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Posted by Paula on November 01, 1996 at 13:38:56:
Isn't it funny, though, how this particular adaptation struck so many of us as being right on.
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I think this adaptation (P&P2) was the best because it was so long -- it takes time to unfold the complexity and subtleties of the plot and characters, which is what I liked best about the book.
The authentic music, settings and costumes contributed, along with good acting.
But this story would be hard to tell in 2 hours, you'd have to cut out a lot of the details and characterizations that make it interesting.
Posted by Janet on November 01, 1996 at 13:40:37:
:
: : No, I meant affront! Also in another thread (for which I am partly to blame), it was suggested that he developed his "arrogance, [his] conceit, and [his] selfish disdain of the feelings of others" for protection from characters such as the B. sisters, Lady C., Mr. C., the Bennets, etal. His may have been an "adapted front", as opposed to intentional dissimulation, but he got away with it all the same until he met Lizzy and was forced into behaviour modification.
: : Since he was successful in dissimilating his unpleasant behaviour, one may say that it was not inherent to his basic good moral character, and therefore, as you say, it was not a deliberate front. However, by his own admission in the conclusion, he does concede that he had "been a selfish being all [his] life, in practice though not in principle" and was "given good principles but left to follow them in pride and conceit". So perhaps his was more a mistake in interpretation of his own values and projection of his true self.
: : Blame me for the puppy; all he needs is a "little more liveliness, and that, if he marry prudently..." I missed the cat reference, but Mrs. Gardiner "thought him very sly; he hardly ever mentioned [Lizzy's] name. But slyness seems the fashion." After that is one of my favorite lines, "I shall never be quite happy till I have been all round the park."
: : : Janet
: : _________
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: ___________________
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: Very sly indeed!
: Yes, I agree that the front was a front (hee hee), but an unintentional one - something he adapted as an involuntary defense-mechanism rather than a calculated deception (thus we can say that he was NOT disimmulative in the conventioanl sense).
: - K
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Exactly, Kali! The front was not intentional, nor do I believe his tendency to affront was deliberate. While compared to Bingley he was perceived as "giving offence wherever he went", as you said his few well-chosen supporters, including Bingley, understood him to be "awe-ful". Others not close to him perceived him more as did Wickham who observed (ironically), that "the world is blinded by his fortune and consequence, or frightened by his high and imposing manners, and sees him only as he chooses to be seen." As "disguise is [his] abhorrence", he does not deliberately misrepresent himself. May Darcy be excused via a combination of being misunderstood, unenlightened and out-of-practice?
: Janet__________
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Posted by genie on November 01, 1996 at 13:52:58:
: : : : : : Some more pet peeves:
: : : : : - the Lizzy/Darcy dialogue (after fishing spots are pointed out) starts out on level ground, then the next sentence is spoken when they are already up the steps
: : : I always wonder about that too, because seems like a long distance,bad timing.I guessed.
: : Also from the far shot Darcy has his arms beside him and when they switch to the front shot, he is fiddling with his ring.
: : :
: : : : : - Darcy's nighttime candle/dog walk to the music room makes it appear that the room is at the end of the hall. (Isn't it downstairs?)
: : : Yes it is but if you notice the dogs weren't with him anymore,he came down with the dogs,so I figured he put the dogs out.
: : When Lizzy and the Gardiners were in the house, they went up the stairs just outside of the music room and then (evidently after some walking) came to the portrait gallary.
: : It looks as if he is retracing their steps.
: :
: : Also -- in the inn at Lambton, when Lizzy walks over to meet Georgiana, Mr. Darcy's arms are in different positions from the front and rear shots.
: : -- When Lady C comes to see Lizzy, Lizzy is holding the book one way in most of the shots and a different way in a few others.
: : Hand and arm continuity are something that I have started noticing in everything that I see multiple times (P&P2, Star Trek, other movies).
: : Anne
: :
: : ___________________
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: This is so funny we know this mini series inside out upside down,the little things don't bother me . I guess because we love it so much we hate to leave it alone.If we stopped talking about it, we would lose something of ourselves. We have to devour every little morsel good or bad. I love it.
: ciao Donna
: P.S. Amy I can't find the Italian Dic. no url found on this server.
:
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Although I love the production, there are a few things which I guess you could call pet peeves, besides the Pemberly steps with Lizzy and Darcy and the "Bingley staring idly at the fireplace " scene. These have already been discussed at length here. Another thing I noticed, and perhaps it has already been discussed before, takes place during the Lucas party. Elizabeth is talking to Colonel Forster about "subduing the French" and Mrs Bennet is standing there like she's drugged or something. Usually she would be dominating the conversation or at least bobbling enthusiastically. Here she's just wooden.
Another little anomaly I noticed took place at Rosings just after Darcy returns from Lizzy's refusal. He bounds up the stairs in the main hall, then soon gazes out the window
from what seems to be a ground floor room. Maybe you've already talked about this but I always thought it was a bit obvious and a bit odd.
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Posted by Kali on November 01, 1996 at 14:04:44:
: One thing that always bothered me about Lydia's invitation to Brighton was the way Kitty reacted to it. She had a right to be jealous, but as she herself said, she was not Mrs. Forster's "particular friend," and Lydia was. It doesn't matter that Kitty was older; Lydia was closer to Mrs. Forster. It was only natural that, if Mrs. Forster was going to invite one of the Bennet girls, she was going to invite Lydia to go with her.
: Did this bother anyone else or do you think that maybe Kitty had the right to the invitation (even though neither one of them should have been allowed to go)?
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Of course kitty was way off base! She is immature, selfish, and insipid, and almost completely out of control when she's around Lydia. Kitty is not rational, and so makes a mountain out of a mole-hill when Lydia gets the invitation. Of course, Lydia shouldn't be going either, but the mere fact that she does get to go clues us in to how much the Bennet family is malfunctioning at this point (Candace? Where are you with your dysfunctional family theories?). What was Mr. Bennet thinking?
- K
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Posted by Mari on November 01, 1996 at 14:12:38:
: I agree Grace, once you notice Bingley is just sitting there at Netherfield staring into space, it's very distracting. They could have stuck with the book. Wasn't Jane well enough at this point to join them for a little while? So wasn't Bingley supposed to be engaged in earnest converstion with Jane near the fireplace while Darcy and Lizzy are having it out?
: I rather liked the Pemberley scene though, as you say Ann, there is no reason for all the walking about the room. Miss Bingley does walk well, and you get the impression that she's holding court in the room, and Darcy's the accused. Then his final outburst is like "OK, I'm guilty! I'm in love with her, so shoot me!"
: By the way, was that wine they were drinking? I thought it was coffee or some other warm beverage in that contraption.
: -Arnessa.
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:
: :Arnessa, I love your courtroom analogy. Perry Mason has nothing on Miss Bingley.
: I think that they are drinking port; it would be the acceptable beverage after dinner for gentlemen.
:
: :Mari
Posted by Kali on November 01, 1996 at 14:14:12:
: : We now have two threads in which Darcy is referred to as cat-like. Are we on to something here?
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: All that bottled-up emotion. What will he ever do?
: ciao Donna
:
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Donna - I know that when my cats are uncomfortable, they sulk or lash out. When they're happy or amorous, they claw your legs or jump all over you. Is this helpful, or did you need this help in the first place? ;-)
Ann - what do YOU think about the cat analogy? Does it work? ;-)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on November 01, 1996 at 14:26:16:
May Darcy be excused via a combination of being misunderstood, unenlightened and out-of-practice?
: : Janet__________
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I think his front, as I said before, is an involuntary defense mechanism. He doesn't mean to be a jerk, but that's how he comes off when under attack by the situation. He says things to diffuse his own discomfort, but doesn't realize that in doing so he may be exhibiting offensive or childish behavior.
Yes, he is misunderstood, becuase people take him to be this awful, haughty, hateful man, which he isn't. He is unenlightened becuase he doesn't understand that other people are affected negatively by what he says and does. And, he is out-of-practice, I guess you could say, becuase he was brought up in an insular world in which he never truly learned how to comfortably relate to strangers. The years since his parents' deaths further contributed to his social inadequacy (serious work, no fun), and, well, I guess that's it!
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Posted by Alicia on November 01, 1996 at 14:33:52:
: "The Look" at Pemberley ... one of my favourite scenes.
: I just came across this image of Colin ... looking absolutely gorgeous!
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Ooops... I guess the image didn't show up correctly (sorry!). The image of Colin is on the P&P Photo Album page (go to the link below).
Link:
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Posted by Kali on November 01, 1996 at 14:35:09:
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: : Maybe I ought to periodically put up a sound clip from the Wizard of Oz. You know, when Glinda sings, "Come out, come out, wherever you are."
:
: ___________________
:
: I think the quote from the Wizard of Oz that would be most appropriate to this board would be "Pay no attention to the woman behind the curtain." 
: Speaking of obsessions, I have about twenty of the books from the Oz series at home (mostly paperbacks that I acquired cheap as remainders, though...)
: (By the way, if you go into sound clips you'll have no competition from me -- I don't really have access to sound-capable computers.)
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Holy Cow. When I was a kid, my dad read me EVERY SINGLE OZ BOOK in existence. That includes all the L.Frank Baums, the Ruth P. Thompsons, and the books by that other chick. He has a whole collection, a few of them first editions. Ozma was, and still is, a goddess (very Lizzy-like in many ways).
In silver slippers seen through emerald glasses,
K
Posted by Johanne on November 01, 1996 at 14:35:35:
: : I am a avid lurker(?) of this bb and a very seldom poster to it, but I have been here almost from the start, and find that I cannot go many days without checking in.
: : ___________________
: : Terese,
: : Recent but avid lurker as well, this is my first poster to it. Wednesday night was the last episode P&P2, dubed, which aired on the french cbc (yes, no original voices). Neadless to say, I am obsessing since the first episode. Love this BB, reading the posts (funny comments get me bursting with lafter, while working on my computer (job) and doing the laundry. How conforting to find others loving a good romance. Francophone, only recently was I introduced to the JA world, particularly when I fell in love with the film version of Emma, this summer. Since then, I've been expanding my horizon. Au risque de me repeter, many many thanks, Amy
: :
: : Johanne de Montreal
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Posted by Amy on November 01, 1996 at 14:53:55:
Thanks. That's a keeper. It get set as my wallpaper now.
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Posted by Janice on November 01, 1996 at 14:57:43:
I checked the Photo Album page. What a treat! Thank you. Camera just loves CF. I find him gorgeous even in a rag T-shirt in "Hostage" :)
Posted by Johanne on November 01, 1996 at 15:02:44:
: "The Look" at Pemberley ... one of my favourite scenes.
: I just came across this image of Colin ... looking absolutely gorgeous!
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What a beautiful picture! How graceful. To bad my vcr went kaput at the beginning of the 4th part of this series. So for me, it only begins when Darcy is telling it to Miss Bingley, She as become one the most beautiful women I know. Can't wait to see the original version (the one I saw was dubbed in french)for the missing parts (of which I presume there is others)and to hear their voices...
Johanne of Montreal
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Posted by Janice on November 01, 1996 at 15:09:04:
: Thanks. That's a keeper. It get set as my wallpaper now.
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I would like to make it a screen saver. I know very little about computer, but for that "look", I will try.
Posted by Amy on November 01, 1996 at 15:14:21:
Alicia, you have given us a treasure. My very favorite moment -- not just in the movie but maybe of anything. I never slobber excpet when I take naps, but I declare my keyboard is shorting out from the drool.
I am thinking of a bathroom tile along these lines. What say you? I shall have fun manipulating this image as it is not just a picture but an idea with me. Very nearly spiritual I dare say.
(I dare say I've lost it this time.)
Amy
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Posted by Mich on November 01, 1996 at 15:21:38:
: ___________________
: I would also have enjoyed seeing the Aunt and Uncle slowly becoming aware that Darcy was in love with Lizzy--something we were denied in P&P2. In fact, the aunt and uncle seemed to have been used only for the initial meeting scene, as far as playing important roles in the goings on. (The visit of Lizzy and Mrs. Gardiner to Miss Darcy, et al, while Mr. Gardiner joined Darcy fishing.
: :Tommye
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If I may also join in.
I would agree with you except for two scenes. The first is when Lizzie and Mrs.G are walking behind Darcy and Mr.G
and Mrs. G says "can you not" to Lizzie after talking about what could have changed Darcy's proud disagreeable nature.
The second is the evening visit when Darcy is watching Lizzie sing, Mr.G turns and watchs Darcy watching Lizzie. I have always thought any suspision he may have had were confirmed at that moment. With that look who could doubt Darcys love.
Mich
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Posted by Mich on November 01, 1996 at 15:25:21:
: : : : (How I wish I knew how to write out pronunciation like Professor Higgins. I thought Hannahs's accent charming.)
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : Speaking of accents, when they all get back to Longbourne
: : : and Kitty passes the potatoes to her aunt and says "And that's
: : : the first kind word I've had since Lydia went away...", is
: : : that a Welsh accent the actress has? It sounds different to
: : : me from the usual BBC accent.
: : : Ann
: :
: : ___________________
: : I don't think so. A Welsh accent is much more sing-song, however, I'll admit it is difficult to tell.
: : Bernie
: :
: : ___________________
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: ___________________
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: I think Lizzie should hire Hannah to work at Pemberly. Silly isn't it. Just based on what Uncle G. said about her.
: ciao Donna
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I ahve always thought the same thing. Hannah is such a nice girl.
mich
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Posted by Mich on November 01, 1996 at 15:28:56:
: : As I've already said, I tend to dislike deviations from the text,
: : even in P&P2. One such deviation that seems to me to detract
: : rather than add to the plot is the changes to the tour through
: : Pemberly. Mr Darcy senior's favorite room becomes Mrs Darcy's
: : favorite room, and the minatures, including Darcy and Wickham,
: : are moved in the stairwell. Now, as Austen points out, leaving
: : Mr Darcy senior's favorite room as it was when he was alive is
: : the only likely reason Darcy would have had for keeping Wickham's
: : portrait about - in P&P2 I can think of no reason for it being
: : there, and this grates on me, particularly as I can't see that
: : it was necessary for technical reasons. Does anyone else have
: : this problem?
: : Another minor fault with episode 4 is the poor state of the dry
: : stone walls in the background as Darcy is galloping up to the
: : pond - at least half has fallen down. I'm sure Mr Darcy would
: : never have allowed such a state at Pemberly, and, besides,
: : enclosure had only just occurred - the walls would have been
: : almost new in 1812.
: : Anna.
:
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:
: The problem I have with this scene is he rides up sees the path to Pemberly then decides to take a swim gets off his horse ,they widen the view.As you say their is the wall, bales of hey. The next time you see Mr. Darcy he is on the oppisite side of the pond from where his horse is. There is no wall , no bales of hey. If he got off his horse and walk to the other side to swim back to his horse. It is the wrong view,unless he got back on the horse and switched sides.Which doesn't makes sense.The horse must be on the side where the path is to Pemberly. Did anyone else notice this?
:
: Thanks, Donna
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I am impressed by your attention to detail. I must admit I have never been able to take my eyes off Darcy. I will watch this scene much closer this evening.
Mich
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