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Posted by Bernie on October 29, 1996 at 04:36:13:
: :P.S someone mention the look on his face when they are leaving Pemberly :definitly a Look of Longing. Oh,yes definitly a look of longing.He's waiting there to see if she will look at him or show any sign that may give him hope.He does not want to miss a moment of her. :IF
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Absolutely, and did you notice his lingering touch as he handed her into the carriage. HE DEFINITELY DOESN'T WANT HER TO GO. Then we have that look of yearning, wistfully wondering when he'll see her again.
Finally, as the carriage rolls out of the grounds, we see Lizzie turning back to gaze back at the man she no longer detests, puzzled as to why he has has changed so much. Could it be for her ? Could the man that she spurned, love her still ?
The whole of this scene is just so wonderful. I've watched it over and over and over again!
Bernie
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Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 04:41:55:
: _________
: Welcome back, Amy. Just think, it's not even Halloween yet and you have already done Christmas. Does this mean you are done with your shopping and wrapping? I am indeed envious.
No, I still have my Christmas with my kids, but it is nice to have part of it behind me.
. Quite often if I type a post that takes more than a minute or so (as I tend to rattle on) - my connection goes dead. Then I have to back out and redo or finish the post off-line and reconnect. My server says this shouldn't happen, but it does.
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It shouldn't happen in a minute. Maybe you lose track of time? Try doing something else to keep the connection alive -- like get new email messages.
Amy
Posted by Bernie on October 29, 1996 at 04:43:11:
:
: : ___________________
: :
: : Yes! Yes! Yes! The arms behind their backs...I noticed this as well. Also, Darcy fiddling with his ring. Everything in this scene is sooo perfect. It definately leaves nothing wanting.
: : Candace
:
: _________
: Finally both Lizzy and Darcy are (almost) relaxed and content, as if they are starting over and meeting for the first time - on his lovely grounds at Pemberley, no less. Everything is almost perfect. There is still some strained tension, but with the sense that it can and will be resolved. At least the pride and prejudice, avoidance and pretense are gone, and they are nearly as one.
: It must have been a relief for Darcy to finally be able to let down his guard a bit. Even though Lizzy was a "country girl", she was actually more on his level for standing up for herself and her beliefs as her own person with intelligence, charm and good character. She did not pursue him, but instead stood up to him and even rejected him, but for good moral cause. Now that he has found her and learned what he needs to change in order to win her - and to correct himself - he can relax a bit, especially since she seems responsive in turn.
: Really, it is little wonder why Darcy behaved in such a proud and arrogant manner before he met Lizzy. After all, for most of his life he must have been on guard against pursuits from mother hens like Mrs. B. (and their manhunting daughters), manipulators like the Bingley sisters, high and mighties like Lady C., sychophants like Mr. Collins, panderers like Sir Lucas and scoundrels like Wickham. With his position and property to uphold and the responsibility of his sister's guardianship, he had to be careful. It may have been necessary to adopt an aloof air to protect himself from such undesireables. Since socializing and mating were the primary activities, he would have been serious prey. At last he has found his match, and all is right with the world - until the next challenge unfolds.
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Very nicely put Janet, but what a long time it has taken him to realise that Lizzie is indeed a match for him!!
Bernie
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Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 05:12:40:
Maybe I should clarify. Here's how I see it.
- A few members of the Austen-L let it slip they had watched P&P2 a few more times than was good for them
- I said maybe there ought to be a support group
- A few started to take the idea seriously
- I asked for input -- would the list miss the discussions?
- Yes! they all said. Don't go.
- In the meantime I had worked out how to put this board up and could not stand the idea of not putting it up so I did. But I never announced its existence to the Austen-L list, since I did not want to draw off the conversation it wanted to keep.
- Sometime in early August Yahoo picked it up, then Internet Movie database. Then I stopped promoting.
That's the story.
Amy
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Posted by Bernie on October 29, 1996 at 05:23:18:
: ___________________
: Great minds must truly think alike! After viewing and reviewing P&P, I got to thinking how wonderful Cf would be in the Scarlet Pimpernel. I gort the book, read it about ten times, rented the original movie with Leslie Howard & Merle Oberon (surprisingly good but not always faithful to the book) and started to write a screenplay more in keeping with the suspense and issues in the book. Just a bit more of my CF and indirectly P&P obsession. I, too, read the Emma Tennant books and found them in accurate and generally dreadful. Julia Barret was somewhat less dreadful. I thought "if they can get this rubbish published, why can't I write something?" Not a sequel, mind you, just some ruminations.. mostly about what happens to Darcy in those months between Rosings and Pemberley. I have about fifteen pages written, which wasn't so difficult, given my obsession with the book and telecast. (I began to speak "Austenese" many months ago.)
: One related book, which I found helpful in explaining some social questions of the time, is "What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew" by Pool. It is not a stuffy, scholarly work, but well-researched and easy to read. Great reference for 19th century Brit-Lit.
: One thing I learned from this book was the reason for the high rank Darcy enjoyed. Lady Catherine says somewhere in P&P novel that he was "from an ancient, though untitled, family.." His first name Fitzwilliam (from the French fils or son) as well as his last (d'Arcy) are from the French. Families that could trace their ancestry back to the Normans, even without titles, were considered superior, it seems, to other nobility, and perhaps, Anglo Saxons. In fact, in JA many of her heroes have names that are basically French, while the villians usually do not. (My own observation)
: Anyway, I have digressed here a great deal. Perhaps this is not the correct place to post a message, but I had such a hard time figuring out what to do, that I thought I should say everything in one place rather than risk screwing up somewhere. (I am not very technically endowed.)
: BTW, I love reading everyone's comments, many of which reflect my own questions, thoughts, and feelings.
: Hasta luego. genie
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Incidentally, Fitzwilliam means bastard son of William. It was not uncommon in those days for males of royal or noble standing to have extra marital dalliances ( potential Grace and Anna-Karin fodder here, I think!). The progeny of these unions were often not ostracised, and if they were the only male scion, they could inherit titles and estates (I think I'm right in saying that -- help HC, please). In order to distinguish them from the true lineage "Fitz" was added to their name.
Bernie
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Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 05:23:23:
The actors do so much with facial expressions in this production. All Lizzy has to do with Wickham is raise her eyebrows and sort of look over some imaginary half glasses as if to say, "I'm on to you, pal." She does not need to say a thing. Yet he gets the message.
Amy
Posted by Bernie on October 29, 1996 at 05:41:16:
: : : : Folks! This thread is starting to sound like one of Emma Tennant's sequels!
: : : : Bernie
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : Fill us in Bernie, just a little and whats the title.
: : : Thanks Donna
: :
: : ___________________
: : Briefly, Emma Tennant has written two P&P sequels; one shortly after Lizzie's marriage to Mr. Darcy and the second about 18 years further on. Both are pretty inaccurate, if you ask me.
: : Anyhow from what I remember, in the first sequel Pemberley Lizzie is now residing permanently in Derbyshire. Jane lives about 25 miles down the road and has a baby daughter. It is approaching Christmas time and the Darcy's are preparing for a large family get together -- Georgiana, the Gardiners, Mrs. Bennet (Mr. Bennet is dead) + Kitty and Mary, the Bingley's (sans Duckface) are all invited -- Darcy decides he has to invite Lady C. As it turns out, Duckface turns up at the Bingley's and the Wickhams end up coming to stay in the Gardiners house in the North!! Also, her family and neighbours are giving her very strong hints that it is about time she produced an heir -- she has been married for over a year; Jane has 1 + 1 on the way and Lydia has four!! She is also somewhat proccupied on that score and confides to Jane that she thinks she is barren.
: : As you can gather Duckface and the Wickhams end up at Pemberley. The family gathering is an unmitigated disaster. Mrs. Bennet, especially is so vulgar and crude! Darcy gets an important message and says he must leave for London immediately. Lizzie can't stand staying at Pemberley, so takes a walk to the village. There she espies Darcy walking with a small boy. She immediately jumps to the conclusion that the boy is Darcy's love child .......
: : I could go on, but you should get the jist of the story. As far as I'm concerned, this doesn't even come close to JA's novels. A lot of the basic facts are wrong -- almost as if Emma Tennant hasn't read P&P. Also Lizzie is portrayed as a spineless, whining, weepy chit -- completely contradictory to the Lizzie we all know and love. IMHO if you want some candy floss to read, then go ahead, otherwise I wouldn't bother!!
: : Sorry about rambling on so, I got a touch carried away!!
: : Bernie
: :
: : ___________________
:
: ___________________
: I get the message. I'll stick with JA. I couldn't imagine writing a sequel and not reading the orginal book, beside know one will ever take her place.
: Thanks Donna
: PS there are certain times in some of the books about her that you can't help filling-up at the loss. Even the person who wrote the book feels a great loss.{I guess they would not have written the book if they didn't.}
: Thanks Donna
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Donna,
I wasn't trying to criticise the little caveats and vignettes that people had imagined in the intervening scenes that JA had left out. When I was referring to the thread sounding like an Emma Tennant sequel, I was really commenting on all the references to the separation of L and D and all the talk about babies! I just got a bit carried away slating ET's effort, thats's all.
Anyway I really enjoy all these various tidbits created by the BB'ers, they've kept me amused for many an hour.
Bernie
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Posted by IF on October 29, 1996 at 05:52:10:
Another thing that I love about this scene is that after Darcy ask's Lizzy to meet his sister he gives her a wonderful look of longing.His look lasts longer than it's supposed until finally he looks away, it reminds him of his feelings for her and he just can't stand not having her.Ooooh the poor man is in love. :IF
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Posted by Anne on October 29, 1996 at 08:09:19:
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: What I really don't understand is why you guys are charged ca. $100 for P&P2. In Britain it comes as a double tape all for the price of £19.99 ($30).
: Bernie
:
: ___________________
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The A&E version of which we are speaking is the 6 volume set. Does the 2 volume set of which you speak contain the missing scenes (Darcy walking back to Rosings with the Lizzy/Darcy voice-overs, Darcy at Pemberly the evening after Lizzy leaves, etc)? The 6 volume set is approximately 5 hours long.
Anne
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Posted by Anne on October 29, 1996 at 08:23:00:
: I could not help but think of the current British royal family as I read your description of convenient compromise arrangements with married women. In that instance, purportedly the lady's marriage was devised in advance as a foil for the royal affair. Such relationships have transcended history, particularly within the upper and ruling and classes, between married or unmarried men and married women - all with cuckolds lying in abeyence.
: _________
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Has anyone seen the old Masterpiece Theater series "The Duchess of Duke Street"? It is supposedly based on an actual person.(My PBS station is re-showing it now.) Louisa was a cook and gained the attention of the Prince of Wales (Victoria's son). Not only did he admire her cooking, he admired her. She ended up marrying the butler of the household and they were set up in a house by the Prince so that he could have an affair with Louisa. He could not be dallying with unmarried women.
Just a side note -- the woman who played Louisa (Gemma Jones) also played the mother in Sense and Sensibility.
Anne
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Posted by Alicia on October 29, 1996 at 08:31:27:
:
: : Get a life guys, I have seen it at least 500x's. So does that make me the biggest couch potato. I think so. I have seen P&P1 3x, P&P0 2x, and P&P3 500x.
: ___________________
: Now, now Alicia. Let's not exaggerate. I'm sure I've watched P&P at least 20 times through, from Rosings Park through the end an additional 10. I've watched P&P1 about 5 times through...frankly there are a few things better in P&P 1, mostly in the script.
: It IS definitely part of my life.
: Tommye
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Tommye-
I DIDN'T MAKE THE COMMENT YOU ARE REFERRING TO!!
-Alicia
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Posted by Kim on October 29, 1996 at 09:35:48:
My computer has been messed up. I'm just testing to make sure everything is back to normal.
Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 10:15:06:
: Anyone else have comments about Hostages?
: -Ramona (visiting)
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Ramona,
Glad you will be able to check in with us once in a while.
Amy
Posted by Cheryl on October 29, 1996 at 10:17:20:
: - In the meantime I had worked out how to put this board up and could not stand the idea of not putting it up so I did. But I never announced its existence to the Austen-L list, since I did not want to draw off the conversation it wanted to keep.
: - Sometime in early August Yahoo picked it up, then Internet Movie database. Then I stopped promoting.
: That's the story.
: Amy
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I remember the discussion of a support group on Austen-L, and kept thinking "yeah, I need it bad" but then it was gone. I wish you had announced the creation of this BB on Austen-L, but I understand the reasoning behind it. I found it through Yahoo in August and the rest, of course, is history!
Cheryl
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Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 10:17:53:
I am a avid lurker(?) of this bb and a very seldom poster to it, but I have been here almost from the start, and find that I cannot go many days without checking in.
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Terese,
Thanks for letting us know you are there. Any other lurkers who care to just pop their heads out from behind the fern and say you are among us? We would like to know, but if you don't care to that's okay too.
Amy
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Posted by Grace on October 29, 1996 at 10:22:41:
: : : :
: : : : : Yes, but Mr. Knightly pitied her more for her financial situation than her marital one.
: : : : : :
: : : : Even though she continued to write romantic novels, JA seemed to be saying that only marriages where the parties were well matched and truly in love were really advisable.
: : : : :
: : : : : Mary H
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : :
: : : : : For most women of the time, financial situation was tied to marriage. Jane Austen did not lead a life of affluence, but she did at least have a brother who was in a position to provide financial assistance. She also had the power to earn some money through her novels. Was it for these reasons
: : : : perhaps that she could afford to take a more romantic view of marriage?
: : : : Getting back to Charlotte, let's remember that when she grows tired of her poultry,etc. she will no doubt become mistress of Longbourn and have the added diversion of living near her family.
: : : : Hilary, in the early 1800's, under the same circumstances as Charlotte ---I would have taken the same deal. I am being serious.
: : : : Grace
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : I don't want to seem high and mighty. But I do think JA's *intention* was to advise us that Charlotte's decision was wrong and Lizzie's two were right.
: : : Hilary
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : : Jane sent a definite message about the advantage of marrying for love, I do agree.
: : As for the decisions we might make as single women of the time, I'm sure we would do whatever was necessary to survive.
: : Grace
:
: ___________________
: I have tried in vain,It will not do...
: I can visualize lying in bed on my wedding night when Mr.Collins, my husband walks in, a big smile across his face and
: NO NO NO NO I cannot go any furthur! since you could not be married without consumating the marriage I could not marry him. ooooo ick!!!!
: You are very right about surviving but surely there was another way. What other options were available to women? Anyone know?
: Mich
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: Mich, the lighting in those times would have been very poor.......is that any consolation to you?
Vision problems can prove a blessing at times. Grace
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Posted by Laura M on October 29, 1996 at 10:33:00:
: : Get a life guys : :
I wrote that not to be mean, but fun-spirited. I know I have no life, which is why I watch P&P over and over again.
Sorry Alicia, that you were the one who was accused of saying this. I did only mean in it jest. I was trying to make a point that it does not matter how many times one watches the video, but how much one likes it.
Laura M
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Posted by Grace on October 29, 1996 at 10:33:53:
: : ___________________
: : What I really don't understand is why you guys are charged ca. $100 for P&P2. In Britain it comes as a double tape all for the price of £19.99 ($30).
: : Bernie
: :
: : ___________________
:
: ___________________
:
: The A&E version of which we are speaking is the 6 volume set. Does the 2 volume set of which you speak contain the missing scenes (Darcy walking back to Rosings with the Lizzy/Darcy voice-overs, Darcy at Pemberly the evening after Lizzy leaves, etc)? The 6 volume set is approximately 5 hours long.
: Anne
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: Our Blockbuster just recently got the tape; it is only available for one night rental. I did take it and raced through to find the missing scenes I had heard so much about, but had no time to watch the entirety. My idea of luxury will be when I can sit down with a glass of wine, Szechuan take-out, a quiet house... and watch from beginning to end. No interruptions.
It'll never happen. Grace
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Posted by Grace on October 29, 1996 at 10:43:41:
:
: : : The sad result of all of this is that - between the way JA and Davies wrote Darcy, and the way CF plays him - expectations of mortal men are so high. It is very hard to find a man in everyday life to measure up to this standard. But some of us keep trying.
: : : Anne
: :
: : ___________________
: : Then I must count myself as one of the lucky ones. My husband not only puts up with this little obsession of mine, he actually understands it! I am a avid lurker(?) of this bb and a very seldom poster to it, but I have been here almost from the start, and find that I cannot go many days without checking in. Thanks to all of you for giving me such a great place to hang out! And let me assure you all that great Darcy-like men do exist. I married one almost six years ago.
:
: ___________________
: The lucky ones? Winning a million bucks in the lottery in lucky. In marrying a Darcy-like man, I think you join a category known as the incredibly, miraculously, overwhelmingly-blessed-by-the-heavens-for-all-eternity ones.
: Thanks for the encouragement to the rest of us, though.
: --Arnessa
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: Darcy-like men certainly do exist.... but alas, even they occasionally display bursts of Hurst.
Ever a realist, Grace
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Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 10:44:28:
:
: What's the Austen list, and how does one join it? Many thanks.
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It is an email discussion group. Read all about it on Henry's site. There's a special link to the Austen-L info section of the Jane Info page from the links page here.
Amy
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