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Posted by Kali on November 05, 1996 at 21:51:40:
: : :
: : : LOL - never been called the Dagmistress before!
: : : I've forgotten what all these smilies mean. I've just been trying to imagine P&P written with smilies!
: : : Hey, why don't we make it polygomy in Australia; the Antarctic is way too cold. I'm sure there is a reasonably isolated warm place we could find here.
: : : Hilary
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Okay, Australia it is! Question - what does LOL stand for? (I'm an idiot, I know!)...
: : Oh yeah - the smileys - I guess you could say they are the little ambassadors of inarticulate harmlessness, deriving their greatness from a desire to avoid flame wars without having to become a more effective writer. Jane Austen probably wouldn't have needed them. On the other hand, she may have used them to great effect at the parts where someone of the present - like us! - would have included a dirty-minded little aside.
: : About the Dagmistress thing - wasn't it you who introduced the word to the list?
: : - K
:
: ___________________
: Not an idiot at all. LOL means laughing out loud, although Donna introduced us to the alternative that is so appropriate to us on this BB - look of longing.
: And the Dagmistress?? Yes, I admit it, I'm guilty, I introduced it, shoot me now! (thanks Arnessa).
: Hilary
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Thanks, DM Hilary!
- K
Posted by Stefanie on November 05, 1996 at 21:55:27:
: You guys are so lucky that P&P 2 is repeated by A&E regularly. That's the one thing about the BBC, then don't tend to repeat broadcasts of these series. Just as well the videos are so much cheaper over here!
: Bernie
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Jeez, rub it in why don't you. I feel like I have the worst of both worlds since I paid $70 fopr my tapes, adn don't have a VCR in my dorm, AND, I don't get cable!! I won't be able to watch it again until Thanksgiving!
Stefanie
Posted by Anne on November 05, 1996 at 21:57:31:
: 1. Have you played video editor to such an extent as you never have before with this film -- taping the first time with commercials, retaping in August, carefully editing the commercials? Contemplating setting your alarm to wake up instead of programming the VCR for the upcoming commercial-free cablecase so you have no untidy lead-ins between episodes?
Definitely - didn't get it off of A&E as they switched times and I missed part of it. However, I have 'merged' the purchased videos to one tape so that I don't have to keep getting up to change the tape.
: 2. If, God forbid, Clinton were murdered tonight, would you still have the presence of mind to tape P&P in the morning?
Definitely -- I have post-a-notes all over my house to remind me.
: 3. Are those of you who own the tape still going to tape it as a back-up or pusher's copy?
Amy dear, one can never have too many copies of this wonderful experience.
Anne
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Posted by Stefanie on November 05, 1996 at 21:58:51:
: DonnaT
: I wish I could part with my tape long enough to lend it out.
: This how bad I've become. Somehow when trying to order a copy of P&P1 I accidently order the 2 tape version of P&P2. I already have the 6 tape version but I can't bring myself to send back the one order by mistake. I keep telling myself I might need it someday. Do I need to get a grip and send the thing back or what? Oh, both sets were $100.
: In great need of professional help for the obsession
: Mich
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While it is always a good idea to have back-up copies, you might want to consider returning one of the P&P2's. That way, you wouldn't feel guilty at all for ordering Emma whenever it's available.
If you think you're bad, I'm thinking about applying for a credit card just so I can order P&P stuff ove the phone and internet!
Stefanie
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 22:02:12:
: Chapter 45 or Volume 3 Chapter 3
: Right after Caroline Bingley's snide comment about the ___shire being removed from Meryton.
[there's a line missing in this quote]
..."Not a syllable had ever reached her [Caroline] of Miss Darcy's meditated elopement. To no creature had it been revealed, where secrecy was possible, except to Elizabeth; and from all Bingley's connections her [Georgiana's] brother was particularly anxious to conceal it from that very wish which Elizabeth had long ago attributed to him [Darcy], of their becoming hereafter her [Georgiana's] own. He had certainly formed such a plan, and without meaning that it should affect his [Darcy's] endeavour to separate him [Bingley] from Miss Bennet, it is probable that it might add something to his [Darcy's] lively concern for the welfare of his friend."
It's the antecedents that make it so confusing! I'm surprised that JA did not make more of an effort to clarify this passage. So, the gist of it is that Caroline had never heard about Georgiana's intended elopement, and Darcy had taken especial care not to have that information known among any of Bingley's connections because he hoped that Bingley and Georgiana would marry one day, and he feared that if Bingley became aware of the intended elopement, it would negatively affect Bingley's opinion of Georgiana. And while Darcy did not intend for his hope of a marriage between his sister and Bingley to influence him regarding separating Bingley from Jane, these hopes did cause him to take a very active interest in Bingley's welfare.
Joan, too
Posted by France on November 05, 1996 at 22:04:46:
:Posted earlier this a.m., but for all of you who missed that round, I bring you "yet another look (or two)"...
Sweet dreams, France
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Link:
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anna on November 05, 1996 at 22:06:24:
: : : :Sarah2
: : : P.S. Okay, now, didn't Mr. Darcy say about Lizzie, "She, pretty? I'd as soon call her mother a witch!" ?
: :
: : ___________________
: : No, I'm pretty sure that he said "wit." I don't think that witch would make as much snese. As I do not have a copy of the book nat hand, I can not verify it for sure, but I am 99.99% sure.
: : Stefanie
:
: ___________________
: Sarah and Stefanie,
: FOr sure, he said he'd soon call her mother a 'wit'. He means it sarcastically, because he doesn't first think Lizzie is so very pretty. If he had said 'witch', it would sort of be like a compliment, don't you think? He'd rather call her mother a witch than call her pretty, but then her mother, in a way, is like a witch? Or am I just going on about nothing?
: Tay
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As I remember it (>10 readings of the novel) Darcy says "I would as soon call her mother a wit"
Anna
Posted by Stefanie on November 05, 1996 at 22:07:05:
: THIS is the kind of danger I was trying to discuss in my first post (early last month). What's even more dangerous (and DIna, I know this doesn't apply to you!) is that some fans of the films never actually get to the books, and so never get a chance to experience JA's intentions/ideas/themes firsthand - not that the film's filtered versions are incorrect or misleading on the whole. Rather, and I think we all agree on this, it is important to utilize the films as complementary, companion sources to the novels when we analyze the stories, and not as substitutes for the real thing. An adapted film is merely an interpretation of a novel.
: My friend Chris, who hasn't read any Austen, stated in an e-Mail message this morning: "You know, it's too bad that many of our generation will know Austen only from films (especially guys). I think I'll go out and buy a copy of _Pride and Prejudice_ as you prescribe."
: Later,
: K
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True, true. I have a rule which I force myself to follow religiously and that is: I don't allow myself to watch a movie until I read the book. This rule a[pplies for me from Emma to A Time to Kill.
I find that if I don't read the book first, I miss out on developing my own images and interpretations. Even if I read the book after seeing the film, I can't shake the "suggestions" brought forth by the actors, the screenplay writers and the directors.
Stefanie
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on November 05, 1996 at 22:11:22:
: :
: : No, but I might eat the cat.
: : - K
: ___________________
:
: Cute. You must not be as compulsive as some of us -- about this anyway. I suppose you will have to be a little compulsive in other positive ways to succeed in law school. You are going to write one great brief, Kali.
: Amy
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Thanks! Actually, if left to my own devices, I would probably be exhibiting ultra-compulsive behaviour about the tapings at this point. Right now, honors thesis is forcing me to be compulsive about Upton Sinclair, the '34 CA gubernatorial race, and ag. laborism during the depression (borrrring). Otherwise, it would be P&P only - my first love!
- K
PS - Don't tell my cats about the above - please?!
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 22:14:57:
: So here goes on our favorite topic.
: 1. Have you played video editor to such an extent as you never have before with this film -- taping the first time with commercials, retaping in August, carefully editing the commercials? Contemplating setting your alarm to wake up instead of programming the VCR for the upcoming commercial-free cablecase so you have no untidy lead-ins between episodes?
: 2. If, God forbid, Clinton were murdered tonight, would you still have the presence of mind to tape P&P in the morning?
: 3. Are those of you who own the tape still going to tape it as a back-up or pusher's copy?
: Amy
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1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
Need I say more?
Joan, too
Posted by Anna on November 05, 1996 at 22:19:22:
:
: : Yes, but in the book, this encounter is in the afternoon (confusingly called morning - morning extended to dinner time in 1812). I also think that Georgiana has gone to bed in P&P2 - after all she is much younger than the rest of the party.
: : Anna
:
: ___________________
:
: I thought dinner, in 18th/19th c. England and early America, was actually what we call lunch, and what we call dinner was called supper. If that's the case, then it really would be morning, and not afternoon. That is, unless you know something I don't. Will you please explain?
: - K
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According to a variety of texts in my local Uni library meals in 1812 for the gentry would go something like
on wakening maybe coffee or chocolate (the drink) in your room , not officially acknowledged
breakfast ~ 10 am, fairly substantial (as seen at Netherfield on LIzzy's arrival)
if you were very active 'nuncheon', a light meal eg soup, middayish (many skipped this)
dinner 5-8 pm, getting later as the decade went on - tending to be early for country people and later for Londoners. In 'The Watsons' the main family is about to sit down to dinner when a guest drops in a 3pm - I this was written in the late 1790s
If you were up late &/or throwing an up-market party supper, another light (read informal) meal could be served about midnight. I like the section neat the end of P&P (text) where Mrs Bennet, having had Darcy, Bingley and others to dinner schemes to get D & B to stay to supper after the other guests have left.
I hope this helps,
Anna
(yes I have been pursuing this obsession to great lengths)
Posted by Amy on November 05, 1996 at 22:24:04:
: :Posted earlier this a.m., but for all of you who missed that round, I bring you "yet another look (or two)"...
: Sweet dreams, France
_____________
I love this one too, France. It's the one from which I made my embossed picture.
Amy
Posted by Anne on November 05, 1996 at 22:24:20:
: ___________________
: I read somewhere that Borders has it. I don't know if that is a national chain or not. They are in the SFO Bay area anyway. I got copy the other day for my mother for X-mas at an independent book store here in the Bay Area (Printer's Inc) for 21.95 + 10% discount. The price of the book in the U.K. is 10 pounds which is about $15-16 so the US price is certainly a lot higher, but well worth the price IMHO.
:
: ___________________
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If Borders has it, they have just started carrying it. I got mine through a friend in Canada for $15 (US) - $20 (Canadian). Definitely worth the price and twice the cost.
Anne
Posted by Inko on November 05, 1996 at 22:26:08:
:
: : Jonathan Firth, isn't that Colin Firth's brother ?
:
: ___________________
: I believe Jonathan Firth is his brother, though check the Firth FAQ just to be sure. I know there are Firths out there mistakenly thought to be related, but which aren't.
: Cordially,
: Raphael
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Jonathan Firth is Colin's younger brother. Colin also has a younger sister,Kate, who is apparently also involved in acting. Peter Firth is NOT related (completely different set of parents) although in a book about Masterpiece Theatre they said Peter and Colin were brothers. I think Julian Firth (seen in the Cadfael series) may be Peter's brother.
Does anyone know Jonathan's age? He looks so very young in Middlemarch and in a Cadfael episode - maybe there's ten years between Colin and Jonathan.
Inko
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 22:29:41:
: Amy:
: Should we do a seperate list? But maybe not til after the first of the year? My ISP is going to kill me.
___________________
Which reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask - does your ISP charge you by the kilobyte for storage? When things go nuts in here and we lay almost 200 messages on them withing a 24 hour period, does it cost you $? (I know that my ISP would charge me if I had more than 5 MB in my directory.) If so, is there some way that we can help with this?
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 22:29:51:
: Amy:
: Should we do a seperate list? But maybe not til after the first of the year? My ISP is going to kill me.
___________________
Which reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask - does your ISP charge you by the kilobyte for storage? When things go nuts in here and we lay almost 200 messages on them withing a 24 hour period, does it cost you $? (I know that my ISP would charge me if I had more than 5 MB in my directory.) If so, is there some way that we can help with this?
Joan, too
Posted by Terese on November 05, 1996 at 22:30:06:
: minor, minor things that have bothered me.
: The second nit is that Jane, in her first letter, refers to the Gardiner children as her nieces and nephews. Aren't they her cousins??
: Linda
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One thing that bothers me is when the Gardiner's arrive at LBourne at Christmas, their children aren't with them. Did they really leave their young children home alone for the holiday?
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on November 05, 1996 at 22:35:09:
: Could you guys please tell me what I'm missing? I just can't get interested in Middlemarch. In fact, I can't even get half way through the book without being totally bored. What don't I get? Some people have told me that you either like George Elliot, or you don't. Is that true? If you guys (whose taste in literature is to be admired) tell me that it's really worth it, I will endeavour to read it, otherwise, I'd rather watch grass grow.
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Terese -- can't really help you with Middlemarch (either viewing or reading). Heard good things but haven't tackled it myself. However, I was the same way about Gone with the Wind -- I forced myself to finish reading it though I hated every minute and I can't stand the movie. I am a very laid-back, mellow person but while reading and watching (though I only got through the first half of the movie) the possibility of enjoyment was overcome by the urge to slap Scarlet silly. She was such an irritating character to me that I didn't care what happened to her as long as she was gone. (sorry, got on a tangient)
Anne
Posted by Anna on November 05, 1996 at 22:36:28:
: : When I first saw the scene where he heads for Lambton the next morning, I thought it was to ask Lizzie and the Gardner's to be his houseguests. Would that have been proper at the time? I read the book so long ago I don't remember. What did it say?
: : Tipper
:
: _________
: That is an interesting thought, since he so enjoyed seeing Lizzy at Pemberley. I don't know if it would have been considered proper for the party to move in. I couldn't help thinking the same, even when he asked her where she was staying that first day after his swim. Go ahead, just move in right now and be done with it. But then we would have missed the remaining half of the story. The book does not seem to imply what his intentions were for the surprise visit to the inn, so they are left to us to interpret.
: : Janet
: __________
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When daydreaming I like to think about what could have happened if Lydia hadn't intervened...
Darcy 'just happening' to run into the Gardiners and Lizzy on their walk... another dinner invitation... visits between Georgiana and Lizzy... the Gardiners extending their stay several times, until business calls Mr Gardiner home... *then* Lizzy being invited (by Georgiana, to preserve the proprieties) to stay... increasing amity and intimacy between Lizzy and Darcy...
I'm sure they would have got together even without the Lydia episode giving Darcy his chance to shine,
Anna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Janet on November 05, 1996 at 22:39:13:
: : He must have concluded somehow that Darcy was succuming to the charms of Elizabeth. But he had not communication with Darcy to really be sure. By marrying Lydia he felt he may have a chance to form a lasting tie to the Darcy money. But if D & E never married he would be strapped with one very tormenting and silly wife. Or is he just an addicted seducer?
: : : : : ___________________
: : ...Lydia very likely invited herself along. It would appear that Wickham just took advantage of her forwardness to have a fling. Wickham told Darcy that he had never intended to marry Lydia.
: : : : : Joan, too
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : Why Lydia? My perspective on that was, as far as Wickham went, that yes, he did have to leave the regiment, but that he asked Lydia to go with him, not the other way around. When he had to leave, he decided that he wanted some female company to come along with him. The obvious choice was Lydia. I don't think that he knew exactly where things stood with Elizabeth and Darcy. I think he sensed that Elizabeth's attitude toward Darcy had changed, but remember, only Jane knew that Darcy had proposed while Elizabeth stayed with the Collins'. Wickham couldn't know that Darcy would be willing to save Lydia in order to marry Elizabeth.
: : : Annie
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : I think he did it partially, if not subconsciously, to get back at Lizzy ( Do you think Lydia could zip her lip about a chance to show up her older sisters? And do you think Wickham would resist a chance to stick it to someone who no longer trusted his world?) for brushing him off, and partially because he couldn't resist a romp with a willing victim. The guy is obviously out of control, with his drinking, gambling, debts, and past sexual indiscretions. The situation presented itself, so he went with it.
: : I'm not sure I agree with the idea that he did it to get back at Darcy, or to link himself to the Darcy fortune (he wasn't planning on marrying Lydia!), but he may have been thinking that Darcy would try to bribe him into marrying Lydia if he ran off with her. Still, how would he know that Darcy was that smitten by Elizabeth? I agree with Annie here. From Lizzy's behaviour, he could deduce that she had softened towards Darcy, but how can he know the extent of Darcy's own feelings for Elizabeth?
: : - K
:
: ___________________
:
: I've know men like Wickham (I'm so sorry to say). I really feel that his motives were very simple. He needed to hide out from his creditors, for who knows how long. Lydia appeared to be a "fun date". Why not take her with him, and dump her when it was time to move on.
: - Candace
__________
Wickham seems to be the type who longs for control, by whatever means available - lies, manipulation, deception. Lizzy could not see through him at first either, so perhaps Lydia was likewise fooled, as apparently were many before her. As I recall a previous presidential candidate's claim, "There is a pattern here." (Does anyone remember that - on election eve?)
: Janet_________
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