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Posted by France on November 04, 1996 at 10:34:47:
:__________
: : :Pardon, mesdames, the hasty entry of a neo-lurker who just this a.m. happened upon this site. Firthermore, I must add the "rush" of this P&P2 only just entered my life some 14 days ago, when a beneficent fellow instructor lent it to show my classes. Needless to say, all in the classroom audience were agog at the tremendous performances and photogenicity(?) of the main duo. The particular scene(s) that had us entranced are doubtless the same you all thrilled to when A&E first aired it. This musical scene's "looks" brought out some audible sighs from the girls (who until recently most likely had only read dimestore/braindead romance, and nada British, of course)
:
: ___________________
: What was the reaction of the boys during the movie. We don't seem to have male points of view. Except for the ObVIOUS reasons.
: Donna
:_____________________
: Perhaps it is fortunate the class is entirely female, in one sense; they feel freer to talk and emote among their "sisters"...I have taught P&P1 to a coed "advanced placement" class in other years: the lads were suitably impressed with the Austen satiric moments (in book & film) but I'm afraid that production failed to touch off any spark (le) for either female or male audience members.
My husband's reaction, as we viewed P&P2 all one weekend in a tempestuous "one fell swoop," was to at first stay steadfastly at this computer instead (insisting it was going to be a "sappy" kind of thing-- of course, a nonAusten reader!), but as time and the acerbic humor flew by, he found himself first laughing at the soundtrack, then creeping over to the sofa to see "what these persons were about"...I daresay (darcy) the humor may be what taps men on the shoulder first, so to speak, in some cases, to enjoy P&P, but perhaps some women viewers find themselves approaching from the other "feeling" end of the spectrum to enjoy it (as in "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus")(or, for that matter, Darcy from his cerebral sphere to meet Lizzy at the pond (rebirth a la Jung) wandering from her relational orbit)...hmmm: wonder how those two would be in a DH Lawrence number? Provoking thought.
Posted by Ann2 on November 04, 1996 at 10:43:48:
: : For those with the full version of the tapes:
: : I am a bit puzzled by Darcy's body language back at Pemberley
: : after hearing about Lydia and Wickham (just before he so
: : beautifully puts Miss Bingley in her place). His body language
: : is so tight.....
: : Any opinions,
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: I think he is struggling in his own mind regarding what he can do and how it can be done without anyone questioning how he knows about it and why he should be involved at all. He must still come to terms with the feelings that he has always had about keeping his personal affairs private, and now he is going to have to make at least some of them more public.
: Joan, too
___________________
Yes, both for Lizzy´s sake and to enable himself to maybe, maybe marry into that family, he simply has to force Wickham to save Lydia´s reputation. Find Mrs Younge, find Wickham and arrange everything. Contact Mr Gardiner discreetly. And - worrying about Elizabeth, whom he had never before seen so lost and bewildered.
At this moment that rattlesnake of a woman makes her impertinent remark... and he reacts accordingly.
Ann2
Posted by Jane A. on November 04, 1996 at 10:54:11:
I was eating lunch yesterday at Au Bon Pain, a fast food sandwich place, when I suddenly felt very tranquil, despite the fact that my 2-year old lunch companion is not especially genteel. Then it hit me---on the piped-in music, Voi Che Sapete was playing---the song Lizzie sings at Pemberley. The Look! Sigh. I felt momentarily transported. I wish I'd had some BB friends there to share the moment---and I suspect you would all have been less likely than my little girl to spill chili on me. Coincidence, or is everyone taking advantage of Austen-mania? If so: more, please.
Jane A.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on November 04, 1996 at 11:20:13:
: : It's like he is drinking her in -- all of her, as you said, letting her flow over him, happily drowning in her. Maybe there are not words.
I agree with the comments of many who believe he is thinking how pleasant it is to have Georgiana and Lizzy with him at Pemberley. For some reason, I don't know why, I have a notion at the moment he is sitting on the sofa listening, he is only thinking of how nice it is right then, at that minute.
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: You're right, Amy, there probably aren't words to explain those looks. And if there are, Austen is the only one who could write them.
: I also think you're dead-on about Darcy only thinking about the present moment during the music scene. I don't know why I feel that way either. Maybe it's because the kind of happiness that it looks like he's feeling can only be felt in the moment. If you're thinking about the past, or the future, it clouds the present happiness somehow. And Darcy's look of delight is definitely unclouded.
: -Arnessa.
___________________
Remember that only a few days ago he had told himself to "conquer this" and now, what chain of happy things, she likes Pemberley, she is introduced to and seemingly appreciating
his darling sister, whom she protects in a motherly way, her relations are nice people, she plays and sings and looks like an angel and she smiles at him... bliss indeed
Act upon if you can oh lucky man, oh lucky man!
Ann2
Posted by Annie on November 04, 1996 at 11:30:00:
: : : Maybe this has been discussed before I came along but it has
: : : always bothered me why Wickham should single out Lydia. He must
: : : have concluded somehow that Darcy was succuming to the charms of
: : : Elizabeth. But he had not communication with Darcy to really be
: : : sure. By marrying Lydia he felt he may have a chance to form a
: : : lasting tie to the Darcy money. But if D & E never married he would
: : : be strapped with one very tormenting and silly wife. Or is he just
: : : an addicted seducer? The scenes at the inn when Lydia is pleading
: : : to be taken out he seems to be waiting to be discovered by Darcy.
: : : It is all very confusing. Sorry, I haven't taken the time to research
: : : this in the book. Maybe J.A. gives some explanation. Hope you all
: : : can help. Thanks, Shelagh
: :
: : ___________________
: : "Colonel Foster did own that he had often suspected some partiality, especially on Lydia's side, but nothing to give him any alarm." I would not be at all surprised to learn that it was actually Lydia herself who proposed it. Wickham had found himself "obliged to leave the regiment on account of some debts of honor" and Lydia very likely invited herself along. In Mrs. Gardiner's letter to Lizzie she writes that Darcy's "first object with her [Lydia], he acknowledged, had been to persuade her to quit her present disgraceful situation, and return to her friends as soon as they could be prevailed on to receive her, offering his assistance as far as it would go. But he found Lydia absolutely resolved on remaining where she was. She cared for none of her friends, she wanted no help of his, she would not hear of leaving Wickham. She was sure they would be married at some time or other, and it did not much signify when." It would appear that Wickham just took advantage of her forwardness to have a fling. Wickham told Darcy that he had never intended to marry Lydia.
: : Joan, too
:
: ___________________
: Thank you Joan, too that makes a lot of sense. I had forgotten to consider
: Lydia's wiles. From her letter to Mrs. Foster she revealed how proud she was to consider herself
: Mrs. Wickham without any stop at the church planned. It was such a great scandal to be sleeping with a
: man without benefit of clergy. Come to think of it she is the one most like her mother. Do you suppose
: that Mrs. B used some devious means to snare her husband?
___________________
Why Lydia? My perspective on that was, as far as Wickham went, that yes, he did have to leave the regiment, but that he asked Lydia to go with him, not the other way around. Colonel Forster said in his letter that he suspected some partiality on Lydia's part, and none of Wickham's. Wickham is not brilliant, but he is pretty perceptive, and Lydia doesn't know the meaning of the word discretion. It's easy to believe that he knew how Lydia felt about him. When he had to leave, he decided that he wanted some female company to come along with him. The obvious choice was Lydia. I don't think that he knew exactly where things stood with Elizabeth and Darcy. I think he sensed that Elizabeth's attitude toward Darcy had changed, but remember, only Jane knew that Darcy had proposed while Elizabeth stayed with the Collins'. Wickham couldn't know that Darcy would be willing to save Lydia in order to marry Elizabeth.
Annie
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kim on November 04, 1996 at 11:35:14:
How old is the actress that plays Lizzie? Also, is she really singing in the Pemberly piano scene? I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but I am new here.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anika on November 04, 1996 at 11:35:48:
Hi. I am sorry I am one more Ann, kind of. I am 14 and just read P&P. I asked my mom if this was an okay place to read messages and she looked at it and wasn't sure. This morning I asked her again and she said she had a god idea. That I should ask you if you would want your 14 old dauhters in here. She said she thought you seemed like nice people. That she would consider what you think about it. Thank you.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Annie on November 04, 1996 at 11:39:02:
: : Sorry I was no more clear. My question was more aimed at how Jane and Mr. Collins marriage would have affected the progression of Lizzie & Darcy.
: : Please don't think I would wish Mr.C on Jane.
: : To your point
: : I'm sure your right about Lizzie but I'm not so sure about Mr.B. Aside from Mr. Collins being a fool it would have been a respectable match. Since it would have secured the estate should Mr.B die, I can see where Jane may have thought it would make everyone happy and proud.
: : Mich
:
: ___________________
: It would also have simply been hard for Jane to have handled
: his proposal as Lizzy did. It's hard to imagine how Jane
: would have been able to refuse him to his face. Lizzy on the
: other hand had little difficulty.
: Ann
___________________
UGH!!!!! Let's not even think about what might have happened if Lizzy had been forced to accept Mr. Collins' proposal. I keep trying to think of it, and it's not a pretty picture. Since Mr. Collins proposed to Elizabeth before Bingley left Netherfield, it is unlikely that the Bennets would have tried to force Jane into the match, either! No, the logical next choice would have been Mary, and poor thing, he decided to marry Charlotte Lucas instead, although I do wonder something. I remember reading a while back that Mr. Collins, in deciding to marry one of the Bennet girls, thought he was making restitution for inheriting Longbourn. Someone on this BB mentioned that he thought he believed he should get to marry one of the pretty daughters, and that's why he didn't propose to Mary next. Charlotte Lucas is described as not being extremely attractive, which may put her near Mary in looks (although how are we to know, Mary is never described in the book). Why would he choose Charlotte over Mary, especially since Mary is nearly ten years younger than Charlotte (who is two years older than Mr. Collins)?
Annie
Posted by Annie on November 04, 1996 at 11:42:15:
: : Yes, but in the book, this encounter is in the afternoon (confusingly called morning - morning extended to dinner time in 1812). I also think that Georgiana has gone to bed in P&P2 - after all she is much younger than the rest of the party.
: : Anna
:
: ___________________
: She is 16!
: Ann
___________________
Someone should have told that to Mr. and Mrs. Bennet where it regards Lydia!!!!
Annie
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kim on November 04, 1996 at 11:54:49:
: : :
: : : I haven't heard anything about A&E doing Jane Eyre, but I would love it. The BBC version of Jane Eyre with Timothy Dalton Is wonderful. watching my new tapes last nite, I started wondering, what if Lizzie's family had pressured her into accepting Mr. Collins (for obvious financial reasons) & Darcy had also weakened to Lady C's pressure & had married Ann. Then Darcy & Lizzie could have stared at each other during many interminable evenings at Rosings!
: :
: : ___________________
: : Thank the lord our heros took the road they did. After spending time together I think Lizzie would have come around. She would of course never have known about Darcy's love for her. HOw very sad for them both.
: : I was wondering how things would have gone if Mr.Collins had kept Jane in mind for a mate. I think she would be more likely to bend to Mrs. Bennets pressure than Lizzie.
: I think not Lizzie and Mr.B.would of forbid it. As Joan,too said she would wanted to make her family proud.
: Donna
: : Where would Lizzie and Darcy be then?
: : I read today that A&E's next project will be Jane Eyre. Has anyone heard anything about it?
: : Mich
:
: ___________________
___________________
Posted by Phyllis on November 04, 1996 at 12:28:13:
I am sure this has previously been discussed, but please bear with me. I have joined in only one before and didn't find you until recently.
After Darcy gives Lizzy the letter on the grounds at Rosing and she returns, Maria tells her-when she returns- that both Darcy and Fitzwilliam had called on her while she was gone. Maria says that Darcy left shortly, but Fitzwilliam stayed on for over a half hour. In the book, he contemplates going out to look for her.
Do you suppose that Fitzwilliam stayed on to smooth over "spilling the beans" to Lizzy re: Jane and Bingley and Darcy's part in it, or that he simply enjoyed her company so much that he wished to tell her goodby?. That Jane-one more time, she leaves a lot up to us to think about and to consider!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on November 04, 1996 at 12:49:22:
: I am sure this has previously been discussed, but please bear with me. I have joined in only one before and didn't find you until recently.
: After Darcy gives Lizzy the letter on the grounds at Rosing and she returns, Maria tells her-when she returns- that both Darcy and Fitzwilliam had called on her while she was gone. Maria says that Darcy left shortly, but Fitzwilliam stayed on for over a half hour. In the book, he contemplates going out to look for her.
: Do you suppose that Fitzwilliam stayed on to smooth over "spilling the beans" to Lizzy re: Jane and Bingley and Darcy's part in it, or that he simply enjoyed her company so much that he wished to tell her goodby?. That Jane-one more time, she leaves a lot up to us to think about and to consider!
___________________
Though Fitzwilliam is probably smart enough to know that
something happened between Darcy and Lizzy the previous
night, he still would not have a clue that he contributed to
it. He still doesn't know that Bingley's lady friend was
Lizzy's sister; this is not something Darcy would have
discussed.
I think that Darcy may have asked Fitzwilliam to try to speak
to Lizzy alone and to answer any questions she might ask--
no matter what they might be, but I doubt that he was any more
explicit than that.
Of course Fitz. did also have a hankering for Lizzy too, so
he may have not wanted to leave without saying good-bye.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on November 04, 1996 at 13:00:31:
: Hi. I am sorry I am one more Ann, kind of. I am 14 and just read P&P. I asked my mom if this was an okay place to read messages and she looked at it and wasn't sure. This morning I asked her again and she said she had a god idea. That I should ask you if you would want your 14 old dauhters in here. She said she thought you seemed like nice people. That she would consider what you think about it. Thank you.
___________________
Tell your mom it's okay. This site is carefully supervised
by are hostess Amy for any improper messages or pictures. We
carry on very civilised discussions here.
Ann
And as far as I'm concerned the more Anns the better!
Posted by Bernie on November 04, 1996 at 13:04:16:
: : Last night the BBC was celebrating its 60th birthday. As part of the celebrations, awards for all time greats were made. Favourite all time Drama Serial was of course Pride and Prejudice (2). Favourite all time actor ( as voted by over half a million besotted Brits) was Colin Firth. Colin wasn't at the presentation ceremony, but he gave a very witty acceptance speech from a poolside in LA.
: : Bernie
: : PS. His hair has been dyed dark, and the mutton chops are back (although they're not as large as in P&P)! He also gave us one of those SMILES, sigh!
:
: ___________________
:
: : Bernie, you never even gave us a hint that this was firthcoming...excuse me, forthcoming. With just a bit of notice, we all could have gotten satellite dishes and been ready ---- not to mention, some of us chartering flights so as to join you in your living room. Have you no group loyalty??
: Grace
___________________
Grace,
Actually, I had no idea that this was on myself, until I switched on the box and there he was! The problem is that I don't get home from work 'till around 10.30 pm, so I missed all the fliers for the event.
Incidentally, the National TV awards were held last month (I know this was mentioned on the Firthlist!). P&P2, Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle were all nominated. I got my husband to (try to) video if for me. I know that Colin and Jennifer didn't win, but I've no idea whether P&P 2 won the best drama award. My other half managed to cut this!!! For some inexplicable reason, none of the papers I looked at cited the results. There we have it!
Bernie
___________________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Rachel on November 04, 1996 at 13:11:35:
I have a BBC video of P&P from 1985; I got it from Critics Choice; I also got from them a 1972 'Emma'; they have a few othe JA dramatizations, mostly BBC things.As for the 1967 and 1980 productions, I do not know if they exist on video. I've read about them though. It seems that the woman who played Jane in A & E's has a mother who played Jane in the'67 version. I remember being at a party around 1980 (not the most recent party I've been to; almost, though) and pretending to faint when someone mentioned 'Darcy.'Therefore I believe this 1980 version to exist, somewhere.
Posted by Rachel on November 04, 1996 at 13:11:36:
I have a BBC video of P&P from 1985; I got it from Critics Choice; I also got from them a 1972 'Emma'; they have a few othe JA dramatizations, mostly BBC things.As for the 1967 and 1980 productions, I do not know if they exist on video. I've read about them though. It seems that the woman who played Jane in A & E's has a mother who played Jane in the'67 version. I remember being at a party around 1980 (not the most recent party I've been to; almost, though) and pretending to faint when someone mentioned 'Darcy.'Therefore I believe this 1980 version to exist, somewhere.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on November 04, 1996 at 13:16:09:
: I don't see it that way. Although he would feel some guilt about not letting people know about Wickham, he says 'You have long been wanting my absence' because he is aware that he has barged in on a very private and emotional matter, and that from Lizzie's perspective he therefore does not belong there at that time.
: Hilary
___________________
Later she would think the same:
"Elizabeth was now most heartily sorry that she had, from the distress of the moment, been led to make Mr. Darcy acquainted with their fears for her sister; for since her marriage would so shortly give the proper termination to the elopement, they might hope to conceal its unfavorable beginning from all those who were not immediately on the spot.
"She had no fear of its spreading farther through his means. There were few people on whose secrecy she would have more confidently depended; but, at the same time, there was no one whose knowledge of a sister's frailty would have mortified her so much..."
Ann
Posted by Ann on November 04, 1996 at 13:21:42:
: : : But that really was a bit early for Georgiana to be leaving the party - it was not yet completely dark outside when the Gardiner's carriage departed.
: : : Joan, too
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Maybe Georgianna chose to take her leave since the only ones left for her to visit with were the Bingley sisters. (Ugh!)
: : -Candace
: This episode is occurring close to midsummer, when it isn't completely dark until 11pm in Northern England - not late to bed, but not indecently early either. Avoiding the Bingley sisters would been an added plus.
: Anna
___________________
But, she should have been there--she was the hostess!
Perhaps she was attending to the rest of the "large party of friends" ;-).
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Bernie on November 04, 1996 at 13:28:34:
: : ___________________
: : I think it is because he is not paying attention to anything else going on around him - he is so totally focused on his own fantasy.
: : He even wants/tries to tune Caroline out when she starts needling Lizzie, but when she gets off the crack about Wickham, he is momentarily physcally jolted out of his dream world, and sent scrambling out of his seat with a "How could I have let this happen?" look, till he sees that Lizzie has everyting under control. Now his fantasy bubble gets even better, because there are signs that it may actually be true - he sees that Lizzie has stepped in and taken on the role of protector to Georgiana; she is not just being civil. Then she actually returns his look...
: Yes, he is watching her but,she feels his eyes on her.
: He returns her look,she looks up first with a ever so slight smile. If she didn't look up there would be no connection{look}.
: A look speaks volumes.
: Donna
: could it possibly mean that he might still have a chance after all?
: : Joan, too
:
: ___________________
___________________
When Elizabeth has rebuffed Caroline and goes to protect Georgiana, she lifts up her eyes shyly, to look at Darcy, and it seems to me that she is seeking Darcy's approval. It is almost as if she is asking "Did I handle the situation correctly ?"
Darcy then gives her that half smile, indicating that he is very well pleased with the way that Elizabeth dealt with Caroline's snidiness (sp?). She then looks at him with that lovely smile as if to say "There don't worry about it any longer, I do care about you and your sister".
We then see Darcy looking beatifically at Lizzie (the look). After all he is in paradise! He is at home, with his sister and with the woman who has shown that she does have some feeling towards him after all -- he senses there is definitely hope for him yet.
Bernie
___________________
Posted by Tay on November 04, 1996 at 13:31:47:
: Anna-
: Yes, Mr. Bingley was indeed a very sincere man with a very light-hearted and caring disposition (such a perfect match for Jane!). I tended to feel very sorry for him throughout the series... for his sisters (and Darcy -- in the beginning) were so overbearing and outspoken with him! I pitied the fact that he was so nice to everyone to the point where his sisters took advantage of his kindness. I definitely give Bingley credit for being a very endearing character.
___________________
I too would like to say something in the defense of Mr.Bingley.
Mr. Bingley makes me . . . laugh!
It's true. Everytime he comes onto the screen with his jolly good smile, I can't help but smile back. Especially the time when he meets Lizzie again in the Inn at Lampton. When he comes up, "Miss Bennet!" a big grin just plastered across his face - his smile is so contagious, and always fills you with a sense of goodness.
Am I alone in this?
But of course, he does not inspire such awe (to name but a few of the feelings one feels) at the sight of Darcy.
Yet, I stubbornly still do also like Mr. Bingley. He's very sweet and nice and good.
Just adding on to the comments,
Tay.
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