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Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 23:40:51:
Wow! This BB now has an Ann, an Anne, an Ann2, an Anna, and an Anna-Karen. This is getting out of hannd!
Ann :-)
Posted by Stefanie on November 01, 1996 at 00:20:20:
: : All Mr. Collins had to offer was a religious experience.
___________________
Too bad for Charlotte that it wasn't celibate!!
Stefanie
Posted by Arnessa on November 01, 1996 at 00:55:28:
: Welcome Tay,
: Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar will you? My kids will not give.
: URL is:
:
: http://bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/ppbb.html
:
That's good. But what about "thereitis.com" I am remembering your inspired mini-site. (But now I look at it closer "thereitis" without spaces looks like some dread disease.) You know, I noticed in Moll Flanders, which also had a Andrew Davies script, they also used "but, there it is" a lot. It's starting to creep into my conversations as well. I know, I know I need to get a life, but there it is.
-Arnessa
Posted by Anna on November 01, 1996 at 01:13:58:
: The problem I have is he rides up sees the path to :Pemberly then decides to take a swim gets off his horse :,they widen the view.As you say their is the wall, bales of :hey. The next time you see Mr. Darcy he is on the oppisite :side of the pond from where his horse is. There is no wall :, no bales of hey.
Yes, I too was puzzled by the wandering horse/pond. I suppose they were going for the most picturesque shot and thought no-one would watch it enough to wonder about the logistics
Anna
Posted by Arnessa on November 01, 1996 at 01:25:04:
: : - also, way back at the Netherfield/'admire your figures' scene, the director has Bingley staring, like an idiot, at the fire place when surely he would be caught up in the striking conversation. (Also, the whole set-up of that room is off from one scene to another, as someone brought up before. Door, desk, fireplace, position of sofa seem off to me from one scene to another.)
: : Does this mean I am obsessing???????? Grace
:
: ___________________
: I have always been bugged by the blocking (who moves where
: and when in a scene) in the scene after the Gardiners and
: Lizzy leave Pemberley after dinner ("Yes, I did. But that
: was only when I first knew her"). Darcy and Caroline follow
: eachother around the room.
: 1) She starts sitting on the couch,
: he starts over at the wine then moves to the fireplace,
: 2) She gets up and walks over by the wine--where he just was,
: he sits down where she was sitting.
: 3) She walks over to the fireplace--where he just was,
: he walks back over by the wine--where she just was.
: Maybe this was supposed to suggest that they were stalking
: around eachother like cats, but it seems too circular, or
: perhaps more acurately triangular, to me, and like movement
: for movement's sake on the part of the director.
: It's a small point, I know, but it still bugs me.
: Ann
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I agree Grace, once you notice Bingley is just sitting there at Netherfield staring into space, it's very distracting. They could have stuck with the book. Wasn't Jane well enough at this point to join them for a little while? So wasn't Bingley supposed to be engaged in earnest converstion with Jane near the fireplace while Darcy and Lizzy are having it out?
I rather liked the Pemberley scene though, as you say Ann, there is no reason for all the walking about the room. Miss Bingley does walk well, and you get the impression that she's holding court in the room, and Darcy's the accused. Then his final outburst is like "OK, I'm guilty! I'm in love with her, so shoot me!"
By the way, was that wine they were drinking? I thought it was coffee or some other warm beverage in that contraption.
-Arnessa.
Posted by Janet on November 01, 1996 at 01:54:02:
:
: : : : Maybe this is why he's got such inner steel - he's had to "grow up" rather quickly for a young man in his class and position. No wonder he has trouble dealing with people in general - he really doen't "fit" in with most men of his age and class, nor is he comfortable with people "below" him. Gotta love him - he's got resolve!
: : : : - K
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : So...Darcy's *not* rude, arrogant, and obnoxious... he's just misunderstood! ;-)
: : : Cheryl
: :
: : __________
: : It's all a(f)front - which he does resolve!
: : : Janet_________
: ___________________
: No, No, Janet. It can't be a front because (a few postings up we discovered that) Darcy was NOT dissimulative!
: :Tommye
: :::P.S.
: Of course, also in a previous posting, we saw that Darcy was referred to as a "Puppy" and also like a little "cat." So perhaps in an effort to avoid being dissimulative, Darcy attempted to behave like a puppy and/or a cat, but his actions came off rude, arrogant and obnoxious, and, obviously, misunderstood.
: What do you think?
: ::TOMMYE
__________
No, I meant affront! Also in another thread (for which I am partly to blame), it was suggested that he developed his "arrogance, [his] conceit, and [his] selfish disdain of the feelings of others" for protection from characters such as the B. sisters, Lady C., Mr. C., the Bennets, etal. His may have been an "adapted front", as opposed to intentional dissimulation, but he got away with it all the same until he met Lizzy and was forced into behaviour modification.
Since he was successful in dissimilating his unpleasant behaviour, one may say that it was not inherent to his basic good moral character, and therefore, as you say, it was not a deliberate front. However, by his own admission in the conclusion, he does concede that he had "been a selfish being all [his] life, in practice though not in principle" and was "given good principles but left to follow them in pride and conceit". So perhaps his was more a mistake in interpretation of his own values and projection of his true self.
Blame me for the puppy; all he needs is a "little more liveliness, and that, if he marry prudently..." I missed the cat reference, but Mrs. Gardiner "thought him very sly; he hardly ever mentioned [Lizzy's] name. But slyness seems the fashion." After that is one of my favorite lines, "I shall never be quite happy till I have been all round the park."
: Janet
_________
Posted by Arnessa on November 01, 1996 at 01:55:53:
: : through the grounds. I find the urge to immediate flight shown
: : in P&P2 more believable -
: ___________________
:
: Absolutely agree. She would have made haste.
___________________
Oh, I dunno. Maybe the reaction just is more believable to us, with our 20th century eyes. I think in the book Austen makes clear that Lizzy's first goal is to avoid any questions, any appearance even that there had been more than a slight acquaintance between her and Darcy. (I particularly love how she tells the housekeeper she knows Darcy "a little." I wonder what she told the housekeeper when she moved into Pemberley?) So I think that her obvious discomposure after meeting Darcy is slightly unusual because it opens her up to questions from her aunt and uncle. And I think it's a little strange that she's able to brush off their questions so easily. But still, in the film it works. We feel immediately how uncomfortable Lizzy is. She is as uncomfortable in the novel, as I remember, and she does want to get out of there ASAP, but her discomfort doesn't have such a strong outward manifestation. When her aunt and uncle start to notice her silence, she also makes an effort to appear more like herself.
I don't mind generally when a film diverges from a novel if there's a good reason to. The demands of film are so different.
-Arnessa.
Follow Ups:
Posted by janet on November 01, 1996 at 02:02:32:
: : What a puppy he is!
: : : Janet__________
:
: ___________________
:
: Arf! ; )
: In some ways, definitely yes! But he pretends to be casually unimpressed with everything, just like a cat!
: - K
__________
So here's the cat! Yes, how adaptive he is! A complex personality indeed.
: Janet _________
Posted by Joan, too on November 01, 1996 at 02:23:28:
: Arnessa:
: I don't mind generally when a film diverges from a novel if there's a good reason to. The demands of film are so different.
Yes, this is "a" - if not "the - material point in comparing book and film versions. Some things that work exquisitely in print would die a slow death on film, and vice versa.
: : I find the urge to immediate flight shown
: : in P&P2 more believable -
: ___________________
: Absolutely agree. She would have made haste.
I agree that there would be a strong urge to make haste, but I also think that she would have made more of an attempt to resist it, since departing in precipitous haste is a dead give-away that something is up!
I felt that the haste made in the film, while quite well motivated, was a bit out of character for Lizzie in that she would not have wanted to behave in a manner that would cause her aunt and uncle to suspect anything - - though on the other hand, her attempt at a hasty retreat served the purpose of motivating the Gardiners suspicion that Darcy had "another interest in the affair" of rescuing Lydia, since much of the Pemberley socialization which, in the book, gave the Gardiners opportunity to observe L & D and form such a suspicion was omitted from the film.
Joan, too
Posted by Raewyn on November 01, 1996 at 03:07:02:
: : Thanks for letting us know you are there. Any other lurkers who care to just pop their heads out from behind the fern and say you are among us? We would like to know, but if you don't care to that's okay too.
: : Amy
: I visit the P&P bb all the time (but rarely post), but not as much as I wish. As a college student, I should be studying. However, I use this bb as a study break. Just wanted to acknowledge my passion for P&P!
: Kelley
___________________
I'm meant to be studying for exams at the moment too. Concentrating on study is so difficult when there're so many tempting distractions such as this BB.
I promise to de-lurk myself in approx 1 week, after which I've got no more exams! I love reading these posts - it's very comforting to know that there are people around who are more obsessed with p&p than me :-)
I have to admit I've only seen p&p2 once. Actually the last part was only shown here about a month ago so I haven't had much time to obsess over it yet, although I've done my share of obsessing over the book. All this discussion has inspired me to obtain the video when my exmas finish.
Raewyn
Posted by Hilary on November 01, 1996 at 03:28:24:
: I could not find the message where you asked about Ann's costume list. I agree. The life of that work deserves to be longer than four days. So now the list is linked to the FAQ.
: Amy
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Thanks Amy, I'll go and have a good look.
Hilary
Posted by Kali on November 01, 1996 at 04:04:03:
: No, I meant affront! Also in another thread (for which I am partly to blame), it was suggested that he developed his "arrogance, [his] conceit, and [his] selfish disdain of the feelings of others" for protection from characters such as the B. sisters, Lady C., Mr. C., the Bennets, etal. His may have been an "adapted front", as opposed to intentional dissimulation, but he got away with it all the same until he met Lizzy and was forced into behaviour modification.
: Since he was successful in dissimilating his unpleasant behaviour, one may say that it was not inherent to his basic good moral character, and therefore, as you say, it was not a deliberate front. However, by his own admission in the conclusion, he does concede that he had "been a selfish being all [his] life, in practice though not in principle" and was "given good principles but left to follow them in pride and conceit". So perhaps his was more a mistake in interpretation of his own values and projection of his true self.
: Blame me for the puppy; all he needs is a "little more liveliness, and that, if he marry prudently..." I missed the cat reference, but Mrs. Gardiner "thought him very sly; he hardly ever mentioned [Lizzy's] name. But slyness seems the fashion." After that is one of my favorite lines, "I shall never be quite happy till I have been all round the park."
: : Janet
: _________
___________________
Very sly indeed!
Yes, I agree that the front was a front (hee hee), but an unintentional one - something he adapted as an involuntary defense-mechanism rather than a calculated deception (thus we can say that he was NOT disimmulative in the conventioanl sense).
- K
Follow Ups:
Posted by Lyn on November 01, 1996 at 05:45:50:
: : (How I wish I knew how to write out pronunciation like Professor Higgins. I thought Hannahs's accent charming.)
:
: ___________________
: Speaking of accents, when they all get back to Longbourne
: and Kitty passes the potatoes to her aunt and says "And that's
: the first kind word I've had since Lydia went away...", is
: that a Welsh accent the actress has? It sounds different to
: me from the usual BBC accent.
: Ann
___________________
Nope, Julia Sawhalia is English, though I believe her father is Middle Eastern
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on November 01, 1996 at 08:41:57:
: : : : Some more pet peeves:
: : : - the Lizzy/Darcy dialogue (after fishing spots are pointed out) starts out on level ground, then the next sentence is spoken when they are already up the steps
: I always wonder about that too, because seems like a long distance,bad timing.I guessed.
Also from the far shot Darcy has his arms beside him and when they switch to the front shot, he is fiddling with his ring.
:
: : : - Darcy's nighttime candle/dog walk to the music room makes it appear that the room is at the end of the hall. (Isn't it downstairs?)
: Yes it is but if you notice the dogs weren't with him anymore,he came down with the dogs,so I figured he put the dogs out.
When Lizzy and the Gardiners were in the house, they went up the stairs just outside of the music room and then (evidently after some walking) came to the portrait gallary.
It looks as if he is retracing their steps.
Also -- in the inn at Lambton, when Lizzy walks over to meet Georgiana, Mr. Darcy's arms are in different positions from the front and rear shots.
-- When Lady C comes to see Lizzy, Lizzy is holding the book one way in most of the shots and a different way in a few others.
Hand and arm continuity are something that I have started noticing in everything that I see multiple times (P&P2, Star Trek, other movies).
Anne
___________________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on November 01, 1996 at 08:48:39:
: : through the grounds. I find the urge to immediate flight shown
: : in P&P2 more believable -
: ___________________
:
: Absolutely agree. She would have made haste.
___________________
She had mentioned to her aunt and uncle before that she would feel strange visiting Pemberley without a proper invitation and only went as the family was not there. Now the family (or the main part of it) was there - and someone that she professed to dislike. The scene could have been taken by her aunt and uncle as just being embarrassed to have imposed.
-- My question -- where is the large party that was coming up? In the video it is just the normal Bingley crowd (where the book does mention other people).
Anne
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on November 01, 1996 at 08:52:28:
___________________
This would have been Polly Maberly -- does anyone know anything about her?
Anne
Posted by Ann2 on November 01, 1996 at 09:38:11:
:
: :
: Although we don't get as much of the Gardiners as in the book, I think we do see some evidence that they realise Darcy has it bad for Lizzy;
: Just after the second meet at Pemberly, as Mr Gardiner and Darcy have gone down to the lake and Lizzy and Mrs Gardiner are following, I've always thought Mrs Gardiner's "Can you not" in reply to Lizzy's saying she can't understand the reason for Darcy's changed behaviour meant that Mrs Gardiner could tell that Darcy was bowled over by Lizzy. Anna
I have a third piece of evidence to lay before you: Mrs Gardiner deliberately hurries down to her husband to take his arm as she is *so exhausted* - this happens in the book too mind you! - and *I* think this was to enable Darcy to do what he most (well within the limits of propriety at least) wanted to, walk up to Lizzy and take his place by her side. Ann2
: Also, whilst Lizzy is playing Voi Che Sapete on the piano at Pemberly andDarcy is looking totally smitten, we see Mr Gardiner taking a long look at Darcy I'm sure he realised what was going on, I'm only surprised everyone else didn't!
: Anna.
___________________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on November 01, 1996 at 09:56:05:
: : : : : Some more pet peeves:
: : : : - the Lizzy/Darcy dialogue (after fishing spots are pointed out) starts out on level ground, then the next sentence is spoken when they are already up the steps
: : I always wonder about that too, because seems like a long distance,bad timing.I guessed.
: Also from the far shot Darcy has his arms beside him and when they switch to the front shot, he is fiddling with his ring.
: :
: : : : - Darcy's nighttime candle/dog walk to the music room makes it appear that the room is at the end of the hall. (Isn't it downstairs?)
: : Yes it is but if you notice the dogs weren't with him anymore,he came down with the dogs,so I figured he put the dogs out.
: When Lizzy and the Gardiners were in the house, they went up the stairs just outside of the music room and then (evidently after some walking) came to the portrait gallary.
: It looks as if he is retracing their steps.
:
: Also -- in the inn at Lambton, when Lizzy walks over to meet Georgiana, Mr. Darcy's arms are in different positions from the front and rear shots.
: -- When Lady C comes to see Lizzy, Lizzy is holding the book one way in most of the shots and a different way in a few others.
: Hand and arm continuity are something that I have started noticing in everything that I see multiple times (P&P2, Star Trek, other movies).
: Anne
:
: ___________________
___________________
This is so funny we know this mini series inside out upside down,the little things don't bother me . I guess because we love it so much we hate to leave it alone.If we stopped talking about it, we would lose something of ourselves. We have to devour every little morsel good or bad. I love it.
ciao Donna
P.S. Amy I can't find the Italian Dic. no url found on this server.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on November 01, 1996 at 10:19:57:
: : : James Mason, ooaah (like in The scent of a Woman)
: : ___________________
: :
: : Now, Pacino's voice has something too. Don't you think? What is it?
:
: ___________________
: Yes, it's gravely, and husky, and emphatic, he has a nice rhythm to his words, and is basically sexy as all get-out!
: Oh dear, Amy- another link!
: Cheryl
___________________
Pacino´s voice is not in my sound memory file (though I know I like him...migth be a connection there). Shall see if I can get a quick look at some scene from the Good father tapes.. no hearing rather.
Saw a terrible old film where Burton played an indian physician and there was something firtinese in his voice.
Ann2
Posted by Donna on November 01, 1996 at 10:21:02:
: :
: : :
: : Although we don't get as much of the Gardiners as in the book, I think we do see some evidence that they realise Darcy has it bad for Lizzy;
: : Just after the second meet at Pemberly, as Mr Gardiner and Darcy have gone down to the lake and Lizzy and Mrs Gardiner are following, I've always thought Mrs Gardiner's "Can you not" in reply to Lizzy's saying she can't understand the reason for Darcy's changed behaviour meant that Mrs Gardiner could tell that Darcy was bowled over by Lizzy. Anna
: I have a third piece of evidence to lay before you: Mrs Gardiner deliberately hurries down to her husband to take his arm as she is *so exhausted* - this happens in the book too mind you! - and *I* think this was to enable Darcy to do what he most (well within the limits of propriety at least) wanted to, walk up to Lizzy and take his place by her side. Ann2
: : Also, whilst Lizzy is playing Voi Che Sapete on the piano at Pemberly andDarcy is looking totally smitten, we see Mr Gardiner taking a long look at Darcy I'm sure he realised what was going on, I'm only surprised everyone else didn't!
: : Anna.
:
: ___________________
___________________
When you talk about this subject this comes to my mind.
Chapter 44: The whole party before them,indeed,excited a lively attention. The suspicions which had just arisen of Mr.Darcy and their niece directed their observation towards
each with an earnest through guarded inquiry; and they soon drew from those inquiries the full conviction that one of them at least knew what it was to love. Of the lady's sensations they remained a little in doubt but that the gentleman was overflowing with admiration was evident enough. {What can I say it is wonderful,wonderful wonderful.}
ciao Donna,
Follow Ups:
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