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Posted by Eric on November 04, 1996 at 15:04:48:
: Amy Dear,
: Thanks for the warning! My heart sank when I saw the title of your message, and I am so glad it's not a full good-bye. As Mr. Bennet's favorite son-in-law would say, Au revoir!
: Jane A.
Maybe, while you're gone, we might all take a nap.
Posted by Bernie on November 04, 1996 at 15:09:53:
: : : I have been trying to sort this dog thing out - hesitant to call it doggy. The dog in the gallery seems so thin and like a race dog. The netherfield one is big indeed, dalmatiner?. And is the one on the floor big to?
: : : I thought I saw the same big one in a film made on Burnettīs Little Lord Fauntleroy recently. Maybe a famous and good-natured Brittish movie dog!? Sorry if I take the magic away.
: : : Ann2
: : ___________________
: : The Netherfield dog is indeed a dalmatian, and it looks as if the pair in the gallery and the one in the floor might be greyhounds, though the lighting is poor in the gallery and they are on camera so briefly. Greyhounds were considered to be "the epitome of elegance and grace among canines."
: : Joan, too
: It doesn't look like a dalmation it face is to big, it looks more like a spotted great dane.I am sure there is another name. Dalmation have a narrow face and have shorter legs.
: ciao Donna
I think it might well be an Irish setter (though I'm no canine expert). His hair is too long for it to be a Dalmation.
Posted by Hilary on November 04, 1996 at 15:16:45:
: : I am sure this has previously been discussed, but please bear with me. I have joined in only one before and didn't find you until recently.
: : After Darcy gives Lizzy the letter on the grounds at Rosing and she returns, Maria tells her-when she returns- that both Darcy and Fitzwilliam had called on her while she was gone. Maria says that Darcy left shortly, but Fitzwilliam stayed on for over a half hour. In the book, he contemplates going out to look for her.
: : Do you suppose that Fitzwilliam stayed on to smooth over "spilling the beans" to Lizzy re: Jane and Bingley and Darcy's part in it, or that he simply enjoyed her company so much that he wished to tell her goodby?. That Jane-one more time, she leaves a lot up to us to think about and to consider!
: Though Fitzwilliam is probably smart enough to know that
: something happened between Darcy and Lizzy the previous
: night, he still would not have a clue that he contributed to
: it. He still doesn't know that Bingley's lady friend was
: Lizzy's sister; this is not something Darcy would have
: I think that Darcy may have asked Fitzwilliam to try to speak
: to Lizzy alone and to answer any questions she might ask--
: no matter what they might be, but I doubt that he was any more
: explicit than that.
: Of course Fitz. did also have a hankering for Lizzy too, so
: he may have not wanted to leave without saying good-bye.
I've always been surprised that Darcy fronted up to say goodbye at all, considering all that had happened - hence Lizzie's incredulous "Mr. Darcy called here?". Maybe it was just good manners, but I sometimes wonder if he wanted to see if his letter had possibly had some affect that could give him hope to go away with. I think he had asked Col Fitz. to lurk in case Lizzie wanted to confirm anything in the letter, though I don't think he would have given Fitz much detail. And I also wonder if, in retrospect Lizzie saw his turning up to say goodbye as more proof of his love.
Posted by Cheryl on November 04, 1996 at 15:29:15:
: "I'd soon rather call her mother a wit".
: There is absolutely no denying its supreme rudeness, but I cannot help just the same loving that statment . . . and the way he says it. Darcy is so casual, leaning against the fireplace, looking down nonchantly (stirring up the fire?) while he gives one of his pert remarks - something to rival even Lizzie's! Don't get me wrong - I love Lizzie dearly, yet just the same, I cannot help but love that remark. It came so fluent, as if it hardly required a second thought! But, oh, how he will soon regret it!
: Any other comments/disagreements?
I too, smile when I hear this remark, and I also like Miss Bingley's sneering "Oh Mr. Darcy, you are too cruel" accompanied by her Simon Legree snicker. Hate to admit that Caroline and I both have the same sense of humor, but in some cases it is too true.
Posted by Cheryl on November 04, 1996 at 15:36:22:
: I've always been surprised that Darcy fronted up to say goodbye at all, considering all that had happened - hence Lizzie's incredulous "Mr. Darcy called here?". Maybe it was just good manners, but I sometimes wonder if he wanted to see if his letter had possibly had some affect that could give him hope to go away with. I think he had asked Col Fitz. to lurk in case Lizzie wanted to confirm anything in the letter, though I don't think he would have given Fitz much detail. And I also wonder if, in retrospect Lizzie saw his turning up to say goodbye as more proof of his love.
I think Darcy's calling to take his leave was more good manners than anything. He didn't want to see her and was releved when she wasn't in- perhaps he even made the call then because he thought she would still be out on her walk and reading his letter? But to not call would have been unthinkable socially and would have drawn much more attention and speculation than he wanted.
Posted by Rebecca on November 04, 1996 at 15:37:40:
: At the risk of being labelled blasphemous, I propose a response to the issue of Lizzy as a survivor.(snipped)
: This theory holds that Lizzy did not stick to her principles, but actually succumbed to the pressures of men and society to marry - and marry well, per the ultimate aspiration. By so doing, she gave up her freedom, independence and subjected herself to the power of a man who was stronger than herself and, for that matter, stronger than her father or any other man she has ever known. This may be give way to the idea that after their marriage, Darcy reverted to his previous proud and powerful persona and tried to take control over her.(snipped)
: The idea that Lizzy was more akin to a son than a daughter is supported by her closeness to her father, rather than to her mother and the other sillier women in the story. (snipped)
: While we all love Lizzy, and I daresay who could not adore Darcy, perhaps there is something in this mumbo-jumbo?
: : Janet
Having looked at the responses to this thread, all make good points, but you are definitely bringing up ideas that many critics of the novel do point out--that when Lizzie looks at Darcy's picture at Pemberley and her general reaction to him from this time on, she is reacting to the "strong male", because her father had shown himself to have abdicated that position in relation to her family. Also, the critics point out that while there is a little information in the last chapter about their marriage, the reason Jane Austen did not continue any of her novels is that, given the realities of marriage in her day, it might be too painful to see the heroines "dwindle into wives" (I believe the quote is from Lionel Trilling). While I personally think Darcy would not be a tyrannical husband, there is no doubt that legal and societal conventions would give him tremendous power over Elizabeth, and he is used to command(!). I can see some real conflict down the line between Elizabeth's personality and habits and Darcy's interest in having a wife who behaved quite conventionally in many instances. He would not have to hold that that he married beneath his station over Elizabeth--she would always be aware of it. What does anyone think?
Posted by Cheryl on November 04, 1996 at 15:39:45:
: I was eating lunch yesterday at Au Bon Pain, a fast food sandwich place, when I suddenly felt very tranquil, despite the fact that my 2-year old lunch companion is not especially genteel. Then it hit me---on the piped-in music, Voi Che Sapete was playing---the song Lizzie sings at Pemberley. The Look! Sigh. I felt momentarily transported. I wish I'd had some BB friends there to share the moment---and I suspect you would all have been less likely than my little girl to spill chili on me. Coincidence, or is everyone taking advantage of Austen-mania? If so: more, please.
: Jane A.
Along a similar vein; when someone posted "The Look" picture, I could hear running through my mind Voi Che Sapete! Will I ever be able to hear it again and *not* think of Darcy?
Posted by Cheryl on November 04, 1996 at 15:42:47:
: Mr dear fellow addicts,
: I'll only be half here for a couple of weeks. Will delete posts and keep up the archive, watch for porn, but not post and think as a participant or take the time to make funny pictures and welcome newcomers and stuff like that. Any hobby time I have must go to rebabilitate my other sadly neglected site, the World Nap Organization, since it will be mentioned in the December issue of Glamour. Back with you wholeheartedly as soon as that is accomplished and I meet a couple real work deadlines.
Amy, congrats on the Glamour mention. The WNO is a great site and well deserving of greater publicity.
Posted by Dina on November 04, 1996 at 15:47:13:
: : I thought Darcy was more hurried than taking care in dressing to ride to Lambton,
Why was he in such a hurry to get to Lambton? What did he hope to do there, just invite her to dinner? She didn't seem to have morning plans that included him, or were his actions the modern equivelent of a 12 year old boy riding his bike past a girls house to see if she'll come out.
Also, if Lizzy was still not sure about her feelings toward D why did she care that she "will never see him again"? I think she was working towards affection (note her comment, shollow as it sounds, to Jane in beginning a feeling for him "after seeing his lovely grounds at Pemberly")but that the 2 weeks in Lambton wouldn't be enough for her, but it would be interesting to see how far he could have gotten with her. Then the whole return to Meryton etc. I think there's a story there.
Posted by Linda on November 04, 1996 at 15:48:13:
: This is really more of a response to the entire thread rather than to just your comments. Most of these minor discrepancies I had already noticed, though some I had not. It is interesting to note how deeply all of us wish P&P2 were even better than it was, ferreting out even its most insignificant flaws. But along these lines, I have a more philosophical question:
: Is a thing of beauty (such as P&P2) rendered more beautiful by its imperfections, less beautiful, or have they no effect?
: Personally, I am not prepared for perfect beauty for it shows forth my own decided want in that regard and inspires in me not appreciation, but resentment. Perhaps I am perversely egotistical. Nevertheless, as I watch the movie and read the book, I am finding them more approachable as I see them wanting of absolute perfection.
There are two minor, minor things that have bothered me. I think that I have talked myself out of one of them.
JA, during her narration, always calls our heroine Elizabeth. The family, parents, sisters, aunt, uncle always call her Lizzy. Friends and acquaintances, the Lucases and Miss Bingley, call her Eliza. In P&P2, the Lucases always say Lizzy. Since they are close and fond friends, this makes a good contrast to Caroline Bingley's "Eliza".
The second nit is that Jane, in her first letter, refers to the Gardiner children as her nieces and nephews. Aren't they her cousins??
Posted by Donna on November 04, 1996 at 15:50:41:
: : : I agree with you Paula that the extra scenes with Darcy make him much more human than he would have been - also much more sexy. Did anyone else notice the dogs lying by the door of his room while he's getting dressed - I really liked that touch.
: : Yes - it also resonates nicely with Lizzy playing with the dog at Netherfield.
: : Anna
The one that Lizzie is playing with is a Harlequin Dane with uncropped ears.
: I have been trying to sort this dog thing out - hesitant to call it doggy. The dog in the gallery seems so thin and like a race dog. The netherfield one is big indeed, dalmatiner?. And is the one on the floor big to?
: I thought I saw the same big one in a film made on Burnettīs Little Lord Fauntleroy recently. Maybe a famous and good-natured Brittish movie dog!? Sorry if I take the magic away.
Posted by Nancy R on November 04, 1996 at 15:51:08:
"I should as soon call her mother a wit"
Yes the Big D was nasty here. It makes fun of Mrs. B. as
well. Hey, but it does come back on Darcy. After E.B. has
left Pemb after the dinner/music scene, the evil Caroline
quotes it back to him. He is uncomfortable about the old remark, but makes up for it: "It is many months now since I have considered her one of the handsomest women of my acquaintance".
Anbody notice that Caroline says that Darcy made the comment "one night after they were dining at Netherfield"?? The comment actually came after the Assembly dance. Perhaps we can allow Caroline a bad memory or the producers a shift in filming part way through.
Posted by Cheryl on November 04, 1996 at 15:53:18:
: Ever since I noticed it, Firth's twitch when Ehle says "You
: know him too well to doubt the rest" has bothered me. If you
: don't notice it, it seems natural, but if you see it, it
: seems like an actor's trick. (One small complaint in an
: otherwise wonderful performance.)
I like the twitch, although I see it more as a flinch, almost as if he had been slapped in the face. I think this is exactly how Darcy took it, as a rebuke, although Lizzy didn't mean it that way, of course.
Posted by Cheryl on November 04, 1996 at 15:59:47:
: Someone should have told that to Mr. and Mrs. Bennet where it regards Lydia!!!!
It does not appear that Lydia needed too much encouragement to go to bed!
Posted by Dina on November 04, 1996 at 16:02:20:
: : : proposing in Lambton;
: : I'm inclined to think that it would have been to soon for him to propose again
: : Anna.
: I agree with you. I don't think that Darcy purposly went to the Inn wanting to propose again. I think that it was just a matter that Lizzie was so near and he needed to be with her. Every time I watch the scene where Lizzie asks her aunt and uncle if they would mind if she stayed to read her letters, I still continue to scream at the TV -- "NO DON'T READ THEM YET. YOU WILL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME FOR LYDIA'S CRISIS. DARCY'S ON HIS WAY OVER TO SEE YOU. NO! NO! DON'T READ JANE'S LETTERS YET.
We would have missed Darcy taking her hand, such a personal and sentimental thing to do, sigh!! I still wonder why her was in such a hurry to get to her that morning. She had plans with the Gardiner's???
Posted by Cheryl on November 04, 1996 at 16:04:05:
: And That Walk - I also love Darcy's elegant walk through the gallery in the dark with his dogs later in the scene. It's lovely to see how his mind is immersed in thoughts of Lizzy in those solitary moments.
I have long admired Mr. Firth's gait; the long strides, the way his left arm swings out, oh yes, I am excessively attentive to all those things!
Posted by Stefanie on November 04, 1996 at 16:05:56:
: Hi. I am sorry I am one more Ann, kind of. I am 14 and just read P&P. I asked my mom if this was an okay place to read messages and she looked at it and wasn't sure. This morning I asked her again and she said she had a god idea. That I should ask you if you would want your 14 old dauhters in here. She said she thought you seemed like nice people. That she would consider what you think about it. Thank you.
This bulletin board is proabbly one of the best places on the net for you to come. Everyone in our little community is very well-behaved and civilized. When an ocational problem occurs in which some nasty person posts a nasty message here, Amy is quick to delete it and our lives return to the safety of Pride and Prejudice.
I think it's great that your 14 and you already have read Pride and Prejudice. I was 14 when my mother gave it to me to read for the first time and I have been thankful ever since.
I hope to see you posting here soon.
Posted by Grace on November 04, 1996 at 16:06:47:
: : : : : Last night the BBC was celebrating its 60th birthday. As part of the celebrations, awards for all time greats were made. Favourite all time Drama Serial was of course Pride and Prejudice (2). Favourite all time actor ( as voted by over half a million besotted Brits) was Colin Firth. Colin wasn't at the presentation ceremony, but he gave a very witty acceptance speech from a poolside in LA.
: : : : : Bernie
: : : : : PS. His hair has been dyed dark, and the mutton chops are back (although they're not as large as in P&P)! He also gave us one of those SMILES, sigh!
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : :
: : : : : Bernie, you never even gave us a hint that this was firthcoming...excuse me, forthcoming. With just a bit of notice, we all could have gotten satellite dishes and been ready ---- not to mention, some of us chartering flights so as to join you in your living room. Have you no group loyalty??
: : : : Grace
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : Grace,
: : : Actually, I had no idea that this was on myself, until I switched on the box and there he was! The problem is that I don't get home from work 'till around 10.30 pm, so I missed all the fliers for the event.
: : : Incidentally, the National TV awards were held last month (I know this was mentioned on the Firthlist!). P&P2, Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle were all nominated. I got my husband to (try to) video if for me. I know that Colin and Jennifer didn't win, but I've no idea whether P&P 2 won the best drama award. My other half managed to cut this!!! For some inexplicable reason, none of the papers I looked at cited the results. There we have it!
: : : Bernie
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : ___________________
: : : Bernie, you are forgiven.
: : As for your other half, there can be no excuse. Any man who cannot perform the most basic of marital duties.....programming the VCR......is not worth having.
: : With condolences on your choice of husband, Grace
: He's normally very good about that sort of thing. He was in a bit of a rush and stuck in a tape without rewinding it !!
: Oh, alright. He is forgiven,too. I give you leave to stay with him if you must. Grace
Posted by Anna on November 04, 1996 at 16:14:54:
: : I've always been surprised that Darcy fronted up to say goodbye at all, considering all that had happened - hence Lizzie's incredulous "Mr. Darcy called here?".
: I think Darcy's calling to take his leave was more good manners than anything. He didn't want to see her and was releved when she wasn't in- perhaps he even made the call then because he thought she would still be out on her walk and reading his letter?
I'd always assumed Darcy had called to give her the letter, and, finding her out had gone to look for her. It isn't obvious in the video, but in the book we are told that she walked for ~ 2 hours, and only went into the Rosings grounds near the end of her walk.
Posted by Grace on November 04, 1996 at 16:18:08:
: : I've always been surprised that Darcy fronted up to say goodbye at all, considering all that had happened - hence Lizzie's incredulous "Mr. Darcy called here?". Maybe it was just good manners, but I sometimes wonder if he wanted to see if his letter had possibly had some affect that could give him hope to go away with. I think he had asked Col Fitz. to lurk in case Lizzie wanted to confirm anything in the letter, though I don't think he would have given Fitz much detail. And I also wonder if, in retrospect Lizzie saw his turning up to say goodbye as more proof of his love.
: : Hilary
: I think Darcy's calling to take his leave was more good manners than anything. He didn't want to see her and was releved when she wasn't in- perhaps he even made the call then because he thought she would still be out on her walk and reading his letter? But to not call would have been unthinkable socially and would have drawn much more attention and speculation than he wanted.
: I agree with Cheryl. Darcy's call at the parsonage was a necessary formality only.
Getting back to Colonel Fitzwilliam, P&P2 does not play up the interest he took in Lizzy or Darcy's taking note of it. I wonder if the Colonel's walk around the park with Lizzy could have been the last straw for Darcy - especially when the Colonel revealed that he knew of Lizzy's feeling unwell and had seen her safely back to the parsonage ---- much too intimate in Darcy's opinion? Did this help to prompt the proposal?
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