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Posted by Mich on October 28, 1996 at 23:41:47:
: : yes some of them went over the top but over all I thought they fit in with Austins characters.
: : Which one did you like the best?
: Ooh, toughie. I like the one where Darcy talks to Mr. Bennet and I'm a sucker for the "Georgianna Overlistens" one. VERY mushy and I would never admit that to anyone else, but with you, dear friends, I must be completely honest. I am most grieviously to be pitied.
I also enjoyed the one where Lizzie is excluded from a lunch with Bingley, Darcy, Jane and the Bingley sisters. Well done.
Posted by Anne on October 28, 1996 at 23:57:39:
... and it comes in a really nice box with a picture of Colin Firth down the side.
I have that picture as my wallpaper on my PC -- I don't even have to logon to enjoy my PC (the machine is always on).
Posted by Donna on October 29, 1996 at 00:02:28:
: : : of that wonderful movie! Are there any other books that are similar to JA's that are a real good read? I just finished A Long Fatal Love Chase so I am looking for another adventure! Thanks, Sarah
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : Georgett Heyer is pretty good for that time period, & is very funny- she has some comedies ans some adventures, and she wrote a LOT- so it will occupy a considerable time!
: : : Marsha (a first-year Cornell student)
: : ___________________
: : : Start with Heyer's Arabella. The hero, Mr. Beaumaris is definitely a Darcy wannabee.
: : Don't miss The Scarlet Pimpernel for adventure and restrained passion. (I think we should begin a campaign to get this remade with Colin Firth in the lead.... and no Jane Seymour,PLEASE).
: : Presumption and The Third Sister (Barrett)are okay in the sequel department, harmless enough and entertaining.
: Great minds must truly think alike! After viewing and reviewing P&P, I got to thinking how wonderful Cf would be in the Scarlet Pimpernel. I gort the book, read it about ten times, rented the original movie with Leslie Howard & Merle Oberon (surprisingly good but not always faithful to the book) and started to write a screenplay more in keeping with the suspense and issues in the book. Just a bit more of my CF and indirectly P&P obsession. I, too, read the Emma Tennant books and found them in accurate and generally dreadful. Julia Barret was somewhat less dreadful. I thought "if they can get this rubbish published, why can't I write something?" Not a sequel, mind you, just some ruminations.. mostly about what happens to Darcy in those months between Rosings and Pemberley. I have about fifteen pages written, which wasn't so difficult, given my obsession with the book and telecast. (I began to speak "Austenese" many months ago.)
: One related book, which I found helpful in explaining some social questions of the time, is "What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew" by Pool. It is not a stuffy, scholarly work, but well-researched and easy to read. Great reference for 19th century Brit-Lit.
: One thing I learned from this book was the reason for the high rank Darcy enjoyed. Lady Catherine says somewhere in P&P novel that he was "from an ancient, though untitled, family.." His first name Fitzwilliam (from the French fils or son) as well as his last (d'Arcy) are from the French. Families that could trace their ancestry back to the Normans, even without titles, were considered superior, it seems, to other nobility, and perhaps, Anglo Saxons. In fact, in JA many of her heroes have names that are basically French, while the villians usually do not. (My own observation)
: Anyway, I have digressed here a great deal. Perhaps this is not the correct place to post a message, but I had such a hard time figuring out what to do, that I thought I should say everything in one place rather than risk screwing up somewhere. (I am not very technically endowed.)
: BTW, I love reading everyone's comments, many of which reflect my own questions, thoughts, and feelings.
: Hasta luego. genie
Genie this is a suggestion maybe you should write from Mr. Darcy's point of view. Not just what happens to him between Rosings and Pemberly but even his view of Lizzie from the very beginning. Maybe I am wrong but could that be a possibilty or would that be boring.It is a fact that JA wrote from a womans point of view. It does leave us wanting more. It is nothing to do with being male or female. It is just a suggestion. It does sound like you are doing that to some degree already. Its great, I am sure yours would be better then some of the stuff thats out there.
P.S.I do have that book by Pool. I wanted to know more about the 1800 century. His comparision are a little thin. He refers to certain books that I have never read. Also I haven't read the entire book just certain parts.
Posted by Mich on October 29, 1996 at 00:09:24:
: : : By the way did you see the photo of the real Jennifer Ehle? Can you believe -- with straight blonde hair? What a shock.
: : ___________________
: : I had heard her described as a young Meryl Streep -- and in the picture she really does.
: : As mentioned before -- the book is fantastic, but even if it were not, the picture on page 98 would be worth the cost.
: : Anne
: Just checked the picture on Page 98 -- Somehow I suspected which one it was the moment you mentioned it! What a wonderful shot (Firth semismiling).
: I was very impressed with Colin Firth's interview. It really helped me understand the character, because Austen doesn't tell us what Darcy is thinking since things are seen from Elizabeth's point of view. I think Firth really "got" what was going on in Darcy's mind, and that showed in his performance.
: In the "Making of" book it was also fun to see what the characters look like in real life. I'm still in shock over Jennifer Ehle.....
How about Lady C... WOW
Posted by Janet on October 29, 1996 at 00:11:50:
: : I do not think he would involve himself with a married lady at all he seem to be mor moral thar most men of his class were and his horror over Wickham seem real (otherwhise he would have been a real hypcrite he has many faults but hardly that. Even if I think he maybe had some experience before Lizzy it would hardly be with a married lady or a open prostitute. Maybe with a widow or actress of some kind. At least he would never willingly compromise hurt or abandon a lady.or leaving one one the street.
: : a married lady never!!!!!
: : Anna-Karin
: Sorry I haven't answered before, but I only have access to the Net at work and in the afternoons generally. I guess we have to disagree. My reading of the Regency period, and some other novels of then, is that it was fairly common for married woman, who were not married for love or whose husband had decided to go his own way, to take lovers, preferably young unmarried men of her own class. The advantage of these women for someone like Darcy is that it is fairly discreet, there is no expectation that it will be more than a brief affair, and any children will be the husband's,and they are likely (not necessarily) to be disease free. Far preferable to prostitutes and serving girls, although less spectacular than actresses. Darcy does have horror of Wickham and is more moral, but he disapproves of Wickham's continual interest in vice instead of learning a respectable profession and his penchant for going after innocent young women of good family. I don't think a gentleman of Darcy's social position in that time disapproved of a moderate amount of sex outside of marriage, indeed a male would probably be considered strange if he did not.
I could not help but think of the current British royal family as I read your description of convenient compromise arrangements with married women. In that instance, purportedly the lady's marriage was devised in advance as a foil for the royal affair. Such relationships have transcended history, particularly within the upper and ruling and classes, between married or unmarried men and married women - all with cuckolds lying in abeyence.
Posted by Donna on October 29, 1996 at 00:14:14:
: Back in July or June, the Austen listers were upset that people were constantly talking about the newer P&P. so people were thinking about splitting the group. The Austen group did not want to split. You know Quebec Redux. So Amy took it upon herself to start this list anyway. And great thing that she has done. Because a couple of Austenites even post, myself included. So I hope I gave you a brief synopsis of how this wonderful BB started.
I quess some didn't like the new movie version.
Posted by Mich on October 29, 1996 at 00:42:30:
: : :
: : : : Yes, but Mr. Knightly pitied her more for her financial situation than her marital one.
: : : : :
: : : Even though she continued to write romantic novels, JA seemed to be saying that only marriages where the parties were well matched and truly in love were really advisable.
: : : :
: : : : Mary H
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : : For most women of the time, financial situation was tied to marriage. Jane Austen did not lead a life of affluence, but she did at least have a brother who was in a position to provide financial assistance. She also had the power to earn some money through her novels. Was it for these reasons
: : : perhaps that she could afford to take a more romantic view of marriage?
: : : Getting back to Charlotte, let's remember that when she grows tired of her poultry,etc. she will no doubt become mistress of Longbourn and have the added diversion of living near her family.
: : : Hilary, in the early 1800's, under the same circumstances as Charlotte ---I would have taken the same deal. I am being serious.
: : : Grace
: : ___________________
: : I don't want to seem high and mighty. But I do think JA's *intention* was to advise us that Charlotte's decision was wrong and Lizzie's two were right.
: : Hilary
: : Jane sent a definite message about the advantage of marrying for love, I do agree.
: As for the decisions we might make as single women of the time, I'm sure we would do whatever was necessary to survive.
I have tried in vain,It will not do...
I can visualize lying in bed on my wedding night when Mr.Collins, my husband walks in, a big smile across his face and
NO NO NO NO I cannot go any furthur! since you could not be married without consumating the marriage I could not marry him. ooooo ick!!!!
You are very right about surviving but surely there was another way. What other options were available to women? Anyone know?
Posted by Janet on October 29, 1996 at 00:49:52:
: : Back in July or June, the Austen listers were upset that people were constantly talking about the newer P&P. so people were thinking about splitting the group. The Austen group did not want to split. You know Quebec Redux. So Amy took it upon herself to start this list anyway. And great thing that she has done. Because a couple of Austenites even post, myself included. So I hope I gave you a brief synopsis of how this wonderful BB started.
: : Laura
: I quess some didn't like the new movie version.
: Thanks Donna
If that was what provoked the secession, then all hail to Amy! One of the wonderful effects of this BB is the inspiration to enjoy and appreciate it all the more. There is a spirit of goodness and understanding here, and honest communication without negativism for its own sake. JA herself would be proud indeed.
Posted by Mich on October 29, 1996 at 00:57:11:
: Are there any other books that are similar to JA's that are a real good read? Thanks, Sarah
I just finish "A Town called Alice" it was very good. I recently watched the BBC version on video and it was also very good.
Posted by Mich on October 29, 1996 at 01:07:01:
: Does it bother anyone else how non-confrontive everyone is in P&P? The situation that immediately comes to mind is when Wickham returns to Longbourne with Lydia, then has a private moment with Lizzy. While she does, in fact, let him know that she is aware of what REALLY happened, she is altogether amiable and even passive towards him. Gross. I mean, the man lied and lied to her, her family, everyone in the town, cast grievous aspersions on Darcy's character, then acted out his disgusting penchant for little girls by absconding with Lydia and taking her virginity away (though she appeared eager to have it taken, he was more than aware of the grave, irretrievable nature of the damage he was doing to her).
: Even Mr. B was amiable. I mean, couldn't somebody just confront the slimy deceiver?
: Of course, there are quite a few more instances in P&P.
: Also, in Sense and Sensibility.
: People just made assumptions about others all over the place, and few bothered to check out the facts. Then, when they got the facts, they still didn't confront!
: Most frustrating!
I had never thought of it that way,very interesting.
I always thought they were confrontive, maybe not in a hostile aggresive way but I thought the subtleness more poignant. I almost admired the way Lizzie could insult Wickham without giving the slime ball anything to come back with. I was surprised and Mr.B not showing the least bit of hostility towards the man who had to paid off to marry his daughter.
Posted by Ann2 on October 29, 1996 at 01:53:42:
: : (8) Linen colored stripe-----church in the beginning , both of Darcy's proposals
: This dress is also worn when she says good-bye to Wickham before leaving for Kent, on her arrival at Hunsford, when Darcy and the Colonel first call at the parsonage, while walking in Rosings Park with the Colonel, at supper at the Inn in Lambton, in the showdown with Lady Catherine, and several other small scenes that do not jump immediately to mind. (I will have to count next time I view the video from start to end.) Sometimes it is worn with a (short) jacket over it, so is not as obvious. So this is the one that I think JE was referring to in the A&E interview.
: Joan, too
Do you by *linen coloured* mean a light yellow shade? If that be the case that is my choice to. It seems to be soft and easy to move in. My dress research has been resting for over a month now due to circumstances beyond my control.
But yesterday I found Darcy´s fencing shirt rather nice. And that black scarves (or something) he wears instead og a belt
rather casual and vaguely reminding of The black ribbon in karate. But that is a beginners colour is it not. And Darcy
seems to attract some audience while fencing, implying that he is *worth watching*. I say amen to that ladies!
Ann2 (Skillful digression, was it not?)
Posted by Ann2 on October 29, 1996 at 02:08:38:
: I know that we haven't actually *heard* from Amy, but there is evidence that she has returned to safely to us from the wilds of Michigan, to wit: the BB has been pared down with old postings removed. Now it only takes 45 seconds for me to reload the BB instead of the 1:30 I have been experiencing.
: Amy, did you have a nice Christmas, was Santa good to you? We missed you and were mostly well-behaved in your absence!
Hope yours was a good family celebration and a not too tiresome drive. Suppose Michigan is rather like Sweden in October. Lots of grey shades and now and then a wonderfully bright and sunny day with beautiful coulours on the trees and a cool, clear air to breath.
This morning in the paper, I read an interesting thing about the cultural atmosphere and how vital it is to have places like cafeés(?) where you can chat and communicate, try your opinions on fellow men and get to know what your wiews on life really are. This board immediately came to my mind!I think we all benefit from it and it is Your Doing Amy. Praised be this board!
Posted by Kali on October 29, 1996 at 03:13:19:
: Something I realized today and have since read on the BB also is that this P&P2 addiction is a happy addiction. Few addicts of other mood-altering things would not confess to wanting release, freedom from its grip. However, I find great pleasure in daily renewing, refreshing and feeding my P&P2 addiction. Perhaps one day my family will call for some sort of intervention/confrontational treatment.
: ::Thought for the Day, brought to you by Tommye
It's a cold world out there - we all have to find some way to feather our nests!
Posted by Kali on October 29, 1996 at 03:28:37:
: : I while back was having some trouble with my VCR. During this
: : time I recorded two hours of random programming off of A&E. Just
: : now, I was looking through the tape to see what was on it, and
: : after an old country music concert, I saw the most exciting sight:
: : It was a screen with the words:
: : Making of Pride and Prejudice
: : Needless to say, my heart began to race. Unfortunately it was
: : only a 6 minute filler-piece that they were using to promote P&P2.
: : It was mostly scenes from the show, but it also had some shots of
: : the filming and some tiny snippets from some of the interviews.
: : The longest snippet was from Bohnam-Carter (he said that they
: : were told all sorts of stuff about the period, when everybody
: : had soooo much time on their hands the only thing they had to do
: : was wonder about who they would marry). Unfortunately the clip
: : from Firth was the shortest and he didn't say anything memorable.
: : It left me hungry for so much more!
: : We have to get A&E to put "Making of" up for sale in their store!
: : Ann
: If I remember correctly, the portion of the Firth interview they showed didn't make him look too terribly intelligent. If we got to see more, perhaps we'd get the context we need to understand exactly what he's trying to say.
: - K
PS - I'm not trying to be negative, I just wish they'd given us more than a "sound bite"! ; )
Posted by Bernie on October 29, 1996 at 03:53:15:
: : : (8) Linen colored stripe-----church in the beginning , both of Darcy's proposals
: : This dress is also worn when she says good-bye to Wickham before leaving for Kent, on her arrival at Hunsford, when Darcy and the Colonel first call at the parsonage, while walking in Rosings Park with the Colonel, at supper at the Inn in Lambton, in the showdown with Lady Catherine, and several other small scenes that do not jump immediately to mind. (I will have to count next time I view the video from start to end.) Sometimes it is worn with a (short) jacket over it, so is not as obvious. So this is the one that I think JE was referring to in the A&E interview.
: : Joan, too
: Do you by *linen coloured* mean a light yellow shade? If that be the case that is my choice to. It seems to be soft and easy to move in. My dress research has been resting for over a month now due to circumstances beyond my control.
: But yesterday I found Darcy´s fencing shirt rather nice. And that black scarves (or something) he wears instead og a belt
: rather casual and vaguely reminding of The black ribbon in karate. But that is a beginners colour is it not. And Darcy
: seems to attract some audience while fencing, implying that he is *worth watching*. I say amen to that ladies!
: Ann2 (Skillful digression, was it not?)
Yes, I also think that the beige muslin is the dress that JE is referring to. She also states in the making of P&P that she was very grateful for the wardrobe department supplying her mainly muslin dresses (fairly light and summery) and not heavy velvets and rich silks (like Caroline Bingley's and Louisa Hurst's), 'cos it was a fairly hot summer that year.
Posted by Joan, too on October 29, 1996 at 03:53:56:
: Do you by *linen coloured* mean a light yellow shade?
That was Ann's wording, but that must be the one that she meant - since it was worn in both proposals, it is clear which one she is speaking of. :-)
: If that be the case that is my choice to. It seems to be soft and easy to move in.
Yes, it looks to be the most comfortable one; she even managed to sit with her feet up on the sofa at the parsonage in it. (What would Mr. C. have said!?)
: My dress research has been resting for over a month now due to circumstances beyond my control. But yesterday I found Darcy´s fencing shirt rather nice. And that black scarves (or something) he wears instead og a belt rather casual and vaguely reminding of The black ribbon in karate. But that is a beginners colour is it not. And Darcy seems to attract some audience while fencing, implying that he is *worth watching*. I say amen to that ladies! (Skillful digression, was it not?)
Indeed it was! Isn't that actually his regular shirt with the collar unbuttoned? And also looks the same as the one he wears when he swims.
Posted by Bernie on October 29, 1996 at 04:02:30:
: : When Lizzy is reading Darcy's letter and he mentions the total
: : want of propriety by her family - occassionally even by your
: : father - the scene that is shown is where Mr. B tells Mary
: : that she has delighted them quite enough (with her playing). I
: : don't feel that this is a want of propriety. I feel that this is
: : a very sensitive way of getting Mary to stop without actually
: : telling her that she's not very good and embarrassing them.
: : I feel the want of propriety on Mr. B's part is in allowing his
: : daughters and wife to behave the way they do.
: : Just a thought.
: : Anne
: But Mr. B's remark was snide, ungracious and obvious, and he did not make an effort to be polite which was apparently reflected back in his daughters' behaviour.__________
I agree. Even Lizzie, who wished her father to intervene -- to prevent Mary making a total laughing stock of herself -- was shocked and distressed at his manner. Just look at her start and turn away with mortification.
Posted by Bernie on October 29, 1996 at 04:11:35:
: You can buy the tapes from A&E -- the 800 number is on their Web site. It comes with the book and costs about $110 with shipping, but I think it's also available elsewhere for less. Try the Links button at the top of this BB for sources.
What I really don't understand is why you guys are charged ca. $100 for P&P2. In Britain it comes as a double tape all for the price of £19.99 ($30).
Posted by Amy on October 29, 1996 at 04:31:01:
: I too hope you had a good Christmas, and that your sons
: didn't drive you nuts while you drove them to Michigan.
Thanks everybody. The kids liked it. Christmas in October does not work for me, but I had a good time helping my brother and sister in law with their computers. Tech talk has nearly replaced football watching in our generation of the family at holidays.
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