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Posted by Amy on November 06, 1996 at 17:09:40:
: How about, Rather obsessed from look of long (posts). How do you keep up with this BB?
: : Janet
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I am glad you brought this up, Janet. I do not wish to scold, but it does take up a lot of extra bandwidth -- not to mention reading time -- when a long string of quotes are repeated. I'd appreciate everyone trying to :
- Edit quoted material -- put in just enough so those who have been following the thread know to what you are referring. Sometimes it means doing a little summarizing. Sometimes it's funny to see the long string (I'm thinking of the domain name discussion last weekend). Use your judgement.
- Avoid quoting 10 KB only to say "Oh" at the end. Sometimes thanks and applause are appropriate, other times it just takes up space.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Nancy R on November 06, 1996 at 17:10:23:
she, herself, is mentally prepared to become a spinster governess rather than to marry without love.
I agree with your interpretation, but could you see Lizzy as a governess?? I think in the book it was suggested that their education was up to each daughter. She read what and if she wanted. I don't think she would be qualified to be a governess. Why not just go to Cheapside and marry one of Uncle G's business friends. I would be a step down from marrying a Gentleman, but would it not be considered better than being a governess? A man "in trade" would gain in prestige by marrying a gentleman's daughter and probably would mind the 50 pounds a year (interest on a 1000 pounds) less. What is your own opinion?
Nancy R
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Posted by Janet on November 06, 1996 at 17:14:46:
: RE: I'd as soon call her mother a wit
: Ann suggested:
: There
: : is also a third interpretation--that he does not like to
: : admit, even perhaps to himself, that he is attracted
: : to Lizzy.
: ___________________
: I have always liked this explanation the best. And I would even take it a step further. He is wrestling with himself even at this stage, knows he is attracted, but feels it his duty to fight the feeling. One way to fight a feeling is to sort of chant an affirmation. "She's not pretty. I don't feel anything for her. I'd as soon call her mother a wit."
: Also couldn't he have know he would get a laugh? Would it be so out of character for him, among his intimates, to play to the room?
: Amy
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As the original line is not in the book (thank you Joan for this confirmation, since I tried in vain to find it) - we may even conclude that Darcy may have never said it at all, and that the line was actually of Caroline's own invention. Davies may have trusted her as a source of famous quotations, but I wouldn't put anything past her.
: Janet
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Posted by kathleen on November 06, 1996 at 17:16:45:
: : So sorry, I was preoccupied with so many posts (and on election night - perhaps this tells us something) that I did not hear my name called.
: : I, too, was surprised at Darcy's indiscretion with this remark in the film, so I checked the book and it does not appear in that scene, at least.
: : Don't you think Darcy tried to get the Bingley sisters' goat and may have even enjoyed teasing them, somewhat like an older brother's sly taunting (there we go again)? He definitely did not want to reveal his true feelings, least of all to them, until he was sure of Lizzy. Maybe some of his denials about his feelings for her were meant to lead them down another path and yes - get them off his back. Goodness knows they were climbing all over him - like cats with claws! (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
: : : Janet
:
: ___________________
: While I don't recall off hand where this quote is in the book, I know that it is in there somewhere.
: I always thought that when Darcy said this line,he was not sure of his feelings for Lizzy yet and he surely didn't want any of hte Bingley sisters to suspect him. I figured that this line was said to put on the facade of normality. (Is that a word?) Anyway, I would definetly have to say that he lives to regret ever speaking these words.
: Stefanie
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I believe that the only place this quote appears in the book is when Caroline is ragging Darcy about having said it. That's probably why the reference (to when Darcy said it) isn't quite correct -- Davies has Darcy say it at a different point than Caroline is referring back to.
kathleen
Posted by Nancy R on November 06, 1996 at 17:17:24:
: : : : : I have often wondered what Mr Darcy would be called in private. Mr Darcy? Darcy? Fitzwilliam? Fitz? William?
: : : : : Another Anne
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : Myself I prefer Darcy - Fitzwilliam is *too* confusing (what were his parents thinking of), Mr is too formal, Fitz too twee (besides being a polite way of saying 'bastard of'), William is incorrect. Maybe we should come up with a middle name for him, historically inaccurate though it be.
: : : : Anna
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : How about "Ralph?"
: : : - K
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Or, maybe "Frank" ?
: : - K
:
: ___________________
: uurk!
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In the "sequel" "Pemberly Shades"
Lizzy calls him Fitz and I think his sister calls him Fitzwilliam. All the rest call him Darcy or Mr. Darcy.
Should they call a son Bennett Darcy? Ben Darcy?
Nancy R
Posted by Cheryl on November 06, 1996 at 17:20:47:
: Lizzie does take over the mothering role. Do you think Mrs. B. notices this and feels resentful towards Lizzie at times. I feel it at certain times that she does resent Lizzie.
: Donna
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She does resent Lizzy, but not because Lizzy takes over some of the parenting duties (I think Mrs. Bennet is relieved at that). Lizzy is her father's favorite and has his quick wit where Mrs. B. is dull, she uses humor to cope with life's worries where Mrs. B. obsesses (very aggravating), she obeys but is not pliant as Jane is, she obviously doesn't respect her mother. I wonder if Mrs. B. deep down knows that Lizzy is a much superior person and if this contributes to her resentment?
Cheryl
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Posted by Donna on November 06, 1996 at 17:21:32:
: : RE: I'd as soon call her mother a wit
: : Ann suggested:
: : There
: : : is also a third interpretation--that he does not like to
: : : admit, even perhaps to himself, that he is attracted
: : : to Lizzy.
: : ___________________
: : I have always liked this explanation the best. And I would even take it a step further. He is wrestling with himself even at this stage, knows he is attracted, but feels it his duty to fight the feeling. One way to fight a feeling is to sort of chant an affirmation. "She's not pretty. I don't feel anything for her. I'd as soon call her mother a wit."
: : Also couldn't he have know he would get a laugh? Would it be so out of character for him, among his intimates, to play to the room?
: : Amy
:
: __________
: As the original line is not in the book (thank you Joan for this confirmation, since I tried in vain to find it) - we may even conclude that Darcy may have never said it at all, and that the line was actually of Caroline's own invention. Davies may have trusted her as a source of famous quotations, but I wouldn't put anything past her.
: : Janet
: _________
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Why not she could have made it up.
Here another thing when Lady C. didn't like the idea of Lizzie and Maria going home alone Do you think Lizzie actullay lied about her uncle sending a servant just to get out of there, because Lydia and Kitty did say their coming to meet them was a surprised.
Thanks Donna
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Posted by Amy on November 06, 1996 at 17:22:36:
: Lizzie does take over the mothering role. Do you think Mrs. B. notices this and feels resentful towards Lizzie at times. I feel it at certain times that she does resent Lizzie.
: Donna
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Boy do I ever agree with you about this, Donna.
I am not sure the resentment all comes from Lizzy being a better mom type. I just think she can't stand Lizzy. Some on the Austen list point to her change of heart after the marriage and believe she is not really mean spirited.
I don't think I am being overly influenced by the Allison Steadman treatment of Mrs. B. There is evidence -- HC found it recently -- in the text that Lizzy was the least favorite daughter.
I think Mrs B resented the hell out of her. I even think that when Lizzy told her about her marriage plans and Mrs B fell silent for a moment? She was not just astonished. I believe that for an instant she was jealous, quickly recovered and thought better of it. I was mostly shouted down on the Austen list on this a few months back but I stand by it. It feels too right to me.
There are mothers who are jealous of their daughters -- especially daughters who are their fathers favorites and who possess gifts the mothers never had. Everybody knows this is true.
Amy
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Posted by Nancy R on November 06, 1996 at 17:27:19:
A couple of days ago someone posted a message (can't remember who, sorry!) regarding rumours of a Jane Eyre adaptation. Rumours are certainly true. It appears that it will be an ITV/A&E joint venture. Don't know whether it will be a short film -- like Emma -- or a multi-part series.
:
: ___________________
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I rented the BBC version with Timothy Dalton.
I enjoyed it quite a bit, tho it did not have the pollish of P&P2.
Nancy R.
Posted by Cheryl on November 06, 1996 at 17:39:17:
: - Avoid quoting 10 KB only to say "Oh" at the end. Sometimes thanks and applause are appropriate, other times it just takes up space.
: Amy
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Hear, hear! Well spoke! Brava!
Cheryl
PS Oh. I suppose this is what you meant. Sorry. ];-P
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Posted by Nancy R. on November 06, 1996 at 17:51:09:
: After watching the tapes about 500 times, I started to watch
: the people in the background, sometimes picking a particular
: person to look for. This was fascinating! I just loved Mary's look as they were all saying goodbye to Lydia and Wickham. She was the only one willing to make them feel uncomfortable!! Also at the Parsonage when Fitzwilliam sat back and crossed his arms to listen to Lizzie and Darcy. The best of the lost was the wedding scene. Try playing this in slow motion and watch the crowd. Did anyone see Georgina throw rose petals at Lizzie, leaving a couple stuck to her chest. Great stuff.
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I think they were bits of evergreen (cedar I hope) in the fashion of the day? I think the director did this as a final attempt to draw attention to.... Did I hear that Emelia Fox (Georgiana) is Alison Steadman's real-life daughter?
Notice when Wickham is explaining his reasons for skipping Netherfield ball that Lydia is in the background prancing around in Denny's hat which she has just taken from him?
Nancy R.
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Posted by Donna on November 06, 1996 at 17:51:52:
: : - Avoid quoting 10 KB only to say "Oh" at the end. Sometimes thanks and applause are appropriate, other times it just takes up space.
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: Hear, hear! Well spoke! Brava!
: Cheryl
: PS Oh. I suppose this is what you meant. Sorry. ];-P
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OK so U just Backspace everything you don't want.I have this problem I don't like to throw anything out. I save the dumbest things. I still have the Jesus Chirst Superstar program when I saw it 25 years ago. I could go on but I'll stop here.
Donna
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Posted by Tommye on November 06, 1996 at 17:54:23:
think I would like it but William Hurt is much more likeable then Orson Welles
: I find that we have watched it now 5 times and are watching at this very moment. Now we have to rent T.Dalton version.
NOW, ON YOUR RECOMMENDATION, I WILL CERTAINLY RENT THE W. HURT VERSION--I JUST HAD TROUBLE SEEING HIM AS ROCHESTER. I LOVED THE TIMOTHY DALTON VERSION--OWN IT.
: I just think that Jane was plain. Never read the book but, I think I'll get my daughter to do it for a book report. Is there a version for younger readers?
JANE IS MOST DEFINITELY PLAIN. FRANKLY, ROCHESTER (IN THE BOOK) IS SUPPOSED TO BE RATHER UGLY. (LACKING IN SYMMETRY, ETC.)
The book will be tough for a young reader, since Charlotte does go on and on. While years ago I found her verbage flowed gloriously and was like music to my ears, when my daughter and I read it aloud last year, we thought it would never end. It is one of the most romantic books ever written, and, despite what critics say, Charlotte Bronte was far more talented than her sis in my opinion. HER characters have redeeming value, unlike those in Wuthering Heights.
::Tommye
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Posted by Nancy R on November 06, 1996 at 17:55:01:
: : Lizzie does take over the mothering role. Do you think Mrs. B. notices this and feels resentful towards Lizzie at times. I feel it at certain times that she does resent Lizzie.
: : Donna
:
: ___________________
: She does resent Lizzy, but not because Lizzy takes over some of the parenting duties (I think Mrs. Bennet is relieved at that). Lizzy is her father's favorite and has his quick wit where Mrs. B. is dull, she uses humor to cope with life's worries where Mrs. B. obsesses (very aggravating), she obeys but is not pliant as Jane is, she obviously doesn't respect her mother. I wonder if Mrs. B. deep down knows that Lizzy is a much superior person and if this contributes to her resentment?
: Cheryl
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Both Jane and Lizzy reprimand Lydia on the way home from the church. Jane does in Meryton as well when Lydia yells to Denny. But as we know Lydia is oblivious to all good sense!
Nancy R.
Posted by Amy on November 06, 1996 at 17:57:12:
Sometimes thanks and applause are appropriate, other times it just takes up space.
: : Amy
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: Hear, hear! Well spoke! Brava!
: Cheryl
: PS Oh. I suppose this is what you meant. Sorry. ];-P
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My dear Cheryl, how could I scold you for supporting me? Oh, who's to say what's important and what isn't in a place like this that is founded on silliness? It's all such a judgement call. I avoided saying anything at all except in the FAQ for a long time, but it occurred to me today that not everybody here is as familiar with usenet and list culture, so I suppose we must do some teaching -- by example and occasionally with reminders. (Am I a mom or what?)
Amy
Posted by Tommye on November 06, 1996 at 17:58:39:
: Just two days after I got kicked off the Austen-L, here's what i received in the mail:
: November 01, 1996
: Congratulations!
: Your A&E "Pride and Prejudice" entry has been selected as one of our 50 Second Prize winners in our "Pride and Prejudice" Sweepstakes. Now let A&E give you a royal treat.
: Enclosed please find Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" video cassette collection for your viewing pleasure, valued at approximately $25.00.
: We thank you for tuning in to A&E, and we appreciate you entering our "Pride and Prejudice" Sweepstakes.
: Sincerely,
: Michael Tive
: Director of Promotions
: A&E Television Networks
: YIPEE! Of couse I already paid top $ for this video last year and i'm bummed to see it's only worth $25 now!
: Julie
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If you don't want it, I'll gladly give you $50 plus shipping and handling for it. What do you think??
::Tommye
Posted by Nancy R. on November 06, 1996 at 18:02:38:
: : ___________________
: : : :
: : : : I undestand. I lopped off all of my hair, too, and sometimes it drives me crazy - phantom hair! Yes, nothing like a beautiful head of hair to reel in a man. I'm told that most men find long hair very erotic...does this constitute a hair fetish?
: : : : - K
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : Just think, Susannah Harker had 2 1/2 feet of her hair cut off in the front in order to play Jane!! That's several years worth of growth!!
: : : Ann
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : EEK!
: : - K
:
I understand that Jennifer Ehle is wearing a wig. It was decided that Lizzy should be a brunnet tho Jane Austen never tells us her hair colour. Soooooooo what colour is Jennifer's hair really??
Nancy R
: ___________________
: Not if it grows like pigweed. My hair is long enough to sit on at the moment. When I was in the States I had it cut short, by the time I came back (2 years), it had grown to almost its present length.
: Bernie
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Posted by Stefanie on November 06, 1996 at 18:02:51:
: The book will be tough for a young reader, since Charlotte does go on and on. While years ago I found her verbage flowed gloriously and was like music to my ears, when my daughter and I read it aloud last year, we thought it would never end. It is one of the most romantic books ever written, and, despite what critics say, Charlotte Bronte was far more talented than her sis in my opinion. HER characters have redeeming value, unlike those in Wuthering Heights.
: ::Tommye
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I have to agree with you on both counts. I actually read Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights before any Austen novels. At the time, I declared Jane Eyre to be the most masterfully written romantic novbel I ever read. Needless to say it was my favorite and Wurthering Heigths just did not meet up to the standard.
My interest in Jane Eyre is acttually what led me to read Pride and Prejuidce and for that I shall be ever thankful. Reading it now can never bring such pleasure as it did before P&P.
Stefanie
Posted by Stefanie on November 06, 1996 at 18:05:53:
: : One more thing Mr. Rodchester never married Adells mother right.
: : ciao Donna
:
: ___________________
: Nope, (thank God!) in fact he doesn't believe the child is his (Celine-Adele's mother was a dancer & his mistress for a time)
: Marsha
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I haven't read the book in over 5 years, but wasn't Adele's mother the psycho living in the attic. From what I remember, Mr. Rochester could not marry Jane at first because his former wife, Adele's mother, was still alive. It was not until after the fire, when she did die, that they could marry.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have a feeling that I might be getting confused with another novel.
Stefanie
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