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Posted by Mich on November 05, 1996 at 00:26:09:
:
: : : 
Oh, who am I trying to kid anyway by not posting. I could no more have an idea for a quick graphic and not act on it than I could slam the door in Mr Darcy's face.
: : : What do you think we are rated here? PG-13?
: : : Amy
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Sounds good to me.
: : ciao Donna
: ___________________
: I think, since I don't even recall seeing bad language here, that a PG would suffice. (I've seen naked people and heard cursing on PG movies!) We'd probably rate a G.
: The worst you'll probably see here is some TRULY AWFUL SPELLING, occasional hormonal rantings, occasional lusty lingo (implying lusty longings) and some good-humored teasing (the okay kind).
: ::Tommye
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I think the Daggy thread alone moves us into the PG-13 rating. luckily that as bad as we get.
Mich
Posted by Candace on November 05, 1996 at 00:27:53:
: He must have concluded somehow that Darcy was succuming to the charms of Elizabeth. But he had not communication with Darcy to really be sure. By marrying Lydia he felt he may have a chance to form a lasting tie to the Darcy money. But if D & E never married he would be strapped with one very tormenting and silly wife. Or is he just an addicted seducer?
: : : : ___________________
: ...Lydia very likely invited herself along. It would appear that Wickham just took advantage of her forwardness to have a fling. Wickham told Darcy that he had never intended to marry Lydia.
: : : : Joan, too
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : Why Lydia? My perspective on that was, as far as Wickham went, that yes, he did have to leave the regiment, but that he asked Lydia to go with him, not the other way around. When he had to leave, he decided that he wanted some female company to come along with him. The obvious choice was Lydia. I don't think that he knew exactly where things stood with Elizabeth and Darcy. I think he sensed that Elizabeth's attitude toward Darcy had changed, but remember, only Jane knew that Darcy had proposed while Elizabeth stayed with the Collins'. Wickham couldn't know that Darcy would be willing to save Lydia in order to marry Elizabeth.
: : Annie
:
: ___________________
:
: I think he did it partially, if not subconsciously, to get back at Lizzy ( Do you think Lydia could zip her lip about a chance to show up her older sisters? And do you think Wickham would resist a chance to stick it to someone who no longer trusted his world?) for brushing him off, and partially because he couldn't resist a romp with a willing victim. The guy is obviously out of control, with his drinking, gambling, debts, and past sexual indiscretions. The situation presented itself, so he went with it.
: I'm not sure I agree with the idea that he did it to get back at Darcy, or to link himself to the Darcy fortune (he wasn't planning on marrying Lydia!), but he may have been thinking that Darcy would try to bribe him into marrying Lydia if he ran off with her. Still, how would he know that Darcy was that smitten by Elizabeth? I agree with Annie here. From Lizzy's behaviour, he could deduce that she had softened towards Darcy, but how can he know the extent of Darcy's own feelings for Elizabeth?
: - K
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I've know men like Wickham (I'm so sorry to say). I really feel that his motives were very simple. He needed to hide out from his creditors, for who knows how long. Lydia appeared to be a "fun date". Why not take her with him, and dump her when it was time to move on.
- Candace
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tipper on November 05, 1996 at 00:29:06:
: : : : : proposing in Lambton;
: : : : I'm inclined to think that it would have been to soon for him to propose again
: : : : Anna.
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : I agree with you. I don't think that Darcy purposly went to the Inn wanting to propose again. I think that it was just a matter that Lizzie was so near and he needed to be with her. ...
: : : -Candace
: :
: : ___________________
: : We would have missed Darcy taking her hand, such a personal and sentimental thing to do, sigh!! I still wonder why her was in such a hurry to get to her that morning. She had plans with the Gardiner's???
: : -Dina
:
: ___________________
: I agree with Candace - he just couldn't stay away from her.
: Anna.
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When I first saw the scene where he heads for Lambton the next morning, I thought it was to ask Lizzie and the Gardner's to be his houseguests. Would that have been proper at the time? I read the book so long ago I don't remember. What did it say?
Tipper
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 00:29:44:
: : The second nit is that Jane, in her first letter, refers to the Gardiner children as her nieces and nephews. Aren't they her cousins??
: : Linda
:
: ___________________
: The cousin thing bothered me for awhile too. I just figured that since there was such a large age difference, back then, they were more like nieces and nephews than cousins.
: Stefanie
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This one really bothers me, too! It really makes no sense any way that I can think of. I have cousins who have neices and nephews who are older than they are - but it doesn't change the relationship. They don't become siblings or cousins just because they are comtemporaries. Where is the Mysterious H.C. lately? Maybe he knows of a resource to explain this?
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Eric on November 05, 1996 at 00:30:51:
: : :
: : : Depends on whether or not you like port.
: : I do - if it's good port, and in winter (or any time of the year in England).
: :
: : :If you've never had it, don't. Stick to starboard.
: : : Eric
: :
: : ___________________
: : ?? what's starboard ??
: : Anna (posting from subtropical Australia)
:
: ___________________
: OK OK - after 2 cups of coffee now I get it... and here was I thinking starboard was an exotic US liqour!
: Anna
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Sorry. Perhaps I should have announced it and written something more like: "<BAD PUN COMING!> Stick to starboard." That way people would have known before coffee. ;->
Posted by Candace on November 05, 1996 at 00:37:55:
: Hi. I am sorry I am one more Ann, kind of. I am 14 and just read P&P. I asked my mom if this was an okay place to read messages and she looked at it and wasn't sure. This morning I asked her again and she said she had a god idea. That I should ask you if you would want your 14 old dauhters in here. She said she thought you seemed like nice people. That she would consider what you think about it. Thank you.
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Hi Anika --
I need your opinion. I have a son that's 13. No way will he read or watch Jane Austen. I keep telling him that he needs to just give it a chance -- then talk to the girls at school about it -- He would then be adored by them all. He thinks that I'm nuts. Am I?
- Candace
Posted by Mich on November 05, 1996 at 00:49:20:
: : : : : But that really was a bit early for Georgiana to be leaving the party - it was not yet completely dark outside when the Gardiner's carriage departed.
: : : : : Joan, too
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : :
: : : : Maybe Georgianna chose to take her leave since the only ones left for her to visit with were the Bingley sisters. (Ugh!)
: : : : -Candace
: : : This episode is occurring close to midsummer, when it isn't completely dark until 11pm in Northern England - not late to bed, but not indecently early either. Avoiding the Bingley sisters would been an added plus.
: : : Anna
: :
: : ___________________
: : But, she should have been there--she was the hostess!
: : Perhaps she was attending to the rest of the "large party of friends" ;-).
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: Could we let her off the hook by saying she was attending the call of nature?
: Hilary
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Perfect response Hilary!
Mich
Posted by Candace on November 05, 1996 at 00:49:40:
: : : The second nit is that Jane, in her first letter, refers to the Gardiner children as her nieces and nephews. Aren't they her cousins??
: : : Linda
: :
: : ___________________
: : The cousin thing bothered me for awhile too. I just figured that since there was such a large age difference, back then, they were more like nieces and nephews than cousins.
: : Stefanie
:
: ___________________
: This one really bothers me, too! It really makes no sense any way that I can think of. I have cousins who have neices and nephews who are older than they are - but it doesn't change the relationship. They don't become siblings or cousins just because they are comtemporaries. Where is the Mysterious H.C. lately? Maybe he knows of a resource to explain this?
: Joan, too
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We were raised that anyone older than ourselves (meaning we were kids and the other was an adult), wheather it was a family friend, cousin, second cousin, etc. were always referred as Aunt or Uncle.
- Candace
Posted by Ann on November 05, 1996 at 01:07:13:
Whether you are a Democrat, Republican, Reformist, Independant, Communist, Green, Natural Law, Socialist, or LaRoucher get out and
VOTE TODAY
In my opinion, if you don't vote you lose the right to complain about the government you didn't bother to vote on.
Ann
Posted by Candace on November 05, 1996 at 01:09:29:
Just a reminder -- Don't forget to vote. After all it is a man's world until women vote!
Posted by Raphael on November 05, 1996 at 01:32:04:
Everyone,
I spent part of the weekend immersed in the second-most pleasurable
mini-series: Middlemarch (I am sure you can guess what the first
most pleasurable mini-series is). Either the UK, the BBC, or the
London theatrical scene is a very small crew -- Middlemarch is
another indelible link in our chain of personages. Robert Hardy
(Sir John from S&S, General Tilney from NA), Elizabeth Spriggs
(Mrs. Jennings from S&S), Jonathan Firth, and screenwriter Andrew
Davies. All these and likely more in the series to link.
This was my second viewing, the first on videotape, and what
a marvelous series it is! It, like P&P2, grows on repeated viewings,
a sure sign of lasting strength. I should very much like to talk about
it here on the BB. I think it has much to associate it with P&P2.
Perhaps we could schedule a virtual viewing together once the Read and
View business of P&P2 is all wrapped up? I am sure many of us have already
seen it, but I think it might prove very amusing to all watch it 'together'.
Cordially,
Raphael
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on November 05, 1996 at 01:45:32:
Oh, who am I trying to kid anyway by not posting. I could no more have an idea for a quick graphic and not act on it than I could slam the door in Mr Darcy's face.
: What do you think we are rated here? PG-13?
: Amy
___________________
I'm glad we won't lose you so easily, Amy.
A PG-13 rating is about right, I think. Then again, I know some 13-year-olds who are a lot more experienced than I am, and would find this board tame.
Sometimes our panting for Mr. Darcy gets a little hot and heavy, but we always express ourselves with the utmost propriety!
I would like to think, too, that this is a place where P&P addicts of any age can come and be healed. I think it's great that it's become a mother/daughter activity for some. Maybe that's an answer, Anika. Has your mother read P&P? Have you both watched the film? Both of you can join in! Double the fun for you and us!
-Arnessa
Posted by Ann2 on November 05, 1996 at 01:53:05:
: Hello, everyone. I have just been kicked off the Austen-L for daring to suggest that the list manager shouldn't automatically exclude all AOL and Prodigy accounts just because one or two people from AOL and/or Prodigy were pests on the list.
: I must say that I actually loved P&P1 -- the one with D. Rintoul and E. Garvie --,too. Does that make me a bad person?
: Julie
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Hello Julie, sounds dramatic, would you please enligthen me on those subjects AOL and Prodigy as I have not the slightest idea of what they stand for and their ever being taken in such a way. (I am not from the US) It must be tough over there. I am
trying to gather courage enough (and money for the purchase of one internet connection with pc at home) to dare to join the Austen-L at least as a lurker. I donīt seem to get enough of Jane A. This is a deligthful place I can assure you. I believe after six weeks that the only punishment if you say the wrong thing here is silence.
Best wishes (for years P&P1 was a bright memory for me until Colin and Jennifer appeared and took over)
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 02:04:55:
Interesting how differently these few seconds of film can be interpreted! And how the progression of Lizzie's and Darcy's feelings over a span of 3 days in the book can take place quite fully in the film in just these same few seconds.
: : Bernie:
: : When Elizabeth has rebuffed Caroline and goes to protect Georgiana, she lifts up her eyes shyly, to look at Darcy, and it seems to me that she is seeking Darcy's approval. It is almost as if she is asking "Did I handle the situation correctly ?"
: Anna:
: I can't see Lizzy as shy - I thought she was giving him a look of complicity (is that a recognised word?), she and Darcy both know and are together engaged in concealing Georgiana's involvement with and distress over Wickham.
She feels him looking at her and slowly lifts up her eyes. And indeed, he is looking, and with what a look! And for the first time he does not look away as he has done so often in the past when she has caught him watching her. He meets her eyes. He is not thinking of Georgiana now.
: : Bernie:
: : Darcy then gives her that half smile, indicating that he is very well pleased with the way that Elizabeth dealt with Caroline's snidiness (sp?). She then looks at him with that lovely smile as if to say "There don't worry about it any longer, I do care about you and your sister".
: Anna:
: Enough to protect Georgiana, who comes across as a very engaging girl. However it's a long step from this to being in love with Darcy.
She takes a step back from the piano She is no longer thinking of Georgiana, either. She does not avoid his gaze, but smiles back at him.
We are slipping into a time-warp vis-a-vis the book; on the evening before the visit to Pemberley:
As for Elizabeth, her thoughts were at Pemberley this evening more than the last; and the evening, though as it passed it seemed long, was not long enough to determine her feelings towards one in that mansion. [details of her thought process snipped - Chapter 44 if you want to read them] She respected, she esteemed, she was grateful to him, she felt a real interest in his welfare, and she only wanted to know how far she wished that welfare to depend upon herself, and how far it would be for the happiness of both that she should employ the power,which her fancy told her she still posessed, of bringing on the renewal of his addresses.
: : Bernie:
: : We then see Darcy looking beatifically at Lizzie (the look). After all he is in paradise! He is at home, with his sister and with the woman who has shown that she does have some feeling towards him after all -- he senses there is definitely hope for him yet.
: Anna:
: As I've said I think Lizzy is motivated mainly by concern for G at this point - and maybe by a very natural desire to squash Miss Bingley whenever possible. It is also a very encouraging moment for Darcy.
___________________
The Look... They are now alone together in the room. For this moment, nothing and nobody else matters. Neither is certain where this is going to go, but both are, at this moment wondering, even hoping...
Later, after his guests are gone, Darcy revisits the music room. He reviews the moment in his mind. We can see, though, that he is not sure what is in her mind. In his memory, her expression is ambiguous, not smiling as we had observed it. But it is enough to cause him to rise early and ride off to Lambton hoping to catch Lizzie before she and the Gardiners begin on their planned activities for the day. He needs a reality check. After all, he was badly burned the last time he entertained these intentions...
But the post comes and reality is suddenly changed. While Lizzie had believed it within her power to bring on a renewal of his addresses if she decided that she wished to, Darcy's "wish of procuring her regard, which she had assured herself of his feeling in Derbyshire, could not in rational expectation survive such a blow as this."
Joan, too
Posted by Ann2 on November 05, 1996 at 02:10:10:
:
: :
: ___________________
: I think the Netherfield dog (whether Dalmation or Great Dane) was probably Bingley's dog - why would Darcy travel with his dogs; he'd probably leave them at Pemberley.
___________________
Donīt you think the dogs might be used for hunting? In that case at least D would want his own. And maybe for company; he had no Lizzy to comfort him ( and brigthen his life) then.
Ann2
Posted by Hilary on November 05, 1996 at 02:11:04:
: :
: : : Another book everyone is talking about is 'The Rules', a how-to-secure-a-man bible. I want to get it and see what all the fuss is about... and of course, see how it applies to Lizzy, Jane, Lydia and Charlotte. That could make for a fun discussion. Anyone out there read this one?????
: : : Grace
: :
: : ___________________
: : I've heard of this, but I don't think its reached the antipodes yet. I think the other one that someone mentioned in an aside, 'Men from Mars, Women from Venus', is here, but I can't bring myself to look at it yet. I prefer to consider gender as a continuum from female through to male, and people take their place somewhere along that line, rather than seeing it as entirely opposing forces and worlds. But no doubt I am jumping to conclusions from the book's title and I should actually address this prejudice by reading some of it.
: : Hilary
:
: ___________________
:
: : My philosophy is much the same as yours. These books are interesting, but I would not take them too seriously.
: Unfortunately, many women (including some friends of mine) are flocking to Rules seminars in hopes of finding the path to Mr. Right. The way I understand some of the basics... such as never returning calls, never accepting dates after Wednesday for the weekend.....Charlotte and Lydia, who were into accepting in general, could use a seminar or two.
___________________
Yes! they could!
My God, Rules seminars!!! That's serious and desperate stuff. Just out of curiosity are your friends of an age?
Hilary
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 02:19:11:
: : : You weren't gone very long. It is a good thing because I didn't say good bye. Good bye, like your hat. Hello, like your graphic. Anyway you can't forget the missings scenes. P-G 13 usually means bad language doesn't in all forms.
: : : ciao Donna
: : : P.S. Go dogs Go Dr. Suess
: : ___________________
: :
: : Donna, my dear,
: : Have you ever considered a warning label for yourself? If you can see the graphic, why have I been fooling around with it for a 1/2 hour? I can't see it. This happened to Henry once and everybody else could see it but him. I am going to bed. I am only 42 and need my rest.
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: Oh sorry I had no idea what you were trying to do.
: It was there the first time you put it in.
: Donna
___________________
Not on my browser - it said document had no data???
Joan, too
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 02:35:31:
: : Anbody notice that Caroline says that Darcy made the comment "one night after they were dining at Netherfield"?? The comment actually came after the Assembly dance. Perhaps we can allow Caroline a bad memory or the producers a shift in filming part way through.
: : Nancy
:
: ___________________
: Here Davies was quoting Austen. Perhaps he hadn't noticed the mismatch, or perhaps it would have been too difficult to change Austen's line to fit P&P2.
: Ann
___________________
It would have been quite simple to say "that evening after the Meryton Assembly". That one should not have got by the script and/or continuity people if Davies did goof.
Jaon, too
Posted by Joan, too on November 05, 1996 at 02:44:25:
: Also, there's the fact that even while you may love your family members, you don't choose them, and often you don't mesh perfectly with them. I guess finding the right mate is a way to compensate for a misfit family, but, unfortunately, most people in Austen's day and many today don't find that that's the case.
: - K
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As Lizzie says: "There are few people whom I really love and even fewer of whom I think well. The more I see of the world the more I am dissatisfied with it."
Joan, too
Posted by Hilary on November 05, 1996 at 02:46:35:
Colin wasn't at the presentation ceremony, but he gave a very witty acceptance speech from a poolside in LA.
: Bernie
___________________
Bernie, I have to ask: was he wet?
Hilary
Follow Ups:
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