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Posted by Karen on October 25, 1996 at 21:04:08:
Hi! I am new to the group and I cannot tell you all how happy I
am to find this board. I thought I was the only one who lost her
mind after seeing P&P2. Now for my question. . . I have read
about those of you who loved the first proposal and I just wanted
clarification. I mean watching Darcy thoroughly exasperated and
agitated before he proposes is great. However, after he declares
his love the scene quickly goes down high because he is sooo
arrogant. I wanted to know what else the lovers of this scene
really enjoy.
Thanks
Karen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 25, 1996 at 21:05:46:
Just a reminder to Firth fans who can get the History cable channel that "Hostages" will be shown on Saturday night (Oct 26), 8:00pm ET.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 25, 1996 at 23:47:45:
: Just a reminder to Firth fans who can get the History cable channel that "Hostages" will be shown on Saturday night (Oct 26), 8:00pm ET.
: Ann
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Thanks Ann won't miss a minute,ciao Donna
Posted by Donna on October 26, 1996 at 00:21:09:
: : I always assumed that he put the same clothes on because he did not have much time. Although I like the idea of him flying in the door, yelling for his man servant to help him dress quickly.
: : Brigid
:
: ___________________
: I also imagine him ripping of his shirt as he runs upstairs,
: leaving a trail of giggling maids behind him.
: As for having enough time, all he has to do is take off what
: is left of his clothes and get his shirt and pants on, then
: tie his tie (maybe). Everything else he could do on the fly--
: we see him only getting his coat on as he comes back out of
: the house. (I do question how he would have had the time or
: the care to get his watch in place though.)
: Ann
___________________
I think it was a long walk for Lizzie and her aunt and uncle from were he met Lizzie. He zooms upthe stairs {he as those long legs}three steps at a time. As he comes back down stairs he meets Mrs. Reynolds she is telling him that she had company and he said "Yes I know it is the woman I want to marry." I think this time he managed his watch quite well, usually it is not in the same place.
ciao, Donna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 26, 1996 at 00:28:10:
: : Then when she is at Nfield when she walks into the billard room she snubs him again,then he tries to be really nice to her after that and inquires about Jane one more thing he compares her with Georgiana that his way of being nice and again about reading. Lizzie won't forgive for his remark that makes him all the more intrigued.That is what leds me to believe that he knows she heard him. He at that moment wishes he never said what he said, because now he is becoming attracted to her livliness of mind. I was not just the way she looked.
: : This is what I feel the movie is trying to convey. The book is another story.
: : Thanks Donna
:
: ___________________
: At the end of this scene Darcy is staring at Lizzy. I can't
: quite get a handle on what is going through his head. Any
: opinions?
: Ann
___________________
I think he is annoyed,because he got the true meaning when Lizzie said "I doubt you knowing six women." She meant you don't really know any that will ever meet your expectations.
Maybe.
ciao Donna
Posted by Donna on October 26, 1996 at 00:47:04:
: : But It would be a intresting
: : plot to see Caroline chasing a Darcy stricken by grief over
: : Lizzys early death.Maybe she had died in childbed after giving birth to too many children in a few years ( a common fate a that time).
: : Darcy would maybe feel responsible for Lizzys death.
: : maybe caroline would try to snare him then.
: : Anna-karin
:
: ___________________
: Anna-Karin,
: Please refrain from killing Lizzy off!!
: It is simply too horrible to think of.
: Ann
___________________
Yes, I wouldn't want her to die, but see could leave for about a year or two due to having to many childern.
Knowing if she would stay that it would be a risk to her life. She wouldn't want him to feel responsible for her life and the temptation for both would be to devasting to live with. It is a desperate situation. This is the only problem that I could see being a wife and being happily married in the 1800's. I couldn't image giving birth so many time.There was always very large families. Having 10 to 12 childern was
common. It had to be a great fear in JA mind,maybe thats why she wasn't totally unhappy not being married.She lost many sister-in-laws this way.
Donna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Saman on October 26, 1996 at 00:58:33:
: : Thanks Kali & Donna for the excellent analysis of Darcy, and for steering me to the Making of P&P. I just bought it this afternoon. What a treasure.
: : By the way did you see the photo of the real Jennifer Ehle? Can you believe -- with straight blonde hair? What a shock.
: : Personally I think she looks better with dark hair, what do you think?
:
: ___________________
: Yes,I agree with you very nice picture of Susanne {Jane}also they all look so different.
: ciao Donna,
___________________
Definitely - the cast photos were the most surprising things for me. When I turned the page and saw the photos of Ehle and Harker I thought they were production staff photos because I didn't recognise either of them! And you're right - the photo on page 98 is great, although I also love the one on p 105, with Darcy laughing.
Thanks for the info about the book, I can see that it's going to be one of my favourites.
Saman
Posted by Saman on October 26, 1996 at 01:06:00:
This thought just occurred to me after reading one of my favourite parts of the book - Pemberley!!
There is a sentence which I think sums up perfectly the personalities of Biongley, Darcy and Georgiana - "Bingley was ready, Georgiana was eager, and Darcy determined, to be pleased".
Now that says to me that Georgiana knew something of how highly Darcy regarded Elizabeth, but for the life of me I can't imagine Darcy ever saying so outright to the sister whom he regards more like a daughter, nor can I see Georgiana being perceptive enough to realise how Darcy felt about Lizzy. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Georgiana, but I just can't picture her realising how important it was for Darcy that the two women like each other. After all even Bingley didn't realise (remember Jane's comment that they had dismissed it as impossible?).
Hmm - that's really got me puzzled!
Saman
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 26, 1996 at 01:25:45:
: At the end of this scene Darcy is staring at Lizzy. I can't
: quite get a handle on what is going through his head. Any
: opinions?
: Ann
___________________
I think that the red billiard ball said it all. ;-)
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 26, 1996 at 01:38:58:
: Saman:
: There is a sentence which I think sums up perfectly the personalities of Bingley, Darcy and Georgiana - "Bingley was ready, Georgiana was eager, and Darcy determined, to be pleased". Now that says to me that Georgiana knew something of how highly Darcy regarded Elizabeth, but for the life of me I can't imagine Darcy ever saying so outright to the sister whom he regards more like a daughter, nor can I see Georgiana being perceptive enough to realise how Darcy felt about Lizzy.
Well, it's clear that Darcy has talked quite a bit about Lizzy to some members of his family (the Colonel has certainly heard favorable things about her) and how many "strange" women of no connections do you suppose he has made a point of introducing to Georgiana. I would bet that a 16 year old with half a brain would at least have a suspicion...
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 26, 1996 at 04:41:01:
: : : : : It is unfortunate that the script writers/film editors did not
: : : : : include/leave in the following:
: : : : :
: : : : : "A man who had felt less might."
: : : : : Close your eyes and imagine Colin Firth's Darcy saying this Is it not enough to make one sweat?
: : :
: : ___________________
: : Though I must admit that line to be a definite favourite of mine, it would not have made as much sense in P&P2, as they only met once before the second proposal.Whereas in the novel Darcy is a dinner guest, and carries his coffea cup back to her and...sigh.*We* would have loved to watch six more hours but they might not have been true to the artistic concept of the film makers.
: : Ann2
:
: ___________________
:
: Yes, it does seem that the filming did need to stop eventually -- but -- I thought that since they had taken us all through so much of the story thatit ended so abruptly.Two more hours would have been enough to exhibit at least one more scene of the shyness between the two before the engagement and then the courtship. One of my favorite parts in the book is when Lizzie is telling Darcy why he loves her. (Candace)
___________________
I could not agree more on this subject. I have always felt a bit cheated when the final kiss comes. After all those wonderful additional scenes, we were led to expect more. But maybe the producers could not foresee this audience of devoted Darcy and Lizzy-attraction/repulsion-lovers that were to commit hours and hours to every glance and headmovement. I have said it before but I still think some small caress and one ardent kiss on the hand would have been wastely preferred to the
carriage kiss... if you could not get a little of both. This is a delight where a little *does not* go a long way.
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 26, 1996 at 04:42:51:
: : : But It would be a intresting
: : : plot to see Caroline chasing a Darcy stricken by grief over
: : : Lizzys early death.Maybe she had died in childbed after giving birth to too many children in a few years ( a common fate a that time).
: : : Darcy would maybe feel responsible for Lizzys death.
: : : maybe caroline would try to snare him then.
: : : Anna-karin
: :
: : ___________________
: : Anna-Karin,
: : Please refrain from killing Lizzy off!!
: : It is simply too horrible to think of.
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: Yes, I wouldn't want her to die, but see could leave for about a year or two due to having to many childern.
: Knowing if she would stay that it would be a risk to her life. She wouldn't want him to feel responsible for her life and the temptation for both would be to devasting to live with. It is a desperate situation. This is the only problem that I could see being a wife and being happily married in the 1800's. I couldn't image giving birth so many time.There was always very large families. Having 10 to 12 childern was
: common. It had to be a great fear in JA mind,maybe thats why she wasn't totally unhappy not being married.She lost many sister-in-laws this way.
: Donna
___________________
I do notreally want to kill Lizzy of either.
Donna You do not mean that Lizzy shouldleave Darcy for good or? Nothwithstanding it would break their hearts it would be a great social scandal if they really separated. someting they
did not want to cause. But the problems of to
many children in to little time could be real to them. Remember Mrs bennet gave birth to 5 in 7 years but then suddenly stopped even if it is clear from the book that she and mr Bennet tried to have a son for many ears after Lydia was born.
So Lizzy can be expected to give birth to many children in quite a few years.It could be a problem for her and Darcy.But I do not think that separating would be considered really
because of 1. the fact that they loved each other deeply. 2 .the social scandal.
Maybe a solution could be separate bedrooms
(to lessen the temptation not that I think it would do) or that Darcy maybe
sometimes spend some time alone in the house in
London to give Lizzy some rest.
In some social high standing families of that time once the heir and maybe one son more was born the parents lived rather separated but
mostly under the same roof.
The men then often keept mistreses and went to prostitutes
I thing I hope Darcy would not even consider.
Anna-karin
Follow Ups:
Posted by Rick Austin on October 26, 1996 at 04:44:02:
What was this scend all about anyway?
Darcy says something like, "I will overcome it."
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 26, 1996 at 05:04:41:
: : : : I have a feeling the London house on Grosvenor Square is Mr Hurst's only home.: Amy
: : : : : : ___________________
: : and since he married Louisa for her money, he probably won the Grosvener-street house in a card game. The one thing that he seems to do well (excluding drinking and sleeping) is play cards.
: : : Joan, too
: : : : ___________________
: : Are you not a bit unjust to Mr Hurst? Remember his gargantuic(?) appetite at Netherfield, when everyone else is commenting on mud and brigth eyes, he gets his chance to take two gigantic pieces of meat loaf and extinct them before long no doubt.
: : Ann2
: ___________________
: : : Given Mr. Hurst's table manners, it is no wonder
: Mr. Darcy prefers not to sit down across from him at breakfast. (Do you suppose Lizzy's face across the table will have the opposite effect - will it cure him of the habit of stalking around and staring out of windows at breakfast?) Grace
___________________
I think he will definitely remain seated when they are having breakfast alone... that is if his appetite can be satisfied with tea and toast and maybe some occasional meatloaf. If that be not the case he might rise...
And if they are entertaining guests he might also feel the inclination to stare out of a window to be able to hide his face and feelings now and then. He would not consider it proper to look at Lizzy a great deal and keep staring at her
although by that time she would not have to wonder what offended him!
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 26, 1996 at 05:11:54:
: :___________________
: : Are you not a bit unjust to Mr Hurst? Remember his gargantuic(?) appetite at Netherfield, when everyone else is commenting on mud and brigth eyes, he gets his chance to take two gigantic pieces of meat loaf and extinct them before long no doubt.
: : Ann2
:
: ___________________
: I thought that he took two rather large slices of pork pie. I'll have to look at my tape to check though!
: Bernie
:
: ___________________
___________________
My knowledge of the British cuisine are by no means equal to your own, you are British are you not? Is pork pie so dark , I´ll have another look too, Bernie, thanks for giving me a reasonable reason!
Ann2
Posted by Ann2 on October 26, 1996 at 05:26:33:
: : :
: :
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : : Days ago, someone suggested that Darcy would take his comfort with a married lady whose husband was neglectful. For me, this opened up new, and horrifying, perspectives on the importance of Mr. and Mrs. Hurst in the story.
:
: ___________________
: I do not think mr Darcy would ever involve himself with a married lady he was rather fastidious and upright.
: He may have had some experience with some lady before he met Lizzy but hardly with married ones
: or prostitutes.
: Anna-Karin
___________________
Anna-Karin, I have wondered where you were, welcome back...This subject is delicate, given you are right who then?; a servant girl handsomely paid, some widow or unmarried lady who was beneath him? I am glad I am alive today when men and women can meat and love more freely (though I do not decieve myself into thinking that there is not a lot of illuse of women still existing.
Sorry, I digress and too severe problems come to mind).
Ann2
Posted by Ann2 on October 26, 1996 at 05:39:24:
: :
: : ___________________
: : You think? She is so irrational in her wooing tactics that I do believe she possesses an obsession for Darcy near equal to Darcy's for Lizzy.
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
:
:
: JA say that Miss Bingley was so humilated with Mr.Darcy marriage. So she couldn't ever really been in love with him.
: Then this is why she could be around him in Elizabeth company.I don't know how she could have been only out for the money and positon,because in her eyes he is perfect. She tries to persuade Lizzie that his action were justified towards Whickham. When Lizzie wanted to laugh at him she said tease clamness of temper and presence of mind. He is not in her mind a subject to be laughed at.She wasn't on an intimate level with him like she would like everyone to believe, including Lizzie. Poor girl I don't know how she ever got over him.
:
: Thanks Donna
___________________
Yours is a warm heart Donna. Your
concern for Miss Bingley is truly angelic!
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 26, 1996 at 05:54:43:
: : We are used to kids here assuming an American accent whenever they take on a persona - skits, drama, telling commercials etc.
: : Hilary
:
: ___________________
: That's hysterical. When I was in an Ibsen play it took me a
: few days to stop falling into a British accent!
: (Too much "Mystery" and "Masterpiece Theatre"!!)
: Ann
___________________
In an Ibsen play! Are you an actress Ann? This has escaped me, how interesting it would be to reread all your comments on Lizzy´s performance!
Which Ibsen play?
All those accent and language revealings are amazing and interesting to me.
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 26, 1996 at 06:14:06:
: Do you not think that Colin Firth & Elizabeth Ehle would have
: : performed this scene nicely? Your thoughts?
: : Jak
:
: ___________________
: Yes, I would have liked to see this one too. It puzzles me because I think Lizzie mistakes his intentions - I don't think he was being mean to her like she assumes; but I can't see Darcycarrying it through if she had said yes, and kicking up his heels, in such an impromptu manner. I don't remember anyone else dancing at the time. Maybe it was momentary madness!
: Hilary
___________________
LOL and heartily! Thanks Hilary (or hat?)I needed that. But I have tried to imagine this too and likewise at Lucas Lodge.How would it have been possible for Darcy to join Lydia and Sanderson and the small Lucases if Lizzy had accepted his polite:I would be very happy if you...-aufforderung zum Tanz? It seems he was already willing to venture a great deal to get to know her more closely does it not?
Ann2
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 26, 1996 at 06:16:45:
: : : Do you not think that Colin Firth & Elizabeth Ehle would have
: : : performed this scene nicely?
: : : Jak
: : JENNIFER EHLE. Sorry!!
: : Jak
:
: ___________________
: Just goes to show how completely the actors in this film have become merged with the characters they play. Yes, they would, but unfortunately there were many scenes that would have been excellently performed had the film been another 6 hours in length. (And I would willingly have watched all 12 of them. Repeatedly!)
: Joan, too
___________________
And so would Ann!
Ann2
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