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Posted by Mich on October 28, 1996 at 18:41:18:
: : : : I like how JA shows how Lizzie feels when Darcy comes back to Longbourne and he doesn't
: : : : approach her fast enough. "If he no longer cares for me,why be silent?Teasing,teasing man!
: : : : She is hooked.
: : : : ciao Donna
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : I wondered if it was because he'd done all the running in the past and it was up to her now to give him a bit of encouragement.
: : : Though after Lady Catherine got in on the act he was fairly sure that Lizzie must have liked him a little!
: : : Cheers
: : : Rose
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Yes, it was and she still thought that he should be just has attentive as before, but now he made her wait. Teasing teasing man. Threir rolls have reversed a little.
: : ciao Donna
:
: ___________________
: No, I don't think so. I think they both have too much at stake to be teasing and playing games here. In Lizzie's case it would be improper for her to directly broach the subject. For Darcy its a matter of once bitten, twice shy. And until the walk to Meryton they do not have the opportunity to talk together, and they were (as later acknowleged) both embarrassed, so neither encouraged the other. Thanks be to Lady C, who was so useful!
: Hilary
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Yes,yes In the book that meeting is much longer, with both feeling uncomfortable. I believe they both explained it by admitting they were reacting to each others being so uncomfortable and silent. Lady C visit came after this meeting.
Mich
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Posted by Anne on October 28, 1996 at 18:56:24:
: Get a life guys, I have seen it at least 500x's. So does that make me the biggest couch potato. I think so. I have seen P&P1 3x, P&P0 2x, and P&P3 500x.
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Dear Laura M.
It is you who is in need of a life :-) - though 500x of P&P2 isn't all that bad of a life. I have seen it all the way through only 10 or so times, however, I have seen from volume 3 to the end at least 100. I have the set and I have the complete video on one cassette (mainly so that I don't have to keep getting up to change the cassette) so I am seeing the 'complete' story more now.
I saw P&P1 when it was first on PBS and have now bought the video. I watched it again a couple of weeks ago. I enjoyed it and found a few (a very few) areas that I liked better than P&P2 - however P&P2 is the definite favorite and CF is definitely the quintessential Darcy.
Anne
Posted by Rebecca on October 28, 1996 at 18:59:37:
: Now that says to me that Georgiana knew something of how highly Darcy regarded Elizabeth, but for the life of me I can't imagine Darcy ever saying so outright to the sister whom he regards more like a daughter, nor can I see Georgiana being perceptive enough to realise how Darcy felt about Lizzy. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Georgiana, but I just can't picture her realising how important it was for Darcy that the two women like each other. After all even Bingley didn't realise (remember Jane's comment that they had dismissed it as impossible?).
: Hmm - that's really got me puzzled!
: Saman
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This is a very good observation. I don't think he probably would have said much necessarily -- the scene at the Lambton Inn where Georgiana says she has heard of Elizabeth and her playing is solely in the script. However, Georgiana has to be aware that her brother might marry fairly soon and thus his introducing him to a young lady, especially on the same day as Georgiana arrived to Pemberley!, might indicate a serious interest for Darcy. If I were Georgiana, I would probably try to be interested in any female that my brother introduced to me and check her out--she might become her brother's wife and have charge of Georgiana. Anyway, maybe Georgiana did not relish the way Miss Bingley hung on her brother either!
Rebecca
Posted by Anne on October 28, 1996 at 19:08:12:
: : : : : : I've been trying to think of something intellegent to say about this subject, but words fail.
: : : : : : Cheryl
: : : : : ___________________
I have truly worn my tape thin from watching this over and over.
: : : : : ___________________
: : P.S. someone mention the look on his face when they are leaving Pemberly: definitly a Look of Longing.
: ___________________
:
: YES, the "look" on Darcy's face when Lizzy is leaving Pemberley. Actually, on both occasions -- when Lizzy leaves after the unexpected meeting, and when she leaves after dining at Pemberley. As she leaves the first time, when she turns around to look at Darcy and he watches her as her coach leaves....and as she leaves after dinner, Bingley escorts Georgiana back inside the house, but Darcy lingers behind to watch Lizzy leave.... oh, definitely the most gentle looks of longing anyone could ever hope for.
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:
The sad result of all of this is that - between the way JA and Davies wrote Darcy, and the way CF plays him - expectations of mortal men are so high. It is very hard to find a man in everyday life to measure up to this standard. But some of us keep trying.
Anne
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Posted by Rebecca on October 28, 1996 at 19:12:17:
: And it does seem that it would not have taken up that much more time at least to have included the beginning of this line when Lizzie tells Jane, "Till this moment I never knew myself."
: While I hate to speak any ill of Davies, because on the whole his script is most excellent, I do feel that he made a serious error by showing us none of Lizzie's transition of thought. He leaves her still in the "outraged" stage, and then suddenly jumps to "Till this moment I never knew myself" line, with no hint of the transition so exquisitely described by JA.
: Joan, too
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Although it has been slightly discussed before here, I agree with you. The change in Elizabeth while still reading the letter on that day is not well brought out in the script. It is really not till later that we know her opinions have changed. And in the book it is sooooo well done.
REbecca
Posted by Karen on October 28, 1996 at 19:29:47:
: In reply to Tommye's question; I have lost count of the number of times I have watched.Of course, I have my favorite parts that I watch over and over again. I'm afraid I will wear my tape out.
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Like everyone else, I have my favorite scenes which I have seen time and time again. For those of you who haven't seen P&P0 and P&P1 I think P&P2 will bias you terribly. I really couln't stand how both P&P0 and P&P1 had Elizabeth and Charlotte maintain their "closeness" in spite of what JA states about their relationship. The storyline in P&P0 doesn't really follow the book and the Darcy of P&P1 is too stiff to like.
Karen
Posted by Anne on October 28, 1996 at 19:38:52:
When Lizzy is reading Darcy's letter and he mentions the total
want of propriety by her family - occassionally even by your
father - the scene that is shown is where Mr. B tells Mary
that she has delighted them quite enough (with her playing). I
don't feel that this is a want of propriety. I feel that this is
a very sensitive way of getting Mary to stop without actually
telling her that she's not very good and embarrassing them.
I feel the want of propriety on Mr. B's part is in allowing his
daughters and wife to behave the way they do.
Just a thought.
Anne
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Posted by Terese on October 28, 1996 at 19:45:47:
: : : : : : : I've been trying to think of something intellegent to say about this subject, but words fail.
: : : : : : : Cheryl
: : : : : : ___________________
: I have truly worn my tape thin from watching this over and over.
: : : : : : ___________________
: : : P.S. someone mention the look on his face when they are leaving Pemberly: definitly a Look of Longing.
: : ___________________
: :
: : YES, the "look" on Darcy's face when Lizzy is leaving Pemberley. Actually, on both occasions -- when Lizzy leaves after the unexpected meeting, and when she leaves after dining at Pemberley. As she leaves the first time, when she turns around to look at Darcy and he watches her as her coach leaves....and as she leaves after dinner, Bingley escorts Georgiana back inside the house, but Darcy lingers behind to watch Lizzy leave.... oh, definitely the most gentle looks of longing anyone could ever hope for.
:
: ___________________
:
: :
: The sad result of all of this is that - between the way JA and Davies wrote Darcy, and the way CF plays him - expectations of mortal men are so high. It is very hard to find a man in everyday life to measure up to this standard. But some of us keep trying.
: Anne
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Then I must count myself as one of the lucky ones. My husband not only puts up with this little obsession of mine, he actually understands it! I am a avid lurker(?) of this bb and a very seldom poster to it, but I have been here almost from the start, and find that I cannot go many days without checking in. Thanks to all of you for giving me such a great place to hang out! And let me assure you all that great Darcy-like men do exist. I married one almost six years ago.
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Posted by Karen on October 28, 1996 at 19:54:56:
: I've been trying to think of something intellegent to say about this subject, but words fail. I read and watch these scenes over and over and never tire of them. Wonderful writing and excellent film-making.
: Cheryl
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The descriptions by Candace and Brigid are simply spectacular. I have watched those scenes countless times and I just can't get enough of them. The looks Darcy gives her (the shock of meeting, the frantic search for her after he changes into dry clothes, the smiles between them both, his glow at Pemberley). If I could have a decent respectable man (like Darcy) look at me like that once I would be happy for a very long time. Though Davies does not follow JA exactly these scenes are extraordinary!! I'll stop gushing.
Karen
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Posted by IF on October 28, 1996 at 20:11:20:
:P.S someone mention the look on his face when they are leaving Pemberly :definitly a Look of Longing. Oh,yes definitly a look of longing.He's waiting there to see if she will look at him or show any sign that may give him hope.He does not want to miss a moment of her. :IF
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Posted by IF on October 28, 1996 at 20:11:34:
:P.S someone mention the look on his face when they are leaving Pemberly :definitly a Look of Longing. Oh,yes definitly a look of longing.He's waiting there to see if she will look at him or show any sign that may give him hope.He does not want to miss a moment of her. :IF
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Posted by kathleen on October 28, 1996 at 20:21:13:
:
: :P.S someone mention the look on his face when they are leaving Pemberly :definitly a Look of Longing. Oh,yes definitly a look of longing.He's waiting there to see if she will look at him or show any sign that may give him hope.He does not want to miss a moment of her. :IF
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Ahh, yes. This is one touch that is so much better than the book (which is very difficult for me to say -- the book is very nearly perfect!).
Jane Austen has Lizzie look back in time to see Darcy walking back toward the house -- to watch him look longingly after her is ever so much better.
Fondly,
kathleen
Posted by Sylvia on October 28, 1996 at 21:03:59:
: : Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been searching for a page like this for a while. I just started college this year and I very foolishly left all of my Jane Austen books at home since I thought, "I've already read them plenty of times". I was very wrong and I will definately be bringing them back with me after Thanksgiving break. And I thought that I was the only one who couldn't get enough of that wonderful movie! Are there any other books that are similar to JA's that are a real good read? I just finished A Long Fatal Love Chase so I am looking for another adventure! Thanks, Sarah
:
: ___________________
: Have any of you read the creative writings on the Friend of firth page, concerning P&P?
: I have been enjoying them over the last two weeks. They fill in some of the gaps wonderfully. I loved the the conversation between Darcy and his Aunt after she left Lizzie at Longborn. The wedding night from both Darcy and Lizzie's point of view were very well done.
: Anyone else?
: Mich
__How about the Letter from Darcy's Butler describing how Darcy frantic changing of clothes after his accidental meeting with Lizzy at Pemberly. That is very delightful indeed!
Sylvia
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Posted by Cheryl on October 28, 1996 at 21:14:41:
: yes some of them went over the top but over all I thought they fit in with Austins characters.
: Which one did you like the best?
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Ooh, toughie. I like the one where Darcy talks to Mr. Bennet and I'm a sucker for the "Georgianna Overlistens" one. VERY mushy and I would never admit that to anyone else, but with you, dear friends, I must be completely honest. I am most grieviously to be pitied.
Cheryl
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Posted by Tommye on October 28, 1996 at 21:30:19:
: Get a life guys, I have seen it at least 500x's. So does that make me the biggest couch potato. I think so. I have seen P&P1 3x, P&P0 2x, and P&P3 500x.
___________________
Now, now Alicia. Let's not exaggerate. I'm sure I've watched P&P at least 20 times through, from Rosings Park through the end an additional 10. I've watched P&P1 about 5 times through...frankly there are a few things better in P&P 1, mostly in the script.
It IS definitely part of my life.
Tommye
Posted by Cheryl on October 28, 1996 at 21:38:53:
I know that we haven't actually *heard* from Amy, but there is evidence that she has returned to safely to us from the wilds of Michigan, to wit: the BB has been pared down with old postings removed. Now it only takes 45 seconds for me to reload the BB instead of the 1:30 I have been experiencing.
Amy, did you have a nice Christmas, was Santa good to you? We missed you and were mostly well-behaved in your absence!
Cheryl
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Posted by Joan, too on October 28, 1996 at 21:43:14:
: : Tommye:
: : True, my need for closure by MY definition, justice, demanded some exchanging of words, at a minimum, between Lizzy and Wickham. She was so utterly .adept later at handling Lady Catherine that I just knew Lizzy could undo Wickham with her words.
As indeed she did - quite masterfully, and most civilly - and then delivered the coup de grace by making him kiss her hand. Game, set, match!
: : Concerning your earlier remark about assurances that justice would be done in the afterlife--have I missed something here? Other than the scene in which they are coming out of a church, I do not recall conversation regarding faith, etc. Do you really think that is what motivated their silence on the subject(s)?
I am excessively sorry to have to admit that I do not have any recollecton at all of having mentioned the afterlife; if I did, I have total amnesia on the subject. (But you know what they say comes along with increasing years - the eyes are the second thing to go -- and I forget what the first thing is...)
Joan, too
Posted by Tommye on October 28, 1996 at 22:05:44:
: : True, my need for closure by MY definition, justice, demanded some exchanging of words, at a minimum, between Lizzy and Wickham. She was so utterly .adept later at handling Lady Catherine that I just knew Lizzy could undo Wickham with her words.
: : :Tommye
:
: ___________________
: But she does in her own way. I like the conversation they have after Lizzy has read the letter from her aunt. She hints at the events surrounding Darcy, Georgianna and the living enough to show that she knows the truth. Wickham almost physically stumbles as he tries to back pedal the living thing and Lizzy stops him with "Come, Mr. Wickham, we are brother and sister after all, let us not quarrel." I have always clearly heard the unspoken words "As long as *you* know that *I* know" hanging in the air. Meaning, "don't pull anymore of this 'I was cheated out of my inhieritance' crap with *me*!" (But of course Lizzy is a more genteel person than I and worded it much more delicately.)
: Cheryl
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Ever so slightly more delicately.
:Tommye
Posted by Joan, too on October 28, 1996 at 22:08:36:
: Paula:
: Lizzy made the right choice because there was nothing to be gained by confronting the wicked Wickham. She let him know (nicely of course) that she knew he was a lying jerk.
Actually, not really nicely - it just appeared nice, on the surface. "Won't you walk into my parlor said the spider to the fly?" And once in there, she ate him alive - but most politely!
Telling him off wouldn't change him because he was really a bad person and didn't care. By contrast, telling Darcy off had a completely different result--Darcy reacted well and changed as a result because he was basically a good person.
But it must be remembered that even then, she did not tell him off right away. She first tried a most restriained refusal, followed by saying nothing at all, and only when Darcy would not take "no" for an answer did she tear into him. In his own way, he asked for it.
But on the other hand, if he had just wished her health and happiness and departed, there would be no plot for the rest of the book. ;-)
Joan, too
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Posted by Tommye on October 28, 1996 at 22:16:01:
: : I've been trying to think of something intellegent to say about this subject, but words fail. I read and watch these scenes over and over and never tire of them. Wonderful writing and excellent film-making.
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
:
: Oh, Cheryl -- Is not this the most beautifully done scene in the entire show? I have truly worn my tape thin from watching this over and over.
: The scenery is magnificent -- The music beautifully builds as they each spot each other -- too close to turn and run. They are each so uncomfortable. Him damp and not properly attired (ahh, but he does look oh so fine!) yet trying so hard to be so civil and "gentlemanly". Her so embarassed (I just love the way she turns her head and takes in air before she speaks). He then takes his leave. She cannot think of anything other than getting the Hell out of there. But here is when I really sigh -- Darcy emerges from the house in the most gorgeous suit -- Hair still damp (OH MY) acting so at ease and this throws Lizzie for a loop. Now they walk, the ribbons from Lizzie and Mrs. Gardner hats gently blowing in the breeze. The way he mentions the Bingleys almost with an appology, the way he looks at her, his gentle "Thank you" for her agreeing to meet his sister (I'm really breathing heavy now). Then I (oops I mean the scene) gets very tranquil as they walk through the trees, ribbons still gently blowing (It looks so much like an impressionist painting). Till at last he helps her into the carrage waiting and watching til she is out of his sight.
: I cannot get enough of this scene. In fact I will leave you now to watch it again.
: -Candace
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Well, Candace! After that emotive description, I cannot but with haste return to my still-warm set to relive once again my dearest, loveliest scene.
:Tommye
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