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Posted by Janet on October 18, 1996 at 16:25:40:
: : : : At the Netherfield Ball in P&P2 we see a tortured Darcy -- trying to avoid Elizabeth,
: : : : but drawn like a moth to a flame.
: : No wonder he thinks she actually likes him (she does unconsciously as practically everyone on this BB agrees).
: : : Rebecca
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: : ___________________
: :
: : I really don't think she does like him here, but she is flattered by his attention (though she would never admit it!). It is something of a triumph to have him ask her to dance for a second time when he didn't think her pretty enough on their first meeting. I believe Lizzy when she says she doesn't begin to like Darcy until she sees him on his own territory - Pemberley - and sees the change that has come over him as a result of her rejection.
: : MaryH
: Do any of you feel sorry for Mr Darcy when he asked Elizabeth to marry him...Perhaps I'm soft but I thought considering his wealth and prestige (and is rather nice looking...) she could have been a bit nicer!
: Though thats one of the threads of the story isn't it - that a man can be changed from a pompous proud &^%$ to someone much nicer by a good woman!!
: Rose
:
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Although there was obviously much more involved in Lizzy's reconsideration of Darcy personally, there is also the suggestion that she was indeed affected by what else she saw at Pemberly. Besides his transformation, she may well have been affected by the concrete evidence of his estate, property and a glimpse of what her life would be as mistress of Pemberly. The Gardiners try to suggest her reevaluation of this perspective as well. She may have been more serious than she lets on when she tells Jane that she first realized she loved him upon seeing his lovely grounds at Pemberly.
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Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 18, 1996 at 16:26:39:
:
: : ___________________
: : Oh yes, he definitely would want to look his best for Lizzy (especially since I think one of his motives for visiting Elizabeth was to propose to her again). What I was really trying to say was that I don't think he was the type of person to spend hours in front of the mirror. He certainly didn't spend hours on combing his hair -- throughout the film it had a "scrunched" look, which became him rather well!
: : Bernie
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: : ___________________
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: ___________________
: I've read in some books that the messed-up hair was general during the period: and indeed, done on purpose: it took a long time to achieve a sufficient state of peculiar messiness/carelesness
: Marsha
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What goes around comes around. The "grunge look" is back again.
Ann
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Posted by Donna on October 18, 1996 at 16:42:37:
: or
: : he is the mysterious patient. Does anyone know how important is his role.
: : Just wondering Donna,
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: I don't know the book. I don't follow the Firthlist so carefully as I follow the discussions here. I don't know much do I? Have a feeling he must be the patient. According to the Firthlisters Miramax says his pic is not up because they don't have a pic. Were he playing the lead, it seems they would make certain they got a picture. Apparently (also according to the snippets of the Firthlist I do read) Colin hasn't his own publicist at the moment, only the temp Disney rep for 1,000 Acres for which he just finished the location stuff outside Chicago and is now back in LA for the rest. He either does not want to push his image --- or something: finds it beneath him to be sold like so much sausage? Cares little for what Americans think? Doesn't know how? Doesn't want to be any bigger? Go figure.
: Amy
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I think when your an actor and have done some of the films he has done you should expect to be a commodity of some sort. I don't think he should care what we think, or sell out I think maybe he doesn't know what he wants, with fame and fortune you gain respect from you peers. They say stardom is fleeting , make hay while the sunshines.
All of a sudden he is making so many movies, so the more movies he makes the more he'll be in the public eye. In this knew movie 1,000 acres he will really be in the middle of two very popular "American" movie stars. I think he wants it all. He just wants to appear humble.
Donna
Posted by Jane on October 18, 1996 at 17:10:22:
: Anyone else having trouble envisioning Colin Firth in A Thousand Acres? Darcy in a pickup truck at the dump?
All astonishment! I had been trying to find out who will be in A Thousand Acres,and I had been guessing more along Sam Shepard lines. I never dreamed of CF in such a role. You must be right about Michelle and Jessica falling in love with Darcy, but say only nice things about them because they are probably PP2BB lurkers. Jane
Posted by Donna on October 18, 1996 at 17:11:13:
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: : Last week, I would have agreed with you about reading a story about Elizabeth and Darcy that was sad and suspenseful. However, since my computer crashed last Monday, I have been feeding my addiction by reading some of the published sequels. While two of them in particular were really NOT happy, I still couldn't put them down. (Pemberley and An Unequal Marriage.) I guess that I just had to know that everything would be okay in the end.
: : Has anyone else read these books? I couldn't believe the fact that Tennant actually had the Darcys on the point of seperation in both books!!
: : I also read Pemberley Shades and it was better.
: : -Stefanie :)
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: All right, I confess I have read most of the P&P sequels I could get my hands on. Like you I could not stop reading the two Tennant books (Pemberley, An Unequal Marriage). Basically, I did not like them because I totally disagreed with the portrayal of Elizabeth as somewhat whinny and too much out of the information loops at Pemberley; I just don't think she would become that spineless in spite of being in an early 19th century marriage (which was going to blunt some of her style anyway in my opinion). I was, however, interested in Tennant's portrayal of Darcy as a moody, control freak. While I don't like to think of him that way, I really cannot deny that there are hints in the book that he has those tendencies, i.e., "I do not know anybody who seems to enjoy the power of doing what he likes than Mr. Darcy.(says Elizabeth) He likes to have his own way very well, replied Colonel Fitzwilliam." (P&P vol 2, ch 10). Thus, while I don't agree with Tennant's take on the relationship, I can see where two such strong-willed individuals might have had some royal fights during their marriage! Also, I did like "Pemberley Shades" best of all; I liked her portrayal of Elizabeth and Darcy and their relationship in it is very nice.
: Rebecca
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What resource did you find these sequels. I am trying to read The Life of Jane Austen by John Halperin it seems I have to many distractions. I hate to ask but our library doesn't carry them.
Thanks Donna.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 18, 1996 at 17:31:50:
: :
: : : ___________________
: : : Oh yes, he definitely would want to look his best for Lizzy (especially since I think one of his motives for visiting Elizabeth was to propose to her again). What I was really trying to say was that I don't think he was the type of person to spend hours in front of the mirror. He certainly didn't spend hours on combing his hair -- throughout the film it had a "scrunched" look, which became him rather well!
: : : Bernie
: : :
: : : ___________________
: :
: : ___________________
: : I've read in some books that the messed-up hair was general during the period: and indeed, done on purpose: it took a long time to achieve a sufficient state of peculiar messiness/carelesness
: : Marsha
:
: ___________________
: What goes around comes around. The "grunge look" is back again.
: Ann
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The first thing I noticed in PERSUASION was the ponytails of
the Admirals crew. Maybe that it was a sailor thing like bellbottoms.
Donna
Posted by Stefanie on October 18, 1996 at 17:38:24:
: What resource did you find these sequels. I am trying to read The Life of Jane Austen by John Halperin it seems I have to many distractions. I hate to ask but our library doesn't carry them.
: Thanks Donna.
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I found all three of the books at my library. They had others also, but there was a limti on how many I could carry home on the bus.
If they don't have them at your library, you should check used book stroes because I know that Pemberley Shades is no longer in print.
Hope I could help.
-Stefanie
Posted by Paula on October 18, 1996 at 17:48:20:
: I am profiling Colin Firth (P&P's "Mr.Darcy") for a "Magazine
: Writing" course (and for possible publication). Allison
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I agree wholeheartedly with both Tommye and Rose's comments about Darcy's sensuality, and also the vulnerability and sensitivity. This is perhaps a modern-day Darcy--a few decades ago he probably would have been much more macho!
I'd say Firth stayed true to the complexity of the character as depicted in the novel -- the character is multi-dimensional because on one hand, he shows vulnerability but yet he also acts haughty. He shows complex feelings in that Darcy is attracted to Lizzie and resisting her at the same time. This is very different from the one-dimensional heros of most movies today, and perhaps why Austen is so popular now -- her characters ring true to modern audiences.
I think Firth's portrayal was wonderful -- I would have liked him to smile more maybe, but that's about it. He was a pretty sexy Darcy. I think this came not just from good looks, but because the character was portrayed as being very active (Lizzie also actually).
This "active guy" theme was throughout the movie and added to the sex appeal -- we see Darcy galloping his horse, going on walks, dancing at the ball, diving into the lake, fencing, etc. He's not just hanging out in drawing rooms playing whist!
Good luck with your article! Post it here when you're done!
--Paula
Posted by Marsha on October 18, 1996 at 18:05:11:
: : Cheryl:
: : Another language practice that takes me aback when I read it is the use of the singular possessive. When I speak of a relation while talking to my brother I always say "our mother" or "our aunt". But Jane will say to Lizzy "I must go to *my* mother" leaving me to say to myself "well, isn't she Lizzy's mother, too?" I know it's a little thing, but it irks me.
:
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: Me too! It does not seem to make sense grammatically or any other way, and I find it difficult to understand how or why such usage should have arisen at all.
: Joan, too
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I think it arose because when you are speaking of your mother, and yourself, it is an action including two of you and the claims of anyone els don't intrude: I'll attend to my mother: why should she say 'our'if it does not relate to her (I think I am muddling this even further)
Another example is Edmund's in MP saying something about 'my father' to Tom, but the 1st time I read it I thought that just meant that he was disaproving (Bertrams were planning a play) Now, however, I see it is just a strabge grammar rule!)
Marsha
Posted by Marsha on October 18, 1996 at 18:22:01:
: Although there was obviously much more involved in Lizzy's reconsideration of Darcy personally, there is also the suggestion that she was indeed affected by what else she saw at Pemberly. Besides his transformation, she may well have been affected by the concrete evidence of his estate, property and a glimpse of what her life would be as mistress of Pemberly. The Gardiners try to suggest her reevaluation of this perspective as well. She may have been more serious than she lets on when she tells Jane that she first realized she loved him upon seeing his lovely grounds at Pemberly.
: _________
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I have read somewhere that the grounds do play an important role, but not because of property, but because they sugest about Darcy's tastes, and mind, since back then the landscaping was very important, and thought to reveal the person's character: e.g. Lizzy thinks there is much more elegance at P. that at Rosings (thus obviously showing the tastes of their respective owners)
Marsha
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 18, 1996 at 19:49:30:
: Was looking at my map of England this evening...
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Speaking of maps, a British friend of mine sent me (via ordinary mail) a map that points out dozens of locations used in the making of film and TV programs (including P&P2). It's called "Vauxhall Movie Map - Film & TV Locations in Britain." (MOV/ENG.96 ISBN 0 7095 6500 3) It's put out by the British Tourist Authority (BTA) in conjunction with BAFTA. I would bet that travel agents pretty much anywhere ought to have - or be able to get - copies of it.
Joan, too
Posted by Janet on October 18, 1996 at 20:13:13:
:
: : Although there was obviously much more involved in Lizzy's reconsideration of Darcy personally, there is also the suggestion that she was indeed affected by what else she saw at Pemberly. Besides his transformation, she may well have been affected by the concrete evidence of his estate, property and a glimpse of what her life would be as mistress of Pemberly. The Gardiners try to suggest her reevaluation of this perspective as well. She may have been more serious than she lets on when she tells Jane that she first realized she loved him upon seeing his lovely grounds at Pemberly.
: : _________
:
: ___________________
: I have read somewhere that the grounds do play an important role, but not because of property, but because they sugest about Darcy's tastes, and mind, since back then the landscaping was very important, and thought to reveal the person's character: e.g. Lizzy thinks there is much more elegance at P. that at Rosings (thus obviously showing the tastes of their respective owners)
: Marsha
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How true, as today.
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Posted by Lana on October 18, 1996 at 21:55:22:
Get a grip yourself!!! This is Lana and you can take your snotty little butt-faced attitude and get out, for all we'll miss you! I am sorry, but you don't have the attitude to appreciate fine literature when it's staring you in the face!!! And, yes, to answer your question, I do!! Whan I was eleven, before this movie even came out, I had read all of Jane Austen's novels and praised the greatest authoress of all time, in my opinion. I have since then been to her house in England, and loved it. I have more respect for her than you ever did, and more than you ever will.
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