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Posted by Rebecca on October 30, 1996 at 18:48:06:
: ::Would not the Colonel,Lady Cath(and the Collinses) wonder why he was so distraught that he refused to come to dinner. ____________ I think the Colonel does realised that Darcy had been refused because Darcy had spoken of Lizzy before and Fitzwilliam I think suspected that Darcy was in love with her.But I also think that Fitzwilliam knew that Lizzy did't like Darcy because earlier when Lizzy and Fitz are walking Fitz tells Lizzy about the part Darcy had played in the Jane/Bingley affair and Lizzy gets really angry and say's that Darcy had no right to interfere and Fitz is surprised at her answerand asks her does she think that Darcy's interference was officious.Lizzy says yes and Fitzwiliam is wondering why would she say something like that about the man who wants to marry her if she did'nt love him.Am I making any sense.
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Yes, you make sense, but I always got the impression, at least from the book, that he is visiting the parsonage after dinner while the Collins are still visiting with Lady Catherine. Dinner (there was generally no lunch at this time in England) would generally be about 5:00 PM in the country. He ate and then excused himself to take a walk before it got dark! That he was upset when he returned should have been obvious, but I don't think the Colonel really realized it then, but he very well might have on the trip back to London (probably where they were going) when they left Rosings.
Rebecca
Posted by Mich on October 30, 1996 at 18:50:23:
: : : :
: : : : : In reply to Tommye's question; I have lost count of the number of times I have watched.Of course, I have my favorite parts that I watch over and over again. I'm afraid I will wear my tape out.
: : : : ___________________
: : : : I know what you mean. A few nights ago I panicked when my VCR freaked out. I could hear Lizzy's words but couldn't see her. The tracking went caflooey. All is well now, thank goodness.
: : : : My consolation is that if I wear my tape out, there are many ways to purchase another set. I, too, re-watch favorite parts. But then I go back and start from the beginning every week or so.
: : : : Tommye
: : : : P. S. When I really think I need a break, I [almost torture myself by going back and] re-watch P&P 1.
: : : : :Tommye
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : I sometimes watch P&P 1, but I don't really like Darcy in it. He seems too stiff and unemotional. I saw P&P2 first, so I guess I was spoiled.
: :
: : ___________________
: : I've watched all three versions numerous times. In ascending order of viewing frequency :- P&P0 < P&P1 << P&P2
: : Bernie
: :
: : ___________________
: I have not seen any of the older versions of P&P -- only P&P2. Based on your opinions, I guess I should stick to P&P2 and NOT watch P&P0 nor P&P1 (for fear of being disappointed since P&P2 is so incredibly wonderful).
:
: ___________________
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It's true that P&P2 is by far the best but I would recommend you rent the other two. They bring to the screen some of the parts that were in the book but not in P&P2.It reminded me things left out of P&P2 that made me love the story more. If anything I think it will make you appreciate P&P2 more.
Just a thought
Mich
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ramona on October 30, 1996 at 18:51:24:
: : Where did Jane and Lizzy get their manners anyway?
: : Mary H
:
: ___________________
: Perhaps they spent a good deal of time with their aunt and uncle, the Gardiners....maybe when they see some of the Bennet madness infecting them, they hie themselves to London for a sanity check!
: Cheryl
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No doubt! I was so grateful to see the Gardiners come along
into the story. When one has such a crazy family they are not often lucky enough to have sane relatives. What a blessing!!
I think the Gardiners provide the stable core of things, much like the Admiral and Mrs. Croft in Persuasion, or in his own way, Col. Brandon in Sense & Sensibility.
-Ramona (visiting more)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 30, 1996 at 19:22:31:
: I think the Gardiners provide the stable core of things, much like the Admiral and Mrs. Croft in Persuasion, or in his own way, Col. Brandon in Sense & Sensibility.
: -Ramona (visiting more)
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Good point, Ramona Visiting-More. Intruiging how Austen's working class types are so likeable. Even the Colonel, a gentleman, chose to do something useful. Doing something with one's life must have been an character attribute of which JA approved.
There are those who disagree, but I truly believe you can tell a lot about an author by the characteristics she assigns to sympathetic and unsympathetic characters. (Arnessa, do you remember taking my part in this debate long time ago on Austen-L?)
Amy
Posted by Stefanie on October 30, 1996 at 19:25:50:
: Why does she tease us? It's almost like she is saying "Lizzy wants to talk, her aunt does too. You want to know too don't you but I am not going to tell."
: Or was she afraid of disappointing and thought some things better left unsaid?
: Amy
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I think that she was always overly ocnscious of using too much dialogue. It's almost as if she thought that using dialogue was some kind of a sin.
I often wish that she went more in depth at describing some conversations, but then again, if she had written a thousand pages, it still wouldn't have satisfied me.
Posted by Stefanie on October 30, 1996 at 19:33:38:
:Plus when they leave Rosings they are together and it does say the Col. and Darcy are close to each other then just being related. For Darcy to tell the Col about Bingley of course he didn't tell him the exact name and how mush he thought of Lizzie, I think he would tell him about being refused.
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I don't think that Darcy told anyone that Lizzy had refused him. I always figured that he would be too proud, or reserved, to tell anyone, even his close friend/cousin, that he had actually been rejected. I always thought that after Lizzy rejected him, it became one of his greatest secrets and goals in order to win her over.
Stefanie
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Posted by IF on October 30, 1996 at 20:06:17:
::::One entire line of the family has Fitzwilliam as a surname and poor Darcy gets it as a first??!!What was Jane trying to tell us??? ____________
:::Does this imply that the head of the Colonel Fitzwilliam's line was the first to be had(out of wedlock), and Darcy was named after this great personage? _____________ ::Darcy's mother was Lady Anne Fitzwilliam before she got married and in those days it was not unsual to name the first born son after the mother's maiden name.JA's brother was called Branwell, and Branwell was JA's mother's maiden name. ____________
Posted by Tommye on October 30, 1996 at 20:11:20:
... It seems like this shyness leads him to put up a proud outer shell which causes him to cut off his nose to spite his face at times (it seems like we just went through this, right Tommye?)...
... Neither of them is in any way dissimulative, but I would have to say that it is Elizabeth who is the least personality-constrained (does that make sense?) of the two. As Darcy has trouble "being himself" in unfamiliar situations, Elizabeth never has any trouble mastering a situation (unless you count Pemberley, but even then she is more than civil).
: -K
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Gee, Kali. You KNEW I'd be reading this, didn't you. Yes, this does seem familiar.
As to neither Darcy nor Lizzy being "dissimulative," I must confess that, for the first time [honest], I was forced to go to Webster's Dictionary for this one. Lo, there it was: "dissimulate: to hide under a false appearance." I'm impressed.
Do you think Darcy is co-dependent? That comes to mind after your using the phrase, "personality-constrained".
By the way, I agree with all of the above!
(Your mini-essay, that is!)
Regards,
Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by Stefanie on October 30, 1996 at 20:12:55:
: It's true that P&P2 is by far the best but I would recommend you rent the other two. They bring to the screen some of the parts that were in the book but not in P&P2.It reminded me things left out of P&P2 that made me love the story more. If anything I think it will make you appreciate P&P2 more.
: Just a thought
: Mich
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I was just seeing the same exact thing. I have not seen P&P1 yet, but I did see P&P0 and after viewing it, I definitely can appreciate the intricacies of P&P2more.
Stefanie
Posted by genie on October 30, 1996 at 20:15:41:
: : : Hinds playing one of two Irish brothers who share a mistress.
: : : _________________
: : : I think it is called "Paint Your Wagon, Will Ya?"
: ___________________
: : : Really? (Wasn't there a Clint Eastwood film with a similar title??)
: : I missed much of the film, only stuck with it because of Hinds. Dark and interesting, both Hinds and the film. Thanks, Grace
: ___________________
: Sorry. A failed attempt at humor. Paint Your Wagon was a sadly miscast movie from a good stage musical. Imagine Clint Eastwood singing. And Jean Sea(e?)burg, bless her memory. Lee Marvin singing. Now that was inspired. He got away with it much like Rex Harrison did.
: I don't have a clue as to your movie, but in recompense here is the Ciaran Hinds link. Me? I like him. He smolders.
: Amy
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I think the name of that movie is December Bride. I haven't seen it so I am not sure but the description sounds right.
Posted by Tommye on October 30, 1996 at 20:18:37:
. She got what she asked for - he listened to her critique of him and cared enough about her (and himself) to change for the better. This is not always a common occurrence in real life, and such a transformation is not easily achieved.
: : Janet
: ________
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THIS is the kind of response one who confronts dreams of! Further, on this BB, there has been a discussion of confrontations, and frustrations arising from the lack of such. When Lizzy met Wickham again after his marriage, such a confrontation would not have produced any good "fruit" as someone noted. But when Lizzy allowed herself to speak freely to Darcy, in full emotion, much good came of it.
I agree, Janet, such is not commonly the case!
:Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by DDonna on October 30, 1996 at 20:35:36:
:
: : Amy, did you happen to read someones opinion of Mr. Knightly on the A-list I was truely amazed. Some of it is true but for the rest I have my doubts. I never saw him that way.
: : ciao Donna
: ___________________
: I must have missed it. Pray write and tell. Whatever is the connection to this thread? I am most curious for Mr Knightley has long been my favorite Austen hero. I should not wish to have my opinion of him tarnished -- but beg you to relate the whole of the history without regard to how it may color my opinion of him.
: Amy
:
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That he treated Emma like a dog and his p---- ruled his life.
I never thought of him as being so lecherous. Very surprised.
ciao Donna
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Posted by Tommye on October 30, 1996 at 20:41:24:
: : : "I believe Mr. Darcy is mourning the loss of Miss Bennet's
: : : pert opinions and fine eyes". "Quite the contrary, I assure
: : : you."
: :
: __________
: Could Darcy's "Quite the contrary" response have meant that he was so taken with Lizzy that he was not mourning the loss of her, but was rejoicing that he had found her - in keeping with his being "in the middle before he knew that he had begun".
: _________
Personally, I believe your take on this exchange is correct.
And, what a great, even clever, response it was, given the true nature of his feelings!
:Tommye
Posted by Tommye on October 30, 1996 at 20:52:37:
: :
: : No, Donna's right - duck tape is the stuff you use to seal aggressive ducks beaks. Its a miraculous invention which renders them harmless, and holds the world-as-we-know- it together. Invented possibly in the eary 1800s by one F. Darcy.
: : Hilary
:
: ___________________
: Thanks Hilary that really quacked me up. My husband uses it for everything.Wouldn't have been nice if Lizzie had some when Lady C. came for her visit at LBourn.
: ciao Donna
___________________
:"Pardon me for interrupting, Lady Catherine. But could you please come a bit closer? Just a little bit closer?
THERE, YOU OLD TOAD! HOLD STILL WHILE I TAKE CARE OF SOMETHING I SHOULD HAVE DONE MONTHS AGO! .... What did you say? I can't hear you!
You have that really wide tape on your mouth. Pardon me,
I think that's my mother calling...Ta, Ta!"
:Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 30, 1996 at 20:53:00:
: ___________________
: That he treated Emma like a dog and his p---- ruled his life.
: I never thought of him as being so lecherous. Very surprised.
: ciao Donna
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I shall not think of him that way. You can show me evidence and I still shall not think of him that way.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 30, 1996 at 21:00:56:
: :"Pardon me for interrupting, Lady Catherine. But could you please come a bit closer? Just a little bit closer?
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Tommye, I knew I'd like your post even at this point -- whatever else was coming.
We glory in slapping Miss Bingley, taping up Lady C. Now what? Gagging Mrs Bennet on her hanky?
Amy
Posted by Bea on October 30, 1996 at 21:09:20:
:
: ___________________
: I don't think that Darcy told anyone that Lizzy had refused him. I always figured that he would be too proud, or reserved, to tell anyone, even his close friend/cousin, that he had actually been rejected. I always thought that after Lizzy rejected him, it became one of his greatest secrets and goals in order to win her over.
: Stefanie
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I agree, I don't think Darcy b/c of pride could tell anyone that he was rejected. Lady Catherine found out later that "her nephew" might be engaged to Miss Bennet. Who told her that? Mr. Collins, or did perhaps Darcy hint at it? I forget what gave Lady C the thought. Have to go back and re-read that section.
Bea
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 30, 1996 at 21:32:09:
[Re: end of chapter 45]
: Why does she tease us? It's almost like she is saying "Lizzy wants to talk, her aunt does too. You want to know too don't you but I am not going to tell."
: Amy
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But what does she really have to say to her Aunt?
She wouldn't really want to go into all the sticky past history between her and Darcy, and all she could say would be "I think he's interested in me, but I'm not certain he'll ask me (again), and I'm not sure either whether I would accept him if he did ask".
Mrs. Gardiner and she are both so aware of Darcy's interest in her, that any abstract discussion between them on Darcy's merits as a man couldn't be kept from turning into a discussion of Darcy's merits as a possible husband -- for Lizzy.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Bea on October 30, 1996 at 21:54:02:
.....And if that did not hold true, you could take comfort in the fact that your life expectancy at the time would be very short.
: : Grace
:
: ___________________
: Happy thought, indeed!
: Cheryl
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I've been away from this BB for about a week or so and have missed the many posts.... especially about Mr. Collins! I have read that some think he overplayed the character, however, I think he played it perfectly! There was a thread before and we discussed all the Collin-isms. He just cracks me up. Everytime I watch P&P, which is ... okay, daily, I
look for some new thing that he does that is so awkward and goofy! One new thing I noticed about him was when he was on his way to Longbourn to first meet his "fair cousins", he gets up on to the carriage and then the carriage takes off.
And of course, who can forget when he descends from the carriage at Longbourn.
What a gentleman!!!!
Bea
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