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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 00:34:02:
(With apologies to Jane Austen and The Box Tops)
Ah, THE LETTER. I love this letter, Darcy's passion is running all through it and I admire how the film captured his torment as he wrote it. He is still very angry as he begins and he has some hard things to say, but he needs Lizzy to understand him, and can't bear to have her thinking ill of him.
He does say some very nice and heart-felt things that show that his love is stronger than his anger; he apologizes several times for giving her pain, he admits that it was only his "utmost passion" that caused him to lay aside the very objections he used with Bingley, he commends her and Jane as paragons of the Bennet clan, near the end he says he does not blame her for the Wickham accusation, and, as Lizzy will say later, his "God bless you" was "charity itself."
Cheryl
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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 00:46:13:
Austen gives us two chapters full of Lizzy's assimilation of The Letter. Much more satisfying than the film; there was talk earlier in the week about how we don't get to see Lizzy really mulling it over and how it began to change her opinion of Darcy. But in the book, she is horrified at the Wickham tale, refusing to believe it, and finally knowing that she must; there is anger with Darcy's interference with Jane and Bingley, but eventual acknowledgement that he does have a point about her family. There is much self-recrimination here as well, deep feelings of remorse and anger with herself over her prejudicial belief in Wickham and dislike of Darcy: "Till this moment I never knew myself."
This is one of the reasons we love Lizzy so; she has the ability to look within herself, see where she has been wrong, accept it and change. How many of us can say the same?
Cheryl
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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 00:49:34:
I've been trying to think of something intellegent to say about this subject, but words fail. I read and watch these scenes over and over and never tire of them. Wonderful writing and excellent film-making.
Cheryl
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Posted by Donna on October 27, 1996 at 09:43:33:
: : Grace:
: : Did you notice that the costumers for the Lambton/Pemberley scenes chose to have Lizzy and Georgiana in very similar outfits? Intentional, I'm sure, given that nothing was haphazard about this production.
:
: ___________________
: You bring up something that I have wondered about regarding the decisions as to who wore what in which scene. On the A&E page, Jennifer Ehle is quoted as sa ying:
:
"The wardrobe people were wonderful to me, and gave me a wide-ranging selection of dresses to choose from; just like Elizabeth would have done every day. She'd have had her favorites too. There was one little dress I used to wear a lot; just as today you'd pull on a favorite pair of Levi's or a well-worn T-shirt. "You don't often get the chance to have a choice like that, and I was very grateful.
Yes, she wore the red dress 3 or 4 times then she wore the white with ones with the little dots and lace scarf around her more then once. The biege one when she first met Col. she wore that a few times. In some of the dresses the upper arms looked very tight on JE and across the upper back. I didn't look good.She wore many more then once. The dress I like is when Jane and Lizzie are drying flowers.She also wore the layer looked more then once at Lucas lodge. I'll go with the red one.
ciao, Donna
Posted by Ramona on October 27, 1996 at 09:57:46:
: Just a reminder to Firth fans who can get the History cable channel that "Hostages" will be shown on Saturday night (Oct 26), 8:00pm ET.
: Ann
___________________
I caught Hostages halfway through. It was my first glimpse of Firth in something other than P&P2. He looks a bit different--mostly paler eyebrows. Otherwise he is very much the same just more unassuming. But what really made me jump is just recognizing Ciaran Hinds (Capt. Wentworth in Persuasion) in the last scene of the movie. I finally recognized his eyes and his gestures. Whereas before when he was in scenes with Firth I had not realized it was him. Luckily I had taped some of the movie and could run it back and view it with opened eyes.
Seemed to be a good movie with good performances. I am glad. I really wasn't in to seeing Firth in a raunchy film.
It does however for me show the wonders of makeup. Just as for many a woman, the makeup did make a big difference for Firth in P&P2. With darker hair, eyebrows and such he goes from pleasant to very dashing!
Anyone else have comments about Hostages?
-Ramona (visiting)
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Posted by Donna on October 27, 1996 at 10:17:37:
: : Just a reminder to Firth fans who can get the History cable channel that "Hostages" will be shown on Saturday night (Oct 26), 8:00pm ET.
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: I caught Hostages halfway through. It was my first glimpse of Firth in something other than P&P2. He looks a bit different--mostly paler eyebrows. Otherwise he is very much the same just more unassuming. But what really made me jump is just recognizing Ciaran Hinds (Capt. Wentworth in Persuasion) in the last scene of the movie. I finally recognized his eyes and his gestures. Whereas before when he was in scenes with Firth I had not realized it was him. Luckily I had taped some of the movie and could run it back and view it with opened eyes.
: Seemed to be a good movie with good performances. I am glad. I really wasn't in to seeing Firth in a raunchy film.
: It does however for me show the wonders of makeup. Just as for many a woman, the makeup did make a big difference for Firth in P&P2. With darker hair, eyebrows and such he goes from pleasant to very dashing!
: Anyone else have comments about Hostages?
: -Ramona (visiting)
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I saw it when it first came out ,but didn't remember.I didn't see it from the beginning the first time more likely the middle. He was naked again maybe he's the only guy around who will do that and very thin. He looked heavier sometimes in P&P2. He's as gorgeous as ever had he been dressed. I couldn't resist.
ciao Donna
Posted by Ann on October 27, 1996 at 12:27:12:
: : Just a reminder to Firth fans who can get the History cable channel that "Hostages" will be shown on Saturday night (Oct 26), 8:00pm ET.
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: But what really made me jump is just recognizing Ciaran Hinds (Capt. Wentworth in Persuasion) in the last scene of the movie.
: -Ramona (visiting)
___________________
Firth and Hinds were also both in "Circle of Friends",
though Firth and Hinds didn't share any scenes, and both had
supporting roles.
Ann
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Posted by Anne on October 27, 1996 at 13:48:05:
: (With apologies to Jane Austen and The Box Tops)
: Ah, THE LETTER. I love this letter, Darcy's passion is running all through it and I admire how the film captured his torment as he wrote it. He is still very angry as he begins and he has some hard things to say, but he needs Lizzy to understand him, and can't bear to have her thinking ill of him.
: He does say some very nice and heart-felt things that show that his love is stronger than his anger; he apologizes several times for giving her pain, he admits that it was only his "utmost passion" that caused him to lay aside the very objections he used with Bingley, he commends her and Jane as paragons of the Bennet clan, near the end he says he does not blame her for the Wickham accusation, and, as Lizzy will say later, his "God bless you" was "charity itself."
: Cheryl
___________________
Yes, I was just re-reading the letter part of the book. I too like the way he praises Elizabeth and her sister while pointing out the objections to her family. The fact that he explains that he doesn't wish to cause her undue pain but must acquit himself. You can feel the torment in him guiding his actions. The video does an excellent job of showing the torment without extending the scene to include the entire letter as JA wrote it. Though we would have gladly watched the entire scene (over and over and over), something had to be cut to fit the 6 hours.
I like the way that the various parts of the letter cause Lizzy to reflect more and come to the realization that she has been wrong. She realizes that the original slight colored her opinion of Darcy.
Anne
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Posted by Grace on October 27, 1996 at 15:26:56:
: of that wonderful movie! Are there any other books that are similar to JA's that are a real good read? I just finished A Long Fatal Love Chase so I am looking for another adventure! Thanks, Sarah
:
: ___________________
: Georgett Heyer is pretty good for that time period, & is very funny- she has some comedies ans some adventures, and she wrote a LOT- so it will occupy a considerable time!
: Marsha (a first-year Cornell student)
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: Start with Heyer's Arabella. The hero, Mr. Beaumaris is definitely a Darcy wannabee.
Don't miss The Scarlet Pimpernel for adventure and restrained passion. (I think we should begin a campaign to get this remade with Colin Firth in the lead.... and no Jane Seymour,PLEASE).
Presumption and The Third Sister (Barrett)are okay in the sequel department, harmless enough and entertaining.
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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 15:30:09:
: Firth and Hinds were also both in "Circle of Friends",
: though Firth and Hinds didn't share any scenes, and both had
: supporting roles.
: Ann
___________________
I didn't realize that Hinds was in "Circle"- what was his role?
It's been very windy here in the west which means I lost my cable and didn't get to see "Hostages" :-(
Cheryl
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Posted by Candace on October 27, 1996 at 15:38:26:
: I've been trying to think of something intellegent to say about this subject, but words fail. I read and watch these scenes over and over and never tire of them. Wonderful writing and excellent film-making.
: Cheryl
___________________
Oh, Cheryl -- Is not this the most beautifully done scene in the entire show? I have truly worn my tape thin from watching this over and over.
The scenery is magnificent -- The music beautifully builds as they each spot each other -- too close to turn and run. They are each so uncomfortable. Him damp and not properly attired (ahh, but he does look oh so fine!) yet trying so hard to be so civil and "gentlemanly". Her so embarassed (I just love the way she turns her head and takes in air before she speaks). He then takes his leave. She cannot think of anything other than getting the Hell out of there. But here is when I really sigh -- Darcy emerges from the house in the most gorgeous suit -- Hair still damp (OH MY) acting so at ease and this throws Lizzie for a loop. Now they walk, the ribbons from Lizzie and Mrs. Gardner hats gently blowing in the breeze. The way he mentions the Bingleys almost with an appology, the way he looks at her, his gentle "Thank you" for her agreeing to meet his sister (I'm really breathing heavy now). Then I (oops I mean the scene) gets very tranquil as they walk through the trees, ribbons still gently blowing (It looks so much like an impressionist painting). Till at last he helps her into the carrage waiting and watching til she is out of his sight.
I cannot get enough of this scene. In fact I will leave you now to watch it again.
-Candace
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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 15:38:30:
: I like the way that the various parts of the letter cause Lizzy to reflect more and come to the realization that she has been wrong. She realizes that the original slight colored her opinion of Darcy.
: Anne
___________________
Yes, I love the line "Pleased with the preference of one, and offended by the neglect of the other, on the beginning of our acquaintance, I have courted prepossession and ignorance, and driven reason away, where either were concerned. Till this moment I never knew myself."
What an amazingly honest insight into ones self.
Cheryl
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Posted by Cheryl on October 27, 1996 at 15:43:01:
: : I've been trying to think of something intellegent to say about this subject, but words fail. I read and watch these scenes over and over and never tire of them. Wonderful writing and excellent film-making.
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
:
: Oh, Cheryl -- Is not this the most beautifully done scene in the entire show? I have truly worn my tape thin from watching this over and over.
: The scenery is magnificent -- The music beautifully builds as they each spot each other -- too close to turn and run. They are each so uncomfortable. Him damp and not properly attired (ahh, but he does look oh so fine!) yet trying so hard to be so civil and "gentlemanly". Her so embarassed (I just love the way she turns her head and takes in air before she speaks). He then takes his leave. She cannot think of anything other than getting the Hell out of there. But here is when I really sigh -- Darcy emerges from the house in the most gorgeous suit -- Hair still damp (OH MY) acting so at ease and this throws Lizzie for a loop. Now they walk, the ribbons from Lizzie and Mrs. Gardner hats gently blowing in the breeze. The way he mentions the Bingleys almost with an appology, the way he looks at her, his gentle "Thank you" for her agreeing to meet his sister (I'm really breathing heavy now). Then I (oops I mean the scene) gets very tranquil as they walk through the trees, ribbons still gently blowing (It looks so much like an impressionist painting). Till at last he helps her into the carrage waiting and watching til she is out of his sight.
: I cannot get enough of this scene. In fact I will leave you now to watch it again.
: -Candace
___________________
I knew someone would step forward and wax rhapsodic about these scenes. Thank you Candace, for the lovely words, I,too, may now have to leave and watch. *sigh*
Cheryl
Posted by Grace on October 27, 1996 at 15:51:00:
: : -Arnessa (still at large).
:
: ___________________
: Glad to hear it Arnessa. Don't worry we will all come rescue you if the men in white coats come.
: Ann
___________________
:White coat? NO, NO, NO! The green one. That'll do. (But tell them that I am NOT obcessing!)
Posted by Grace on October 27, 1996 at 15:52:40:
: : -Arnessa (still at large).
:
: ___________________
: Glad to hear it Arnessa. Don't worry we will all come rescue you if the men in white coats come.
: Ann
___________________
:White coat? NO, NO, NO! The green one. That'll do. (But tell them that I am NOT obsessing!)
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Posted by Candace on October 27, 1996 at 16:27:09:
: Laura, you deserve to be treated like a fairy princess! I feel like I know you from reading your postings, that's how I know. As for my "people noticing" story, I was watching the World Series with my husband, and I said, "I don't know why they show us all these close-ups of the coaches. They are very unattractive". My husband said, "You're right. When they have time to show the coach, they should just put up a picture of Colin Firth instead". And I thought I was hiding my addiction pretty well. Sigh. But I do think he has a good idea about the Firth pictures.
: Jane
___________________
This brings to mind, last weekend, when my friend, Barbara, came over for the third Saturday in a row to watch all six hours with me again. My husband (who I must say in his defense is generally a rather sensitive sort for someone of the male species) came into the family room with his hands on his hips and asked, "What is the difference between this and men sitting around all day watching sports!" We then replied "Alcohol!!" So we promply went into the kitchen and fixed ourselves a couple of cocktails, paying him no other attention.
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Posted by Ann on October 27, 1996 at 16:40:28:
: In fact I will leave you now to watch it again.
: -Candace
___________________
When rewatching this scene, take a close look at Firth as he
is disappearing behind the bushes. Sometimes I seem to think
that he is beginning to stop too soon to be out of camera
range, and other times not. What do you think? (It's just
that the last half step sometimes seems like he is slowing
down.)
Ann
Posted by Ann on October 27, 1996 at 16:43:51:
: I didn't realize that Hinds was in "Circle"- what was his role?
: Cheryl
___________________
Hinds was the university lecturer--the one that talked about
sex in primitive cultures.
Ann
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Posted by Ann on October 27, 1996 at 16:55:21:
First a small nit-pick: Every time I hear Lizzy say "Mrs. Gardiner is my aunt Mr. Darcy" I always wish the line was "Mr. Gardiner is my uncle Mr. Darcy". I wonder if that was intentional, or if Davies missed the fact that Mrs. Gardiner is only related by marriage.
Then there is the line: "But your good opinion is rarely bestowed; and therefore, more worth the earning." While I absolutely love the line, I can't help but feel that it is a very presumptuous one on Davies' part. There is so much loaded meaning in it--Darcy is practically coming right out and telling Elizabeth that he wants another chance. To make up a line with so much meaning to it is a very bold thing to do.
Ann
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Posted by hat on October 27, 1996 at 17:33:35:
It seems he was already willing to venture a great deal to get to know her more closely does it not?
: : Ann2
:
: ___________________
:
: : Ann2:
: :I have tried to imagine this too and likewise at Lucas Lodge.How would it have been possible for Darcy to join Lydia and Sanderson and the small Lucases if Lizzy had accepted his polite:I would be very happy if you...-aufforderung zum Tanz? It seems he was already willing to venture a great deal to get to know her more closely does it not?
:
: ___________________
: I think that if Darcy (and Lizzie) had opted to join the dance, the little Lucases would have had to drop out. I believe that particular dance was for sets of 3 couples. Lydia had first asked Jane and Bingley to be the third couple, and when Jane refused, took on the young Lucases.
: And according to what someone posted a few weeks ago about the etiquette of refusing to dance, I don't think that Darcy was risking much by offering to dance. If I remember correctly, it was a point of ettiquette that once a woman had declared her intention not to dance, she had to stick to it for the remainder of the evening no matter who else asked her, and Lizzie had already stated that she did not intend to dance and hoped that her moving in that direction was not being interpreted as begging for a partner. So once she had said that, she would not be able to acept even if the fantasy man of her dreams then walked up to ask her, without committing a glaring breach of etiquette
: Joan, too
___________________
Thats interesting, I didn't know that it worked that way. But it still doesn't help with the case of dancing a reel does it? I would like to think he was 'willing to risk a great deal'
Hilary
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