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Posted by kathleen on November 03, 1996 at 23:29:57:
: maybe. It's a proprietary gaze. (Covetousness is awkward, I know. But it's the only word I can think of... -Arnessa
: ___________________
: 
Whoa! We are all stirred up by this. How exciting to be able to be so moved by a series of expressions. I find it so, anyway.
: Question. Anne, I never dissected the string of looks as you have. Thank you (for that and for starting off the R/V discussion today in Cheryls's absence. I think it is so cool how everybody here jumps into help.) Do you think the picture of the culminating look or first look?
: Arnessa, I can't describe Darcy's feeling either but I sense it too. It's like he is drinking her in -- all of her, as you said, letting her flow over him, happily drowning in her. Maybe there are not words.
: Question for anybody. I agree with the comments of many who believe he is thinking how pleasant it is to have Georgiana and Lizzy with him at Pemberley. For some reason, I don't know why, I have a notion at at the moment he is sitting on the sofa listening, he is only thinking of how nice it is right then, at that minute. Later, during and wandering and remembering, it seems he is thinking "how I would like her to always be here." Anybody else get the same impression? Is so, how did we get it?
: Amy
___________________
I get the same impression. It's a great acting job by Colin Firth. His changes of expression are
subtle but very realistic. In the initial look (while Elizabeth is playing) Darcy's eyes shift briefly
from Elizabeth to Georgiana then back. (I missed this the first 10 or 20 times I watched this
scene -- and even now I sometimes miss it if I blink!) His look of contentment is more pronounced
(slightly) after his eyes refocus on Elizabeth. I get the impression that he is thoroughly enjoying
having the two women he most cares about side by side in his house, getting to know each
other. It is enough for the moment -- in fact, it is probably all he can deal with emotionally at that
moment.
Just a thought.
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on November 03, 1996 at 23:35:15:
For those with the full version of the tapes:
I am a bit puzzled by Darcy's body language back at Pemberley
after hearing about Lydia and Wickham (just before he so
beautifully puts Miss Bingley in her place). His body language
is so tight. From that, I would conclude that Firth
interpreted Darcy as being afraid that Lizzy will blame him
for what happened to her sister. But I'm still not satisfied
by that.
Any opinions,
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on November 03, 1996 at 23:38:36:
: She also would not have said it because she knows what Miss B. is driving at and, for Georgiana's sake, would not want to draw Miss B. into mentioning Wickham.
: Ann
___________________
But Caroline was determined to stir up trouble. What could Lizzie have said that would have
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on November 03, 1996 at 23:42:25:
: But Caroline was determined to stir up trouble. What could Lizzie have said that would have
___________________
How about:
"No, I do not think so....My dear Aunt did we not have the
most beautiful drive today."
Thus, changing the subject as much as possible. But I agree,
Caroline would probably have gone on regardless of what
Lizzy said.
Ann
Posted by Anne on November 03, 1996 at 23:52:16:
: Don't forget A&E starting next week on Classroom at 7am I believe rebroadcast of our favorite miniseries. I've got my VCR working I hope, (no I do not have a set of tapes yet). Please correct me if this info is incorrect. k
___________________
Thanks for the info -- got some new blank tapes and will set up the recorder.
Anne
Posted by Joan, too on November 03, 1996 at 23:53:20:
: For those with the full version of the tapes:
: I am a bit puzzled by Darcy's body language back at Pemberley
: after hearing about Lydia and Wickham (just before he so
: beautifully puts Miss Bingley in her place). His body language
: is so tight. From that, I would conclude that Firth
: interpreted Darcy as being afraid that Lizzy will blame him
: for what happened to her sister. But I'm still not satisfied
: by that.
: Any opinions,
: Ann
___________________
I think he is struggling in his own mind regarding what he can do and how it can be done without anyone questioning how he knows about it and why he should be involved at all. He must still come to terms with the feelings that he has always had about keeping his personal affairs private, and now he is going to have to make at least some of them more public.
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on November 03, 1996 at 23:55:02:
: I love the way the scene is played where Darcy comes to the inn just
: after Lizzy gets the letters from Jane. The look of concern and
: helplessness he has when he doesn't know what is wrong. He wants to
: do something so badly. He is so concerned that he actually takes her
: hand without it being offered -- and you see him realize it and
: reluctantly release it. It shows a side of Darcy that has not been
: revealed to Lizzy before -- and she was too upset to actually see it.
: Anne
___________________
Ever since I noticed it, Firth's twitch when Ehle says "You
know him too well to doubt the rest" has bothered me. If you
don't notice it, it seems natural, but if you see it, it
seems like an actor's trick. (One small complaint in an
otherwise wonderful performance.)
Ann
(we've become annundated!!)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on November 03, 1996 at 23:56:49:
: : Amy:
: : Do you think the picture of the culminating look or first look?
: Very hard to say, because the picts that we've seen are all from still shots, not captured from the film - so in a way they are really separate "looks" in their own right. I think this one looks most like the one just before Lizzie looks up and sees him looking.
: : Question for anybody. I agree with the comments of many who believe he is thinking how pleasant it is to have Georgiana and Lizzy with him at Pemberley. For some reason, I don't know why, I have a notion at at the moment he is sitting on the sofa listening, he is only thinking of how nice it is right then, at that minute. Later, during and wandering and remembering, it seems he is thinking "how I would like her to always be here." Anybody else get the same impression? Is so, how did we get it?
:
: ___________________
: I think it is because he is not paying attention to anything else going on around him - he is so totally focused on his own fantasy.
: He even wants/tries to tune Caroline out when she starts needling Lizzie, but when she gets off the crack about Wickham, he is momentarily physcally jolted out of his dream world, and sent scrambling out of his seat with a "How could I have let this happen?" look, till he sees that Lizzie has everyting under control. Now his fantasy bubble gets even better, because there are signs that it may actually be true - he sees that Lizzie has stepped in and taken on the role of protector to Georgiana; she is not just being civil. Then she actually returns his look...
Yes, he is watching her but,she feels his eyes on her.
He returns her look,she looks up first with a ever so slight smile. If she didn't look up there would be no connection{look}.
A look speaks volumes.
Donna
could it possibly mean that he might still have a chance after all?
: Joan, too
___________________
Posted by Mich on November 03, 1996 at 23:56:53:
: : :
: : : In watching my new tapes last nite, I started wondering, what if Lizzie's family had pressured her into accepting Mr. Collins (for obvious financial reasons) & Darcy had also weakened to Lady C's pressure & had married Ann. Then Darcy & Lizzie could have stared at each other during many interminable evenings at Rosings!
: :
: : ___________________
:
: : I was wondering how things would have gone if Mr.Collins had kept Jane in mind for a mate. I think she would be more likely to bend to Mrs. Bennets pressure than Lizzie.
: I think not Lizzie and Mr.B.would of forbid it. As Joan,too said she would wanted to make her family proud.
: Donna
: :
:
: ___________________
___________________
Sorry I was no more clear. My question was more aimed at how Jane and Mr. Collins marriage would have affected the progression of Lizzie & Darcy.
Please don't think I would wish Mr.C on Jane.
To your point
I'm sure your right about Lizzie but I'm not so sure about Mr.B. Aside from Mr. Collins being a fool it would have been a respectable match. Since it would have secured the estate should Mr.B die, I can see where Jane may have thought it would make everyone happy and proud.
Mich
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on November 04, 1996 at 00:01:47:
: : : By so doing, she gave up her freedom, independence and subjected herself to the power of a man who was stronger than herself and, for that matter, stronger than her father or any other man she has ever known.
: Since she never had either much practical freedom or any
: financial freedom before she married Darcy, I can not see
: that she lost anything by marrying. She was not independent
: when she met him, and would more likely gain some independence
: from the marriage--certainly financially (wealth allows more
: freedom than poverty).
: Even walking alone the three miles to Netherfield was thought
: by the Bingleys (and Darcy) to be an extraordinary and
: undignified liberty, which a fashionable young lady should
: not dare to attempt. She could not go where she liked or do
: what she wished without her father's permission and a
: guardian to look after her (at least until she became an old
: maid). She had no money of own, only that which her father
: could give her. Few women of the day were in Lady C.'s
: position of having control over their own lives and finances.
: She also grew up with the knowledge that, if none of the
: family made a good marriage, they would be booted out of
: their house with little to fall back on. If neither Lizzy's
: nor Jane's marriage took place, the Bennets would become, on
: the death of Mr. Bennet, a poorer version of the
: Dashwoods. There is no freedom in poverty.
: Ann
___________________
ANN<ANN I meant doesn't hold water. DONNA
Posted by Ann on November 04, 1996 at 00:02:41:
: Sorry I was no more clear. My question was more aimed at how Jane and Mr. Collins marriage would have affected the progression of Lizzie & Darcy.
: Please don't think I would wish Mr.C on Jane.
: To your point
: I'm sure your right about Lizzie but I'm not so sure about Mr.B. Aside from Mr. Collins being a fool it would have been a respectable match. Since it would have secured the estate should Mr.B die, I can see where Jane may have thought it would make everyone happy and proud.
: Mich
___________________
It would also have simply been hard for Jane to have handled
his proposal as Lizzy did. It's hard to imagine how Jane
would have been able to refuse him to his face. Lizzy on the
other hand had little difficulty.
Ann
Posted by Ann on November 04, 1996 at 00:07:06:
: One thing that always bothered me about Lydia's invitation to Brighton was the way Kitty reacted to it. She had a right to be jealous, but as she herself said, she was not Mrs. Forster's "particular friend," and Lydia was. It doesn't matter that Kitty was older; Lydia was closer to Mrs. Forster. It was only natural that, if Mrs. Forster was going to invite one of the Bennet girls, she was going to invite Lydia to go with her.
: Did this bother anyone else or do you think that maybe Kitty had the right to the invitation (even though neither one of them should have been allowed to go)?
___________________
There is a direct parallel with Lizzy's trip with the
Gardiners. Can you see Jane saying "It's not fair, the
Gardiners should have asked me as well as Lizzy. I have just
as much right to go as she has, and more too for I am two
years older!"
It comes down to the fact that the two eldest have sense and
the two youngest do not.
Ann
Posted by Donna on November 04, 1996 at 00:14:57:
: : I love the way the scene is played where Darcy comes to the inn just
: : after Lizzy gets the letters from Jane. The look of concern and
: : helplessness he has when he doesn't know what is wrong. He wants to
: : do something so badly. He is so concerned that he actually takes her
: : hand without it being offered -- and you see him realize it and
: : reluctantly release it. It shows a side of Darcy that has not been
: : revealed to Lizzy before -- and she was too upset to actually see it.
: : Anne
:
: ___________________
: Ever since I noticed it, Firth's twitch when Ehle says "You
: know him too well to doubt the rest" has bothered me. If you
: don't notice it, it seems natural, but if you see it, it
: seems like an actor's trick. (One small complaint in an
: otherwise wonderful performance.)
: Ann
: (we've become annundated!!)
___________________
I love that little shiver. What she said hit him like a ton of bricks.
ooops Donna
Posted by Joan, too on November 04, 1996 at 00:43:13:
: Maybe Georgianna chose to take her leave since the only ones left for her to visit with were the Bingley sisters. (Ugh!)
: -Candace
___________________
My respect for Georgiana increases if, indeed, she demonstrated such good judgement! :-)
Joan, too
Posted by Raewyn on November 04, 1996 at 00:50:56:
: I don't see it that way. Although he would feel some guilt about not letting people know about Wickham, he says 'You have long been wanting my absence' because he is aware that he has barged in on a very private and emotional matter, and that from Lizzie's perspective he therefore does not belong there at that time. He also cannot help her more than he has just done by listening. He doesn't want to get her hopes up by promising help that may have no result, even if he is planning to track Lydia down, so he doesn't even mention that possibility. She misinterprets, thinking that he now won't want to see her because of the family disgrace.
: Although Darcy, Lizzie and Jane all feel guilt, as Lizzie says, they should not. It was probably not really in their power to expose Wickham anyway - it was vital that the Georgiana affair be kept quiet, and that was the real crunch, wasn't it? They had all acted properly, and given the same circumstances would probably do the same again.
: And although Darcy persuades Mr.G that he rescued Lydia because it was all his fault, the Gs and we know that he had other motivations as well.
: Hilary
___________________
I agree with your interpretation of Darcy's sudden removal from the room, but although he is motivated largely by his affection for Lizzie, I don't think he is completely free of feelings of guilt. He still feels somehow responsible for the actions of Wickham. Although there was nothing he could actually have done to prevent the current situation, this doesn't stop him feeling guilty. Wickham is almost like Darcy's brother-gone-bad, so it not unnatural that he should feel that Wickham's actions reflect on him.
Rae
Posted by Anna on November 04, 1996 at 00:54:21:
: I thought Darcy was more hurried than taking care in dressing to ride to Lambton, especially when he told his valet "never mind that"; also the choice was between a black and a green coat - he said "blue" at first but then said "that one".
?? I thught I heard him say the green one - I'll have to watch again ( not a problem !!!)
: I agree with you Paula that the extra scenes with Darcy make him much more human than he would have been - also much more sexy. Did anyone else notice the dogs lying by the door of his room while he's getting dressed - I really liked that touch.
Yes - it also resonates nicely with Lizzy playing with the dog at Netherfield.
Anna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Shelagh on November 04, 1996 at 00:59:32:
Maybe this has been discussed before I came along but it has
always bothered me why Wickham should single out Lydia. He must
have concluded somehow that Darcy was succuming to the charms of
Elizabeth. But he had not communication with Darcy to really be
sure. By marrying Lydia he felt he may have a chance to form a
lasting tie to the Darcy money. But if D & E never married he would
be strapped with one very tormenting and silly wife. Or is he just
an addicted seducer? The scenes at the inn when Lydia is pleading
to be taken out he seems to be waiting to be discovered by Darcy.
It is all very confusing. Sorry, I haven't taken the time to research
this in the book. Maybe J.A. gives some explanation. Hope you all
can help. Thanks, Shelagh
Follow Ups:
Posted by Hilary on November 04, 1996 at 01:04:45:
: maybe. It's a proprietary gaze. (Covetousness is awkward, I know. But it's the only word I can think of... -Arnessa
: ___________________
: Whoa! We are all stirred up by this. How exciting to be able to be so moved by a series of expressions. I find it so, anyway.
: Question. Anne, I never dissected the string of looks as you have. Thank you (for that and for starting off the R/V discussion today in Cheryls's absence. I think it is so cool how everybody here jumps into help.) Do you think the picture of the culminating look or first look?
: Arnessa, I can't describe Darcy's feeling either but I sense it too. It's like he is drinking her in -- all of her, as you said, letting her flow over him, happily drowning in her. Maybe there are not words.
: Question for anybody. I agree with the comments of many who believe he is thinking how pleasant it is to have Georgiana and Lizzy with him at Pemberley. For some reason, I don't know why, I have a notion at at the moment he is sitting on the sofa listening, he is only thinking of how nice it is right then, at that minute. Later, during and wandering and remembering, it seems he is thinking "how I would like her to always be here." Anybody else get the same impression? Is so, how did we get it?
: Amy
___________________
Is it possible the pic is not from the look scene? It almost looks like its from the one where he is asking if she approves of Pemberly, with that more outward smile.
Maybe that feeling you talk of is because there is a kind of aura of stillness and contentment and bliss for those few seconds, centered on Darcy and Lizzie, a bit like the eye of a storm. Also, there is the relaxation of his shoulders, which gives me a feeling like he's breathing out all his tension, and feeling 'Yes, this is how it should be, this is perfect.' -sufficient unto the moment. The music helps too.
Hilary
Posted by Joan, too on November 04, 1996 at 01:11:00:
: : : I was wondering how things would have gone if Mr.Collins had kept Jane in mind for a mate. I think she would be more likely to bend to Mrs. Bennets pressure than Lizzie.
: : I think not Lizzie and Mr.B.would of forbid it. As Joan,too said she would wanted to make her family proud.
: : Donna
:
: Sorry I was no more clear. My question was more aimed at how Jane and Mr. Collins marriage would have affected the progression of Lizzie & Darcy.
: Please don't think I would wish Mr.C on Jane.
: To your point
: I'm sure your right about Lizzie but I'm not so sure about Mr.B. Aside from Mr. Collins being a fool it would have been a respectable match. Since it would have secured the estate should Mr.B die, I can see where Jane may have thought it would make everyone happy and proud.
: Mich
___________________
This is an interesting thought (though luckily not one that we need actually be worried about [grin]) - Mr. B. would not permit Lizzie to accept Mr. C., but would he have permitted Jane?
And Regarding Jane, yes, she wanted to please her family, but she also wanted to marry for love. Would she have accepted Mr. C.? When Lizzie told Jane that Charlotte had acceptted him and stated that Jane would not have accepted him just to secure a comfortable home, Jane did agree that she [Jane] would not, but told Lizzie that she should make allowances for differences in circumstances and temperament - so it would appear that even though she might have felt guilty about it, Jane might have refused him, as well.
Joan, too
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