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Posted by Friend on October 19, 1996 at 18:15:43:
I STILL do not understand this thread, but I've heard that it is hilariously funny and need to find out? What IS the Daggy thread?
Posted by Grace on October 19, 1996 at 18:18:14:
: : To those who know more about the times, would a gentleman's daughter have travelled without a maid?
: I think that a gentleman's daughter might have traveled with a maid, but the one indispensible thing would have been a manservant: to treavel unattended was improper, so maybe HE overheard, since Gardiner's wouyld have joined them only after some time (?) am i right?
: Help, Mysterious H.C.
: P.S. I am so glad to be back!
: Someone told me that, in the Making of...book, the historical accuracy person estimated that a household like the Bennets' would have had a staff of 18. Is that true?
If it is, Lizzy could very well have had a maid travelling with her.
Posted by Friend on October 19, 1996 at 18:18:45:
Mine is the scene where Darcy comes out of the stream near his home.
I watch it over and over, again and again. What's yours? Care to chat?
Posted by Stefanie on October 19, 1996 at 18:19:05:
: The explanation for the swimming in terms of the movie is much simpler. Remember the time-frame. He has just ridden up from London to Derbyshire and it is either the last week of July or into August. The poor man is hot and sweaty. A cool dip is just the thing...
: But in terms of the movie's attempt at symbolism, this fails utterly.
I think that Darcy decided to take a swim because he simply needed to cool off. True, he needed to cool off because he just had a long ride and it was hot out, but he also needed to cool off emotionally. I think it was simply an act out of frustration.
Posted by Friend on October 19, 1996 at 18:22:25:
I agree that the word you heard is "paltry". But I don't know how yuou catch these things. After watching P&P 16 times (on tape) I am still mesmerized throughout the entire movie.
Posted by Anne on October 19, 1996 at 18:22:30:
I believe Lizzy when she says she doesn't begin to like Darcy until she sees him on his own territory - Pemberley - and sees the change that has come over him as a result of her rejection.
: : : MaryH
: Although there was obviously much more involved in Lizzy's reconsideration of Darcy personally, there is also the suggestion that she was indeed affected by what else she saw at Pemberly. Besides his transformation, she may well have been affected by the concrete evidence of his estate, property and a glimpse of what her life would be as mistress of Pemberly. The Gardiners try to suggest her reevaluation of this perspective as well. She may have been more serious than she lets on when she tells Jane that she first realized she loved him upon seeing his lovely grounds at Pemberly.
I feel her re-evaluation of Darcy began with the letter. She felt him proud and disagreeable but the main causes of
dislike were the Wickham affair and his causing Bingley to
leave Jane. The first was explained completely and not only
showed her that Wickham was the liar and scoundral but that
Darcy was more considerate. The second, once she began to
reflect, was more understandable though she still thought
that he was in the wrong. At Pemberley, hearing the housekeeper talk about him and his friendly attitude did show her a side of him that she had never seen.
Posted by Ann on October 19, 1996 at 18:25:16:
: I think that Darcy decided to take a swim because he simply needed to cool off. True, he needed to cool off because he just had a long ride and it was hot out, but he also needed to cool off emotionally. I think it was simply an act out of frustration.
He was also quite dirty from the road; his coat is mud-splashed.
This scene also shows his youth (6 years younger than Firth)
and vitality. An older man would not concider doing such a
thing. Three added Darcy scenes, the opening horse race with
Bingley, the fencing scene, and the swim, all show an active
and youthful man. They were in part added by Davies for
Posted by Mrs. S on October 19, 1996 at 18:26:03:
What kind of pig are you!?! I cannot believe you are in any way attracted to the rude and insolent person called "Betty"? She is a disgrace to all P&P fans!
Posted by kathleen on October 19, 1996 at 18:26:27:
: Mine is the scene where Darcy comes out of the stream near his home.
: I watch it over and over, again and again. What's yours? Care to chat?
There are several places where the video tape is getting worn out -- but two of my
(1) the 2nd proposal (Darcy's happiness after Elizabeth tells him how her feelings
have changed, and when Darcy calls her "dearest, loveliest Elizabeth" and they both
look longingly at each other)
(2) the scene after dinner at Pemberley where Darcy gives Elizabeth that look and she
[Excuse me, but I think I'll just refresh my memory of these scenes.]
Posted by Marsha on October 19, 1996 at 18:33:18:
: : ___________________
: : : Can`t we just ignore mean and awful messages?
: : Yes. That is what we would have to do if we were we to switch to Usenet as some have suggested.
: : Then it would be public and participants would feel even more of a right to dictate what we should and should not talk about.
: : I like this format for the links, pictures and fun-with-HTML stuff (your use of bold characters did not go unnoticed, Ann2 -- isn't it fun?) I also like the community here and I liked the whole tone of the board altogether until last night.
: : You sensed right. The invasion did wound me. Somebody came here, into my drawing room, so it seems to me, saying: Betty was the only one who had a clue... certain of us are saps... and more.
: : Well, the way I look at it, she does not get to remain as a guest in my house and she is not welcome to come back and gather with the rest of us. Rather than let her insult my friends, and try to ignore that she is sitting across from me, drinking my tea, I will pop her out just as Samantha the Witch might do.
: : Also I returned home last night to find not only this invasion but a hostile frightening phone message from my ex. Think I will go out and see a comedy.
: : Amy
: This must be upsetting for you. I can well imagine how you must feel, but clearly you have many friends here who understand and appreciate what you are doing. As a newcomer, I do not know the history of how this site came to be, but there seems to be a nice following. It would be a shame to allow those who "do not have anything better to do" to disrupt the good intentions and enjoyment of others. As Mary B. might say, "let not them put asunder" or something like that... You are held in high regard by others more worthy. Thank you for what you are doing.
Don't pay any attention to someone posting 'mean' messages: We all really apreciate and thank you!!!!
Posted by Ann on October 19, 1996 at 18:34:41:
I think one of the main influences on Lizzy at Pemberley
(apart from meeting a very different Darcy than the one she
had previously known--in wet shirtsleeves no less!) was Mrs.
Reynolds' description of him. It was very different from
what she had thought, and been told, of him before. To hear
him so well regarded by someone who has known him since his
childhood, must have been influential. Indeed, Austen says
that it was so.
Reynolds: "I have never had a cross word from him in my life,
and I have known him since he was four years old."
Reynolds described him as "the sweetest-tempered, most
generous-hearted boy in the world." This was absolutely the
opposite of Lizzy's opinion of him.
But the clincher was Reynolds' description: "Some people
call him proud; but I am sure I never saw anything of it. To
my fancy, it is only because he does not rattle away like
other young men."
This statement more than the others provided Lizzy with a
template for her revised opinion of Darcy. Lizzy had already
learned from his letter, and from re-examining their
aquaintance, that he was a man of honour and integrity--which
was not what she had once thought of him. There were only
two outstanding complaints against him: that he had hurt her
sister, and that he was overly proud.
The first complaint was lessened by his letter, which forced
her to remember the deeply mortifying scene at the Netherfield
"To Elizabeth it appeared that, had her family made
an agreement to expose themselves as much as they
could during the evening, it would have been
impossible for them to play their parts with more
spirit or finer success."
Though she was still upset by her sister's disappointment
and the melancholy it brought on, she could at least
understand why Darcy would have wished to save Bingley from
becoming the social property of Mrs. Bennet! (Indeed, we can
all understand it.)
As for the second complaint, when Elizabeth saw Darcy again, at
Pemberley, with Reynolds' description fresh in her mind, she
could see him as more misunderstood than truly offensive; or
perhaps, not as intentionally offensive as had been the
general opinion of him in Hertfordshire. She could see how a
quiet man, who
"certainly [has] not the talent which some possess
of conversing easily with those [he has] never seen
before. [And who] cannot catch their tone of
conversation, or appear interested in their concerns,
as [one] often see[s] done"
could come across as unpardonably rude and arrogant. Without
Reynolds' description of him echoing in Elizabeth's head,
she may not have been able to see past his past behavior and
begin to understand him.
With the issue of his "arrogance, [his] conceit, and [his]
selfish distain for the feelings of others" resolved, with
the help of Mrs. Reynolds, to Elizabeth's satisfaction, the
only thing left to resolve was her sister's situation. I
believe Bingley's return to Netherfield must have been, in
part, orchestrated by Darcy. I imagine that, when they were
discussing where they should go shooting in the autumn,
Darcy said something like: "we certainly had good sport last
year ;-)." Which would have been a large enough opening for
Bingley to suggest that they try Netherfield again, to which
Darcy would of course have either no disinclination or only
a token objection.
Thus Elizabeth's last objection to Darcy was removed (with
her added gratitude from what he did for Lydia), and
they could live happily ever after (despite what some of the
sequels would have us believe.) So, I believe that Darcy and
Elizabeth owe their everlasting happiness in large part to
Posted by Stefanie on October 19, 1996 at 18:36:36:
My computer, and therefore my sole means of accessing this bb, crashed on Monday the 7. Since I couldn't get it fixed for over a week, I missed the attacks that were made to this bulletin board.
When I finally was able to log back on, I was shocked to hear that people had actually come to what I refer to as my "safe haven" to insult its inhabitants.
While I am sorry that I was not ehre to rally behind you guys, in a selfish way, I'm gald I missed it. I'm very sorry for all of the problems that have occured here in the past week or so. I hope that this never happens again.
We all appreciate what you are doing here Amy.
Posted by Anne on October 19, 1996 at 18:39:17:
I missed the beginning of this thread but think that I've caught the drift. This was something that I noticed too throughout the story. In some book that I read a long time ago, a gentleman was being fitted for a suit by a tailor and
was asked which way he dressed -- took the character as long to figure this question out as the reader.
Posted by Anne on October 19, 1996 at 18:45:31:
: : ___________________
: : So, is the one coming up on A&E the ITV 2-hour version, or a
: : completely different BBC version? (Three Emma's all within
: : about a year seems a bit too much, can there possibly be a
: : Mirimax Emma, a ITV Emma, AND a BBC Emma!!)
: : Ann
: As far as I am aware, the BBC production of Emma is still a rumour. It has been mentioned in various newspaper articles over here, but I haven't yet found anything from the BBC to substantiate these rumours!
A&E showed scenes of filming Emma when P&P2 was re-aired. I assumed that this was in conjunction with BBC - as was P&P2.
Posted by Stefanie on October 19, 1996 at 18:48:38:
: It's only that you probably have not read the book DOZENS of times as have
: many of us who follow this BB.
: I think that each time Darcy looked at Elizabeth, he found something else to
Just as each time I read the book (or watch the movie for that matter), I find something else to love about it!
Posted by Tommye on October 19, 1996 at 18:51:56:
Do you go through all the comments, etc., and clean house every week? Is it done by date? Sometimes I come in and get a bit confused, searching for a subject that's gone. I realize there has to be some elimination. I was just curious about timing and procedures.
P. S. Re All that stuff that I must have missed. Sorry you had to experience such negativity on this BB. It has been a joy for me and I look forward to checking in every day, if possible. My daughters experienced similar happenings on their chat rooms, so they ended up not participating. Can you really keep creeping critics out??
Posted by Anne on October 19, 1996 at 18:52:58:
. If anyone has the film handy, they might want to observe more closely any reactions he may have to Mary prior to the scene of his "consolation visit."
During the dance at Netherfield (while Darcy and Elizabeth are dancing together), Mary and Mr. C are in the background having what looks to be an enjoyable conversation.
Posted by Amy on October 19, 1996 at 18:57:02:
: Elizabeth owe their everlasting happiness in large part to
: Mrs. Reynolds.
Ann, my dear,
A very nicely thought out idea and expressly so very well too. You could almost say the butler did it.
Posted by Jane on October 19, 1996 at 18:58:07:
I saw the motion picture of "Emma" starring Paltrow, and thought it was pretty good. The filming was good, and Paltrow fit the role of matchmaker well. I was angered, however at the poster outside the theater which said "This year, cupid is armed and dangerous." Talk about a dumb poster.
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