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Posted by Janet on October 26, 1996 at 14:47:21:
: This thought just occurred to me after reading one of my favourite parts of the book - Pemberley!!
: There is a sentence which I think sums up perfectly the personalities of Biongley, Darcy and Georgiana - "Bingley was ready, Georgiana was eager, and Darcy determined, to be pleased".
: Now that says to me that Georgiana knew something of how highly Darcy regarded Elizabeth, but for the life of me I can't imagine Darcy ever saying so outright to the sister whom he regards more like a daughter, nor can I see Georgiana being perceptive enough to realise how Darcy felt about Lizzy. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Georgiana, but I just can't picture her realising how important it was for Darcy that the two women like each other. After all even Bingley didn't realise (remember Jane's comment that they had dismissed it as impossible?).
: Hmm - that's really got me puzzled!
: Saman
__________
Perhaps Georgiana recognized some differences in her brother after Lizzy's rejection of his proposal and his subsequent resolution to change himself. When Darcy and the Bingley sisters swept Bingley away from Netherfield to London in an attempt to persuade him (and Darcy), respectively, as to their potential mates, Georgiana was set up as an intended match for Bingley. During all the time they spent together as an ensemble, Georgiana may have noticed Darcy's reactions to the Bingley sisters' needling about Lizzy, while he tried "in vain" to "conquer this" and put her out of his mind. Their manipulations and motives are so obvious to us that even Georgiana may have suspected a reason behind all this - his true feelings for Lizzy.
We are not privy to Darcy's discussions of Lizzy to others, but we can ascertain from their references and reactions to her that he speaks well of her to those close to him, including Georgiana and Colonel Fitzwilliam. The Bingley sisters caught on to the attraction immediately, and Lady C. later on. The Gardiners perceived it readily and aided in their resolution, as did Charlotte who presumably predicted their engagement. In fact, even those who dissapproved of the match wound up assisting it inadvertently, including the Bingley sisters and Lady C.
I, too, question how Jane and Bingley considered Lizzy and Darcy's engagement to be so "impossible". Perhaps Jane's denial resulted from Lizzy protesting (too much) that she and Darcy disliked each other, with one step forward and two back (an excellent analysis from Joan Too). Jane and Mr. B failed to see beneath Lizzy's own denial, and the rest of the Bennet family was oblivious to Lizzy and her interests. The separation of family members between Lizzy/Jane/Mr. B versus Mrs. B/Lydia/Kitty/Mary is delineated by the degree of their intelligence and character, and so their level of understanding (also about Lizzy and Darcy, pride and prejudice).
One of the interesting elements of the story is how both Lizzy and Darcy try to hide their own feelings about each other from themselves, each other and all the world. It appears that Darcy may have revealed more about his feelings to others than did Lizzy, but after all, he did propose to her. The suspense lends a greater interest to the telling of the story, especially in the video which does not include all the analyses of the book.
Thank goodness Jane Austen focuses her attention on more complex personalities with intelligence and fine moral character, still with corrections to be resolved. The differences in how other characters (lacking these qualities) perceive their true natures points out these differences all the more. The idea that those who are themselves intelligent and of good moral character will recognize it in others follows that Lizzy and Darcy belong together. Likewise, the Gardiners earn the love and respect of Lizzy and Darcy for their characters and their helpful role in the affair, and Georgiana is part of their close "family party at Pemberley" where they escape the (undeserving) rest.
Thank goodness for this BB and all of you!
_________
Posted by Sarah on October 26, 1996 at 15:00:57:
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been searching for a page like this for a while. I just started college this year and I very foolishly left all of my Jane Austen books at home since I thought, "I've already read them plenty of times". I was very wrong and I will definately be bringing them back with me after Thanksgiving break. And I thought that I was the only one who couldn't get enough of that wonderful movie! Are there any other books that are similar to JA's that are a real good read? I just finished A Long Fatal Love Chase so I am looking for another adventure! Thanks, Sarah
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Posted by Janet on October 26, 1996 at 15:01:14:
: Once she wanders onto this higher path, she is more closely aligned with Jane and a division is clearly established between the more genteel, deserving older sisters and the uncouth, undeserving younger ones.
: : __________
:
: ___________________
: I always thought that the filmakers did a good job in separating the family. In many scenes you get Lizzy and Jane (and Mr. B) together and (Mrs. B) Kitty and Lydia together. Mary seems to be left out by both sides.
: For example, at dinner Jane and Lizzy are on either side of Mr. B, while Lydia, Kitty and Mrs. B at the other end, Mary in the middle.
: When Mr. B tells them he has been to visit Bingley, Jane & Lizzy are beside him, while Lydia, Kitty and Mrs. B get together and Mary is at the table all by herself. There are many others, too. Separate carriages to Netherfield ball (though Mary does get to ride with her sisters and Mrs. B). Mr. Collins perusal of brides, admiring Wickham on horseback, etc.
: No wonder Mary turns to Mr. Collins, as he is the only one in the family she can relate to.
:
: P.S. I think the biggest lie told to Lizzie by Wickham is "I have not the resentful nature that some men have". Yet I find his nature to be resentful indeed.
__________
Yes, family members are aligned or divided by their level of intelligence, moral character, pride and prejudice. They also reap what they sow and get what they deserve on this basis.
_________
Posted by Donna on October 26, 1996 at 16:17:58:
: : : At the end of this scene Darcy is staring at Lizzy. I can't
: : : quite get a handle on what is going through his head. Any
: : : opinions?
: : : Ann
: :
: : ___________________
: : I think that the red billiard ball said it all. ;-)
: : Joan, too
:
: ___________________
:
: I expected him to rip the fabric on the table with the force of the shot.
: Anne
:
: ___________________
___________________
He has a little temper wouldn't you say.
ciao Donna
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Posted by Arnessa on October 26, 1996 at 16:39:17:
I, too, am teased by co-workers. I'm also teased by family and friends alike. It usually starts with an innocent question like "What did you do over the weekend?" And instead of just lying, I feel compelled to say that I watched my tapes again or I was on the bulletin board again or I was rereading the novel again. I'm afraid I may have to start lying or else people will think I've joined a cult. My sister jokes that she will have to read Pride and Prejudice in order to "reach me." Hmmm... wonder when they shove me in a van and take me to the the deprogrammer.
-Arnessa (still at large).
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Posted by Donna on October 26, 1996 at 16:46:04:
: : : : : : : It is unfortunate that the script writers/film editors did not
: : : : : : : include/leave in the following:
: : : : : : :
: : : : : : : "A man who had felt less might."
: : : : : : : Close your eyes and imagine Colin Firth's Darcy saying this Is it not enough to make one sweat?
: : : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : Though I must admit that line to be a definite favourite of mine, it would not have made as much sense in P&P2, as they only met once before the second proposal.Whereas in the novel Darcy is a dinner guest, and carries his coffea cup back to her and...sigh.*We* would have loved to watch six more hours but they might not have been true to the artistic concept of the film makers.
: : : : Ann2
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : Yes, it does seem that the filming did need to stop eventually -- but -- I thought that since they had taken us all through so much of the story thatit ended so abruptly.Two more hours would have been enough to exhibit at least one more scene of the shyness between the two before the engagement and then the courtship. One of my favorite parts in the book is when Lizzie is telling Darcy why he loves her. (Candace)
: :
: : ___________________
: : I could not agree more on this subject. I have always felt a bit cheated when the final kiss comes. After all those wonderful additional scenes, we were led to expect more. But maybe the producers could not foresee this audience of devoted Darcy and Lizzy-attraction/repulsion-lovers that were to commit hours and hours to every glance and headmovement. I have said it before but I still think some small caress and one ardent kiss on the hand would have been wastely preferred to the
: : carriage kiss... if you could not get a little of both. This is a delight where a little *does not* go a long way.
: : Ann2
:
: ___________________
:
: I belive that your comment on "hours & hours" is the material point. Television in general (at least American Television) does not believe that we would sit through hours and hours of a mini series done beautifully and artistically...BUT they do subject us to hours and hours of "sick" topic mini series of our fears...ie "I want my baby back" topics. Maybe our little following, if brought to the attention of the "Hollywood Good Old Boys" would show them that women do not want to be reminded of their fears, but want to escape from them and watch something beautiful (visually as well as the dialoge) and done well. After all P&P2 was the highest rated show ever televised on A&E.
: Wow, I'm really sorry that I went off like this. Thanks for listening!
: - Candace
___________________
What is there really to watch on T.V. I really haven't watch T.V. since I found this board. A&E,PBS, and History Channel I don't even watch ER anymore. Oh, I know Regis and Kathy Lee and Rosie, Davis Lettterman and Charlie Rose- excellent show.Plus it depends who is on. I'll catch some of the others in reruns.
ciao, Donna
I think people are tiring of non-stop action. After I saw Indiana Jones, Speed { for the first time} I was exhausted. The action just did't stop.
Posted by Arnessa on October 26, 1996 at 16:48:18:
:
: ___________________
: Arnessa, I agree with all these fine comments. Have they convinced you?
: Hilary
___________________
Yes, I am most definitely persuaded. Now my mind can rest easy in the knowledge that Darcy was always the man I knew he was in my heart.
Thank you all for your help in a cause of such moment... My faith was wavering. I'm so ashamed.
I'd forgotten about Netherfield and how Darcy was so careful not to let himself show he felt more than he was ready to back up with action.
I don't know where I'd be without this board.
-Arnessa
Posted by Grace on October 26, 1996 at 16:57:08:
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : : : I was the same way about the book, couldn't put it down.
: : : : : : Grace
: : : : : : P.S. I share your desire for happy endings - maybe that's another reason I love Austen!
: : : : :
: : : : : ___________________
: : : : : Do you know when the movie will be showing?
: : : : : Well I am SO glad to be back!
: : : : : Marsha
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : :
: : : : Wow I'm impressed reading Gone with the Wind in a week. A smaller book I read recently was 'The Horse Whisperer'.
: : : : Cheers
: : : : Rose
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : Grace
: : Imagine Lizzy exploring his library!
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : : I am disappointed in all of you. I handed you the perfect straight line above and no one picked up the ball and ran with it. Must I do everything myself?:
: : Imagine Lizzy exploring his library! How she admires his volumes! Drawn to the novel, she can't wait to get between the covers!
: : Fondly, Grace
:
: ___________________
:
: Grace -- You are sooo bad!!! I truly love it!!!
: I confess, I was hesitate to show my own colors so soon after the "Daggy" thread. But how on earth could any women ever resist the temptation to expound on the obvious mental picture that you properly put there. Isn't this fun!!
___________________
: Thank you, Anne, Cheryl and Candace! You have restored my faith in this board. Truly, your reputation for wisdom coupled with wicked wit is no fiction.
Grace
P.S. May I also compliment you on your ladylike discretion in not even whispering about the equine element of the thread.....evidence of elegant breeding indeed!
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Posted by Tommye on October 26, 1996 at 17:04:49:
: :
: : : : What is this???
: : : : Jak
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : :
: : : It is a soup make from veal, stock, chicken, almonds and cream.
: : : Anne
: : ___________________
: : : What did I miss? Where was white soup?
: : :Tommye
:
: ___________________
:
: At Netherfield after Mr.s B and the girls have visited Jane
: and Bingley has said he will give a ball. That evening Miss Bingley asks her brother if he is serious about giving the ball and he says as soon as Nicholls has made white soup enough I shall send round my cards.
: This is all in the book, of course and not the video.
: Anne
___________________
Thank you, Anne. Guess I need to read the book all the way through again, rather than just reading and re-reading my favorite parts!
Tommye
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Posted by Grace on October 26, 1996 at 17:07:45:
: : I just finished reading "A Thousand Acres". I took it yesterday
: : from the library and from the moment I opened it, I couldn't lay
: : it down.
:
: ___________________
:
: Adi, A Thousand Apologies. I did nothing to help you with my answer. I should have written that Jessica would play Ginny and Michelle would be Rose. There! I hope I finally have it right. Grace
Posted by Tommye on October 26, 1996 at 17:08:29:
: : What was this scene all about anyway?
: : Darcy says something like, "I will overcome it."
:
: ___________________
:
: There are varying views on this statement. Some feel that the 'it' that he will overcome is his love for Lizzy. Some feel that 'it' is his attitude/pride that Lizzy found so hateful - in other words that he will get over 'it' and become a better person. Since this scene was written for the screen (and not by JA), it is left to the viewer to decide.
: Anne
___________________
I think he said, "I will conquer this..."
I took it to mean his (1) offense taken at Lizzy's rejection of him. Just conquering all of the emotional devastation that he must have been feeling. Also, (2) his now almost-obsession with Lizzy. One can especially be prone to obsessive thoughts when one's passions have not been requited.
Tommye
Posted by Grace on October 26, 1996 at 17:17:01:
: : : Saman:
: : : There is a sentence which I think sums up perfectly the personalities of Bingley, Darcy and Georgiana - "Bingley was ready, Georgiana was eager, and Darcy determined, to be pleased". Now that says to me that Georgiana knew something of how highly Darcy regarded Elizabeth, but for the life of me I can't imagine Darcy ever saying so outright to the sister whom he regards more like a daughter, nor can I see Georgiana being perceptive enough to realise how Darcy felt about Lizzy.
: : Well, it's clear that Darcy has talked quite a bit about Lizzy to some members of his family (the Colonel has certainly heard favorable things about her) and how many "strange" women of no connections do you suppose he has made a point of introducing to Georgiana. I would bet that a 16 year old with half a brain would at least have a suspicion...
: : Joan, too
:
: ___________________
: Enjoyed all of your comments. Isn't it fascinating that, for the first time ever, Darcy would be determined to be pleased?
Did you notice that the costumers for the Lambton/Pemberley scenes chose to have Lizzy and Georgiana in very similar outfits? Intentional, I'm sure, given that nothing was haphazard about this production.
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Posted by Tommye on October 26, 1996 at 17:21:32:
Does it bother anyone else how non-confrontive everyone is in P&P? The situation that immediately comes to mind is when Wickham returns to Longbourne with Lydia, then has a private moment with Lizzy. While she does, in fact, let him know that she is aware of what REALLY happened, she is altogether amiable and even passive towards him. Gross. I mean, the man lied and lied to her, her family, everyone in the town, cast grievous aspersions on Darcy's character, then acted out his disgusting penchant for little girls by absconding with Lydia and taking her virginity away (though she appeared eager to have it taken, he was more than aware of the grave, irretrievable nature of the damage he was doing to her).
Even Mr. B was amiable. I mean, couldn't somebody just confront the slimy deceiver?
Of course, there are quite a few more instances in P&P.
Also, in Sense and Sensibility.
People just made assumptions about others all over the place, and few bothered to check out the facts. Then, when they got the facts, they still didn't confront!
Most frustrating!
Tommye
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Posted by DonnaT on October 26, 1996 at 17:38:58:
: Just a reminder to Firth fans who can get the History cable channel that "Hostages" will be shown on Saturday night (Oct 26), 8:00pm ET.
: Ann
___________________Firth on HBO tonight too. Circle of Friends on one of the HBO Channels at 8.30 , as if that weren't enough , The Three Tenors are on PBS (my other obsession) Decisions, Decisions. DonnaT
Posted by Ann on October 26, 1996 at 17:45:33:
: -Arnessa (still at large).
___________________
Glad to hear it Arnessa. Don't worry we will all come rescue you if the men in white coats come.
Ann
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Posted by Ann on October 26, 1996 at 17:59:44:
I while back was having some trouble with my VCR. During this
time I recorded two hours of random programming off of A&E. Just
now, I was looking through the tape to see what was on it, and
after an old country music concert, I saw the most exciting sight:
It was a screen with the words:
Making of Pride and Prejudice
Needless to say, my heart began to race. Unfortunately it was
only a 6 minute filler-piece that they were using to promote P&P2.
It was mostly scenes from the show, but it also had some shots of
the filming and some tiny snippets from some of the interviews.
The longest snippet was from Bohnam-Carter (he said that they
were told all sorts of stuff about the period, when everybody
had soooo much time on their hands the only thing they had to do
was wonder about who they would marry). Unfortunately the clip
from Firth was the shortest and he didn't say anything memorable.
It left me hungry for so much more!
We have to get A&E to put "Making of" up for sale in their store!
Ann
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Posted by Joan, too on October 26, 1996 at 18:03:18:
: LOL and heartily! Thanks Hilary (or hat?)I needed that. But I have tried to imagine this too and likewise at Lucas Lodge.How would it have been possible for Darcy to join Lydia and Sanderson and the small Lucases if Lizzy had accepted his polite:I would be very happy if you...-aufforderung zum Tanz? It seems he was already willing to venture a great deal to get to know her more closely does it not?
: Ann2
: Ann2
___________________
: Ann2:
:I have tried to imagine this too and likewise at Lucas Lodge.How would it have been possible for Darcy to join Lydia and Sanderson and the small Lucases if Lizzy had accepted his polite:I would be very happy if you...-aufforderung zum Tanz? It seems he was already willing to venture a great deal to get to know her more closely does it not?
___________________
I think that if Darcy (and Lizzie) had opted to join the dance, the little Lucases would have had to drop out. I believe that particular dance was for sets of 3 couples. Lydia had first asked Jane and Bingley to be the third couple, and when Jane refused, took on the young Lucases.
And according to what someone posted a few weeks ago about the etiquette of refusing to dance, I don't think that Darcy was risking much by offering to dance. If I remember correctly, it was a point of ettiquette that once a woman had declared her intention not to dance, she had to stick to it for the remainder of the evening no matter who else asked her, and Lizzie had already stated that she did not intend to dance and hoped that her moving in that direction was not being interpreted as begging for a partner. So once she had said that, she would not be able to acept even if the fantasy man of her dreams then walked up to ask her, without committing a glaring breach of etiquette
Joan, too
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Posted by Saman on October 26, 1996 at 18:39:19:
: She may be more
: perceptive than Bingley too, after all she is a Darcy.
: Ann
___________________
Butwhen Lizzy first met Georgiana she had "expected to find in her as acute and unembarrassed an observer as ever Mr Darcy had been". I take the point made about Col. Fitzwilliam - I had forgotten that he told Lizzy that he had heard so much about her, and it's highly unlikely that Miss Bingley would have missed any opportunity to bring up Darcy's partiality for Elizabeth, especially when Georgiana was around.
Thanks for your comments by the way - this is the first time I've ever started a thread and I was a bit worried that no one would reply!
Saman
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Posted by Anne on October 26, 1996 at 18:44:34:
: : -Arnessa (still at large).
:
: ___________________
: Glad to hear it Arnessa. Don't worry we will all come rescue you if the men in white coats come.
: Ann
___________________
Though it will have to be a covert operation so that we
all don't get captured too.
Anne
Posted by Joan, too on October 26, 1996 at 18:45:07:
: Grace:
: Did you notice that the costumers for the Lambton/Pemberley scenes chose to have Lizzy and Georgiana in very similar outfits? Intentional, I'm sure, given that nothing was haphazard about this production.
___________________
You bring up something that I have wondered about regarding the decisions as to who wore what in which scene. On the A&E page, Jennifer Ehle is quoted as sa ying:
"The wardrobe people were wonderful to me, and gave me a wide-ranging selection of dresses to choose from; just like Elizabeth would have done every day. She'd have had her favorites too. There was one little dress I used to wear a lot; just as today you'd pull on a favorite pair of Levi's or a well-worn T-shirt. "You don't often get the chance to have a choice like that, and I was very grateful.
If the actors did actually have that much choice as to which costumes they wore, I think I know which the "one little dress I used to wear a lot" is - anyone else have an idea on this?
Joan, too
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