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Posted by Paula on October 27, 1996 at 17:43:51:
:
: : By the way did you see the photo of the real Jennifer Ehle? Can you believe -- with straight blonde hair? What a shock.
:
: ___________________
:
: I had heard her described as a young Meryl Streep -- and in the picture she really does.
: As mentioned before -- the book is fantastic, but even if it were not, the picture on page 98 would be worth the cost.
: Anne
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Just checked the picture on Page 98 -- Somehow I suspected which one it was the moment you mentioned it! What a wonderful shot (Firth semismiling).
I was very impressed with Colin Firth's interview. It really helped me understand the character, because Austen doesn't tell us what Darcy is thinking since things are seen from Elizabeth's point of view. I think Firth really "got" what was going on in Darcy's mind, and that showed in his performance.
In the "Making of" book it was also fun to see what the characters look like in real life. I'm still in shock over Jennifer Ehle.....
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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 17:44:37:
: This brings to mind, last weekend, when my friend, Barbara, came over for the third Saturday in a row to watch all six hours with me again.
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Candace, I am so jealous! You have someone right there with whom to share all this. How fortunate you are. All of you on this BB are my only companions on this journey through Lizzy and Darcy Land, and I am grateful for you.
Cheryl
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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 17:47:49:
: : I didn't realize that Hinds was in "Circle"- what was his role?
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
: Hinds was the university lecturer--the one that talked about
: sex in primitive cultures.
: Ann
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Oh! I can't picture him right now- it's been a while since I saw the movie, but I do recall thinking at the time that I didn't have any professors who looked like that! Now I've got to go rent the movie again.
Cheryl
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Posted by Joan, too on October 27, 1996 at 17:48:18:
: Ann:
: First a small nit-pick: Every time I hear Lizzy say "Mrs. Gardiner is my aunt Mr. Darcy" I always wish the line was "Mr. Gardiner is my uncle Mr. Darcy". I wonder if that was intentional, or if Davies missed the fact that Mrs. Gardiner is only related by marriage.
I think this is just another one of those odd language usages like the one that was discussed earlier about Jane saying "my mother" while talking to Lizzie instead of "our mother".
: Then there is the line: "But your good opinion is rarely bestowed; and therefore, more worth the earning." While I absolutely love the line, I can't help but feel that it is a very presumptuous one on Davies' part. There is so much loaded meaning in it--Darcy is practically coming right out and telling Elizabeth that he wants another chance. To make up a line with so much meaning to it is a very bold thing to do.
This is probably partly due to the need to telescope a portion of the book that actually took place over several days into just 2 days in the film. And it does fit in well with the way CF was interpreting Darcy as explained in "The Making", in which he says that having had this unexpected meeting "he needs to prove a great deal to her in a short space of time. He needs to show her in about three minutes flat that he is prepared to be apologetic and tender and amenable and unsnobbish."
Joan, too
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Posted by hat on October 27, 1996 at 17:55:47:
:
: : By the way did you see the photo of the real Jennifer Ehle? Can you believe -- with straight blonde hair? What a shock.
:
I saw Jennifer Ehle in a mini-series called 'The Camomile Lawn' set in the late 1930s and wartime. In that she is blonde. I think she is absolutely stunning in looks (either way), and in ability.
Hilary
As mentioned before -- the book is fantastic, but even if it were not, the picture on page 98 would be worth the cost.
: Anne
Agreed. But I want to know why they left the other really good ones out.
Hilary
Posted by Joan, too on October 27, 1996 at 17:57:41:
: In the "Making of" book it was also fun to see what the characters look like in real life. I'm still in shock over Jennifer Ehle.....
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In her "acceptance speech" when she received the BAFTA award for P&P she is reported to have said that half of the award should go to her wigs. ;-)
Joan, too
Posted by Anne on October 27, 1996 at 18:00:36:
: : Then there is the line: "But your good opinion is rarely bestowed; and therefore, more worth the earning." While I absolutely love the line, I can't help but feel that it is a very presumptuous one on Davies' part. There is so much loaded meaning in it--Darcy is practically coming right out and telling Elizabeth that he wants another chance. To make up a line with so much meaning to it is a very bold thing to do.
: This is probably partly due to the need to telescope a portion of the book that actually took place over several days into just 2 days in the film. And it does fit in well with the way CF was interpreting Darcy as explained in "The Making", in which he says that having had this unexpected meeting "he needs to prove a great deal to her in a short space of time. He needs to show her in about three minutes flat that he is prepared to be apologetic and tender and amenable and unsnobbish."
: Joan, too
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Yes, I've been reading the Pemberley scenes in the book and though I love how Davies handled it in the video, the various meetings and the thought processes during this time in the book are exciting. The representation of how Darcy has changed, Lizzy's recognition of it and her total about-face are delicious.
Anne
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Posted by Anne on October 27, 1996 at 18:06:33:
: : I like the way that the various parts of the letter cause Lizzy to reflect more and come to the realization that she has been wrong. She realizes that the original slight colored her opinion of Darcy.
: : Anne
:
: ___________________
: Yes, I love the line "Pleased with the preference of one, and offended by the neglect of the other, on the beginning of our acquaintance, I have courted prepossession and ignorance, and driven reason away, where either were concerned. Till this moment I never knew myself."
: What an amazingly honest insight into ones self.
: Cheryl
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And so eloquently phrased -- today it would be on the order of I realized what a fool/chump/idiot I'd been.
Anne
Posted by Arnessa on October 27, 1996 at 18:08:28:
:
: ___________________
: I suspect that it would have beeen considered most ungenteel to allow one's behavior to sink down to the level of a slimeball such as Wickham. One probably "bested" him by demonstrating how well and truly they, as gentlefolk, were able to maintain their civility in the face of such obvious temptation to do otherwise.
: Joan, too
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I also think that devout faith had something to do with it. I mean, if you really believe that everyone will get his just deserts in the afterlife, no use spending time and energy here on Earth thinking of ways to punish evildoers.
-Arnessa
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Posted by Anne on October 27, 1996 at 18:09:35:
:
: This brings to mind, last weekend, when my friend, Barbara, came over for the third Saturday in a row to watch all six hours with me again. My husband (who I must say in his defense is generally a rather sensitive sort for someone of the male species) came into the family room with his hands on his hips and asked, "What is the difference between this and men sitting around all day watching sports!" We then replied "Alcohol!!" So we promply went into the kitchen and fixed ourselves a couple of cocktails, paying him no other attention.
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LOL
Anne
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Posted by Joan, too on October 27, 1996 at 18:14:46:
: Yes, I love the line "Pleased with the preference of one, and offended by the neglect of the other, on the beginning of our acquaintance, I have courted prepossession and ignorance, and driven reason away, where either were concerned. Till this moment I never knew myself."
: What an amazingly honest insight into ones self.
: Cheryl
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And it does seem that it would not have taken up that much more time at least to have included the beginning of this line when Lizzie tells Jane, "Till this moment I never knew myself."
While I hate to speak any ill of Davies, because on the whole his script is most excellent, I do feel that he made a serious error by showing us none of Lizzie's transition of thought. He leaves her still in the "outraged" stage, and then suddenly jumps to "Till this moment I never knew myself" line, with no hint of the transition so exquisitely described by JA.
Joan, too
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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 18:15:18:
: I also think that devout faith had something to do with it. I mean, if you really believe that everyone will get his just deserts in the afterlife, no use spending time and energy here on Earth thinking of ways to punish evildoers.
: -Arnessa
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Agreed, Arnessa, very good point. But there are few of us who can resist playing God...
Cheryl
Posted by hat on October 27, 1996 at 18:15:35:
: : : Then when she is at Nfield when she walks into the billard room she snubs him again,then he tries to be really nice to her after that and inquires about Jane one more thing he compares her with Georgiana that his way of being nice and again about reading. Lizzie won't forgive for his remark that makes him all the more intrigued.That is what leds me to believe that he knows she heard him. He at that moment wishes he never said what he said, because now he is becoming attracted to her livliness of mind. I was not just the way she looked.
: : : This is what I feel the movie is trying to convey. The book is another story.
: : : Thanks Donna
: :
: : ___________________
: : At the end of this scene Darcy is staring at Lizzy. I can't
: : quite get a handle on what is going through his head. Any
: : opinions?
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
:
: I believe that he is just in AWE. Who is this woman?...and Does she not seem to be her own woman...more concerned with her own opinions than his? This has never happened to him before. He is definately awe struck.
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Yes, Someone actually challenging his pronouncement. It's rather like when Lady C. stares at Lizzie when she has her own opinion about her sisters coming out. But don't you think there is an element in what Darcy says (about ladies needing to read books to improve their minds) that shows he is trying to rescue her from the snubs of the Bingley sisters. After all, she is the one reading, and he knows that Caroline's interest in books only a superfical ploy to make him interested in her.
Hilary
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Posted by hat on October 27, 1996 at 18:25:17:
: : :
: : : Darcy is probably feeling oppressed by the situation - people he doesn't know, many of them coarse and obnoxious (i.e. Hurricane Bennet Family), and his own pride, probably brought on by shyness. He is most likely overwhelmed, and so lashes out rather than letting himself get swept away by it all. ..... I think he wanted to express disinterest in the entire situation, and his remark about Lizzy was the most direct way for him to do it (if he admitted, in any way, an interest in her, he would be admitting that he actually wanted to be there).
: : : I hope that made sense,
: : : K
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Yes it makes sense because he doesn't want to be there. In the Making of P&P book Colin Firth has said that ...
: : I love this book. Donna
:
: ___________________
: I also think it is an important fact that he does not want to be there...
: He is irritated and just want to be left alone
: and hope the ball will end soon. That is maybe why he is rude (the last is my own interpretation I once did almost the same at a party when I was 14 and did not want to dance)
: I do not think Darcy knew that Lizzy heard him
: people often thinks that people do not hear them
: in a crowd of people but often they do.
: Anna-Karin
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I agree with you. Darcy was having a bad-hair day.
Hilary
Posted by Paula on October 27, 1996 at 18:30:53:
I wanted to know what else the lovers of this scene
: really enjoy.
: Thanks
: Karen
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To me it's just that Darcy finally explodes -- he is so utterly restrained during the first half of the book and struggling with himself in his sexual attraction/repulsion dilemma. After being so silent and seemingly detached, he reveals that underneath he's really quite emotional (and very passionate!)
Lizzy in turn also explodes -- she finally tells Darcy exactly what she thinks of him.
This is key to the plot because both characters change as a result: Lizzy sees her prejudice and Darcy sees his pride. Great scene!!! What a little communication between people can accomplish...
Posted by Paula on October 27, 1996 at 18:41:19:
: I was watching PP2 on video (again) and
: thought that Colin Firth has a look
: and sound of Richard Burton about him.
: They both have a compelling gaze and
: 'presence', and a wonderfully rich
: sounding voice.
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I totally agree with you about the voice. I also thought Firth sounded just like Burton. (Burton was Welsh--is Firth?)
But Firth is much better looking!!
Posted by Donna on October 27, 1996 at 22:08:39:
: : I like how JA shows how Lizzie feels when Darcy comes back to Longbourne and he doesn't
: : approach her fast enough. "If he no longer cares for me,why be silent?Teasing,teasing man!
: : She is hooked.
: : ciao Donna
:
: ___________________
:
: I wondered if it was because he'd done all the running in the past and it was up to her now to give him a bit of encouragement.
: Though after Lady Catherine got in on the act he was fairly sure that Lizzie must have liked him a little!
: Cheers
: Rose
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Yes, it was and she still thought that he should be just has attentive as before, but now he made her wait. Teasing teasing man. Threir rolls have reversed a little.
ciao Donna
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Posted by Janet on October 27, 1996 at 22:13:48:
: : I've been trying to think of something intellegent to say about this subject, but words fail. I read and watch these scenes over and over and never tire of them. Wonderful writing and excellent film-making.
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
:
: Oh, Cheryl -- Is not this the most beautifully done scene in the entire show? I have truly worn my tape thin from watching this over and over.
: The scenery is magnificent -- The music beautifully builds as they each spot each other -- too close to turn and run. They are each so uncomfortable. Him damp and not properly attired (ahh, but he does look oh so fine!) yet trying so hard to be so civil and "gentlemanly". Her so embarassed (I just love the way she turns her head and takes in air before she speaks). He then takes his leave. She cannot think of anything other than getting the Hell out of there. But here is when I really sigh -- Darcy emerges from the house in the most gorgeous suit -- Hair still damp (OH MY) acting so at ease and this throws Lizzie for a loop. Now they walk, the ribbons from Lizzie and Mrs. Gardner hats gently blowing in the breeze. The way he mentions the Bingleys almost with an appology, the way he looks at her, his gentle "Thank you" for her agreeing to meet his sister (I'm really breathing heavy now). Then I (oops I mean the scene) gets very tranquil as they walk through the trees, ribbons still gently blowing (It looks so much like an impressionist painting). Till at last he helps her into the carrage waiting and watching til she is out of his sight.
: I cannot get enough of this scene. In fact I will leave you now to watch it again.
: -Candace
_________
Such a description - tranquility at last. How they model and anticipate each others' mood and reactions, and even adopt the other's way of walking (almost gliding along) - while holding their arms behind their backs (still holding something apart?). Yet they are in synch after giving in to it. What a relief!
__________
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Posted by Donna on October 27, 1996 at 22:20:03:
: : : I like how JA shows how Lizzie feels when Darcy comes back to Longbourne and he doesn't
: : : approach her fast enough. "If he no longer cares for me,why be silent?Teasing,teasing man!
: : : She is hooked.
: : : ciao Donna
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : I wondered if it was because he'd done all the running in the past and it was up to her now to give him a bit of encouragement.
: : Though after Lady Catherine got in on the act he was fairly sure that Lizzie must have liked him a little!
: : Cheers
: : Rose
:
: ___________________
:
: Yes, it was and she still thought that he should be just has attentive as before, but now he made her wait. Teasing teasing man. Threir rolls have reversed a little.
: ciao Donna
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Now I usually check my spelling. I can spell roles.
Thanks Donna
Posted by Arnessa on October 27, 1996 at 22:32:41:
: Seemed to be a good movie with good performances. I am glad. I really wasn't in to seeing Firth in a raunchy film.
: It does however for me show the wonders of makeup. Just as for many a woman, the makeup did make a big difference for Firth in P&P2. With darker hair, eyebrows and such he goes from pleasant to very dashing!
: Anyone else have comments about Hostages?
: -Ramona (visiting)
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Yes, it was a good film. Firth really has range as an actor. I couldn't help wondering, though, if some scenes cut from the production for commercials. It seemed underdeveloped somehow. For one thing, you never got the feeling that John McCarthy and Jill were really longing for one another. I know in these sort of docudramas, one doesn't want to go overboard. Still, I felt that although all the actors gave excellent performances, the drama was somehow lacking. I wanted to see more of the relationship between John and Brian Keenan (Hinds). After John is freed, you don't even get to see them reunited. Ah well! I agree with you about Firth though. In this film, they tone down that megawatt magnetism of his. He was quite appealing however. All he has to do is crack a joke, and that slightly naughty look in his eyes is irresistable. (sigh)
I'm warming up to Hinds too. I must confess I didn't like him too much as Wentworth. My Wentworth was a less-controlled, less hardened, more romantic figure.
-Arnessa.
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