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Posted by Anne on October 29, 1996 at 14:49:42:
:
: : _I managed to get the tapes for $75.00 from Colombia
: House -
___________________
I too got my tapes from Columbia House but managed to get them for $60 on one of their 'specials'. I winced at paying that but they have been worth the investment. If things keep going the way they have, I may have to buy another set as these will be worn through.
Anne
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 29, 1996 at 14:55:30:
: : : Get a life guys : :
: I wrote that not to be mean, but fun-spirited. I know I have no life, which is why I watch P&P over and over again.
: Sorry Alicia, that you were the one who was accused of saying this. I did only mean in it jest. I was trying to make a point that it does not matter how many times one watches the video, but how much one likes it.
: Laura M
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Dearest Laura, I believe we all realized the spirit in which you made the comment (thus my smiley in my response). We all realize that to the non-believer we seem to have no lives when we actually have the happiest of lives centered around this obsession (with one or two other obsessions that we have mentioned). A life filled with joy, whatever the origin of that joy, must be pleasant indeed.
Anne
Follow Ups:
Posted by IF on October 29, 1996 at 14:56:22:
:One can be especially prone to obsessive thoughts when one's passions have not been requited. ________________
When Darcy is fencing he is so aggresive it is as if he is trying to drive away his tormented feelings.Every time he wins a match the memory of Lizzy is more distant and this gives him comfort.But after he has won we see him leaning against a wall he is clearly thinking of something else and that being Lizzy.No matter what he does he just can't get her out of his mind bit he knows he must so that is what he is trying to conquer. _________________
Posted by Paula on October 29, 1996 at 15:01:37:
: The scene that is shown is where Mr. B tells Mary
: that she has delighted them quite enough (with her playing). I don't feel that this is a want of propriety.
___________________
I think that technically speaking it was impolite of Mr. B. to stop Mary's performance. Interrupting is almost always impolite, even if, as in this case, Mr. B. did it very gently and was simply trying to spare his guests the pain of listening (and it also looked like Mary would have played on all night if someone didn't stop her).
Despite the awful singing, Mr. B. should have allowed Mary to finish. The truly polite simply ignore the fact that something is poorly executed -- for example, if you're invited to someone's home for dinner and you think they're a terrible cook, you can't really say that to them. You eat the food (or listen to the music) whether you like it or not, because you're a guest.
Posted by Linda on October 29, 1996 at 15:31:07:
Mr. Darcy totally wins my respect! Even more than the strong female
lead, he is not afraid to be who he is, regardless of what anyone thinks
of him. He makes no apologies for who and what he is, and I think
we can all learn from this character!
Link:
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on October 29, 1996 at 16:09:39:
: : She's right, of course. How would the list have liked the 118 messages from yesterday had we believed they really wanted all this nonsense.
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: Oh, I agree with you, there would have been much outrage and derision. I really enjoy Austen-L, I learn a great deal from every digest, but I would never dream of posting there. There is, I suppose, a little intimidation factor going on, with all the academics expounding and delving into both minutia and broader contributing issues of Jane Austens times. As I say, I love it, but I am "just a fan" and don't feel qualified to do anything but lurk. Now, obsession is something I know about! I lurked here for a couple of weeks and then couldn't refrain any longer and have managed to get over my shyness quite well (some would say *too* well!)
: But the Austen-L people can be compulsive too; note the lengthly discussions still going on over Frank Churchill's character!
: Cheryl
___________________
I think Amy's idea was a good one. It IS a free internet, after all. Though I tend to be puristic (did I just invent a word?) and stuffy about Austen at times, I do appreciate the films and the modern applications of her themes and stories. I tend to be a little obsessive, as well, which is probably the reason why I fit in more comfortably here than on the L. I totally understand Cheryl's point - while it seems that the L regulars are very nice people, it also seems that they are more "academically" oriented, while we seem to have a more vernacular, pop-culture kind of approach to Austen. While many of us can fit into both venues, it seems best not to force our overriding love of P&P and P&P2 onto a bunch of people who are interested more in the literary value of all of Austen's works.
Lovin' this BB,
K
Follow Ups:
Posted by Alicia on October 29, 1996 at 16:16:15:
: Dear Laura (I hope]: In no way did I mean for my comment to infer meanness on your part, nor did I realize I had misread the posting. I actually thought it was quite funny [perhaps I should have just said LOL -- see discussion of LOL below] and just wanted to play along.
: Regards...
: Tommye
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Laura and Tommye-
Sorry for all the misunderstanding that was taken. As we all LOVE P&P and are addicted to the series, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading and participating in the discussions on this BB. I am VERY THANKFUL that I found other devoted fans like you who I can share my P&P thoughts with.
-Alicia
Posted by Alicia on October 29, 1996 at 16:24:06:
: I have been reading this BB for about two weeks now and I finally felt a need to contribute. Probably the oldtimers are aware but maybe not everyone that Colin and Jennifer we carrying on a bona fide love affair while they were making the film and according to London news reports this made the loving looks we all enjoy so much very real. Colin reports he is not ready to settle down yet and at that time Jennifer was not commenting. Shelagh
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Yes, that's right (or at least that's what the reports say) -- Colin and (lucky) Jennifer were in a relationship together while they were filming.
Here is a link to an article about it.
http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/articles/romance_article.html
Link:
Posted by Kali on October 29, 1996 at 16:32:03:
: Mr. Darcy totally wins my respect! Even more than the strong female
: lead, he is not afraid to be who he is, regardless of what anyone thinks
: of him. He makes no apologies for who and what he is, and I think
: we can all learn from this character!
___________________
I agree that Darcy has a strong and well-founded inner pride. He is a very good man, driven by deep-seeded moral beliefs, and he knows who he is. However, it seems that he is also rather shy when "out of his element," so to speak. It seems like this shyness leads him to put up a proud outer shell which causes him to cut off his nose to spite his face at times (it seems like we just went through this, right Tommye?). Unfortunately, it is this pride that serves to shield his true good nature from many who don't really know him. In other words, sometimes he overcompensates for his shyness by putting on an act which does not reflect his true self. Neither of them is in any way dissimulative, but I would have to say that it is Elizabeth who is the least personality-constrained (does that make sense?) of the two. As Darcy has trouble "being himself" in unfamiliar situations, Elizabeth never has any trouble mastering a situation (unless you count Pemberley, but even then she is more than civil).
-K
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on October 29, 1996 at 16:35:35:
: :Lucky, lucky Jennifer! (Sigh...);) Sarah
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Not necessarily...while Mr. Darcy is steadfastness itself, Mr. Firth is...shall we say...not.
Cheryl
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Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 17:07:04:
I really enjoy Austen-L, I learn a great deal from every digest,
___________________
Me too. That, and this thread, is why I finally posted something about the board on the Austen list today. I am sure when they see what it is they will not mind at all that I headed this nonsense off at their path.
Now, would they ever believe we are more moderate, less bawdy and less gushing than the Firthlisters? Yeah, probably. We are all cousins.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Sarah on October 29, 1996 at 17:27:42:
:
: : :Lucky, lucky Jennifer! (Sigh...);) Sarah
:
: ___________________
: Not necessarily...while Mr. Darcy is steadfastness itself, Mr. Firth is...shall we say...not.
: Cheryl
___________________
You are very correct...I musn't go confusing the two, it is just a movie after all. That brought to mind the whole character dialogue between Lizzy and Charlotte Lucas. Lizzy made a good point that even though a person might seem very nice on the outside, it is good to get an understanding of their character before making any rash judgements. Good insight from Jane Austen!! Sarah
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on October 29, 1996 at 17:35:25:
: I really enjoy Austen-L, I learn a great deal from every digest,
: ___________________
: Me too. That, and this thread, is why I finally posted something about the board on the Austen list today. I am sure when they see what it is they will not mind at all that I headed this nonsense off at their path.
: Amy
___________________
Very courageous of you, Amy. Can't wait to see the fallout!
Cheryl
Loved the (too true) image ;-)
Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 29, 1996 at 17:41:06:
:
: : I do not think he would involve himself with a married lady at all he seem to be mor moral thar most men of his class were and his horror over Wickham seem real (otherwhise he would have been a real hypcrite he has many faults but hardly that. Even if I think he maybe had some experience before Lizzy it would hardly be with a married lady or a open prostitute. Maybe with a widow or actress of some kind. At least he would never willingly compromise hurt or abandon a lady.or leaving one one the street.
: : a married lady never!!!!!
: : Anna-Karin
:
: ___________________
:
: Sorry I haven't answered before, but I only have access to the Net at work and in the afternoons generally. I guess we have to disagree. My reading of the Regency period, and some other novels of then, is that it was fairly common for married woman, who were not married for love or whose husband had decided to go his own way, to take lovers, preferably young unmarried men of her own class. The advantage of these women for someone like Darcy is that it is fairly discreet, there is no expectation that it will be more than a brief affair, and any children will be the husband's,and they are likely (not necessarily) to be disease free. Far preferable to prostitutes and serving girls, although less spectacular than actresses. Darcy does have horror of Wickham and is more moral, but he disapproves of Wickham's continual interest in vice instead of learning a respectable profession and his p
enchant for going after innocent young women of good family. I don't think a gentleman of Darcy's social position in that time disapproved of a moderate amount of sex outside of marriage, indeed a male would probably be considered strange if he did not.
: Rebecca
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I think you have right that we have to agree on disagreing ;). However I think you have right in that some married ladies of the aristocracy of that time had young men as
lovers. But i am not so sure mr Darcy
would be one of those men.But the only way to find out is to ask him and I do not think we are able to do that ;);) (I do not think he
would answer us either). As for wickham I think he run after both innocent girls and not so innocent girls.
As for how much
sex outside marriage Darcy would have approved or not
approved off is hard to say.
If he approved (or tolerated) of any I think it would be more likely with unmarried ladies.I think he would think adultery to be more sinful.
Anna-Karin
Posted by Rebecca on October 29, 1996 at 17:56:15:
: Mrs. B obviously takes her role as husband-finder for her daughters quite seriously. Her life practically revolves around the subject. Since she's so wiggy about making sure her duaghters are all safely married off (so as to avoid the burden of spinsterhood), how do you guys think she must have felt about bearing an heir (back when she was still in the business of being fertile)? Perhaps it was HER idea to make at least five tries of it (poor Mr. Bennet!)?
___________________
I'm sure she felt terrible about not having a son, especially since I believe at that time, the sex of the child was the woman's fault. Obviously, most of her contemporaries would have thought Mrs. Bennet was not trying hard enough!!! As for making five tries, I'm sure that was really no problem; Mr Bennet had married her for sexual attractiveness anyway. That he didn't respect her had no effect on that. And we do know from both P&P2 and the book that they had tried for some time after Lydia was born.
Rebecca
Posted by Anna-karin schander on October 29, 1996 at 18:05:23:
: : : : : : : But It would be a intresting
: : : : : : : plot to see Caroline chasing a Darcy stricken by grief over
: : : : : : : Lizzys early death.Maybe she had died in childbed after giving birth to too many children in a few years ( a common fate a that time).
: : : : : : : Darcy would maybe feel responsible for Lizzys death.
: : : : : : : maybe caroline would try to snare him then.
: : : : : : : Anna-karin
: : : : : :
: : : : : : ___________________
: : : : : : Anna-Karin,
: : : : : : Please refrain from killing Lizzy off!!
: : : : : : It is simply too horrible to think of.
: : : : : : Ann
: : : : :
: : : : : ___________________
: : : : : Yes, I wouldn't want her to die, but see could leave for about a year or two due to having to many childern.
: : : : : Knowing if she would stay that it would be a risk to her life. She wouldn't want him to feel responsible for her life and the temptation for both would be to devasting to live with. It is a desperate situation. This is the only problem that I could see being a wife and being happily married in the 1800's. I couldn't image giving birth so many time.There was always very large families. Having 10 to 12 childern was
: : : : : common. It had to be a great fear in JA mind,maybe thats why she wasn't totally unhappy not being married.She lost many sister-in-laws this way.
: : : : : Donna
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : I do notreally want to kill Lizzy of either.
: : : : Donna You do not mean that Lizzy shouldleave Darcy for good or? Nothwithstanding it would break their hearts it would be a great social scandal if they really separated. someting they
: : : : did not want to cause. But the problems of to
: : : : many children in to little time could be real to them. Remember Mrs bennet gave birth to 5 in 7 years but then suddenly stopped even if it is clear from the book that she and mr Bennet tried to have a son for many ears after Lydia was born.
: : : : So Lizzy can be expected to give birth to many children in quite a few years.It could be a problem for her and Darcy.But I do not think that separating would be considered really
: : : : because of 1. the fact that they loved each other deeply. 2 .the social scandal.
: : : : Maybe a solution could be separate bedrooms
: : : : (to lessen the temptation not that I think it would do) or that Darcy maybe
: : : : sometimes spend some time alone in the house in
: : : : London to give Lizzy some rest.
: : : : In some social high standing families of that time once the heir and maybe one son more was born the parents lived rather separated but
: : : : mostly under the same roof.
: : : : The men then often keept mistreses and went to prostitutes
: : : : I thing I hope Darcy would not even consider.
: : : : Anna-karin
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : Folks! This thread is starting to sound like one of Emma Tennant's sequels!
: : : Bernie
: : :
: : : ___________________
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Fill us in Bernie, just a little and whats the title.
: : Thanks Donna
:
: ___________________
:
: It would be a temporary condition ,because Lizzie would not be able to have childern again for at least two years
: With religious beliefs taking the forefront of marriages at this time,and birth control would not be available, what other opitions do the had ,but to agree on some kind of temporary arangement. Social scandal would not be an issue because it would be considered a matter of life and death.
: I agree being in the same house would not due.
:
___________________
We have to hope that they could work something out that was not to painful for them or that they did not have to do it at all ;););)
Anna-Karin
PS. the Emma Tennant sequel Pemberly has been translated to swedish I gave it a quick read.
It is terrible!!!!!!!! So many things are wrong
for example Lydia having several children when Lizzy has been married one year. and now some
poor swedes will by the boo for a sum of 260 swedish kronor around 40 US dollars.Luckily I did not have to by the book.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Rebecca on October 29, 1996 at 18:09:24:
: Indeed it was! Isn't that actually his regular shirt with the collar unbuttoned? And also looks the same as the one he wears when he swims.
: Joan, too
___________________
Yes, to Elizabeth's dress -- the beige one is the one she wears the most. As to Darcy's shirt, that is the type he always wears apparently. You are right Joan, too, that it is the same in the swim and also when he has finished his letter at Rosings and is splashing his face with water. I guess that is all he had for "casual" wear.
Rebecca
Follow Ups:
Posted by Rebecca on October 29, 1996 at 18:28:06:
At the risk of infuriating people who only have the A&E broadcast
version, I would like to bring up the _great_ scene at the beginning
of Episode 4 which is on the video -- Darcy leaving Hunsford
Parsonage right after he has been rejected, walking to Rosings,
entering the house and meeting Colonel Fitzwilliam at the base
of the stairs (this latter part is where the broadcast came in).
This is one of my favorite scenes, with the voiceovers from the
proposal going on. As on this BB we have delighted in the wonderful
facial gestures of Firth and Ehle, his face particularly as he
walks out of the Parsonage is very telling--that is one very
unhappy man! Also, in his walk back he bobs his head as if to
say "Damn it"!, while we hear "that you are the last man I could
ever marry." Going up the stairs into the house, he remembers her
words about Wickham and says "At least in that I may defend myself."
So we know he is going to do something. The face as he remembers
her chastising him for his not behaving in a "gentleman-like manner."
It is a small scene, but links wonderfully between the end of
Episode 3 and the letter.
Rebecca
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 29, 1996 at 18:32:18:
: : : : : : : : But It would be a intresting
: : : : : : : : plot to see Caroline chasing a Darcy stricken by grief over
: : : : : : : : Lizzys early death.Maybe she had died in childbed after giving birth to too many children in a few years ( a common fate a that time).
: : : : : : : : Darcy would maybe feel responsible for Lizzys death.
: : : : : : : : maybe caroline would try to snare him then.
: : : : : : : : Anna-karin
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : ___________________
: : : : : : : Anna-Karin,
: : : : : : : Please refrain from killing Lizzy off!!
: : : : : : : It is simply too horrible to think of.
: : : : : : : Ann
: : : : : :
: : : : : : ___________________
: : : : : : Yes, I wouldn't want her to die, but see could leave for about a year or two due to having to many childern.
: : : : : : Knowing if she would stay that it would be a risk to her life. She wouldn't want him to feel responsible for her life and the temptation for both would be to devasting to live with. It is a desperate situation. This is the only problem that I could see being a wife and being happily married in the 1800's. I couldn't image giving birth so many time.There was always very large families. Having 10 to 12 childern was
: : : : : : common. It had to be a great fear in JA mind,maybe thats why she wasn't totally unhappy not being married.She lost many sister-in-laws this way.
: : : : : : Donna
: : : : :
: : : : : ___________________
: : : : : I do notreally want to kill Lizzy of either.
: : : : : Donna You do not mean that Lizzy shouldleave Darcy for good or? Nothwithstanding it would break their hearts it would be a great social scandal if they really separated. someting they
: : : : : did not want to cause. But the problems of to
: : : : : many children in to little time could be real to them. Remember Mrs bennet gave birth to 5 in 7 years but then suddenly stopped even if it is clear from the book that she and mr Bennet tried to have a son for many ears after Lydia was born.
: : : : : So Lizzy can be expected to give birth to many children in quite a few years.It could be a problem for her and Darcy.But I do not think that separating would be considered really
: : : : : because of 1. the fact that they loved each other deeply. 2 .the social scandal.
: : : : : Maybe a solution could be separate bedrooms
: : : : : (to lessen the temptation not that I think it would do) or that Darcy maybe
: : : : : sometimes spend some time alone in the house in
: : : : : London to give Lizzy some rest.
: : : : : In some social high standing families of that time once the heir and maybe one son more was born the parents lived rather separated but
: : : : : mostly under the same roof.
: : : : : The men then often keept mistreses and went to prostitutes
: : : : : I thing I hope Darcy would not even consider.
: : : : : Anna-karin
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : Folks! This thread is starting to sound like one of Emma Tennant's sequels!
: : : : Bernie
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : Fill us in Bernie, just a little and whats the title.
: : : Thanks Donna
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : It would be a temporary condition ,because Lizzie would not be able to have childern again for at least two years
: : With religious beliefs taking the forefront of marriages at this time,and birth control would not be available, what other opitions do the had ,but to agree on some kind of temporary arangement. Social scandal would not be an issue because it would be considered a matter of life and death.
: : I agree being in the same house would not due.
: :
:
: ___________________
: We have to hope that they could work something out that was not to painful for them or that they did not have to do it at all ;););)
: Anna-Karin
: PS. the Emma Tennant sequel Pemberly has been translated to swedish I gave it a quick read.
: It is terrible!!!!!!!! So many things are wrong
: for example Lydia having several children when Lizzy has been married one year. and now some
: poor swedes will by the boo for a sum of 260 swedish kronor around 40 US dollars.Luckily I did not have to by the book.
___________________
Tennant's books are nowhere to be found in this neck 0f the woods.
Thanks Donna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on October 29, 1996 at 20:36:59:
:
: ___________________
:
I know that, if it were me, I would not have
: allowed him to continue in the room after some of the things
: he said and would just have told him to get out!
: Ann
___________________
"Get out! GET OUT! You! WHY, I AUGHTA!..."
:Tommye
Follow Ups:
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