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Posted by Grace on October 31, 1996 at 22:01:15:
: : As I've already said, I tend to dislike deviations from the text,
: : even in P&P2. One such deviation that seems to me to detract
: : rather than add to the plot is the changes to the tour through
: : Pemberly. Mr Darcy senior's favorite room becomes Mrs Darcy's
: : favorite room, and the minatures, including Darcy and Wickham,
: : are moved in the stairwell.: Another minor fault with episode 4 is the poor state of the dry
: : stone walls in the background as Darcy is galloping up to the
: : pond - at least half has fallen down.
:
: ___________________
:
: I too found these irritating -- there is no reason for Wickham's minature to be there. LOL I always thought that those half-ruined stone walls really indicated that Darcy was not as good a proprietor as "his" people are trying to indicate. While in the book, Mrs. Reynolds does say that Darcy spends half his time in Pemberley--it certainly does not really seem so from what we know in the book for that year -- most of it was in London or with Bingley, nor is that impression really given in P&P2. He was sometimes not as careful about his property as he should be, I guess.
: Rebecca
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: Some more pet peeves:
- the Lizzy/Darcy dialogue (after fishing spots are pointed out) starts out on level ground, then the next sentence is spoken when they are already up the steps
- Darcy's nighttime candle/dog walk to the music room makes it appear that the room is at the end of the hall. (Isn't it downstairs?)
- also, way back at the Netherfield/'admire your figures' scene, the director has Bingley staring, like an idiot, at the fire place when surely he would be caught up in the striking conversation. (Also, the whole set-up of that room is off from one scene to another, as someone brought up before. Door, desk, fireplace, position of sofa seem off to me from one scene to another.)
Does this mean I am obsessing???????? Grace
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 31, 1996 at 22:03:22:
I also love Mr. G's line about the inn being in all amazement at the honor of Darcy's visit.
: Grace
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Yes! I'd like more community reaction. We do get an ever so subtle little hint as to how impressed the staff were, when Hannah in an appropriately half-out-of- breath, obliging way calls from the window,
"And one of them is Mr. Darcy!"
(How I wish I knew how to write out pronunciation like Professor Higgins. I thought Hannahs's accent charming.)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 22:08:34:
: I could not find the message where you asked about Ann's costume list. I agree. The life of that work deserves to be longer than four days. So now the list is linked to the FAQ.
: Amy
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Thank you Amy. I especially appreciate the subtitle ;-).
Ann
Posted by Amy on October 31, 1996 at 22:08:38:
RE: Netherfield drawing room
Door, desk, fireplace, position of sofa seem off to me from one scene to another.)
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Oh good. When I brought this up before no one else mentioned they felt the same disequalibrium.
Posted by Grace on October 31, 1996 at 22:17:30:
: : Not necessarily...while Mr. Darcy is steadfastness itself, Mr. Firth is...shall we say...not.
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
: Very good point Cheryl. From everything I've read about
: Firth he seems a bit....well, thick (in the head for those
: who remember the daggy thread).
: Ann
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: My impression is that Firth will help his career by cultivating an air of mystery....and saying as little as possible.
Grace
P.S. You will note my restraint in not commenting further on Ann's references.
Posted by Grace on October 31, 1996 at 22:29:38:
: :
: Oh dear, Amy, you have inadvertantly hit upon another of my obsessions! I have Oz sound clips all over my computer (error message says "and what would you do with a brain if you had one?"). My family even gave me an Oz mousepad last Christmas- Dorothy and the gang looking over the field of poppies to the Emerald City. Cool.
: Cheryl
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: Talking about Oz reminded me: When everyone was gushing over Darcy bouncing through the buttercups, I kept thinking of Dorothy and the winged monkeys --- weren't there buttercups somewhere in their meeting? Weird, I know, but it did come to mind for some reason.
Grace
Posted by Donna on October 31, 1996 at 22:34:56:
: As I've already said, I tend to dislike deviations from the text,
: even in P&P2. One such deviation that seems to me to detract
: rather than add to the plot is the changes to the tour through
: Pemberly. Mr Darcy senior's favorite room becomes Mrs Darcy's
: favorite room, and the minatures, including Darcy and Wickham,
: are moved in the stairwell. Now, as Austen points out, leaving
: Mr Darcy senior's favorite room as it was when he was alive is
: the only likely reason Darcy would have had for keeping Wickham's
: portrait about - in P&P2 I can think of no reason for it being
: there, and this grates on me, particularly as I can't see that
: it was necessary for technical reasons. Does anyone else have
: this problem?
: Another minor fault with episode 4 is the poor state of the dry
: stone walls in the background as Darcy is galloping up to the
: pond - at least half has fallen down. I'm sure Mr Darcy would
: never have allowed such a state at Pemberly, and, besides,
: enclosure had only just occurred - the walls would have been
: almost new in 1812.
: Anna.
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The problem I have with this scene is he rides up sees the path to Pemberly then decides to take a swim gets off his horse ,they widen the view.As you say their is the wall, bales of hey. The next time you see Mr. Darcy he is on the oppisite side of the pond from where his horse is. There is no wall , no bales of hey. If he got off his horse and walk to the other side to swim back to his horse. It is the wrong view,unless he got back on the horse and switched sides.Which doesn't makes sense.The horse must be on the side where the path is to Pemberly. Did anyone else notice this?
Thanks, Donna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 22:35:18:
: : Some more pet peeves:
: - the Lizzy/Darcy dialogue (after fishing spots are pointed out) starts out on level ground, then the next sentence is spoken when they are already up the steps
: - Darcy's nighttime candle/dog walk to the music room makes it appear that the room is at the end of the hall. (Isn't it downstairs?)
: - also, way back at the Netherfield/'admire your figures' scene, the director has Bingley staring, like an idiot, at the fire place when surely he would be caught up in the striking conversation. (Also, the whole set-up of that room is off from one scene to another, as someone brought up before. Door, desk, fireplace, position of sofa seem off to me from one scene to another.)
: Does this mean I am obsessing???????? Grace
___________________
I have always been bugged by the blocking (who moves where
and when in a scene) in the scene after the Gardiners and
Lizzy leave Pemberley after dinner ("Yes, I did. But that
was only when I first knew her"). Darcy and Caroline follow
eachother around the room.
1) She starts sitting on the couch,
he starts over at the wine then moves to the fireplace,
2) She gets up and walks over by the wine--where he just was,
he sits down where she was sitting.
3) She walks over to the fireplace--where he just was,
he walks back over by the wine--where she just was.
Maybe this was supposed to suggest that they were stalking
around eachother like cats, but it seems too circular, or
perhaps more acurately triangular, to me, and like movement
for movement's sake on the part of the director.
It's a small point, I know, but it still bugs me.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 22:41:53:
: I like how she freaks after running into him. He makes for the house, the Gardiners pop onto the scene, and she all but throws up her hands and shreiks in frustration as she trudges off, insisting that they'd better get the heck away from there (sexual tension!). A beautifully-played reaction by JE - and very realistic, too. I know I would have probably reacted in much the same way.
: - K
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I always thought that Ehle played the scene when she is talking with Darcy (the first time) much to calmly. After the initial surprise she seems too calm and collected. Only after he is gone again, does she freak adequately.
Ann
p.s. Is it my imagination or does Firth begin to stop just as he is about to round the bushes and get out of camera range--like he already thinks he is out of the camera shot, but actually isn't. Sometimes I think he does slow suddenly, and other times I'm not sure.
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 22:46:32:
: (How I wish I knew how to write out pronunciation like Professor Higgins. I thought Hannahs's accent charming.)
___________________
Speaking of accents, when they all get back to Longbourne
and Kitty passes the potatoes to her aunt and says "And that's
the first kind word I've had since Lydia went away...", is
that a Welsh accent the actress has? It sounds different to
me from the usual BBC accent.
Ann
Posted by Grace on October 31, 1996 at 22:49:10:
: :
: : : Nice to have you back, Amy. I like the new dashing 'P&P'.
: : : I had a feeling you weren't serious but at six in the morning I couldn't be sure! And after 2 gruelling days relief teaching I'm not in much better shape now. I never saw 'Paint your Wagon', but I remember the tuneless song alright. Thanks for the Hinds link. I like him too. The thing that really interested me when I took a glance at the link was that he is in 'Oskar and Lucinda'. Does anyone else know this book? Its brilliant! By Peter Carey (an Aussie now resident in NY). Won the Booker prize some years back. The film is directed by Gillian Armstrong ('The Piano??) and also stars Fiennes and Barry Otto (who was in 'Bliss', another adaptation of a Carey novel, my favourite) Looks like one to look out for.
: : : Hilary
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : : I don't know either 'Oskar and Lucinda' or 'Bliss' - will try to get the books this week (thanks!).
: : Wonder if the films are generally available. Gillian Armstrong did such a wonderful job with 'Little Women', I can't imagine any film of hers being less than gorgeous.
: : Grace
: : P.S. Substitute teaching is hell. Years ago, I thought I wanted to be a high school math teacher, inspiring young minds,etc. One week with a ninth-grade algebra group quickly killed that ambition.
:
: ___________________
: It looks like the film 'O&L' won't be out till 1997. I think 'Bliss' is a mid-eighties Aust production, so could be hard to get - you'll have to tell me, if you try. The book is better than the film.
: The books are nothing like JA; I can't think of anything they are like, to give you an idea. 'O&L' is set in the past, but breathtakingly bizarre in conception. 'Bliss' is gentler in many ways, and partly funny, and has the happier ending. The other one of his I like is a great tome called 'Illywacker'. (If all the shops have is 'The Tax Inspector', don't read it first. Its a good book but terribly black.) The thing I like best about his stuff is his use of language. I'll look forward to seeing if you agree. BTW I really enjoyed '1000 Acres'. Any more suggestions?
: Two other Aust authors I love are Tim Winton ('The Riders' is better known, but I prefer 'Cloud Street') and David Malouf ('The Great World' is very good).
: Hilary
: PS. Re: the Relief teaching - I'd love to switch to my puppet and theatre making work entirely, but Canberra is too small to support many theatres. That work is rather sporadic unfortunatly.
___________________
: I tried to get the Carey books today at the library; will have to wait for them to be ordered from the network. (I'm still waiting for 'The English Patient',too). Haven't read anything memorable lately to suggest to you. (Austen is my antidote to all the junk I tend to pick up.)
I did just buy 'The Duchess of Bloomsbury Street' by Helene Hanff and can't wait to get into it. (She wrote '84 Charing Cross Road', collected letters to her London book dealer after WW2 -- a treasure of a little book. Also, her 'Underfoot in Show Business' is a riot, a true story of her early days in NY -- makes you wish she were your friend.She would belong on this board, without doubt.)
Must look for the other authors you mention (all new to me).
Thanks, Grace
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 22:50:50:
: The other hint that we get that she has a change of heart is that as she and Maria are heading home in the carriage she thinks of Darcy saying how much he ardently admires her. I think that the look on her face suggests that she is suprised that she is thinking of this.
___________________
Also the "Perhaps we should say that Mary King is safe" line shows that she now believes what Darcy wrote about Wickham.
Ann
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 22:58:40:
: In the book Bingley and Darcy spend a lot of time with the Bennets after returning to Netherfield (rather than the one visit that the video shows). I believe that the Lucas family just assumed that this was leading somewhere - not that they were actually engaged. I believe Lady C heard of the assumption and jumped to a conclusion -- or Mr. Collins passed along the information in that manner.
: Anne
___________________
Charlotte had probably gossiped to her family about Darcy's
behavior toward Lizzy in Kent, giving them a "heads up" so
to speak that something might be going on there. Then with
the two visits Bingley and Darcy make to Longbourne, their
already aroused suspicions might have taken on solidity.
Ann
Posted by Donna on October 31, 1996 at 23:05:44:
: : : Some more pet peeves:
: : - the Lizzy/Darcy dialogue (after fishing spots are pointed out) starts out on level ground, then the next sentence is spoken when they are already up the steps
I always wonder about that too, because seems like a long distance,bad timing.I guessed.
: : - Darcy's nighttime candle/dog walk to the music room makes it appear that the room is at the end of the hall. (Isn't it downstairs?)
Yes it is but if you notice the dogs weren't with him anymore,he came down with the dogs,so I figured he put the dogs out.
: - also, way back at the Netherfield/'admire your figures' scene, the director has Bingley staring, like an idiot, at the fire place when surely he would be caught up in the striking conversation. Yes, you think they would of made him make some kind of gesture a laugh, a giggle or fall alseep. He looked so bored.
(Also, the whole set-up of that room is off from one scene to another, as someone brought up before. Door, desk, fireplace, position of sofa seem off to me from one scene to another.)
I have to watch this scene again.
: : Does this mean I am obsessing???????? Grace
No, just means that we have watched this so, so many times.
:
: ___________________
: I have always been bugged by the blocking (who moves where
: and when in a scene) in the scene after the Gardiners and
: Lizzy leave Pemberley after dinner ("Yes, I did. But that
: was only when I first knew her"). Darcy and Caroline follow
: eachother around the room.
: 1) She starts sitting on the couch,
: he starts over at the wine then moves to the fireplace,
: 2) She gets up and walks over by the wine--where he just was,
: he sits down where she was sitting.
: 3) She walks over to the fireplace--where he just was,
: he walks back over by the wine--where she just was.
: Maybe this was supposed to suggest that they were stalking
: around eachother like cats, but it seems too circular, or
: perhaps more acurately triangular, to me, and like movement
: for movement's sake on the part of the director.
: It's a small point, I know, but it still bugs me.
: Ann
___________________
The only thing is that I wish Mr. Bingley could have finished his sentence it would have given us more insight to his thoughts.
Thanks Donna
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 23:05:55:
: Likewise, in another thread recently people said there was a release of tension in this scene, that they were finally relaxing with each other. I don't think that really happens until Lizzie gets in the coach and gives that wonderful backwards look of reassessment, or after.
: Hilary
___________________
Oh, how I wish they had shown us Darcy's reaction when she
turns around! He must have been thinking "Please look back.
Please look back." Then when she did, there must have
been the most wonderful, sweet, and slightly sad, smile on
his face! (She is after all driving away from him again.)
Ann
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 23:09:03:
: Could be (seems like he likes to romance his costars). I thought I read that he sort of disappeared after the P&P filming, because they were noting that he didn't give any interviews, but maybe this was true because he went to South America instead of Italy. Anyway seems he hooked up with someone else rather quickly.
: Normally (at least in the U.S.) after completing such a major project the actors would go on a publicity tour, or at least do interviews with major newspapers & magazines.
: Maybe Firth isn't necessarily terribly interested in being a major star or he would've done the publicity.
:
:
___________________
As for not being around while P&P2 was being aired in Britain,
he was in Africa (Morocco?) filming "The English Patient",
and quite out of reach of the screaming groupies and tabloids.
Ann
Posted by Anna on October 31, 1996 at 23:13:04:
: I wanted to say that I would have enjoyed hearing the :events discussed by the Aunt and Uncle, as occurred in the :book. I would also have enjoyed seeing the Aunt and Uncle :slowly becoming aware that Darcy was in love with :Lizzy--something we were denied in P&P2.
Although we don't get as much of the Gardiners as in the book, I think we do see some evidence that they realise Darcy has it bad for Lizzy;
Just after the second meet at Pemberly, as Mr Gardiner and Darcy have gone down to the lake and Lizzy and Mrs Gardiner are following, I've always thought Mrs Gardiner's "Can you not" in reply to Lizzy's saying she can't understand the reason for Darcy's changed behaviour meant that Mrs Gardiner could tell that Darcy was bowled over by Lizzy.
Also, whilst Lizzy is playing Voi Che Sapete on the piano at Pemberly and Darcy is looking totally smitten, we see Mr Gardiner taking a long look at Darcy - I'm sure he realised what was going on, I'm only surprised everyone else didn't!
Anna.
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 23:14:08:
: :
: : (Can you tell I have alot of time on my hands!!) Ann
: Ann, thank you this wonderful list. The only trouble is that now I come back to have a second and better read through it, it has disappeared off my server! What has happened???? I thought maybe there would be a copy on the links page, but no luck there either.
: Hilary
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Amy has linked the list to the FAQ page.
Ann
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 23:21:31:
: : :
: : - Myers Briggs scores (for those of you who missed that phase we were going through, we tend to be off-the-chart Ns)
: : : Amy
: :
: : ___________________
: : I wasn't here when you did the Myers-Briggs scores (although I remember the discussion on Austen-L). I took the test a few years ago and came out an ENFP. Does that surprise anyone?
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
: You had just done this when I discovered the BB. I did the test on the link and I was an N too. Think it was INFJ.
: Hilary
___________________
I came out both ISTJ and INTJ.
Ann
Posted by Ann on October 31, 1996 at 23:29:09:
: Thanks for the Hinds link. I like him too. The thing that really interested me when I took a glance at the link was that he is in 'Oskar and Lucinda'. Does anyone else know this book? Its brilliant! By Peter Carey (an Aussie now resident in NY). Won the Booker prize some years back. The film is directed by Gillian Armstrong ('The Piano??)
: Hilary
___________________
"The Piano" was directied by NZ's Jane Campion.
Ann
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