark later serves as, at least partially, a reassurance or confirmation to himself that he doesn't care for her.
Zimei
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 03:56:13:
: Thank you, my friends! Without you, I never would have known that
: there were missing scenes, let alone the commercial free broadcast
: this morning. I now know, however, that I've watched my original
: tape so much that I know exactly where each commercial break is.
: Out of habit, I kept reaching for the remote to fast forward.
: To Grace: I very was surprised while watching the full screen of
: credits, that the person in charge of consistancy was a woman (Sue Clegg).
: Do you think that we could have done a better job with Mr. Firth's
: consistancy of sides. I think that I would have liked that task
: very well indeed! :-)
: - Candace
:
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Candace, ew! %^}
- K
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Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 03:59:16:
:
: : : : : I have often wondered what Mr Darcy would be called in private. Mr Darcy? Darcy? Fitzwilliam? Fitz? William?
: : : : : Another Anne
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : Myself I prefer Darcy - Fitzwilliam is *too* confusing (what were his parents thinking of), Mr is too formal, Fitz too twee (besides being a polite way of saying 'bastard of'), William is incorrect. Maybe we should come up with a middle name for him, historically inaccurate though it be.
: : : : Anna
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : How about "Ralph?"
: : : - K
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Or, maybe "Frank" ?
: : - K
: ___________________
: Fitzy-pooh. Darcy-warcy. Sweet Mr. D.
: ::tommye
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Priceless, Tommye, priceless!
- K
Posted by Hilary on November 07, 1996 at 04:00:58:
A very showy variation of this style is to cross your left hand over with a light little legato mouse click. It is an accomplishment of certain, but by no means all, refined societies.)
: Amy
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Sounds wonderful, wish I could see! Do you perform to strangers?
Hilary
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Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 04:04:59:
: : :
: : : _________
: :
: :
: :
: Hee hee. I'm pretty sly myself! Yes, I love cats.
: : - K
: ___________________
: Hey, K. Did I tell you that I had four cats? Also, I didn't know you were in law school!
: ::Tommye
___________________
FOUR? WOW!!! WHat are their names? I have two - Foofie Kitty and Friday. As for Law School, I'm applying now. I'm not sure if I'll end up going right away or deferring, but the plan is to go straight in! I hope it all works out!
- K
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 04:09:17:
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : No, but I might eat the cat.
: : : : : : : - K
: : : : : : ___________________
: : : : : :
: : : : : : Cute. You must not be as compulsive as some of us -- about this anyway. I suppose you will have to be a little compulsive in other positive ways to succeed in law school. You are going to write one great brief, Kali.
: : : : : : Amy
: : : : :
: : : : : ___________________
: : : : :
: : : : : Thanks! Actually, if left to my own devices, I would probably be exhibiting ultra-compulsive behaviour about the tapings at this point. Right now, honors thesis is forcing me to be compulsive about Upton Sinclair, the '34 CA gubernatorial race, and ag. laborism during the depression (borrrring). Otherwise, it would be P&P only - my first love!
: : : : : - K
: : : : : PS - Don't tell my cats about the above - please?!
: : : :
: : : : _________
: : : : Kali, are we back to cats again or is this just another obsession? (I finally noticed your post on yet another thread about the sly one.)
: : : : : Janet
: : : : __________
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : Jane, Janet, Janet. Hee hee. I'm pretty sly myself! Yes, I love cats.
: : : - K
: :
: : _________
: : Kali, Kali, Kat. Sly you are, and you keep on your toes, too. How do you do it - while studying law? I am impressed indeed.
: : : Janet
: P.S. I don't really sound like Jane, do I? Agreed, she was sweet, but...
: : __________
:
: ___________________
___________________
No, you have a sharp, witty edge which Jane lacked. But that doesn't mean that you aren't as nice as Jane. As I told Tommye above, I'm not in law school yet - I'm still a senior at Berkeley. I'm applying to law school right now. I'll keep you posted as the decisions come in. THanks for the encouragement!
- K : )
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 04:13:55:
Do you perform to strangers?
: Hilary
___________________
That was just beautiful, Hilary. I wish you hadn't beaten me to it (not like I would have thought of it on my own, but...)! ; )
- K
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 04:19:42:
:
: : :
: : : :
: : ___________________
: :
: : I'm hear, Tommye! Compleat with my aweful speling - but, I'm seeking to make a transforAMTION in that department (that's how I spelled it, right?).
: : Your young friend,
: : Kali ; )
: ___________________
: Thanks, I enjoyed that. And, yes, you ARE young.
: ::Tommye
: P. S. Why, I have jammies as old as you!
___________________
You're kidding(?). ; )
- K
Posted by Kali on November 07, 1996 at 04:24:28:
...also including a full frontal shot, and no, she did not need a wonder bra for P&P2).
: Anna
___________________
Huh?
- K
Posted by Joan, too on November 07, 1996 at 04:32:17:
: : Lizzie does take over the mothering role. Do you think Mrs. B. notices this and feels resentful towards Lizzie at times. I feel it at certain times that she does resent Lizzie.
: : Donna
: ___________________
She does, indeed, and even more overtly in the book than in the film. But not really over the mothering.
: Amy
: There is evidence -- HC found it recently -- in the text that Lizzy was the least favorite daughter.
Yes, JA actually says it in so many words (see the end of Chapter 18) - and Mrs. B. resents her even more overtly in the book than in the film. She more than once directly cricises Mr. Bennet for favoring Lizzie (without seeming to recognize how blatantly she favors Lydia - who is so much like her) - and also Jane - who is beautiful and compliant, and she criticises Lizzie any chance she gets. Furthermore, Lizzie has a mind of her own, and does not always comply with mom's wishes, and has a nasty habit of being right, which doesn't sit well with one who is often in the wrong.
: I even think that when Lizzy told her about her marriage plans and Mrs B fell silent for a moment? She was not just astonished. I believe that for an instant she was jealous, quickly recovered and thought better of it.
I think that if she was jealous, it was not for herself, but for Lydia or Jane. She doesn't think that Lizzie "deserves" a man with 10,000 a year, and would rather that a plum like that should have gone to one of her favorites.
: Ann:
: She must have been jealous of the way her husband favored Lizzy even over herself. Their conversations went painfully over her head. She must have known how little her husband regarded her, and to see her own daughter highly valued by her life's partner must have been painful.
Absolutely - this must have been quite hard on her nerves - in those occasional moments in which she had the understanding to be aware of it.
Joan, too
Posted by Bernie on November 07, 1996 at 04:55:31:
:
: : Dune and Dune Messiah are at the very top of my favorite book list! They are wonderful!
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
:
: I loved the entire Dune series except Chapterhouse
: (the last one). Science fiction is one of my other obsessions. Find a series and go crazy. Just finished the David Eddings series, the Mercedes Lackey series, and all of the McCaffrey books.
: Anne
___________________
Have you read any Robert Jordan yet ?
Bernie
Posted by Amy on November 07, 1996 at 05:01:04:
: Hi Everyone --
: Kali, Mich, and I have made plans to meet for Tea in San Francisco on Saturday, December 21, 1996.
: We would be most happy if any of you would also like to join us. Please RSVP to my E-mail by
: December 1st.
: Hope to hear from you,
: Candace
___________________
Oh. How I wish I could be there. Where? Lots of nice ghosty feelings and literary references at the St Francic or Fairmont.
Amy
Posted by Joan, too on November 07, 1996 at 05:19:53:
: Amy:
: it occurred to me today that not everybody here is as familiar with usenet and list culture, so I suppose we must do some teaching -- by example and occasionally with reminders. (Am I a mom or what?)
___________________
I have been thinking about this, too - having noticed some of us making attempts to clarify which can have the opposite effect on those who are familliar with the online "scene."
For example, this evening some kind soul tried using UPPER CASE LETTERS to distinguish her comments from the quoted material - which ordinarily would serve quite well, except that in this virtual world, upper case typing is interpreted as SHOUTING!!! If one innocently uses this device in less tolerant online communities, one's mailbox may fill up with kindly meant (and otherwise) messages advising them not to yell.
There is an accepted method for indicating which lines of a post are quoted and which are new comments being added. Novices may have noticed messages that have little carets (I hope this displays) ">" in front of some lines of text. These are often automaticaly added by your mailer applications when you reply to a message. But I can't put in an example because in web pages, the "caret" symbols are used to mark or "tag" the text with different type styles, and other formatting features. So, the author of the CGI scripts which run this BB has used the colon ":" symbol in place of the caret. These symbols are typically nested so as to indicate how many authors back are being quoted:
: : : person "a"
: : person "b"
: person "c"
and the new material is typed in with no leading characters at all. That way, the reader can scan quickly past quoted stuff that they have
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on November 07, 1996 at 05:28:57:
and the new material is typed in with no leading characters at all. That way, the reader can scan quickly past quoted stuff that they have
___________________
Oh dirty word! The server chopped off the back end of the text - again! Well, unlike Kali, I am not up for re-creating it at this hour, so good night all...
Joan, too
Posted by Bernie on November 07, 1996 at 05:43:26:
: ___________________
: Yes. I adored Wilkinson and Postlethwaite both! They reminded me (especially the former) of Mr. Collins to a certain degree. Do you see the connection? "Capital, Capital!" (just like Sir William Lucas in P&P2).
Oh, yes absolutely, Mr. Pecksniff is such a slimeball. In fact I think he's even greasier than Mr. Collins.
: More links in our chain -- Wilkinson played Mr. Dashwood, who dies in the first two minutes, in S&S.
Yes, I forgot about that. S&S is released on video on Friday (at last), so I'll be off to the nearest HMV store to purchase my copy.
: Do you live in the UK? Is that where Chuzzlewit is available? Perhaps I could find it in the PBS mail-order catalog, though I doubt I could afford it right now. I'd much rather find it for rent.
Yes. I had this discussion with Joan, too about a week ago, but if you have a video that will play in PAL format (like she does), I may be able to help you.
: One of the refreshing things about Chuzzlewit is that it is much more ... airy and light than most Dickens (Little Dorritt or Oliver Twist, for example), despite numerous London filth scenes (Elizabeth Spriggs was never more greasy!). I have trouble with Dickens when he is too preoccupied with class struggle and industrial pollution.
Again, I agree with you. I have read Dickens' more comic novels, such as Nicholas Nickleby and The Pickwick Papers but I haven't been able to cope (as yet) with his more sombre novels eg. Bleak House.
Regards,
Bernie
___________________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Bernie on November 07, 1996 at 06:13:22:
At the assembly ball the sleeves were above the elbow and the embroidery was of feathery ferns. At Pemberley the dress she wore had elbow sleeves embroidered with swirls, almost a Paisley pattern. Also the hem, which was embroidered with the same pattern, wasn't quite full length so her petticoat showed.
: ___________________
: They do look awfully similar, though! As far as I can tell it is only the sleeves that are different.
: Ann
___________________
Yes, that's true. In fact with the exception of the red flowered dress, Lizzie always seems to be wearing pastel colours. All her other sisters (Mary excepted, perhaps) seem to have a much wider variety in dress colour. Perhaps, this is meant to reflect their tastes ?
Bernie
Posted by Annemiek on November 07, 1996 at 06:36:59:
BBC's TV60 Awards (Sunday November, 3)
Favourite Actor: Colin Firth
Here is Colin's acceptance speech:
BBC-host:
Colin Firth is in fact in Los Angeles at this very moment, he should be poolside in Beverly Hills.
Colin, very many congratulations from us. Very well done indeed.
Colin Firth:
Thank you very much. I have driven a long way this morning just to sit here for precisely this effect. So it is good that you mention it.
Well I seem to have benefited in one way or another from the BBC for years now having grown up on them in terms of television. They have gone on to provide me with the greatest satisfaction I have ever had in terms of work.
And now this.
Despite the feeling that my career might have just peaked, I would like to thank them and above all those who voted for me. It is a formidable list of nominees and it is praise enough simply to be on it so I shall grab this (the statue) and flee before there is a recount.
Thank you very much.
That's it. It was a short but witty speech with a lot of laughter from the audience.
I hope you like it. I did!
Annemiek
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Posted by Bernie on November 07, 1996 at 06:38:38:
On the news Last night some politicians were discussing how Mr. Blair (leader of the opposition) could become more appealing to women voters. Some bright spark said "If you're looking for sex appeal, then make Colin Firth Prime Minister. Now there's a thought!! Just how many votes do you think he would get from this BB? :-)
Bernie
Follow Ups:
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