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Posted by Eric on October 19, 1996 at 02:43:41:
: : : : : Why should these events be connected with water?
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : :
: : : : : Are you sure you want to plunge into this?
: : : LOL! Grace, I can see you have been true to your word and transferred your attentions away from the 'daggy thread'. I shall try to do the same, though I did enjoy it!
: : : Eric, I hadn't made these connections. I'm inclined to think they are not intentional, but were put in to give a feel of ordinary life.
: : : Hilary
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : : Hilary, I think even Jane herself would have taken delight in the ladylike exchange of that thread. As an author, however, she would known when to write THE END ....as we did. Thank goodness.
:
: ___________________
:
: I just thought that all the water stuff was because Colin Firth just looks so good wet. Think about it -- It must be a standard clause in his contracts. Wet in P&P2, Wet in Valmont (when he falls in the lake to get Meg Tilly's attention), wet in Month in the Country (getting quite rained on while looking at the church gutters), and again wet in The Advocate (public bath scene).
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Plausible. But I thought we men were the only fools interested in wet-t-shirt contests...
Posted by Ian on October 19, 1996 at 02:45:28:
: I would have thought Darcy a Tory from the word go. Mind, however, with extensive connections in Scotland (Col. Fitzwilliam is the son of a Scottish Earl), he might be a little less well disposed towards the King, but the Earl is from the border regions and the shaggy highlanders may well have been found wanting in Mr. Darcy's eyes. No, I think he would vote Tory.
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G'day Eric,
Yes I should have asked Whig or Tory. Whigs are now the Liberals and Torys the Conservatives. But no doubt as both were only for the Upper Classes they were parties which really only philosophied. Perhaps as the Tories were the more radical maybe Darcy did vote for them.
Posted by Eric on October 19, 1996 at 02:47:02:
: : : I find it interesting that before almost every meeting which tends to revise Lizzie's opinion of Darcy, or vice versa, Darcy is washing - at least, in P&P2. I do not, I confess, know if this is the case in the book.
: : : There is one instance where this is not the case - the Lucas party at which he decides she has fine eyes and is more than merely tolerable.
: : : But before he sees her playing with the dog, he's bathing. Before he hands her the letter, he's washing up. Before he meets her in the garden at Pemberly, he's swimming. The first one is where his own prejudice cracks. The second two signify the cracking of her prejudice, and the time when she suddenly, she desires his good opinion.
: : : Why should these events be connected with water?
: :
: : ___________________
: : I didn't originally notice the connection, but now that you mention it... I always thought that Darcy was about to commit suicide in the pond at Pemberley. In the book, however, there is no mention made of his swimming at all prior to his meeting with Elizabeth. I simply figured he didn't have the guts to go through with his suicide attempt after he dove in.
:
: ___________________
:
: * I must admit that scene was rather dramatic. I can see how you might have thought so. He did seem on the brink of despair, didn't he? And how his spirits change when he sees Elizabeth on the lawn! Still, my first instinct wasn't to think that he would commit suicide, but that perhaps it was an irrationality out of anguish. He needed some sort of diversion; I think a little cold water could divert anyone. In any case, I enjoyed Darcy's 'irrationality'. A friend was watching this with me one evening (she had never seen it before), and said that the scene might have been more effective if Darcy had removed his shirt. I was amused.
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The explanation for the swimming in terms of the movie is much simpler. Remember the time-frame. He has just ridden up from London to Derbyshire and it is either the last week of July or into August. The poor man is hot and sweaty. A cool dip is just the thing...
But in terms of the movie's attempt at symbolism, this fails utterly.
Posted by Eric on October 19, 1996 at 02:51:18:
: : : : : Have you read the Bio on Colin Firth - I thought he was older than the 25 years that Mr Darcy was. At 34 he may have been too old for this role?
: : : : : Rose:
: : : : ___________________
: : : :
: : : : Man, I thought Darcy was supposed to be 28 or 29!
: : : : - K
: : : : PS - I know how Amy feels - We know we're crazy, and we don't need anybody else to tell us that. Still, isn't it kind of fun to be part of a wacko cult following? If everyone were like us, it wouldn't be the same!
: : : Yes I agree! I like being like this!
: : : In the letter to Elizabeth, Darcy tells of his sister almost eloping with Wickham in the spring? I thought this was only the year before, as wasn't her portrait painted on her 16th birthday. And Darcy was "A brother 10 years her senior"
: : : So he'd be 26? Still, what's age when you're gorgeous - like Colin!?
: : : Cheers
: : : Rose
: : :
: : ___________________
: : In the book's version of Darcy's second proposal, he tells Elizabeth that he had been proud & conceited "from eight to eight and twenty" so he was 28 at least by the end of the novel if not at the time of the 1st proposal.
: : kathleen
: Ah Haa! Thanks I hadn't picked up on that bit.
: More in depth study of the book required!!
: Cheers
: Rose
:
: ___________________
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Also, the quote in the movie is "more than ten years my junior" - so it does not require that he be exactly 26, only that he be at least 26. Twenty-eight fits that criteria.
Posted by Ann2 on October 19, 1996 at 05:31:38:
: : :
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : Would that be the one with Michelle Pfeiffer and Jessica Lange(?) ?
: : : Ann2
: :
: : ___________________
: : Yes. And Jason Robards.
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: Who will Colin fall in love with? I think both Michelle and Jessica are happily attached. This may be quite dull for him.
: Mich
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Have you been annoyed with that remark of Firth`s too (if indeed he did say it) that he thinks when the first time of delight has passed and it all comes down to trying to make a relationship work, it all becomes rather dull for him... Not a very mature thing to say or...
Ann2
Posted by Ann2 on October 19, 1996 at 06:08:49:
: : : "all this 'non touching' was almost too much."
: : _______________
: : : I agree, I wanted Lizzie to jump in his arms.
: : : Mich
: : ___________________
: : That was the point wasn't it? Make us think, 'Grab her, dummy! Do what you are thinking about.'
:
: ___________________
: Exactly! I always thought if Lizzie had just hugged him or touched him he would have lost control and been all over her. In a gentleman's way of course. You know his passion was right on the edge.
: Mich
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Thanks to you all for those lines.I´ve been away on a sad errand, and it was so nice to be back on that walk in the wind, bumping and glances. I have tried to save this remark to the sixth tape, but... I
would have preferred Darcy to bring her hand to his chest, look into her eyes and finally maybe allow himself to place one violent kiss on the inside of her wrist. After all Jane A does say that he expressed himself as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love could be expected to...
But if she left that to our imagination maybe Davies wanted to do the same. But if I could exchange my fantasy for that somehow all too modern final kiss, I would at once. In the carriage, looks and some
decent touching would have been preferred. That accidental(?) hand on Darcy´s thigh was almost too much. Do you think they(Jennifer and Colin) had agreed on that. It was highly improper was it not?
Ann2
Posted by Ann2 on October 19, 1996 at 06:49:22:
: :
:
: ___________________
: I hadn't realised that this could have been one of the reasons he thought she was expecting his addresses, but it makes sense.
Yes, I agree. Ann2
: Its always been a puzzle to me that he thought she was expecting his addresses, because we don't see any evidence... for a prospective wife. We have to assume that he takes the same view as Lizzie when it comes to fulfilment in marriage, don't we?
No, not at all in the first month of their acquaintance. I suspect he had been taugth to believe every woman in England
- the royal family excluded - would welcome his adresses. At
Netherfield he says something about chanses of marrying well
that sounds quite buisnesslike to me. Ann2
: Lizzie is the only woman that engages with him as an equal, so I guess he may reasonably have interpreted that as an invitation.
Yes, and his second thoughts that last day at N. when he completly ignores her, shows that he considered it possible that she should have taken his earlier conduct towards her as an encouragement. Ann2
: I think I've just convinced myself! Sorry if this should have taken place in my head rather than as a post!
Oh no please don´t just think what you had much better tell us. It might start a new chain of speculations that would amuse us all. As for myself I find almost everything even remotely connected entertaining. Ann2
: Three other things:
: I don't like that scene where D is on horseback, running into Lizzie... I think he was trying to be somewhat amenable at this stage.
He was still struggling in vain I suppose, but he would have saluted her beeing wellmannered and all. But overtook by confusion...? Ann2
:
: The other meeting in the garden that I liked but didn't make it into the film, was the one at Netherfield where the Bingly sisters try to snub Lizzie by squashing her off the path. They try to include Darcy in the snub, he tries to correct it, but Lizzie skips away from them all.
: Hilary
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Yes , I have read about the symbolic meaning of the road not beeing wide enough to give room for Lizzy and she leaves them. And at Pemberley in the book, where Darcy approaches them for the second time she has recently crossed a bridge and then they are able to meet and walk side by side. Don´t remember the datails.
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 19, 1996 at 06:58:47:
: : : Janey:
: : : Is it just me, or is Lydia the most obnoxious little brat you have ever: seen? It was horrible of her to run on with Wiggham, and, scoundrel that he was, even HE was too good for her!!!: She must have known that Lizzy felt some feeling for him!! She is a monster!!!: Lydia is a brat, but a well-portrayed one at that.: Care to comment?
: ___________________
: Spoiled, flaky, scatterbrained, manic for attention...and yes, very well portrayed!
: - K
: ___________________
: The thing about Lydia's character that particularly intrigues me is that she is pretty much universally perceived as the daughter who is most like Mrs. Bennet - Alison Steadman thought so, as well, according to "The Making" - so one would assume that the Lydia we see now would be very much like what Mrs. B. was when she was that age - and when Mr. Bennet chose to marry her. The assumption here that I find mos difficult to "buy" is that Mr. B. was at one point in his life so silly himself as to be attracted to a "Lydia" and to go so far as to actually marry her! Wickham, yes, Mr. B. no way!
: Joan, too
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Perhaps Mrs. Bennet was under better parental regulation (than Lydia) when she was a teenager. So she might have been silly, like Lydia, but not as wild and outrageous. Mrs B might then have just gotten worse with age -- after all she now had a higher social position in the community, and there was noboby who could curb her tendencies.
It does seem strange that Mr. Bennet married such a silly woman, but stranger things have been known to happen -- especially in fiction!
kathleen
P.S. I agree that Julia Sawalha's performance as Lydia is very good.
Posted by Ann2 on October 19, 1996 at 07:44:25:
: :
: : Amy is something wrong what do you mean by terrorism. You sound very upset.
: ___________________
: Yes. It's pointless to delete stuff I don't want up here, then tell all about what it was. It was just some nasty, putting-us-down stuff. Why? I don't understand. If they don't like this why don't they just stay away?
: Amy
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Can`t we just ignore mean and awful messages? Amy, How far of you seem, please don`t allow them to make you feel bad!
WE love You!
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 19, 1996 at 08:00:50:
: Since there are know pic. of CF at The English Patient site I guess his role isn't to big or
: he is the mysterious patient. Does anyone know how important is his role.
: Just wondering Donna,
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He plays a pilot from England a rather intriguing personality from what I hear. I am ashamed to admit that though I have read the book some years ago and liked it a lot, this desert part where Colin Firth parttakes must be a short episode for I do not remember it. The villa in Tuscany with the terribly burnt patient, the nurse and two other men, one of which desarms(?) mines,(Symbolic?) and has a love story with the nurse. This is what I have grasped.Who the patient is ? I will have to read the book again.
Ann2
Posted by Grace on October 19, 1996 at 08:47:18:
: : Anyone else having trouble envisioning Colin Firth in A Thousand Acres? Darcy in a pickup truck at the dump?
: All astonishment! I had been trying to find out who will be in A Thousand Acres,and I had been guessing more along Sam Shepard lines. I never dreamed of CF in such a role. You must be right about Michelle and Jessica falling in love with Darcy, but say only nice things about them because they are probably PP2BB lurkers. Jane
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: I do agree with you; Michelle and Jessica must be lurkers. (In their honor, in fact, we should add a new sign of addiction to our list: Producing and starring in multi-million dollars pics just so you can cast Colin as your leading man.)
Jennifer Jason-Leigh must be playing the third sister, Caroline - do you think?
The setting may be a problem for us all but the character of Jess does have qualities that are typical of Colin's other roles.
Also, everyone will be pleased to know there is much symbolism in the water references throughout the story.
Posted by Grace on October 19, 1996 at 09:02:20:
: : :
: : : Amy is something wrong what do you mean by terrorism. You sound very upset.
: : ___________________
: : Yes. It's pointless to delete stuff I don't want up here, then tell all about what it was. It was just some nasty, putting-us-down stuff. Why? I don't understand. If they don't like this why don't they just stay away?
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: Can`t we just ignore mean and awful messages? Amy, How far of you seem, please don`t allow them to make you feel bad!
: WE love You!
: Ann2
___________________
: Amy, I hope I was not responsible for inviting problems (the Daggy thread). The opportunities for wit just called out; I should have known problems would occur. Please don't be discouraged.
: Grace
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 19, 1996 at 09:12:44:
: : Amy, I hope I was not responsible for inviting problems (the Daggy thread). The opportunities for wit just called out; I should have known problems would occur. Please don't be discouraged.
: : Grace
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Don't be silly. About that I mean. Please do continue to be silly and entertain us in your other funny ways.
Amy
Posted by Ann2 on October 19, 1996 at 09:26:03:
Amy´s observation on "wired beauty" some days ago makes me think
of some passages that I missheard in a similar manner.
After miss Bingley´s warning to Lizzy about Wickham, Lizzy is
quite upset and says something to Jane of a poultry attack
I see before me a bunch of angry hens and other feathered friends...
And when Darcy says that he would be happy to provide Mr Gardiner
with broads? and tackle - this does not sound at all like
something to mention in front of the ladies...and he goes on "and
show you the best spots". Hear I am really at a loss as my dictionaries
have not been able to help me out. Have not tried the on-line ones
yet.
Ann2
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 19, 1996 at 09:28:00:
: Amy´s observation on "wired beauty" some days ago makes me think
: of some passages that I missheard in a similar manner.
: After miss Bingley´s warning to Lizzy about Wickham, Lizzy is
: quite upset and says something to Jane of a poultry attack
: I see before me a bunch of angry hens and other feathered friends...
: And when Darcy says that he would be happy to provide Mr Gardiner
: with broads? and tackle - this does not sound at all like
: something to mention in front of the ladies...and he goes on "and
: show you the best spots". Hear I am really at a loss as my dictionaries
: have not been able to help me out. Have not tried the on-line ones
: yet.
: Ann2
___________________
Posted by Amy on October 19, 1996 at 10:28:24:
Can't help with the poultry but as for
: And when Darcy says that he would be happy to provide Mr Gardiner
: with broads? and tackle -
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That would be rods and tackle. Rods meaning fishing poles.
Did they have reels then, I wonder? It would seem they would though maybe not with ball bearings?
Amy
Posted by Amy on October 19, 1996 at 11:26:50:
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: Can`t we just ignore mean and awful messages?
Yes. That is what we would have to do if we were we to switch to Usenet as some have suggested.
Then it would be public and participants would feel even more of a right to dictate what we should and should not talk about.
I like this format for the links, pictures and fun-with-HTML stuff (your use of bold characters did not go unnoticed, Ann2 -- isn't it fun?) I also like the community here and I liked the whole tone of the board altogether until last night.
You sensed right. The invasion did wound me. Somebody came here, into my drawing room, so it seems to me, saying: Betty was the only one who had a clue... certain of us are saps... and more.
Well, the way I look at it, she does not get to remain as a guest in my house and she is not welcome to come back and gather with the rest of us. Rather than let her insult my friends, and try to ignore that she is sitting across from me, drinking my tea, I will pop her out just as Samantha the Witch might do.
Also I returned home last night to find not only this invasion but a hostile frightening phone message from my ex. Think I will go out and see a comedy.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Janet on October 19, 1996 at 11:44:40:
: ___________________
: : Can`t we just ignore mean and awful messages?
: Yes. That is what we would have to do if we were we to switch to Usenet as some have suggested.
: Then it would be public and participants would feel even more of a right to dictate what we should and should not talk about.
: I like this format for the links, pictures and fun-with-HTML stuff (your use of bold characters did not go unnoticed, Ann2 -- isn't it fun?) I also like the community here and I liked the whole tone of the board altogether until last night.
: You sensed right. The invasion did wound me. Somebody came here, into my drawing room, so it seems to me, saying: Betty was the only one who had a clue... certain of us are saps... and more.
: Well, the way I look at it, she does not get to remain as a guest in my house and she is not welcome to come back and gather with the rest of us. Rather than let her insult my friends, and try to ignore that she is sitting across from me, drinking my tea, I will pop her out just as Samantha the Witch might do.
: Also I returned home last night to find not only this invasion but a hostile frightening phone message from my ex. Think I will go out and see a comedy.
: Amy
__________
This must be upsetting for you. I can well imagine how you must feel, but clearly you have many friends here who understand and appreciate what you are doing. As a newcomer, I do not know the history of how this site came to be, but there seems to be a nice following. It would be a shame to allow those who "do not have anything better to do" to disrupt the good intentions and enjoyment of others. As Mary B. might say, "let not them put asunder" or something like that... You are held in high regard by others more worthy. Thank you for what you are doing.
_________
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 19, 1996 at 12:10:38:
: : :
: :
: : ___________________
: : I hadn't realised that this could have been one of the reasons he thought she was expecting his addresses, but it makes sense.
: Yes, I agree. Ann2
: : Its always been a puzzle to me that he thought she was expecting his addresses, because we don't see any evidence... for a prospective wife. We have to assume that he takes the same view as Lizzie when it comes to fulfilment in marriage, don't we?
: No, not at all in the first month of their acquaintance. I suspect he had been taugth to believe every woman in England
: - the royal family excluded - would welcome his adresses. At
: Netherfield he says something about chanses of marrying well
: that sounds quite buisnesslike to me. Ann2
: : Lizzie is the only woman that engages with him as an equal, so I guess he may reasonably have interpreted that as an invitation.
: Yes, and his second thoughts that last day at N. when he completly ignores her, shows that he considered it possible that she should have taken his earlier conduct towards her as an encouragement. Ann2
: : I think I've just convinced myself! Sorry if this should have taken place in my head rather than as a post!
: Oh no please don´t just think what you had much better tell us. It might start a new chain of speculations that would amuse us all. As for myself I find almost everything even remotely connected entertaining. Ann2
: : Three other things:
: : I don't like that scene where D is on horseback, running into Lizzie... I think he was trying to be somewhat amenable at this stage.
: He was still struggling in vain I suppose, but he would have saluted her beeing wellmannered and all. But overtook by confusion...? Ann2
:
: :
: : The other meeting in the garden that I liked but didn't make it into the film, was the one at Netherfield where the Bingly sisters try to snub Lizzie by squashing her off the path. They try to include Darcy in the snub, he tries to correct it, but Lizzie skips away from them all.
: : Hilary
:
: ___________________
: Yes , I have read about the symbolic meaning of the road not beeing wide enough to give room for Lizzy and she leaves them. And at Pemberley in the book, where Darcy approaches them for the second time she has recently crossed a bridge and then they are able to meet and walk side by side. Don´t remember the datails.
: Ann2
___________________
What I think is when he "mention of their chances of marry well", he is showing concern for Elizabeth, because he had a chance to say she looked awful after her walk,but no he likes the way she looked he could of really made a big deal about it. I don't think he has ever met anyone like a Elizabeth and he really enjoys all the independent things she has done. That is why he sort of smirks at her "on foot",he really thought it was amusing,but then she reminds him how she doesn't like him. She could of laughed with him and at herself. Instead she is insulted again and comes back with I don't care what you think attitude, "I 've come to inquireabout my sister.Would you please take me to her". He saw her attitude and didn't say anything else. I think it we must go back to the dance at Meryton I think he might know now that she as overheard what he said,because he is always trying to be nice to her but she won't let him because she is afraid she might fall in love with a rich man or would she be that lucky that he would fall in love with her.His opinions changed after the Lucas Lodge party.
Donna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 19, 1996 at 12:20:29:
: Amy´s observation on "wired beauty" some days ago makes me think
: of some passages that I missheard in a similar manner.
: After miss Bingley´s warning to Lizzy about Wickham, Lizzy is
: quite upset and says something to Jane of a poultry attack
: I see before me a bunch of angry hens and other feathered friends...
: And when Darcy says that he would be happy to provide Mr Gardiner
: with broads? and tackle - this does not sound at all like
: something to mention in front of the ladies...and he goes on "and
: show you the best spots". Hear I am really at a loss as my dictionaries
: have not been able to help me out. Have not tried the on-line ones
: yet.
: Ann2
___________________
I always thought Mr. Collins was saying the distinction of rags preserved. This is what made me by the book and read it Oh maybe five times.
ciao Donna
p.s. going to another football game,in the rain I love this board. Anything I can do let me know, Love Donna
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