Return to Archives home
[ Index by Subject ] [ Index by Date ] [ New P&P2 BB ] [ FAQ ] [ Links ]
Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 10:54:08:
I wish you had announced the creation of this BB on Austen-L, but I understand the reasoning behind it.
___________________
I still feel a little sneaky about going ahead with it. Not announcing it there was one way of assuaging the guilt.
Somehow I knew that, much as the Austen-L folks like the lighter side of Austen, non-addicts could not understand how nitpicky the discussions could get if left unbridled.
A public comment from Arnessa near the end of the debate sealed my decision to put up the board. She said something like, "yes it is nice that the scholars and ordinary readers have come together because of this question but still, I don't think some of you see how deep this need is." Or something like that. I am sure Arnessa said it better.
She's right, of course. How would the list have liked the 118 messages from yesterday had we believed they really wanted all this nonsense.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Grace on October 29, 1996 at 10:59:30:
:
: : ___________________
: : Great minds must truly think alike! After viewing and reviewing P&P, I got to thinking how wonderful Cf would be in the Scarlet Pimpernel. I gort the book, read it about ten times, rented the original movie with Leslie Howard & Merle Oberon (surprisingly good but not always faithful to the book) and started to write a screenplay more in keeping with the suspense and issues in the book. Just a bit more of my CF and indirectly P&P obsession. I, too, read the Emma Tennant books and found them in accurate and generally dreadful. Julia Barret was somewhat less dreadful. I thought "if they can get this rubbish published, why can't I write something?" Not a sequel, mind you, just some ruminations.. mostly about what happens to Darcy in those months between Rosings and Pemberley. I have about fifteen pages written, which wasn't so difficult, given my obsession with the book and telecast. (I began to speak "Austenese" many months ago.)
: : One related book, which I found helpful in explaining some social questions of the time, is "What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew" by Pool. It is not a stuffy, scholarly work, but well-researched and easy to read. Great reference for 19th century Brit-Lit.
: : One thing I learned from this book was the reason for the high rank Darcy enjoyed. Lady Catherine says somewhere in P&P novel that he was "from an ancient, though untitled, family.." His first name Fitzwilliam (from the French fils or son) as well as his last (d'Arcy) are from the French. Families that could trace their ancestry back to the Normans, even without titles, were considered superior, it seems, to other nobility, and perhaps, Anglo Saxons. In fact, in JA many of her heroes have names that are basically French, while the villians usually do not. (My own observation)
: : Anyway, I have digressed here a great deal. Perhaps this is not the correct place to post a message, but I had such a hard time figuring out what to do, that I thought I should say everything in one place rather than risk screwing up somewhere. (I am not very technically endowed.)
: : BTW, I love reading everyone's comments, many of which reflect my own questions, thoughts, and feelings.
: : Hasta luego. genie
:
: ___________________
: Incidentally, Fitzwilliam means bastard son of William. It was not uncommon in those days for males of royal or noble standing to have extra marital dalliances ( potential Grace and Anna-Karin fodder here, I think!). The progeny of these unions were often not ostracised, and if they were the only male scion, they could inherit titles and estates (I think I'm right in saying that -- help HC, please). In order to distinguish them from the true lineage "Fitz" was added to their name.
: Bernie
:
: ___________________
___________________
: Bernie, one entire line of the family has Fitzwilliam as a surname and poor Darcy gets it as a first??!! What was Jane trying to tell us???
I was already worried enough about the gene pool knowing that traits of Lady Catherine, Mrs. Bennet and Mr. Collins were floating about. What am I to think now?? Grace
Follow Ups:
Posted by Grace on October 29, 1996 at 11:04:59:
: : I know that we haven't actually *heard* from Amy, but there is evidence that she has returned to safely to us from the wilds of Michigan, to wit: the BB has been pared down with old postings removed. Now it only takes 45 seconds for me to reload the BB instead of the 1:30 I have been experiencing.
: : Amy, did you have a nice Christmas, was Santa good to you? We missed you and were mostly well-behaved in your absence!
: : Cheryl
: ___________________
: May I be the second to welcome you back, Amy!
: I had many questions for you while you were away, but, alas, I have forgotten them all. (There's just too much else of interest going on on this BB!)
: :Tommye
___________________
: Amy, welcome back. Here, we had glorious weather for the weekend. Hope it was true for your part of Michigan.
Grace
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 29, 1996 at 13:08:55:
: : Our Blockbuster just recently got the tape; it is only available for one night rental. I did take it and raced through to find the missing scenes I had heard so much about, but had no time to watch the entirety. My idea of luxury will be when I can sit down with a glass of wine, Szechuan take-out, a quiet house... and watch from beginning to end. No interruptions.
: It'll never happen. Grace
___________________
How in the world do they expect people to be able to watch a six-hour long show in one night!!
(Not that we all haven't done that many times)
Ann
Posted by Marsha on October 29, 1996 at 13:13:03:
: : : When Lizzy is reading Darcy's letter and he mentions the total
: : : want of propriety by her family - occassionally even by your
: : : father - the scene that is shown is where Mr. B tells Mary
: : : that she has delighted them quite enough (with her playing). I
: : : don't feel that this is a want of propriety. I feel that this is
: : : a very sensitive way of getting Mary to stop without actually
: : : telling her that she's not very good and embarrassing them.
: : : I feel the want of propriety on Mr. B's part is in allowing his
: : : daughters and wife to behave the way they do.
: : : Just a thought.
: : : Anne
: :
: : _________
: : But Mr. B's remark was snide, ungracious and obvious, and he did not make an effort to be polite which was apparently reflected back in his daughters' behaviour.__________
:
: ___________________
: I agree. Even Lizzie, who wished her father to intervene -- to prevent Mary making a total laughing stock of herself -- was shocked and distressed at his manner. Just look at her start and turn away with mortification.
: Bernie
:
: ___________________
___________________
Yes, that's true, but the poor man must have some entertainment, and even though it WAS ungracious, I still thought Mary got what she deserved, so I don't think it was that bad.
Marsha
Follow Ups:
Posted by Patricia Siegmund on October 29, 1996 at 13:15:22:
Have I died - and gone to heaven? I rented this film about three weeks ago....watch it over and over - had to have it - spent $88.00 from Colombia house to get it and have seen it in excess of 15 times.
I had NO idea that anyone else felt the same way as I do. I looked Colin Furth up on the net a week ago and KAPOW as Batman's Robin would say - here you all are!!!!! Please write to me at my E-mail address if
possible - I would love to discuss this movie with anyone who has the crush on Darcy that I have. I can't remember when was the last time
I felt this way about a film and its characters. Bravo!!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on October 29, 1996 at 13:22:54:
: :
:
: ___________________
:
: Tommye-
: I DIDN'T MAKE THE COMMENT YOU ARE REFERRING TO!!
: -Alicia
___________________
Ever so sorry, Alicia. I get muddled figuring out postings sometimes. Please forgive.
Sigh...Tommye
Posted by Tommye on October 29, 1996 at 13:28:10:
: : : Get a life guys : :
: I wrote that not to be mean, but fun-spirited. I know I have no life, which is why I watch P&P over and over again.
: Sorry Alicia, that you were the one who was accused of saying this. I did only mean in it jest. I was trying to make a point that it does not matter how many times one watches the video, but how much one likes it.
: Laura M
___________________
Dear Laura (I hope]: In no way did I mean for my comment to infer meanness on your part, nor did I realize I had misread the posting. I actually thought it was quite funny [perhaps I should have just said LOL -- see discussion of LOL below] and just wanted to play along.
Regards...
Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 29, 1996 at 13:28:56:
: Yes, especially after the superfluous Mr. Collins. A little bit of him goes a long way. Did he not seem surprised at being excluded from this excursion? Where is his prize? Oh, yes, the shelves at Hunsford cottage and the honour of lathering Lady C. twice weekly. Sorry.
: Back to Darcy - who was almost as ashamed of Lady C.'s poor behaviour as he was mortified by the Bingley sisters or the Bennets. He was repelled by her treatment of others, including himself, yet they were both intrigued by this young upstart Lizzy. The nerve! The audacity! I am not accustomed to such behaviour! Yes, I am excessively diverted. Doubly sorry.
: _________
___________________
I love the line from Mr. Collins: "Our intamacy with Rosings
is a blessing of which few could boast" or the Austen
version: "our situation with regard to Lady C.'s family is
indeed the sort of extraordinary advantage and blessing which
few can boast".
Indeed they could not!!!
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Mary H on October 29, 1996 at 13:30:44:
: Yes, that's true, but the poor man must have some entertainment, and even though it WAS ungracious, I still thought Mary got what she deserved, so I don't think it was that bad.
: Marsha
I think it's so important to Mr. Bennet to disassociate himself from the silly women in his family, that he sacrifices courtesy to Mary in this situation. He doesn't seem to realize that by doing so, he makes the family look even worse. Where did Jane and Lizzy get their manners anyway?
Mary H
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on October 29, 1996 at 13:31:16:
: Have I died - and gone to heaven? I rented this film about three weeks ago....watch it over and over - had to have it - spent $88.00 from Colombia house to get it and have seen it in excess of 15 times.
: I had NO idea that anyone else felt the same way as I do. I looked Colin Furth up on the net a week ago and KAPOW as Batman's Robin would say - here you all are!!!!! Please write to me at my E-mail address if
: possible - I would love to discuss this movie with anyone who has the crush on Darcy that I have. I can't remember when was the last time
: I felt this way about a film and its characters. Bravo!!
___________________
Welcome Patricia, to our merry little band of obsessives! We have all felt the relief and joy at finding this BB which you have expressed. It sounds as if you will be right at home here.
Cheryl
PS. Although you give your e-mail address when you post a note, it does not show up on the BB itself (this is a way to both police and protect posters, I believe) so if you wish anyone to e-mail you privately, you must post your address in the message body. And though we are excessively attentive to the feelings and privacy of the posters, you should know that *anyone* may visit this BB, there is a high number of "hits" to the BB, and if your address is published... As I say *we* are wonderful people, but you never know who may be passing through looking for addresses for junk mail lists. Just a word of caution.
That being said, feel free to write me at:
clsneed@ix.netcom.com
I cannot get enough of a good thing!
Posted by Ann on October 29, 1996 at 13:32:41:
: Has anyone seen the old Masterpiece Theater series "The Duchess of Duke Street"? It is supposedly based on an actual person.(My PBS station is re-showing it now.) Louisa was a cook and gained the attention of the Prince of Wales (Victoria's son). Not only did he admire her cooking, he admired her. She ended up marrying the butler of the household and they were set up in a house by the Prince so that he could have an affair with Louisa. He could not be dallying with unmarried women.
: Just a side note -- the woman who played Louisa (Gemma Jones) also played the mother in Sense and Sensibility.
: Anne
___________________
Oh yes! Bravo showed it a year or so ago. It was quite good,
and I'm hoping they'll show it again.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Annie on October 29, 1996 at 13:32:52:
: : : ___________________
: : : What I really don't understand is why you guys are charged ca. $100 for P&P2. In Britain it comes as a double tape all for the price of £19.99 ($30).
: : : Bernie
: : :
: : : ___________________
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : The A&E version of which we are speaking is the 6 volume set. Does the 2 volume set of which you speak contain the missing scenes (Darcy walking back to Rosings with the Lizzy/Darcy voice-overs, Darcy at Pemberly the evening after Lizzy leaves, etc)? The 6 volume set is approximately 5 hours long.
: : Anne
:
: ___________________
:
: : Our Blockbuster just recently got the tape; it is only available for one night rental. I did take it and raced through to find the missing scenes I had heard so much about, but had no time to watch the entirety. My idea of luxury will be when I can sit down with a glass of wine, Szechuan take-out, a quiet house... and watch from beginning to end. No interruptions.
: It'll never happen. Grace
___________________
Don't worry, the Blockbuster will eventually let you rent it for two nights (but even two nights isn't enough!!!). The two-tape version is five hours long and does include the missing scenes.
Annie
Posted by Cheryl on October 29, 1996 at 13:43:34:
: She's right, of course. How would the list have liked the 118 messages from yesterday had we believed they really wanted all this nonsense.
: Amy
___________________
Oh, I agree with you, there would have been much outrage and derision. I really enjoy Austen-L, I learn a great deal from every digest, but I would never dream of posting there. There is, I suppose, a little intimidation factor going on, with all the academics expounding and delving into both minutia and broader contributing issues of Jane Austens times. As I say, I love it, but I am "just a fan" and don't feel qualified to do anything but lurk. Now, obsession is something I know about! I lurked here for a couple of weeks and then couldn't refrain any longer and have managed to get over my shyness quite well (some would say *too* well!)
But the Austen-L people can be compulsive too; note the lengthly discussions still going on over Frank Churchill's character!
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by PAT on October 29, 1996 at 13:51:25:
: : ___________________
: : You can buy the tapes from A&E -- the 800 number is on their Web site. It comes with the book and costs about $110 with shipping, but I think it's also available elsewhere for less. Try the Links button at the top of this BB for sources.
:
: ___________________
: What I really don't understand is why you guys are charged ca. $100 for P&P2. In Britain it comes as a double tape all for the price of £19.99 ($30).
: Bernie
:
: _I managed to get the tapes for $75.00 from Colombia
House - and the reason they charge all out doors for them is
because they put the series on 6 different tapes (as opposed
to renting the film on 2 tapes. This way they get to
charge a ridiculous price for a movie and some of us fools
that love it so much are willing (well, not willing - but)
to pay for it as I have done.....Color me stupid - but I had
to have it and its seldom that I agree to pay this some
of money for anything - but its worth it.__________________
___________________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on October 29, 1996 at 13:55:10:
: Where did Jane and Lizzy get their manners anyway?
: Mary H
___________________
Perhaps they spent a good deal of time with their aunt and uncle, the Gardiners. It is said that there is a particularly intimate relationship between the aunt and her nieces. I am sure that Jane and Lizzy are (unlike Lydia) naturally good, but maybe when they see some of the Bennet madness infecting them, they hie themselves to London for a sanity check!
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Janet on October 29, 1996 at 14:22:24:
: :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : Yes! Yes! Yes! The arms behind their backs...I noticed this as well. Also, Darcy fiddling with his ring. Everything in this scene is sooo perfect. It definately leaves nothing wanting.
: : : Candace
: :
: : _________
: : Finally both Lizzy and Darcy are (almost) relaxed and content, as if they are starting over and meeting for the first time - on his lovely grounds at Pemberley, no less. Everything is almost perfect. There is still some strained tension, but with the sense that it can and will be resolved. At least the pride and prejudice, avoidance and pretense are gone, and they are nearly as one.
: : It must have been a relief for Darcy to finally be able to let down his guard a bit. Even though Lizzy was a "country girl", she was actually more on his level for standing up for herself and her beliefs as her own person with intelligence, charm and good character. She did not pursue him, but instead stood up to him and even rejected him, but for good moral cause. Now that he has found her and learned what he needs to change in order to win her - and to correct himself - he can relax a bit, especially since she seems responsive in turn.
: : Really, it is little wonder why Darcy behaved in such a proud and arrogant manner before he met Lizzy. After all, for most of his life he must have been on guard against pursuits from mother hens like Mrs. B. (and their manhunting daughters), manipulators like the Bingley sisters, high and mighties like Lady C., sychophants like Mr. Collins, panderers like Sir Lucas and scoundrels like Wickham. With his position and property to uphold and the responsibility of his sister's guardianship, he had to be careful. It may have been necessary to adopt an aloof air to protect himself from such undesireables. Since socializing and mating were the primary activities, he would have been serious prey. At last he has found his match, and all is right with the world - until the next challenge unfolds.
:
: ___________________
: Very nicely put Janet, but what a long time it has taken him to realise that Lizzie is indeed a match for him!!
: Bernie
:
: ___________________
:
_________
Or maybe Darcy knew Lizzy was the one from the start, but the right side of his brain (on a link similar to Caroline's?) was trying to rationalize/deny/dissuade him?
__________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Shelagh on October 29, 1996 at 14:34:17:
: Another thing that I love about this scene is that after Darcy ask's Lizzy to meet his sister he gives her a wonderful look of longing.His look lasts longer than it's supposed until finally he looks away, it reminds him of his feelings for her and he just can't stand not having her.Ooooh the poor man is in love. :IF
___________________
I have been reading this BB for about two weeks now and I finally felt a need to contribute. Probably the oldtimers are aware but maybe not everyone that Colin and Jennifer we carrying on a bona fide love affair while they were making the film and according to London news reports this made the loving looks we all enjoy so much very real. Colin reports he is not ready to settle down yet and at that time Jennifer was not commenting. Shelagh
Follow Ups:
Posted by Sarah on October 29, 1996 at 14:41:26:
: Have I died - and gone to heaven? I rented this film about three weeks ago....watch it over and over - had to have it - spent $88.00 from Colombia house to get it and have seen it in excess of 15 times.
: I had NO idea that anyone else felt the same way as I do. I looked Colin Furth up on the net a week ago and KAPOW as Batman's Robin would say - here you all are!!!!! Please write to me at my E-mail address if
: possible - I would love to discuss this movie with anyone who has the crush on Darcy that I have. I can't remember when was the last time
: I felt this way about a film and its characters. Bravo!!
:
___________________
:I felt the exact same way! These discussions have become my new "pasttime" when I come back from classes. I can't wait to watch my tape, again!
Posted by Sarah on October 29, 1996 at 14:45:03:
: : Another thing that I love about this scene is that after Darcy ask's Lizzy to meet his sister he gives her a wonderful look of longing.His look lasts longer than it's supposed until finally he looks away, it reminds him of his feelings for her and he just can't stand not having her.Ooooh the poor man is in love. :IF
:
: ___________________
: I have been reading this BB for about two weeks now and I finally felt a need to contribute. Probably the oldtimers are aware but maybe not everyone that Colin and Jennifer we carrying on a bona fide love affair while they were making the film and according to London news reports this made the loving looks we all enjoy so much very real. Colin reports he is not ready to settle down yet and at that time Jennifer was not commenting. Shelagh
:
___________________
:Lucky, lucky Jennifer! (Sigh...);) Sarah
Follow Ups:
[ Index by Subject ] [ Index by Date ] [ New P&P2 BB ] [ FAQ ] [ Links ]
Return to Archives home