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Posted by Joan, too on November 02, 1996 at 01:27:35:
: :
: : indeed.com
: : taken
: :
: : thereitis.com
: : taken
: : ducktape
: : taken!
:
: ___________________
:
: fitzwilliam.com pemberley.com
: not taken
___________________
Are you dedicated to the .com domain? Maybe some of the other "taken" names are not taken in .org?
Joan, too
Posted by Joan, too on November 02, 1996 at 01:46:17:
: Do you think HE was that sure of Lizzie at this time because of Lady C. He could of gave her a little hint before he left for London but I guess that would ruin the effect when he walks into the LBourne dining {before their walk}the look on their faces is so intense.
: Donna
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I don't believe that he is sure yet, either. He is encouraged, because she did agree to meet his sister and socialize with them, but not yet certain. Except for those visits to Longbourne with Bingley, during which Lizzie was "grave and silent", he has not seen her since they parted company in Lambton. (And he doesn't know that she knows anything about what he has done to help her sisters.) It took Lady C.'s visit to make him believe that a renewal of his addresses might be received more favorably than before.
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on November 02, 1996 at 01:49:20:
: They [Lizzy and Georgianna] contrast stongly with the Bingley sisters. I wonder if this is an oblique way of telling us that the Bingley sisters are vulgarly overdressed - they are the children of a nouveau riche merchant. Georgiana is even richer than they are and her restraint is presumably a matter of good taste rather than limited funds. Or maybe it is just because of Georgiana's youth.
: any opinions?
: Anna.
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You bring up a good point. The contrast between those we admire and those we do not is seen not only in their actions and speech, but in their clothing. This cannot be an accident. But I do not think it is a comment on the nouveau riche, but on refinement. The Bingley sisters are considered very elegant indeed, and I am sure that in London, they are considered very fashionable. Georgianna and Lizzy dress similarily for reasons you mentioned; G. is young and not out, Lizzy is poor and cannot afford the Bingley froo-froo, but it is also a matter of taste and refinement. They dress simply, but classically; the sisters have no refinement and are slaves to what society dictates. We see the same in Darcy, he can certainly afford the best of everything, and his clothes reflect his taste and breeding and so he eschews the satins and ruffles of a Mr. Hurst.
This is also seen in the homes, remember that Lady Catherine's humble abode is very elegant and ornate while Darcy's is described as truly tasteful and refined, lacking in pretension.
Cheryl
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Posted by Alicia on November 02, 1996 at 01:56:21:
Anna-
Yes, Mr. Bingley was indeed a very sincere man with a very light-hearted and caring disposition (such a perfect match for Jane!). I tended to feel very sorry for him throughout the series... for his sisters (and Darcy -- in the beginning) were so overbearing and outspoken with him! I pitied the fact that he was so nice to everyone to the point where his sisters took advantage of his kindness. I definitely give Bingley credit for being a very endearing character.
Posted by Cheryl on November 02, 1996 at 01:56:43:
: In summary I think that Mr Bingley was a very nice man (and I disagree with the view that nice is boring - I find boors far more boring), and will make excellent husband material, and that jane Austen also approved of him.
: at least I've given y'all something to disagree with ; )
: Anna.
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I don't think you will get too much argument. Bingley is a very nice person, very sweet and is the perfect mate for the very nice and very sweet Jane. Nice people do get overshadowed, but where would the world be without them? They are the ones who do most of the work and keep the "civil" in civilization.
But if you are asking me to choose between a Darcy and a Bingley...well...
Cheryl
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Posted by Joan, too on November 02, 1996 at 02:02:22:
: Anna:
: In summary I think that Mr Bingley was a very nice man (and I disagree with the view that nice is boring - I find boors far more boring), and will make excellent husband material, and that jane Austen also approved of him.
: at least I've given y'all something to disagree with ; )
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I agree that Bingley is indeed a very nice man - and in some respects the "flip side" of Darcy. While D is characterized as having a selfish distain for the feelings of others, Bingley is always aware of them, and is consistently courteous and attentive to their needs, even though he doesn't always have the courage and/or confidence to stand up to those whom he feels criticize others unjustly. He is very fortunate to have found Jane, with whom he will have a happy life - if he had married another type of woman, he could have been mercilessly henpecked for the rest of his life. ;)
Joan, too
Posted by Joan, too on November 02, 1996 at 02:13:43:
: You bring up a good point. The contrast between those we admire and those we do not is seen not only in their actions and speech, but in their clothing. This cannot be an accident. But I do not think it is a comment on the nouveau riche, but on refinement. The Bingley sisters are considered very elegant indeed, and I am sure that in London, they are considered very fashionable. Georgianna and Lizzy dress similarily for reasons you mentioned; G. is young and not out, Lizzy is poor and cannot afford the Bingley froo-froo, but it is also a matter of taste and refinement. They dress simply, but classically; the sisters have no refinement and are slaves to what society dictates. We see the same in Darcy, he can certainly afford the best of everything, and his clothes reflect his taste and breeding and so he eschews the satins and ruffles of a Mr. Hurst.
: This is also seen in the homes, remember that Lady Catherine's humble abode is very elegant and ornate while Darcy's is described as truly tasteful and refined, lacking in pretension.
: Cheryl
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Yes, yes - and the consistency of this attention to detail is what makes this such an outstanding film These themes were deliberately carried out in every aspect of the production right down to the furnishings, table settings, and horses and carriages which they rode.
Joan, too
Posted by Margot on November 02, 1996 at 02:14:56:
: Johanne, I don't think this picture is in the series. I think it's one of their publicity
: shot. Jennifer Ehle fan club links is included below, it was supplied by Bernie several
: days ago.
:
: Enjoy!
: Zimei
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I love this picture. It is (part of) my wallpaper for some time now.
But I think Bernie got this picture from the FoF site:
http://www.iupui.edi/~rogersc/pictures.html
(Darcy & Lizzie)
Margot
Link:
Posted by Kali on November 02, 1996 at 02:40:30:
: : In summary I think that Mr Bingley was a very nice man (and I disagree with the view that nice is boring - I find boors far more boring), and will make excellent husband material, and that jane Austen also approved of him.
: : at least I've given y'all something to disagree with ; )
: : Anna.
:
: ___________________
: I don't think you will get too much argument. Bingley is a very nice person, very sweet and is the perfect mate for the very nice and very sweet Jane. Nice people do get overshadowed, but where would the world be without them? They are the ones who do most of the work and keep the "civil" in civilization.
: But if you are asking me to choose between a Darcy and a Bingley...well...
: Cheryl
___________________
I agree with both of you! Bingley may be exceedingly kind, but it doesn't necessarily follow than he is insipid or ignorant of the complexities of life. It's difficult to come to terms with life's difficulties (as Darcy and Lizzy can tell you!), but who is to say that Bingley is not soulful or intelligent enough to understand them simply because his life passage is not quite so obviously laborious as Darcy's? Certainly, Jane is a bit naive - and maybe Bingley, too - but she isn't stupid either.
Saintliness doesn't necessarily mean cluelessness, and I think it's obvious from the examples cited by Alicia in the next thread branch (esp. re: Georgiana) that Bingley is very aware of what is going on with the people around him (except for the Jane thing, but then again, most guys are clueless when it comes to stuff like this). Who couldn't learn something about life and human nature living with the Hursts and Caroline Bingley? As with Jane, putting a positive spin on things certainly helps to keep life in perspective. It also keeps you from saying something negative that you might regret later.
- K
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on November 02, 1996 at 02:47:14:
: : : Perfect, Kali!
: : : : Janet__________
: : ___________________
: : Ya'll have just worn me out. And to think it all started when I misunderstood Janet's (I think) word, affront, to be front!
: : When I have more energy I shall rejoin the Darcy admiration society. " For now, let us not say , "Goodbye," but as the French have it, "Aurevoire(???)"
: : ::Tommye
: : P>S> While I speak fluent Southern, I have had zero French lessons, as you probably can tell!
:
: __________
: 'Twas no misunderstanding, Tommye; rather, my 'poultry' attempt at a pun. (Sorry - enough animal talk.)
: : Janet
: _________
___________________
Yet another big Ba-dum CHING! for Janet and Tommye.
More rimshots later,
K
Posted by Kali on November 02, 1996 at 02:50:40:
:
: : :
: : : : Sheesh, this is one smart thread! WWhat a beautiful linkage between the morality and the "transforamtion"!
: : : : - K
: : : ___________________
: : : :TransforAMTION?
: : : ::Tommye
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Either you're making a crack at my spelling, or you're doing your impression of Adam Sandler's Cajun Man. ; )
: : - K
: ___________________
: Just playing, Kali. Cajun Man? I assure I was doing no such impression. Just tired, old, and crochety. Birthday coming up and hormones exploding.
: :Tommye
___________________
Come on, you're not old! Happy birthday! Remember, you're only as old as you come off in your bb messages!
- K
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on November 02, 1996 at 03:51:42:
: : : In summary I think that Mr Bingley was a very nice man (and I disagree with the view that nice is boring - I find boors far more boring), and will make excellent husband material, and that jane Austen also approved of him.
: : : at least I've given y'all something to disagree with ; )
: : : Anna.
: :
: : ___________________
: : I don't think you will get too much argument. Bingley is a very nice person, very sweet and is the perfect mate for the very nice and very sweet Jane. Nice people do get overshadowed, but where would the world be without them? They are the ones who do most of the work and keep the "civil" in civilization.
: : But if you are asking me to choose between a Darcy and a Bingley...well...
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
:
: I agree with both of you! Bingley may be exceedingly kind, but it doesn't necessarily follow than he is insipid or ignorant of the complexities of life. It's difficult to come to terms with life's difficulties (as Darcy and Lizzy can tell you!), but who is to say that Bingley is not soulful or intelligent enough to understand them simply because his life passage is not quite so obviously laborious as Darcy's? Certainly, Jane is a bit naive - and maybe Bingley, too - but she isn't stupid either.
: Saintliness doesn't necessarily mean cluelessness, and I think it's obvious from the examples cited by Alicia in the next thread branch (esp. re: Georgiana) that Bingley is very aware of what is going on with the people around him (except for the Jane thing, but then again, most guys are clueless when it comes to stuff like this). Who couldn't learn something about life and human nature living with the Hursts and Caroline Bingley? As with Jane, putting a positive spin on things certainly helps to keep life in perspective. It also keeps you from saying something negative that you might regret later.
: - K
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Oops! I meant the examples in ANNA'S post, not Alicia's (but Alicia's post is nice too!)
- K
Posted by Eric on November 02, 1996 at 04:26:39:
: : : ___________________
: : : You can buy the tapes from A&E -- the 800 number is on their Web site. It comes with the book and costs about $110 with shipping, but I think it's also available elsewhere for less. Try the Links button at the top of this BB for sources.
: :
: : ___________________
: : What I really don't understand is why you guys are charged ca. $100 for P&P2. In Britain it comes as a double tape all for the price of £19.99 ($30).
: : Bernie
: :
: : ___________________
:
: ___________________
:
: For anyone in the U.S. who hasn't already purchased the tapes, check PriceClub/Costco -- they had the set for $59.99. It's the six hour version too.
___________________
And where might I find "PriceClub/Costco"? If it's not on the Web, I guess I won't find it, will I?
Follow Ups:
Posted by Eric on November 02, 1996 at 04:34:21:
: : Why, we are, I'm sure, expected to attribute it to her wish of increasing our enjoyment of the book by suspense, according to the usual practice of elegant authors. ;-)
: : Joan, too
: ___________________
: Oh yes. I know. You are all quite right, I am sure. I only wish sometimes she had not the pretension to the sort of elegance that consists of tormenting respectable romantics.
: Amy
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Respectable romantics? Is there such a thing? Romantics have many admirable qualities, but a concern for respectability is rarely one of them. ;->
But, the passage in the book which began this thread does do a good job of conveying the sort of tension between decorum and desire in a way that makes the reader feel it every bit as much as the participants.
Posted by Eric on November 02, 1996 at 05:02:28:
I was watching the series again last night and something caught my eye.
In the scene where Miss Bingley invites Lizzie to "take a turn about the room - It's so refreshing", Darcy is sitting at a table reading. Behind him, on the wall, is a small etching/drawing. Is it Jane, herself?
Posted by IF on November 02, 1996 at 05:35:52:
: I've wondered at the missing Charlotte too. Perhaps she is getting the tea, or strangling one of her poultry for dinner.
: Ann _________________ Charlotte is in fact in the scene.She is sitting at the end of the sofa that Darcy is sitting on with her back to the camera sitting up straight.Perhaps you missed it because Mr. Collins is talking all the time and Darcy keeps looking at Lizzy. _________________
Posted by kathleen on November 02, 1996 at 06:44:10:
: : : So nice to meet another ENFP. I was interested to see that N seems to be the common link. What does that say about us all I wonder? That we like Austen because she leaves so much to our intuition about human nature?
: : ___________________
: : That's an interpretation I don't remember from our early discussion of this, Brigid. Makes sense. I'm an INF JorP.
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: we're not all N - I'm a solid ISTJ.Please don't hold it against me ;)
: Anna
___________________
Another ISTJ -- me too!
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Eric on November 02, 1996 at 07:44:10:
: : : One thing that always bothered me about Lydia's invitation to Brighton was the way Kitty reacted to it. She had a right to be jealous, but as she herself said, she was not Mrs. Forster's "particular friend," and Lydia was. It doesn't matter that Kitty was older; Lydia was closer to Mrs. Forster. It was only natural that, if Mrs. Forster was going to invite one of the Bennet girls, she was going to invite Lydia to go with her.
: : : Did this bother anyone else or do you think that maybe Kitty had the right to the invitation (even though neither one of them should have been allowed to go)?
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Of course kitty was way off base! She is immature, selfish, and insipid, and almost completely out of control when she's around Lydia. Kitty is not rational, and so makes a mountain out of a mole-hill when Lydia gets the invitation. Of course, Lydia shouldn't be going either, but the mere fact that she does get to go clues us in to how much the Bennet family is malfunctioning at this point (Candace? Where are you with your dysfunctional family theories?). What was Mr. Bennet thinking?
: : - K
:
: ___________________
:
: Lydia is 15 years old, I know my parents would not let me go with people other then family unless they were very good friends and reliable people. Mrs. Foster did seem to be very silly and Mr. Foster to old to be able to watch over Lydia's whereabouts. Also Mr.B. had really no insight to Lydia really,{she wanted his attention} he just knew he did want to be annoyed by Lydia if she stayed home. I think Lydia thought since everyone liked Wickham including Lizzie, Mr.B and Mrs.B. she thought it was ok to take off with Wickham. Maybe Mrs. B. idea was right the whole family should of went then they could see Lydia in action. Maybe Kitty would of found her out. Really the only thing Lydia really wanted was the right kind of instruction from both her parents. You can't always blame the kids.
:
: ciao Donna
___________________
Mr. Bennet was thinking, I believe, what he claimed to be thinking: that Lydia must make a public spectacle of herself someplace before she learns, that no fortune-hunter would want her (she had no fortune), that Brighton offered an opportunity to let her make a spectacle of herself and get thoroughly embarrassed at comparatively little expense to himself and with a family that, on the surface, certainly appears respectable and responsible. He misunderstood Lydia in one particular alone. He honestly thought her capable of being embarrassed, of being shamed. He misunderstood the Forsters in two particulars. One, Mrs. Forster had to have been a silly, foolish lady if she wanted Lydia's company, and two, Col. Forster would necessarily be too busy to ride herd on both of them.
Lydia wanted not only the proper instruction from her parents, but the wit to comprehend it. You cannot always blame the parents, either. That Mr. Bennet was more judicious in his insights than his resolve is obvious. He failed Lydia. He should have been more resolute. Lydia, however, is a silly ass of a girl - and for that she bears full responsibility herself.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Eric on November 02, 1996 at 07:53:58:
: : : The problem I have is he rides up sees the path to :Pemberly then decides to take a swim gets off his horse :,they widen the view.As you say their is the wall, bales of :hey. The next time you see Mr. Darcy he is on the oppisite :side of the pond from where his horse is. There is no wall :, no bales of hey.
: : Yes, I too was puzzled by the wandering horse/pond. I suppose they were going for the most picturesque shot and thought no-one would watch it enough to wonder about the logistics
: : Anna
:
: ___________________
: I thought he just walked to the spot in the pond without all
: of the floating lilies in it. Though I don't know why he
: didn't just ride to that part of the pond.
: Ann
___________________
Maybe after riding all day up from London, he wished to stretch his legs before swimming. Maybe he wanted his horse to graze further back. Maybe the filmers wanted an excuse to have him take off his hat sooner as he looks better without that ponderous thing crammed on his crown. Maybe...
Follow Ups:
Posted by Eric on November 02, 1996 at 07:57:54:
:
: : : - also, way back at the Netherfield/'admire your figures' scene, the director has Bingley staring, like an idiot, at the fire place when surely he would be caught up in the striking conversation. (Also, the whole set-up of that room is off from one scene to another, as someone brought up before. Door, desk, fireplace, position of sofa seem off to me from one scene to another.)
: : : Does this mean I am obsessing???????? Grace
: :
: : ___________________
: : I have always been bugged by the blocking (who moves where
: : and when in a scene) in the scene after the Gardiners and
: : Lizzy leave Pemberley after dinner ("Yes, I did. But that
: : was only when I first knew her"). Darcy and Caroline follow
: : eachother around the room.
: : 1) She starts sitting on the couch,
: : he starts over at the wine then moves to the fireplace,
: : 2) She gets up and walks over by the wine--where he just was,
: : he sits down where she was sitting.
: : 3) She walks over to the fireplace--where he just was,
: : he walks back over by the wine--where she just was.
: : Maybe this was supposed to suggest that they were stalking
: : around eachother like cats, but it seems too circular, or
: : perhaps more acurately triangular, to me, and like movement
: : for movement's sake on the part of the director.
: : It's a small point, I know, but it still bugs me.
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: I agree Grace, once you notice Bingley is just sitting there at Netherfield staring into space, it's very distracting. They could have stuck with the book. Wasn't Jane well enough at this point to join them for a little while? So wasn't Bingley supposed to be engaged in earnest converstion with Jane near the fireplace while Darcy and Lizzy are having it out?
: I rather liked the Pemberley scene though, as you say Ann, there is no reason for all the walking about the room. Miss Bingley does walk well, and you get the impression that she's holding court in the room, and Darcy's the accused. Then his final outburst is like "OK, I'm guilty! I'm in love with her, so shoot me!"
: By the way, was that wine they were drinking? I thought it was coffee or some other warm beverage in that contraption.
: -Arnessa.
___________________
Probably port they were drinking. Coffee for the ladies, port for the men.
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