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Posted by Janet on October 30, 1996 at 00:14:26:
: : Mr. Darcy totally wins my respect! Even more than the strong female
: : lead, he is not afraid to be who he is, regardless of what anyone thinks
: : of him. He makes no apologies for who and what he is, and I think
: : we can all learn from this character!
:
: ___________________
:
: I agree that Darcy has a strong and well-founded inner pride. He is a very good man, driven by deep-seeded moral beliefs, and he knows who he is. However, it seems that he is also rather shy when "out of his element," so to speak. It seems like this shyness leads him to put up a proud outer shell which causes him to cut off his nose to spite his face at times (it seems like we just went through this, right Tommye?). Unfortunately, it is this pride that serves to shield his true good nature from many who don't really know him. In other words, sometimes he overcompensates for his shyness by putting on an act which does not reflect his true self. Neither of them is in any way dissimulative, but I would have to say that it is Elizabeth who is the least personality-constrained (does that make sense?) of the two. As Darcy has trouble "being himself" in unfamiliar situations, Elizabeth never has any trouble mastering a situation (unless you count Pemberley, but even then she is more than civil).
: -K
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How refreshing it is to see Darcy's veneer stripped away, as it must have been for Lizzy to see "the man himself" stripped of his "formal attire". She got what she asked for - he listened to her critique of him and cared enough about her (and himself) to change for the better. This is not always a common occurrence in real life, and such a transformation is not easily achieved.
: Janet
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Posted by Sidnee Snell on October 30, 1996 at 00:28:35:
:
: :
: : : It is a small scene, but links wonderfully between the end of
: : : Episode 3 and the letter.
: : : Rebecca
: :
: : ___________________
: : You make me very glad that I ordered the tapes today. I should be enjoying that scene by Friday.
: : Ann
: ___________________
: You are too right, I rewatched the tapes today (no hardship there) and you can just imagine when Darcy shakes his head that he is saying "Damn"as he strides towards Rosings. I think the price of the tapes was worth every cent too!! DonnaT
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For anyone in the U.S. who hasn't already purchased the tapes, check PriceClub/Costco -- they had the set for $59.99
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Posted by Sidnee Snell on October 30, 1996 at 00:37:09:
: : ___________________
: : You can buy the tapes from A&E -- the 800 number is on their Web site. It comes with the book and costs about $110 with shipping, but I think it's also available elsewhere for less. Try the Links button at the top of this BB for sources.
:
: ___________________
: What I really don't understand is why you guys are charged ca. $100 for P&P2. In Britain it comes as a double tape all for the price of £19.99 ($30).
: Bernie
:
: ___________________
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For anyone in the U.S. who hasn't already purchased the tapes, check PriceClub/Costco -- they had the set for $59.99. It's the six hour version too.
Posted by Janet on October 30, 1996 at 00:37:29:
:
: :
: : : It is a small scene, but links wonderfully between the end of
: : : Episode 3 and the letter.
: : : Rebecca
: :
: : ___________________
: : You make me very glad that I ordered the tapes today. I should be enjoying that scene by Friday.
: : Ann
: ___________________
: You are too right, I rewatched the tapes today (no hardship there) and you can just imagine when Darcy shakes his head that he is saying "Damn"as he strides towards Rosings. I think the price of the tapes was worth every cent too!! DonnaT
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Darcy appears to realize how right Lizzy is from the moment he leaves the cottage, doesn't he? He wears that same expression of a wounded puppy as when he returns to Pemberley on horseback before his swim, and then when he sheepishly glances up to Lizzy and inquires about her parents for the second time. Lizzy's words must continue to ring in his ear through the very last scene when he admits as much to her.
In regard to Darcy's rejection, do you surmise that Colonel Fitz suspects something is amiss when he returns to Rosings that evening? Would not the Colonel, Lady Cath (and the Collinses) wonder why he was so distraught that he refused to come to dinner with their guests, and even ignored Lady Cath's 'command to 'come here'? Would it not have seemed odd that as soon as the Collins arrived at Rosings without Lizzy, Darcy suddenly dashes off (the clock at Hunsford cottage reads 6:10, perpetually, I know), then he returns a short while later in a huff. I don't recall how all this is explained in the book, but in the video it seems highly suspicious, and definitely worthy of increased suspicions on the part of all who witnessed these events. Perhaps this provides further fodder for Charlotte's suppositions about their engagement later, and Lady Cath's belief in them.
: Janet
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Posted by Sidnee Snell on October 30, 1996 at 00:41:11:
I've seen "Friends of Firth" and "Firth FAQ." Where is there more information about Jennifer Ehle?
Sidnee
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Posted by Janet on October 30, 1996 at 00:48:06:
: : : I know that we haven't actually *heard* from Amy, but there is evidence that she has returned to safely to us from the wilds of Michigan, to wit: the BB has been pared down with old postings removed. Now it only takes 45 seconds for me to reload the BB instead of the 1:30 I have been experiencing.
: : : Amy, did you have a nice Christmas, was Santa good to you? We missed you and were mostly well-behaved in your absence!
: : : Cheryl
: : ___________________
: : May I be the second to welcome you back, Amy!
: : I had many questions for you while you were away, but, alas, I have forgotten them all. (There's just too much else of interest going on on this BB!)
: : :Tommye
:
: ___________________
:
: : Amy, welcome back. Here, we had glorious weather for the weekend. Hope it was true for your part of Michigan.
: Grace
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You did well to return when you did. This evening I called my mother in Michigan who confirmed there is a slew of severe thunderstorms there now. Our nor'easters are often mild compared to the midwest's downpours. Yours was a timely exit indeed.
__________
Posted by Donna on October 30, 1996 at 00:52:10:
: : : Does it bother anyone else how non-confrontive everyone is in P&P? The situation that immediately comes to mind is when Wickham returns to Longbourne with Lydia, then has a private moment with Lizzy. While she does, in fact, let him know that she is aware of what REALLY happened, she is altogether amiable and even passive towards him. Gross. I mean, the man lied and lied to her, her family, everyone in the town, cast grievous aspersions on Darcy's character, then acted out his disgusting penchant for little girls by absconding with Lydia and taking her virginity away (though she appeared eager to have it taken, he was more than aware of the grave, irretrievable nature of the damage he was doing to her).
: : : Even Mr. B was amiable. I mean, couldn't somebody just confront the slimy deceiver?
: : : Of course, there are quite a few more instances in P&P.
: : : Also, in Sense and Sensibility.
: : :
: : : People just made assumptions about others all over the place, and few bothered to check out the facts. Then, when they got the facts, they still didn't confront!
: : : Most frustrating!
: : : Tommye
: :
: : ___________________
: : I had never thought of it that way,very interesting.
: : I always thought they were confrontive, maybe not in a hostile aggresive way but I thought the subtleness more poignant. I almost admired the way Lizzie could insult Wickham without giving the slime ball anything to come back with. I was surprised and Mr.B not showing the least bit of hostility towards the man who had to paid off to marry his daughter.
: : Mich
:
: _________
: Yes, although Mr. B had sworn that Longbourn was one address where Mr. and Mrs. Wickham would never be welcome. Mrs. B must have had her way with that one.
: : : Janet__________
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In the book it was Lizzie and Jane who changed his mind. Chapter 50
ciao Donna
Posted by hat on October 30, 1996 at 01:03:29:
Firth and Hinds were also both in "Circle of Friends",
: though Firth and Hinds didn't share any scenes, and both had
: supporting roles.
: Ann
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Any of you see Dennis Potter's last TV play called 'Cold Lazarus' (following on from 'Karaoke')? It had Hinds playing one of the major roles. He was a scientist and renegade in a futuristic and bleak society. A group of scientists were looking back in time through the memories of a man whose head had been preserved cryogenically, and various other groups were vying for ownership of these experiments and memories. Hinds was good. He had to speak English with a kind of European accent; he had long hair, making him look almost Am. Indian; and he wore interesting clothing, things like loose fitting roughly woven jackets and flowing coats.
Hilary
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Posted by Arnessa on October 30, 1996 at 01:09:49:
Glad to hear you had a good time. Since you've been gone we have not heard two words of sense spoken together... (but that's the fun of this board, isn't it?) You were very much missed, my dear.
-Arnessa.
P.S. I also saw that you "came clean" to Austen-L. I suppose it is the right thing to do, but I hope the board doesn't change too much. I like the light-heartedness here.
"Do you know, I can't remember a happier time than those short months I spent at Netherfield." -Charles Bingley
Posted by janet on October 30, 1996 at 01:16:34:
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: I know that, if it were me, I would not have
: : allowed him to continue in the room after some of the things
: : he said and would just have told him to get out!
: : Ann
: ___________________
: "Get out! GET OUT! You! WHY, I AUGHTA!..."
: :Tommye
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What a scream - ROTFLOL with tears in my eyes, truly I am! Very funny indeed. Yet if it had gone that way we would have missed Lizzy's perfectly delivered admonishments which hit their target right-on. Darcy must have felt their sting immediately, and the ensuing hearthrob was sufficient to last forever.
: Janet
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Posted by Arnessa on October 30, 1996 at 01:23:12:
: (Can you tell I have a lot of time on my hands!!)
: Ann
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I am very impressed by your scholarship and think it a worthy use of your time.
One question: Is the Netherfield ball gown the same as the gown Lizzy wears to dine at Pemberley? I can't remember exactly now. But somehow they seemed the same.
-Arnessa.
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Posted by hat on October 30, 1996 at 01:29:26:
: : : : Or maybe Darcy knew Lizzy was the one from the start, but the right side of his brain (on a link similar to Caroline's?) was trying to rationalize/deny/dissuade him?
: : : pert opinions and fine eyes". "Quite the contrary, I assure
: : : you." He knew he was in love (never been so bewitched), but
: : : was repulsed at the thought of being attracted to one whose
: : : connections were so decidedly below his own. Thus he was
: : : glad to have some distance between himself and Lizzy.
: : : Ann
: :
: : ___________________
: : In one of those post-proposal conversations that were so lamentably left out of the film, Lizzie asks Darcy when he realized it, and he replies that he "was in the middle before [he] knew that [he] had begun."
: : Joan, too
:
: __________
: Could Darcy's "Quite the contrary" response have meant that he was so taken with Lizzy that he was not mourning the loss of her, but was rejoicing that he had found her - in keeping with his being "in the middle before he knew that he had begun".
: _________
___________________
I agree with Joan and Ann here. I think he was not yet comfortable enough with Lizzie and her realations to be rejoicing in finding her. But he's definitly in love from early on. And I don't think that after Rosings he is ever trying to get forget her, get her out of his system. This includes during the fencing, and during the Lambton/Lydia saga. As Mrs Gardiner says, obstinancy may be his greatest fault, rather than pride, and sometimes that manifests as constancy I guess.
Hilary
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Posted by Cheryl on October 30, 1996 at 01:33:52:
: : : I have tried in vain,It will not do...
: : : I can visualize lying in bed on my wedding night when Mr.Collins, my husband walks in, a big smile across his face and
: : : NO NO NO NO I cannot go any furthur! since you could not be married without consumating the marriage I could not marry him. ooooo ick!!!!
: : : Mich
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: : : Mich, the lighting in those times would have been very poor.......is that any consolation to you?
: : Vision problems can prove a blessing at times. Grace
: _________
: But the words he speaks, and the topics of (non)conversation/condescention, he being "quite enraptured" and all. Would earplugs be sufficient?
: : : Janet
___________________
Ok, I've got it! A blindfold, ear plugs, a thick flannel nightgown left ON so I wouldn't have to touch him, lots of scented candles to remove the Mr. Collins smell (eeewww!!!), NO kissing, some good port (to dull any remaining senses not muted enough by the above) and a very, very imaginitive fantasy life and I just *may* be able to...NO! NO! I'm with Mich, I just can't...no amount of poultry is worth this!
Cheryl
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Posted by Ann2 on October 30, 1996 at 01:57:42:
: : I really enjoy Austen-L, I learn a great deal from every digest,
That sounds so interesting. Do you have to qualify to get to see it? I am going to investigate more possibilities when I get my connection at home.
Ann2
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: Thank you for the background, and thank you for creating this BB, Amy. It really is fun to follow along the threadlines, even if they are "mostly all silly" (was that your analysis?). 'Everyone seems so amiable, and I am delighted to meet any friend of Elizabeth's. I am quite enraptured'. Sorry, even Mr. Collins is growing on me...it's getting bad...so silly.
: : : Janet
: ... Maybe it's due to the Mac factor. (oops so glad I grasped that...wonder how many punts I miss)
: _________
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I too am happy to hear about the birth of the board and even more grateful for the opportunity to take part.
Ann2(freshman)
Posted by Ann2 on October 30, 1996 at 02:13:03:
: : : Darcy-like men certainly do exist.... but alas, even they occasionally display bursts of Hurst.
: : Ever a realist, Grace
:
: ___________________
: And I suppose, to be fair, that the same could be said about those of the female persuasion - Lizzies do exist, but they, too, are occasionally subject to bursts of Bingley-Hurst.
: Joan, too
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Ah, Have we got the essence of Know-how in The Art of Making your Marriage Work here?
Cherish and make the most of the Darcy-moments and learn to overlook the"Bursts of Hurst"!(Even the expression might help me to laugh at those little weaknesses that expose a strong understanding to ridicule. Great fun, Grace.)
And sensible Joan, too is right of course, I have faults enough...
Ann2
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Posted by Ann2 on October 30, 1996 at 02:24:38:
: : Has anyone seen the old Masterpiece Theater series "The Duchess of Duke Street"? It is supposedly based on an actual person.(My PBS station is re-showing it now.)
: : Just a side note -- the woman who played Louisa (Gemma Jones) also played the mother in Sense and Sensibility.
: : Anne
:
: ___________________
: Oh yes! Bravo showed it a year or so ago. It was quite good,
: and I'm hoping they'll show it again.
: Ann
I have seen this play among the offers from BBC and been contemplating the possibility of maybe getting it as a Christmas present. It has one further claim on my interest - Gemma Jones is the mother of Emma Thompson, whom I admire and who maybe owes some of her talent to her mother
Ann2!?__________________
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Posted by Joan, too on October 30, 1996 at 02:33:28:
: Could Darcy's "Quite the contrary" response have meant that he was so taken with Lizzy that he was not mourning the loss of her, but was rejoicing that he had found her - in keeping with his being "in the middle before he knew that he had begun".
___________________
No, definitely not rejoicing, rather he has recognized that he is in danger and is glad that the temptation is being removed. At that point in the book (in Chapter 12) when It is determined that Jane is well enough to return home from Netherfield, JA tells us:
To Mr Darcy it was welcome intelligence - Elizabeth had been at Netherfield long enough. She attracted him more than he liked - and Miss Bingley was uncivil to her, and more teasing than usual to himself. He wisely resolved to be particularly careful that no sign of admiration should now escape him, nothing that could elevate her with the hope of influencing his felicity; sensiible that if such an idea had been suggested, his behaviour during the last day must have material weight in confirming, or crushing it. Steady to his word, he scarcely spoke ten words to her through the whole of Saturday, and though they were at one time left by themselves for half an hour, he adhered most conscientiously to his book, and would not even look at her.
Posted by Sylvia on October 30, 1996 at 02:36:45:
: I really enjoy Austen-L, I learn a great deal from every digest,
: ___________________
: Me too. That, and this thread, is why I finally posted something about the board on the Austen list today. I am sure when they see what it is they will not mind at all that I headed this nonsense off at their path.
: Now, would they ever believe we are more moderate, less bawdy and less gushing than the Firthlisters? Yeah, probably. We are all cousins.
: Amy
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Hi Amy,
I'm just a lurker most of the time here but I love PP2. My most favorite mini-series. I love all the comments and I am at my computer everyday religiously. I learned a lot from the postings and it helped me understand the book by all your explanations. I would love to lurk at Austen L too if you can post their address here because after I read all the good comments here I want some more. Please....
Thank you very much.
Sylvia
Sylvia
Posted by Joan, too on October 30, 1996 at 02:42:45:
: Janet
: P.S. Disconnected again, and definitely after less than a minute. Maybe it's due to the Mac factor.
: _________
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No - it's very unlikely to be the Mac's (or any machine's) fault. More likely noisy phone lines - or your ISP's fault. I almost never get disconnected even when "inactive" (as far as the ISP's host is concerned" for longer than 15 minutes - except that yesterday and today they have dropped carrier on me repeatedly - so I have opened a "trouble ticket" with them on that score. From time to time, they will have a modem in their modem bank go bad, and either not connect at all or otherwise perform poorly.
Joan, too
Posted by Joan, too on October 30, 1996 at 02:52:26:
: One question: Is the Netherfield ball gown the same as the gown Lizzy wears to dine at Pemberley? I can't remember exactly now. But somehow they seemed the same.
: -Arnessa.
___________________
No, the Netherfieil Ball gown had a round neckline and short sleeves to be worn with long gloves, while the Pemberley one has a square neckline and elbow-length sleeves.
Joan, too
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