Return to Archives home
[ Index by Subject ] [ Index by Date ] [ New P&P2 BB ] [ FAQ ] [ Links ]
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 18, 1996 at 12:25:18:
: : In the scene where Lady C. is demanding to know whether Lizzy is
: : engaged to dear Darcy she says "it was his favorite wish of his
: : mother as well as of hers".
: : I know that this sentence means that both Lady C and
: : Darcy's mum wanted Darcy to marry young Anne De Bough but why was the
: : sentence written like that? Was it in fact a misprint in the novel.
___________________
In one of the back issues of Persuasions,
there's an artcle making fun of another setence on Lady Catherine's:
``While in their cradles, we planned the union...''
The article has a cute picture of Lady Catherine and Lady Anne sitting in their offsprings' cradles.
McMaster, Juliet.
"Lady Catherine's Grammar",
Persuasions: Journal of the Jane Austen Society of North America. 1986 Dec., 8, 26-27
Link:
Follow Ups:
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 18, 1996 at 12:32:26:
The stupid software dropped my image! This is the second time this has happened. It also dumped my link description text...
The image I meant to include will hopefully show up in this message.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Debbie on October 18, 1996 at 12:34:55:
: : I just saw that a new Jane Eyre movie has been made starring William Hurt. Anyone know anything about it?
: : Is it playing yet?
:
: ___________________
: I saw it about a month ago (in Aust). I also only recently read the book, but that was before I saw the film. I should say that I dont't particularly like the book. It is too gothic, moralistic/religous/pious, master-servant-ish, and involves too many forced coincidences for my taste.
: The film was quite a disapointment, because large chunks of the story are left out. Just about all the storyline after she leaves Rochester, the bit about setting up a school, and discovering her cousins, and the struggle with St.John are extremely sketchy or left out altogether. Its like they got half way through and ran out of steam. The earlier gypsy scene which I thought quite important, and the storm and tree being ripped asunder during his proposal aren't included either.(If you are going to be Gothic at least you should do it properly!)
: That said, the rest is good, and beautifully filmed. Amanda Root (Persausion) is a great Mrs. Temple (is that the right name?). Both young (it is Anna Panquin) and older Janes are well portrayed. Elle McPherson plays the beautiful, shallow, greedy woman that Jane thinks Rochester is going to marry, thus leading us yet again to assume that this is the real Elle.
: William Hurt is a wonderful Rochester. The film is worth seeing just for his portrayal. I've always really liked him and his work, which was the reason I wanted to see it in the first place.
: Hilary
Didn't much care for William Hurt or Charlotte Gainsbourg; on all other points, I agree. Amanda Root would have made a far superior Jane herself. The story itself was almost incompromprehensible. For fans of the book, the BBC version with Timothy Dalton and Zelah Clarke should be more to their liking. Clarke and Dalton are terrific, and it's extremely faithful to the original text.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on October 18, 1996 at 12:45:34:
: Anyone else having trouble envisioning Colin Firth in A Thousand Acres? I know he will pull it off admirably, but will we be able to stand it? Darcy, wearing a John Deere hat, at the hog roast? Worse still, Darcy in a pickup truck at the dump?
: I can just see how this all came about....Michelle Pfeiffer and Jessica Lange watching P&P2 over and over and over.....calling each other in the middle of the night: We're producing this thousand acres thing, we can have Darcy in it if we want to......we'll tell people he picked up the accent in Canada.
___________________
Sheesh!
Posted by Kali on October 18, 1996 at 13:07:43:
: In the contest of whom is more proud than whom, Mr. Collins may just be the victor. He does not pride himself on any of his own virtues or accomplishments, but merely on the basis of his association with Lady Catherine which exists simply because his purpose in life is to be her sychophant. Each time he meets various characters, his first comments refer to Lady C., as with Mrs. Philips, the Bingley sisters and Darcy at Netherfield, everyone he meets. We have probably all known people who boast of their connections or those they know, name-dropping in the hope of increasing their own value, but he plays it to the hilt. Not even the proudest on Darcy's side - Lady C. herself or the Bingley sisters - resort to this exercise. False pride is represented in a variety of ways by many others as well, including Mary, Sir Lucas, etc. However, Darcy and Elizabeth seem to be the only ones who learn to overcome it. Of course, Jane and Bingley do not possess false pride and so have not much to resolve, except interference on the part of others whom they allow to dissuade them from each other.
: _________
___________________
I agree with you that most of the characters have some sort of pride-related defects, and that Darcy and Lizzy are the only ones who realize their flaws and overcome them. I guess the problem with most of the characters is an inability to understand their own failings - which is, after all, perfectly human. Brings new meaning to the Delphic adage "Know thyself."
- K
PS - Yes, Mr. Collins is quite possibly the most baselessly self-appreciative person in the literary universe!
Posted by Amy on October 18, 1996 at 13:11:39:
:
The image I meant to include will hopefully show up in this message.
___________________
Here, I'll try and see.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 18, 1996 at 13:16:08:
: :
The image I meant to include will hopefully show up in this message.
: ___________________
: Here, I'll try and see.
___________________
Dunno. It's a free cgi perl script. And I don't know exactly how it all works. Sometimes it just goes fluey. Like, sometimes, it'll just put in a picture of a hippo or dinosaur or something.
Posted by Kali on October 18, 1996 at 13:20:40:
: : : : : ___________________
: : : : : : As for Darcy I think he had higher morals than most young men of his time.
: : : : : : But as young rich very handsome I have hard to think him totally innocent at the age of 28.
: : : : : : But I certainly do not think he went to the prostitutes of London with his high moral and fastidious nature.His remarks at Lucas Lodge on the very great pleasure a pair of fine eyes in
: : : : : : the face of a pretty woman .
: : : : : : and more his rather checky remark at Nethfield
: : : : : : about admiring miss Bingley and Lizzys figures maybe suggests that he was not wholly unexperienced.
: : : : : : (Or is my dirty mind going again?)
: : : : : : Anna-Karin
: : : : :
: : : : : ___________________
: : : : : I feel that Darcy was not at all experienced when it came to women. Austen does describe Darcy as being "As much awake to the novelty of attention in that quarter (in that quarter meaning him looking at Elizabeth's figure as she walked around the room) as Elizabeth herself could be."
: : : : : Paola
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : Well and I take the same passage in the text as a proof of that he maybe had some experience (but I do not think much since he was proud,shy ) with
: : : : ladies figures.But we all read things differently;);). But maybe it is my dirty mind.
: : : : But at that time and in his social class it would have been very unusual had he been totally innocent. But the only way to know is to ask him
: : : : and that would be rather difficult.Maybe it has to be aomething between him and Lizzy;);)
: : : : Anna-Karin
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : How could you take that passage as a proof that he was experienced? As for Lizzy, I don't think even she would have had so much courage as to ask him on his experience in that field.
: : : Paola
: :
: : ___________________
: : Well It must be my dirty mind again.but I have always thought that his reply about admiring Lizzys and Carolines figures to be rather cheeky.;);)
: And to that the double standards of that time.
: : So we can argue about it into eternity ;);)
: And Jane Austen is no longer her for us to ask and it is a little hard to ask Darcy
: : Whatewer was the case let us hope that the subject did not cause Darcy and Lizzy much trouble ;);)
: : Anna-Karin (with the dirty mind)
:
: ___________________
___________________
Sorry to barge in on this string of conversation so late, but the topic was so interesting I couldn't hold back.
As far as Darcy's interest in L's and C's bods - even if he isn't experienced, he's not DEAD! And if he is experienced, that doesn't mean that he's not pure of heart and full of good intentions. He's almost 30 - you live and you learn!
Later my friends,
K
Posted by Amy on October 18, 1996 at 13:43:13:
: Davies lets him keeep on talking to Lizzy so much as they walk to Meryton,that he sounds quite breathless. Thus giving a hint that he canīt keep up with Lizzy and is not a physically fit(?) (or trim?) person. Certainly nothing to Mr Darcy!! Uhmm.
___________________
He is played rather like an anxious eager-to-please puppy dog. Tongue hanging out and everything. Trotting around to trip up his companion, just for attention. Begging for favor. Leaping for a crumb. Delirous to have been let out. So anxious for approval. Slobbering. Bugging you.
Amy
Posted by hat on October 18, 1996 at 14:47:41:
: : : I just saw that a new Jane Eyre movie has been made starring William Hurt. Anyone know anything about it?
: : : Is it playing yet?
: :
: : ___________________
: : William Hurt is a wonderful Rochester. The film is worth seeing just for his portrayal. I've always really liked him and his work, which was the reason I wanted to see it in the first place.
: : Hilary
:
: Didn't much care for William Hurt or Charlotte Gainsbourg; on all other points, I agree. Amanda Root would have made a far superior Jane herself. The story itself was almost incompromprehensible. For fans of the book, the BBC version with Timothy Dalton and Zelah Clarke should be more to their liking. Clarke and Dalton are terrific, and it's extremely faithful to the original text.
___________________
Yes, Charlotte Gainsbourg did well, but was not my mental picture of how Jane should be. I caught the last bit of the last episode of the Dalton version recently. It did look good.
Hilary
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 18, 1996 at 14:58:41:
Since there are know pic. of CF at The English Patient site I guess his role isn't to big or
he is the mysterious patient. Does anyone know how important is his role.
Just wondering Donna,
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 18, 1996 at 15:14:55:
or
: he is the mysterious patient. Does anyone know how important is his role.
: Just wondering Donna,
___________________
I don't know the book. I don't follow the Firthlist so carefully as I follow the discussions here. I don't know much do I? Have a feeling he must be the patient. According to the Firthlisters Miramax says his pic is not up because they don't have a pic. Were he playing the lead, it seems they would make certain they got a picture. Apparently (also according to the snippets of the Firthlist I do read) Colin hasn't his own publicist at the moment, only the temp Disney rep for 1,000 Acres for which he just finished the location stuff outside Chicago and is now back in LA for the rest. He either does not want to push his image --- or something: finds it beneath him to be sold like so much sausage? Cares little for what Americans think? Doesn't know how? Doesn't want to be any bigger? Go figure.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Debbie on October 18, 1996 at 15:37:33:
: : : : I just saw that a new Jane Eyre movie has been made starring William Hurt. Anyone know anything about it?
: : : : Is it playing yet?
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : William Hurt is a wonderful Rochester. The film is worth seeing just for his portrayal. I've always really liked him and his work, which was the reason I wanted to see it in the first place.
: : : Hilary
: :
: : Didn't much care for William Hurt or Charlotte Gainsbourg; on all other points, I agree. Amanda Root would have made a far superior Jane herself. The story itself was almost incompromprehensible. For fans of the book, the BBC version with Timothy Dalton and Zelah Clarke should be more to their liking. Clarke and Dalton are terrific, and it's extremely faithful to the original text.
:
: ___________________
: Yes, Charlotte Gainsbourg did well, but was not my mental picture of how Jane should be. I caught the last bit of the last episode of the Dalton version recently. It did look good.
: Hilary
It's available on video from numerous sources if you're interested.
Posted by Ann on October 18, 1996 at 16:01:03:
: : Apart from how cute Darcy looks striding through the buttercups - I did wonder how many takes they had to do of this scene and whether they had to bring on special 'buttercup groomers' to have them looking 'unstrode through'
: : Pity Darcy wasn't even less formally attired - didn't they have speedos in those days!!
: : Cheers
: : Rose
: ___________________
: More's the pity the producers weren't more authentic. He would have jumped in the pond naked most likely, but would have put on some clothes to walk back to the house.
: Rebecca
___________________
But then Lizzy wouldn't have been able to see him in his wet
T-shirt...I mean shirt!
Ann
Posted by Rebecca on October 18, 1996 at 16:02:33:
: Last week, I would have agreed with you about reading a story about Elizabeth and Darcy that was sad and suspenseful. However, since my computer crashed last Monday, I have been feeding my addiction by reading some of the published sequels. While two of them in particular were really NOT happy, I still couldn't put them down. (Pemberley and An Unequal Marriage.) I guess that I just had to know that everything would be okay in the end.
: Has anyone else read these books? I couldn't believe the fact that Tennant actually had the Darcys on the point of seperation in both books!!
: I also read Pemberley Shades and it was better.
: -Stefanie :)
___________________
All right, I confess I have read most of the P&P sequels I could get my hands on. Like you I could not stop reading the two Tennant books (Pemberley, An Unequal Marriage). Basically, I did not like them because I totally disagreed with the portrayal of Elizabeth as somewhat whinny and too much out of the information loops at Pemberley; I just don't think she would become that spineless in spite of being in an early 19th century marriage (which was going to blunt some of her style anyway in my opinion). I was, however, interested in Tennant's portrayal of Darcy as a moody, control freak. While I don't like to think of him that way, I really cannot deny that there are hints in the book that he has those tendencies, i.e., "I do not know anybody who seems to enjoy the power of doing what he likes than Mr. Darcy.(says Elizabeth) He likes to have his own way very well, replied Colonel Fitzwilliam." (P&P vol 2, ch 10). Thus, while I don't agree with Tennant's take on the relationship, I can see where two such strong-willed individuals might have had some royal fights during their marriage! Also, I did like "Pemberley Shades" best of all; I liked her portrayal of Elizabeth and Darcy and their relationship in it is very nice.
Rebecca
Follow Ups:
Posted by hat on October 18, 1996 at 16:04:25:
: : I can't help thinking that JA would have loved the 2 scenes of
: : Lizzie and Darcy's unexpected meetings in the garden; the first
: : at Netherfield, the second at Pemberly.
: : Hilary
:
: ___________________
: There are actually three more garden meetings in the book,
: at Hunsford. ...
She chalks this up to wilful ill-nature or
: volantary penance, but it may in fact account for part of
: the reason why he belived Elizabeth was expecting and
: awaiting his addresses.
: P&P2 put in the scene with Darcy on horseback running into
: Lizzy, where nothing was excanged but cold silence on her
: part, and quite a bit of confusion on his.
: Ann
___________________
I hadn't realised that this could have been one of the reasons he thought she was expecting his addresses, but it makes sense.
Its always been a puzzle to me that he thought she was expecting his addresses, because we don't see any evidence, and although he is rich and proud, to me he doesn't seem to have been insensitive enough to have assumed that this was enough incentive for a prospective wife. We have to assume that he takes the same view as Lizzie when it comes to fulfilment in marriage, don't we?
And we don't see Lizzie encouraging him. Except, I guess, that he might think her expressing 'opinions that are not her own' is done to entertain people, including him. (But then why doesn't he count this as artiface, which he can't stand.) And the fact that she is happy to express her thoughts at all to him, and engage in arguments and discussions with him. One of the things I really like about the Darcy - Lizzie - Miss Bingly tangles is that Miss B is frightened off by any real exchange of thought; she gets really anxious and tries to change the subject. Darcy sees right through her superficiality, of course. Lizzie is the only woman that engages with him as an equal, so I guess he may reasonably have interpreted that as an invitation.
I think I've just convinced myself! Sorry if this should have taken place in my head rather than as a post!
Three other things:
I don't like that scene where D is on horseback, running into Lizzie. Maybe being on horseback was meant to emphasise how high and mighty Lizzie thought him, but I think he should have been on foot. I think he was trying to be somewhat amenable at this stage.
I think Lizzie was being particularly obtuse during this time. The reference to living at Rosings should have had her mind ticking over as fast as we know it could.
The other meeting in the garden that I liked but didn't make it into the film, was the one at Netherfield where the Bingly sisters try to snub Lizzie by squashing her off the path. They try to include Darcy in the snub, he tries to correct it, but Lizzie skips away from them all.
Hilary
Posted by Marsha on October 18, 1996 at 16:24:52:
: : : I just saw that a new Jane Eyre movie has been made starring William Hurt. Anyone know anything about it?
: : : Is it playing yet?
: :
: : ___________________
: : I saw it about a month ago (in Aust). I also only recently read the book, but that was before I saw the film. I should say that I dont't particularly like the book. It is too gothic, moralistic/religous/pious, master-servant-ish, and involves too many forced coincidences for my taste.
: : The film was quite a disapointment, because large chunks of the story are left out. Just about all the storyline after she leaves Rochester, the bit about setting up a school, and discovering her cousins, and the struggle with St.John are extremely sketchy or left out altogether. Its like they got half way through and ran out of steam. The earlier gypsy scene which I thought quite important, and the storm and tree being ripped asunder during his proposal aren't included either.(If you are going to be Gothic at least you should do it properly!)
: : That said, the rest is good, and beautifully filmed. Amanda Root (Persausion) is a great Mrs. Temple (is that the right name?). Both young (it is Anna Panquin) and older Janes are well portrayed. Elle McPherson plays the beautiful, shallow, greedy woman that Jane thinks Rochester is going to marry, thus leading us yet again to assume that this is the real Elle.
: : William Hurt is a wonderful Rochester. The film is worth seeing just for his portrayal. I've always really liked him and his work, which was the reason I wanted to see it in the first place.
: : Hilary
:
: Didn't much care for William Hurt or Charlotte Gainsbourg; on all other points, I agree. Amanda Root would have made a far superior Jane herself. The story itself was almost incompromprehensible. For fans of the book, the BBC version with Timothy Dalton and Zelah Clarke should be more to their liking. Clarke and Dalton are terrific, and it's extremely faithful to the original text.
___________________
Jane Eyre is one of my favorite books, and so I did not like the liberties taken with the story (I did not like the Orson Welles/Joan Fontaine version for the same reason), but I agree with Debbie in my recommending the BBC version: I think it is terrific! (Besides, in my personal opinion Dalton makes a better Rochester, and Clarke makes a better Jane)
Marsha
[ Index by Subject ] [ Index by Date ] [ New P&P2 BB ] [ FAQ ] [ Links ]
Return to Archives home
