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Posted by Joan, too on October 20, 1996 at 18:18:38:
: On another "wired beauty and aggressive ducks" cite, what is Charlotte saying when Elizabeth stays at Hunsford with her headache -- it sounds like she offers to stay home with her friend and put up with "Old Lady Catherine's" anger. I know that such a comment would give her husband a heart attack, so I assume that she is saying something else -- what?
: kathleen
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No, this actually is what she is saying, and her husband does almost have a heart attack, and begins to protest by saying something like, "My dear Charlotte, I beg you to consider..." but is interrupted by Lizzie refusing her offer, saying that it's only a headache and will go away more quickly in quiet and solitude.
Joan, too
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Posted by Lyn on October 20, 1996 at 18:27:28:
This is my first message, and it's such a relief to find I'm not
by myself in playing the tapes over and over! Having said that,
can anyone tell me if there is anything that vexed them greatly
in the show? My bugs were Mrs Forster's hand forever flapping
around her throat and the stopped clock during the first proposal.
Maybe Mrs Forster is a better actress than I gave her credit for
- it was a small part and just by flapping that hand around, she
had my full attention!
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Posted by Ann on October 20, 1996 at 18:38:53:
: Having said that, can anyone tell me if there is anything that vexed them greatly
: in the show? My bugs were Mrs Forster's hand forever flapping
: around her throat and the stopped clock during the first proposal.
I think it must be nearly impossible to work with working
clocks in film. Not only would they need to be reset for
every take, but the editing would he hellish.
Concider that the playing of each shot might not always take
the same amount of time, so if the shot that gets in the
final version ends up being longer than they expected, the
clocks would end up jumping backwards, which would be far
more annoying, and more noticable, than the stopped clock!
Posted by Stefanie on October 20, 1996 at 18:52:05:
: You bring up a good comparison between Bingley/Darcy and Jane/Lizzy. Yes, I think both Bingley and Jane wanted to see Darcy and Lizzy to enjoy life as they did, as they were each others' closest supporters and coinfidantes, as well as their most knowing critics. No one else seemed to understand Darcy or Lizzy as did they. Yet, I wonder how much Bingley and Jane knew of Darcy and Lizzy's true feelings for each other, as even Darcy and Lizzy themselves waffled about their own and the others' feelings and intentions. As do we when we try to analyze them. 'Tis so much more interesting than black and white.
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I don't know about Bingley, but Jane didn't know anything about Lizzy's love for darcy until she told her that they were engaged. Jane didn't even believe her at first.
Stefanie
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Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 20, 1996 at 19:06:22:
: I also like the community here and I liked the whole tone of the board altogether until last night.
: You sensed right. The invasion did wound me. Somebody came here, into my drawing room, so it seems to me, saying: certain of us are saps... and more.
: Well, the way I look at it, she does not get to remain as a guest in my house and she is not welcome to come back and gather with the rest of us. Rather than let her insult my friends, and try to ignore that she is sitting across from me, drinking my tea, I will pop her out just as Samantha the Witch might do.
: Also I returned home last night to find not only this invasion but a hostile frightening phone message from my ex. Think I will go out and see a comedy.
: Amy
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If the world is tough, you just gotta resulve to be tougher, I guess...
Link:
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Posted by hat on October 20, 1996 at 19:07:18:
: :
: : ___________________
: : Rose, do Kiwis use the word 'daggy'?
: : Just curious.
: : Hilary
Kiwis definitely use the word 'daggy'.
: Hope that helps,
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Thanks, I thought you probably did, but you can't always predict what has filtered across the Tasman Sea, in either direction. I am wondering where you and Rose and Lisa are in NZ, but I don't have to know. Our family had a wonderful 2 weeks in NZ two Easters ago. We went from Wellington up through all the 'hot spots', luckily travelling with friends who could show us wonderful places like Ketitahi Springs. Then we had a week travelling on the south island. Didn't get down as far as Queenstown, but loved the west coast and glacier country. Love to visit there again sometime.
Hilary
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Posted by Grace on October 20, 1996 at 19:42:16:
: : Anyone else having trouble envisioning Colin Firth in A Thousand Acres? I know he will pull it off admirably, but
:
: ___________________
I think he may be able to pull off an American accent. He lived in St. Louis for a while as a youth, no?
Oh, and I think he did a passable American accent in that film.
: -Arnessa.
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: Arnessa, I've never seen Playmaker or heard that Colin spent time in St. Louis, so I'm relieved to know that he will be able to pull off the American accent.
We must be careful not to say too much about the plot of the story. I'd hate to ruin it for people who are planning to get it.
By the way, has anyone read MOO (also by Smiley)? Were you disappointed? I certainly was; no comparison to 1000Acres.
: Grace
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Posted by Joan, too Lisa Warrington kindly provided the following list for additional music. Meryton Assembly dances in order: The Touchstone A Trip to Highgate Mutual Love (Jane and Bingley' first dance) Fir on October 20, 1996 at 19:46:33:
: I don't know about Bingley, but Jane didn't know anything about Lizzy's love for darcy until she told her that they were engaged. Jane didn't even believe her at first.
: Stefanie
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Bingley doesn't seem to have, either - when Lizzie tells Jane about the engagement, Jane says "Nothing could give either Bingley or myself more delight. But we considered it, we talked of it as impossible."
Joan, too
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Posted by hat on October 20, 1996 at 19:47:53:
:
: At Pemberley, hearing the housekeeper talk about him and his friendly attitude did show her a side of him that she had never seen.
: : Anne
:
: ___________________
:
it is possible to view him as a character deserving of our sympathy...
I agree with you, though I know I take a kinder view of Darcy than many.
As for....(I would argue that he is also very shy.)... Arnessa, others, and I had a little tussle over this question a few weeks back, and then I was away for a while, so I don't know if it was thrashed out, or people lost interest.
I think Arnessa's arguement was that Firth had made Darcy shy, with various mannerisms (like fiddling with his ring, hesitant speech) but that it is not supported in the book. Reserved yes, shy no. I argued that reserved people were often shy people who had developed some mechanisms to deal with social situations as they grew up, and Darcy was one of those. His habit of hanging around listening to conversations that are not strictly his, hoping to join in eventually, is one such mechanism:
'He began to wish to know more of her, and as a step towards conversing with her himself, attended to her conversation with others.'
I think in those days the less superior in rank had to wait for introductions to those more superior (hence the shock of Mr.C introducing himself to Darcy, and the way everyone waits for Lady Catherine to make herself known to the Bennets when she visits them). So Darcy had no excuse not to start up a conversation with Lizzie himself, as far as I can see, and he had already been introduced to Lizzie anyway.
All that said, I do agree that Firth perhaps made Darcy more shy than is in the book, and it works wonderfully well.
: Then there is his dreadful proposal - who could not feel sorry for him after that?
Agreed, too.
Hilary
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Posted by hat on October 20, 1996 at 20:24:20:
: In regard to the Wickham scandal, Lizzy was unable to discern that Darcy felt he was to blame for Lydia falling prey to him and had indeed resolved to assist in the matter before he quit the inn. As usual, she misinterpreted his stern departure for rejection, when in fact his mind was filled with the task at hand. While it may have eased her mind for him to reassure her that he would attempt to help find Wickham, etc., I don't think he wanted her to know of his hand in the matter. The theory may be that he did not want her to be beholden to him for this; he wanted her to love him for himself, not what he could do for her. Plus, there is the matter of pride - in the good sense of the word.
I also thought he did not want to let her know because he could not be sure how much he could help, and didn't wish to get her hopes up by promising more than he could deliver.
Hilary
Posted by Saman on October 20, 1996 at 20:42:47:
: : : ___________________
:
: Thanks, I thought you probably did, but you can't always predict what has filtered across the Tasman Sea, in either direction. I am wondering where you and Rose and Lisa are in NZ, but I don't have to know. Our family had a wonderful 2 weeks in NZ two Easters ago. We went from Wellington up through all the 'hot spots', luckily travelling with friends who could show us wonderful places like Ketitahi Springs. Then we had a week travelling on the south island. Didn't get down as far as Queenstown, but loved the west coast and glacier country. Love to visit there again sometime.
: Hilary
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I live in Wellington (well actually Lower Hutt, but I go to university in Wellington). I think I saw a post from Lisa with an Otago University address, so she's probably from Dunedin, on the South Island's East Coast.
Glad you enjoyed your trip to NZ.
Saman
Posted by janet on October 20, 1996 at 20:44:17:
: In fact, the opposite ways in which she interprets these two conversations points out how much our own prejudices can influence how we interpret the words/actions of others, and how negative prejudices can blind us to the truth.
: Joan, too
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True, as with so many situations in which Lizzy is led astray, including Wickham, Bingley and Darcy from beginning to end. She thinks she is a good judge of character but soon finds that not only are there some who will willfully mislead (Wickham), but she cannot always know the truth at first, as Jane tried to warn her. Her pride and prejudice lead her to misinterpret at first, willfully or otherwise, and later when the truth may be clear to us about how Darcy feels about her, she still fails to see it clearly.
__________
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Posted by Marie on October 20, 1996 at 20:45:39:
: : The comment made by Darcy that I find myself ambiguous about interpreting is "We neither of us perform to strangers."
: : Joan, too
:Can anyone tell me what the earlier part of Darcy's remark means, i.e., when he says (and I quote--and maybe misquote--from memory): "You are perfectly right. You have employed your time much better." Since Lizzie is not as proficient at the piano as she could be because, by her own admission, she has not practiced enough, what can Darcy be referring to? I have long been puzzled by this comment, and would love some explication.
Thanks in advance.
Marie
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Posted by Anne on October 20, 1996 at 20:54:45:
: : : The comment made by Darcy that I find myself ambiguous about interpreting is "We neither of us perform to strangers."
: : : Joan, too
:
: :Can anyone tell me what the earlier part of Darcy's remark means, i.e., when he says (and I quote--and maybe misquote--from memory): "You are perfectly right. You have employed your time much better." Since Lizzie is not as proficient at the piano as she could be because, by her own admission, she has not practiced enough, what can Darcy be referring to? I have long been puzzled by this comment, and would love some explication.
: Thanks in advance.
: Marie
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Marie - I was just re-reading this (in the book) as I found that part of the conversation confusing too. (Paraphrasing) He says he doesn't converse easily with strangers. She says that she doesn't play as well as she'd like but that it was her fault for not practicing enough. And then he says:
You are perfectly right. You have employed your time much better. No one admitted to the privilege of hearing you can think anything wanting.
If she didn't practice enough, then how did she employ her time that would have others think nothing wanting?
I too am confused --
Anne
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Posted by hat on October 20, 1996 at 20:56:28:
: The comment made by Darcy that I find myself ambiguous about interpreting is "We neither of us perform to strangers."
: Joan, too
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I love this line, but I can't work it out either. The closest I've come to accepting is:
He agrees that she has the capacity to play better. But he likes the way she plays piano, and more importantly, he likes her just as she is - instead of using her time to play better, as Lady C. implies ladies ought to, she's developed other capacities that he appreciates more, like wit and a liveliness of mind. They are alike in not neccesarily taking notice of such social conventions; they both are true to their own sense of integrity.
Hilary
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Posted by Jane A. on October 20, 1996 at 20:58:48:
: By the way, has anyone read MOO (also by Smiley)? Were you disappointed? I certainly was; no comparison to 1000Acres.
: : Grace
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Grace, I loved A Thousand Acres. My husband, Neil, teaches at Brandeis, and every year the entire freshman class is sent a book to read, and then there is a presentation to the whole class by a panel, followed by little groups to discuss the book more actively. A couple of years ago the powers that be chose A Thousand Acres, and even though Neil is a biologist he ended up leading one of the small sessions. It was amazing that a book he and I liked so much, the actual quality of the writing as well as the ambitiousness (hubris?) of what Smiley was doing, could be received with very mixed feelings by the freshmen, many of whom didn't get it. Neil has declined to be on the committee to chose the book for next fall---probably because he knows I would just nag him to chose P & P, which he is reading for the first time right now. I am a little jealous, actually---I would love to be reading it for the first time. Oh---back to the point---Moo was fun to read, but seemed to be written by a different person, and seemed sloppy in plot. But because I hear about silly faculty meetings and politics, it did amuse me.
Jane A. (originally Janey in the first month of the BB, then Jane, now Jane A. due to the increase in Janes on the board. Certainly a respectable name in any incarnation.)
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Posted by Joan, too on October 20, 1996 at 20:59:03:
: Janet:
: Her pride and prejudice lead her to misinterpret at first, willfully or otherwise, and later when the truth may be clear to us about how Darcy feels about her, she still fails to see it clearly.
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She does not see it, but I think more because at first she does not feel deserving because of how she had behaved, and then just as she dares to begin to believe that he still cares for her, the Lydia scandal occurs, and she is well enough aware of the social conventions to firmly believe that no respectable man will want anything to do with the Bennet family - much less Darcy, since allying himself with her would connect him by marriage to Wickham, who is the last person in the world that he would want to asssociate with.
Joan, too
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Posted by Jane A. on October 20, 1996 at 21:04:12:
: Seems to me that this P&P obsession has really enriched us, don't you think? Here we are, not only getting acquainted with every tiny aspect of the thing, but also reading our socks off - JA, anything to do with JA, I'm currently reading 'The English Patient', etc. etc. I've also watched more movies than usual catching up with CF's work. And the internet has become very attractive, even though I don't yet know much about how to use it!
: Hilary
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Yes, I will be reading the English Patient shortly because I won't let myself go to the movie until I've read it (not a constant rule for me but it is supposed to be a good book).
And we are all enriched by the web of friends Amy has gathered at this site.
Jane A.
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Posted by Janet on October 20, 1996 at 21:04:55:
: : : The comment made by Darcy that I find myself ambiguous about interpreting is "We neither of us perform to strangers."
: : : Joan, too
:
: :Can anyone tell me what the earlier part of Darcy's remark means, i.e., when he says (and I quote--and maybe misquote--from memory): "You are perfectly right. You have employed your time much better." Since Lizzie is not as proficient at the piano as she could be because, by her own admission, she has not practiced enough, what can Darcy be referring to? I have long been puzzled by this comment, and would love some explication.
: Thanks in advance.
: Marie
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I understand this to mean that she has become accomplished in many areas more important than the piano. He has said in one way or another that he admires her for her reading, social ease, wit, ability to fend for herself with the likes of his friends and relations, her independent thinking and her free spirit.
His next comment in the film (which I haven't compared with the book) sounds as if it was dubbed in later, "No one admitted to the pleasure of hearing you (on the piano) would think otherwise". I interpret this to be his attempt to bring in a compliment about her playing well despite her lack of practice. First he compliments her, then so she will understand it as such, he adds another compliment in the other direction. I think he is trying hard to show her how he feels in his awkward, inexperienced way.
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Posted by Anne on October 20, 1996 at 21:08:33:
Once before someone mentioned the Mr. Bennet's discussion with Lizzy of Lady
C's letter was very insensitive of him. That I could understand
more than his saying:
So, Lizzy, your sister is crossed in love I find. I congratulate her.
Next to being married, a girl likes to be crossed in love a little now
and then.
In the book this conversation seems to take place between just Lizzy and
Mr. B - but in the film version they are all together in the sitting
room and he makes sport of it as Jane sits there looking sad. I think
that it would have been better tete-a-tete as in the book.
Just a thought
Anne
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