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Posted by hat on October 15, 1996 at 19:46:59:
: We understand wanting wealth in the family but this woman is obsessed!
Mrs. Bennet drives me nuts, too. I have very little time for her.
But for another perspective, here are a few bits from Fay Weldon's book "Letters to Alice on first reading JA":
In JA's time you had to be able to afford to marry (dowry).'For this reason, and a variety of others, only 30% of women married'. Women 'lived well only by their husbands' favour'. The notion of marrying for love was quite new. The 'sense of sexual sin ran high: the fear of pregnancy was great - you might well estimate that half the nations women remained virgins all their lives'. (The average age of puberty was 18-20; marriage 25-28.)
'So to marry was a great prize. It was a woman's aim. No wonder JA's heroines were so absorbed by the matter. It is the stuff of our women's magazines but it was the stuff of their life, their very existence. No wonder Mrs. B, driven half-mad by anxiety for her 5 unmarried daughters, knowing they would be unprovided for when her husband died, as indeed would she, made a fool of herself in public, husband hunting on her girls' behalf. Politeness warred, as always, with desperation. Enough to give anyone the vapours!'
'Women survived ..by being pleasing and charming..or having a good,strong working back...' Writing and governessing were less usual possibilities.
Once you were married property and children belonged to your husband. 'If the choice at child birth was between the mother or child, the mother was the one to go.' 'Between 1650 and 1850 there were only 250 divorces in England'. Although there were exceptions 'you put up with the sex life you had, and were not on the whole ..expected to enjoy it...Contraception was both wicked and illegal...Abstinence was the decent person's protection against pregnancy'
'The fact that there were 70,000 prostitutes in London in 1801 out of a female population of some 475,000 indicates that your husband at least would not be virginal on marriage. He would quite possibly be diseased. VD was common, and often nastily fatal.' (Lets exempt Darcy from these ones, what do you say?)
You were 'likely to carry 1 child successfully to term every 2 years until menopause... 50%of all babies would die before they were 2... Every death would be the same misery it is today'
'Your own chances of dying in childbirth were not negligible and increased with every pregnancy. After 15 pregnancies (which meant something like 6 babies brought to term and safely delivered) your chances of dying were (Marie Stopes later claimed) one in two. Mrs. B, giving birth to Mary, must have been worried indeed. Her nerves were bad: she was considered ridiculous, poor thing, for saying so. (I take a very tender view of Mrs. b, more tender than her creator does. But I am looking at a society from the outside in, not the inside out.)'
Depressing stuff really - the 1990's aren't so bad huh? I don't know how much of this tenderness for Mrs. B came out in Weldon's P&P1. I hadn't read this account then, and I didn't care much for the production anyway.
Hilary
Follow Ups:
Posted by Pamela on October 15, 1996 at 19:53:06:
Was looking at my map of England this evening and what did I find but a place called "Bingley" in Yorkshire....Seriously,
I didn't make it up. It is located just of Leeds and Southeast of Lancaster.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Rose on October 15, 1996 at 19:59:33:
: : : At the Netherfield Ball in P&P2 we see a tortured Darcy -- trying to avoid Elizabeth,
: : : but drawn like a moth to a flame.
: No wonder he thinks she actually likes him (she does unconsciously as practically everyone on this BB agrees).
: : Rebecca
:
: ___________________
:
: I really don't think she does like him here, but she is flattered by his attention (though she would never admit it!). It is something of a triumph to have him ask her to dance for a second time when he didn't think her pretty enough on their first meeting. I believe Lizzy when she says she doesn't begin to like Darcy until she sees him on his own territory - Pemberley - and sees the change that has come over him as a result of her rejection.
: MaryH
Do any of you feel sorry for Mr Darcy when he asked Elizabeth to marry him...Perhaps I'm soft but I thought considering his wealth and prestige (and is rather nice looking...) she could have been a bit nicer!
Though thats one of the threads of the story isn't it - that a man can be changed from a pompous proud &^%$ to someone much nicer by a good woman!!
Rose
___________________
Posted by Pamela on October 15, 1996 at 20:02:47:
: : Have any of you seen The Buccaneers on PBS? Some of you P&P, GGables
: : etc. fans might like it. How about the scene where two of the main
: : characters (I don't remember their names) run off in the carriage
: : together? Anyone seen it?
: : jp
:
: ___________________
: Yes! I've seen this series ~ and enjoyed it immensley.
: I don't remember the characters' names or a lot of the
: other details as it's only aired once in my area...but I'm very much looking forward to seeing it again. I'd recommend it to those who enjoyed P&P2 as well.
___________________
>
I've seen it, and hope not to see it again. I may be the only one who thought this, but it was to heavy and depressing for me. The scene where Nan found her husband in bed with another man was more than I can take. That's why I like Jane Austen so much,good clean, romantic fun.
Pamela
Posted by Rose on October 15, 1996 at 20:07:23:
:
: : 1. Do you suppose the Gardiners were forewarned by Jane of Darcy's proposal to Lizzie before their tour of Derbyshire? It seemed too coincidental that they suddenly revised their plans to tour Darcy's neck of the woods in lieu of the lakes. They were so sly in their suggestions that she take another look at him and their conclusions about his motives in implementing the Lydia/Wickham marriage.
: No, the Gardiners were sensible and I'm sure that they would not have pushed Lizzy into it even if they knew. I think they were genuine when they expressed an interest in Pemberley - they believe the gardens to be spectacular and they knew that Lizzy knew Darcy, so they thought whe would be interested as well.
: : 2. I understand the assumption that the Lucases spread the rumour about Darcy and Lizzie's supposedly impending engagement, probably from Charlotte's implications. However, I fail to see her motive for this, knowing the wrath it would excite in Lady Catherine. Is it possible that the Bingley sisters could have surreptitiously planted this buzz in hopes of it getting to Lady Catherine, who predictably would attempt to put a stop to it?
: : I would be very interested in your opinions.
: I've often wondered how the rumor of Darcy's supposed engagement got to Lady Catherine. (I presumed it was Collins who may have spilled the beans). I don't think the Bingley sisters would have done it.. certainly not Miss Bingley, she was surprised when Darcy actually got married to Lizzy. I don't even think she knew that Darcy was in love with her otherwise she would not have said all those nasty things about Lizzy in front of him. I believe she felt that she had a chance with him. Although Charlotte may have suspected, I feel she would not tell Lady C before she spoke with Lizzy. In any case, I don't think Charlotte would have said anything, most likely it was her silly little hubby. :)
:
: ___________________
I thought that Miss Bingley knew Darcy liked Elizabeth - from when he commented on 'her fine eyes'. I think Miss Bingley was jealous and that was why she said all those mean things.
Rose
___________________
Posted by hat on October 15, 1996 at 20:13:49:
: : : Don't you think they could have dressed Bingley and Darcy a little bit better for their own weddings?!
:
: ___________________
: I thought Darcy looked a bit somber at the ceremony.
: Afterwards of course there was that wonderful beaming smile,
: but he didn't look like he enjoyed the wedding itselff very
: much.
: Ann
___________________
Yes, I thought Darcy's attire looked particularly daggy (this is an Australianism with various, often affectionate, meanings; in this case it means lacking in style) in the church, though outside it looks okay. I keep on wanting to make the waistcoat longer. He does look sombre, but then he's a sombre bloke, who has a feeling for duty, occassion, ceremony, passages of life and all that. I can empathise with not enjoying the ceremony, too. Another bit of evidence for the case of shyness!
The other thing that bothers me about this scene is Lizzie's make-up. It looks much too heavy, and there's something about her that reminds me of Mrs.B, which is a worry. Her make-up does seem heavier later in the series, after looking wonderful in Derbyshire. I also prefer her in the cream/white/lightblue/grey dresses than in that 'curry' outfit that someone in 'The Making of P&P' thought she looked best in.
Hilary
Follow Ups:
Posted by Cheryl on October 15, 1996 at 20:17:06:
: One of the most impressive features of the movie for me was the cimetography. I'm wondering, however, if there are any stills of Lyme Park, Cheshire (Pemberly in P&P2), Belton House, Grantham, Lincolnshire (Rosings) or Edgcote Hall, Oxon (Netherfield). If you know of any sites where such images might be obtained, I would greatly appreciate hearing of them.
___________________
The Making of P&P (of which we have been speaking a great deal of late) has some very stills of the estates used in the film. Yet another reason to buy this wonderful book!
Cheryl
Posted by kathleen on October 15, 1996 at 20:25:45:
: Was looking at my map of England this evening and what did I find but a place called "Bingley" in Yorkshire....Seriously,
: I didn't make it up. It is located just of Leeds and Southeast of Lancaster.
___________________
Perhaps that is the very place from which the Bingleys were hailed. They were a respectable family from the north
of England, you know -- would they have taken the name of the town or would the town have been named for them,
do you think?
kathleen
Posted by Rose on October 15, 1996 at 20:26:43:
: : : : Don't you think they could have dressed Bingley and Darcy a little bit better for their own weddings?!
: :
: : ___________________
: : I thought Darcy looked a bit somber at the ceremony.
: : Afterwards of course there was that wonderful beaming smile,
: : but he didn't look like he enjoyed the wedding itselff very
: : much.
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: Yes, I thought Darcy's attire looked particularly daggy (this is an Australianism with various, often affectionate, meanings; in this case it means lacking in style) in the church, though outside it looks okay. I keep on wanting to make the waistcoat longer. He does look sombre, but then he's a sombre bloke, who has a feeling for duty, occassion, ceremony, passages of life and all that. I can empathise with not enjoying the ceremony, too. Another bit of evidence for the case of shyness!
: The other thing that bothers me about this scene is Lizzie's make-up. It looks much too heavy, and there's something about her that reminds me of Mrs.B, which is a worry. Her make-up does seem heavier later in the series, after looking wonderful in Derbyshire. I also prefer her in the cream/white/lightblue/grey dresses than in that 'curry' outfit that someone in 'The Making of P&P' thought she looked best in.
: Hilary
I didn't like this ending as well as PP1. I couldn't help but wish Darcy and Elzabeth had at least hugged, or taken his arm as in PP1. Elizabeth had dark circles under her eyes which could have been better dealt with.
Why couldn't they have kept to the ending of the book - at least we see Darcy and Elizabeth married and living at Pemberly - after watching the video for 5 hours, another 15 minutes wouldn't have mattered!!
Rose
___________________
Posted by Cehryl on October 15, 1996 at 20:30:25:
Now if Mr. Bennet had told Mrs. Bennet right away that Mr. Collins was coming, she would have carried on for a whole month the way she does when she finds out he is coming that day. And that would have driven everyone crazy. But, as it is, the family only has to listen to her for a few hours.
: Can't we give the poor guy a break? I really do like him. (I've already admitted to a flaw in the film, don't make me admit that one of my favorite characters is mean-spirited!)
: Mary H
___________________
All right Mary, I will grant you that listening to Mrs. Collins fretting about being turned out into the street for a month would be unbearable. (In my grandfather's later years we had to keep things from him until the last minute or he would have worried himself sick.)
But, you must grant me that Mr. Bennet's *primary* motive in concealing Mr. Collins's arrival was to astonish and surprise his family.
"This aroused general astonishment; and he had the pleasure of being eagerly questioned by his wife and five daughters at once. After amusing himself some time with their curiosity, he thus explained."
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Grace on October 15, 1996 at 20:46:36:
: : : : Don't you think they could have dressed Bingley and Darcy a little bit better for their own weddings?!
: :
: : ___________________
: : I thought Darcy looked a bit somber at the ceremony.
: : Afterwards of course there was that wonderful beaming smile,
: : but he didn't look like he enjoyed the wedding itselff very
: : much.
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: Yes, I thought Darcy's attire looked particularly daggy (this is an Australianism with various, often affectionate, meanings; in this case it means lacking in style) in the church, though outside it looks okay. I keep on wanting to make the waistcoat longer. He does look sombre, but then he's a sombre bloke, who has a feeling for duty, occassion, ceremony, passages of life and all that. I can empathise with not enjoying the ceremony, too. Another bit of evidence for the case of shyness!
: The other thing that bothers me about this scene is Lizzie's make-up. It looks much too heavy, and there's something about her that reminds me of Mrs.B, which is a worry. Her make-up does seem heavier later in the series, after looking wonderful in Derbyshire. I also prefer her in the cream/white/lightblue/grey dresses than in that 'curry' outfit that someone in 'The Making of P&P' thought she looked best in.
: Hilary
___________________
: Daggy is now going to be my word of the month. Thank you, Hilary, for expressing exactly how I feel about the wedding scene. I don't want to see Darcy looking like a fop (as Firth did in Valmont) but neither do I want to see him so doggone daggy.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 15, 1996 at 20:56:52:
: Yes, I thought Darcy's attire looked particularly daggy (this is an Australianism with various, often affectionate, meanings; in this case it means lacking in style)
___________________
Affectionate how? Maybe as in the case of a professor type with a charming stammer and mismatched socks? Am I on the right track? I agree, Grace, I like this word a lot.
What struck me about the gentlemen's wardrobes was that they never got to vary their clothing. Maybe I missed something but it looks to me as though its tails, white handkercheif linen shirt and cravat for riding, hunting, visiting, balls, walking -- everything but fencing and indoor or outdoor bathing. Like a contemporary business suit only you have to mow the lawn in it too.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on October 15, 1996 at 21:05:49:
: :
: : : .
: .
:
: ___________________
: Whenever Mrs. Bennet comes on, I reach for my remote to turn
: the sound down.
: Lizzy does snap at her mother once: when Mrs. B says "And
: who should lay out money but her own Uncle?"
: Ann
___________________
Also, I remember that Lizzy tries to correct her Mother's understanding and horribly embarrassing remarks after Darcy's remark when he says that country society is "confined and unvarying." "Confined (is that the word?] and Unvarying!," she shrieked. "I'll have you know we dine with four and twenty families!"
Tommye
Posted by hat on October 15, 1996 at 21:05:56:
: : : : : Don't you think they could have dressed Bingley and Darcy a little bit better for their own weddings?!
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : I thought Darcy looked a bit somber at the ceremony.
: : : Afterwards of course there was that wonderful beaming smile,
: : : but he didn't look like he enjoyed the wedding itselff very
: : : much.
: : : Ann
: :
: : ___________________
: : Yes, I thought Darcy's attire looked particularly daggy (this is an Australianism with various, often affectionate, meanings; in this case it means lacking in style)
: : Hilary
:
: ___________________
: : Daggy is now going to be my word of the month.
Daggy is a great word, and fully deserving of being your word of the month, but I shall have to give you full details:
It can mean dirty, slovenly, unpleasant; conservative and lacking in style, esp.in appearance; or stupid, idiotic or eccentric. The last two meanings are often affectionate,ie. 'what a daggy thing to do'.
A dag is someone who personifies any of these daggy behaviours.
But it all derives from dag:'wool on a sheep's rear quarters, often dirty with mud and excreta' - The Macquarie Dictionary (Aust).
Have fun!
Hilary
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on October 15, 1996 at 21:12:38:
: In the last two weeks I have seen all three versions of P&P,
: Two versions of S&S
: Two versions of Emma
: and when I'm not logged on here I'm rereading one of them.
: I can't stop....I'm hopelessly addicted.
: Mich
___________________
Many of us here have been through the initial stages of the addiction and have progressed to far more serious stages. I would suggest that you now obtain from the video store a copy of the 95 version of "Persuasion" with Amanda Root. While on the first viewing you may find it disagreeably different from A&E P&P (known here as P&P2), keep on and most likely you will have to add it to your growing list of addictions. Frankly, I liked it best the fifth time.
Somewhere on this BB there is a list of symptoms of this addiction. Maybe Amy can tell you where to find it.
Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on October 15, 1996 at 21:13:52:
:
: : In the last two weeks I have seen all three versions of P&P,
: : Two versions of S&S
: : Two versions of Emma
: : and when I'm not logged on here I'm rereading one of them.
: : I can't stop....I'm hopelessly addicted.
: : Mich
: ___________________
: Many of us here have been through the initial stages of the addiction and have progressed to far more serious stages. I would suggest that you now obtain from the video store a copy of the 95 version of "Persuasion" with Amanda Root. While on the first viewing you may find it disagreeably different from A&E P&P (known here as P&P2), keep on and most likely you will have to add it to your growing list of addictions. Frankly, I liked it best the fifth time.
: Somewhere on this BB there is a list of symptoms of this addiction. Maybe Amy can tell you where to find it.
: Tommye
:PS
I don't know of a cure. Yet.
Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by Grace on October 15, 1996 at 21:20:54:
:
: : Yes, I thought Darcy's attire looked particularly daggy (this is an Australianism with various, often affectionate, meanings; in this case it means lacking in style)
: ___________________
: Affectionate how? Maybe as in the case of a professor type with a charming stammer and mismatched socks? Am I on the right track? I agree, Grace, I like this word a lot.
: What struck me about the gentlemen's wardrobes was that they never got to vary their clothing.
:
: Amy
___________________
: But, oh, those long coats they wore! Remember Darcy walking towards the house after meeting L. on the lawn at Netherfield?---- no dagginess there.
One more point about wedding attire: anyone know what the sprig of greens are that the women tuck in their bodices? Is this an old version of Something borrowed, something blue? (I don't have the Making Of ...book so excuse my ignorance.)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Candace on October 15, 1996 at 21:26:38:
: : : : : : Don't you think they could have dressed Bingley and Darcy a little bit better for their own weddings?!
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : I thought Darcy looked a bit somber at the ceremony.
: : : : Afterwards of course there was that wonderful beaming smile,
: : : : but he didn't look like he enjoyed the wedding itselff very
: : : : much.
: : : : Ann
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : Yes, I thought Darcy's attire looked particularly daggy (this is an Australianism with various, often affectionate, meanings; in this case it means lacking in style)
: : : Hilary
: :
: : ___________________
: : : Daggy is now going to be my word of the month.
: Daggy is a great word, and fully deserving of being your word of the month, but I shall have to give you full details:
: It can mean dirty, slovenly, unpleasant; conservative and lacking in style, esp.in appearance; or stupid, idiotic or eccentric. The last two meanings are often affectionate,ie. 'what a daggy thing to do'.
: A dag is someone who personifies any of these daggy behaviours.
: But it all derives from dag:'wool on a sheep's rear quarters, often dirty with mud and excreta' - The Macquarie Dictionary (Aust).
: Have fun!
: Hilary
___________________
I do wonder if I watched the same show as you all did? I thought all the men beautifully attired!!! My favorite of Darcy's clothing was the suit which he changed into at Pemberly (after his swim). I only wish that my own husband would dress like that!!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on October 15, 1996 at 21:37:06:
: Mary, I, too, like Mr. Bennett and, though after hearing arguments to support the mean-spirited cases I ended up agreeing, I viewed him today again and just believe that he could SOMETIMES be mean (like many of us are capable of being), but that he was, in fact, not a mean-spirited person. If he were truly mean-spirited, it would spill out everywhere, even towards Lizzy.
I have known people who married poorly but who eked out small pleasures anyway from certain aspects of the ill-chosen partners. Some of the people like to "get the other one going," and the perfect way to do that is to tease them. That is what I think Mr. Bennett does.
Even though he regrets his choice of marriage partners, I believe he had actually developed an affection for her
born out of years together. (People can actually come to find comfort, as it were, in a partner's frailties or idiosyncrasies, as could be argued Mr. Bennett did in hearing Mrs. B freak out for one reason or another. I think he would have been very shocked, perhaps even disappointed, if her reaction had not been as anticipated.)
Tommye
Posted by Zimei on October 15, 1996 at 21:38:45:
:
: : I love all these updates on my favorite Austenites! (FYI, I have read elsewhere that Peter Firth -- who was
: : Henry Tilney in Northanger Abbey -- is not Colin Firth's brother. Peter Firth did appear in the movie "An Awfully Big
: : Adventure" which also Hugh Grant and Alan Rickman -- two other Austenites.)
: : kathleen
:
: ___________________
:
: Thank you for notifying me. I do not wish to spread false information, surely. I had read that on the Internet Movie Database, though I'd never heard Colin Firth refer to an acting brother in any interviews. Where did you hear the information?
: Cordially,
: Raphael
___________________
The following info about Colin's family is from Friends of Firth...
He is the oldest of three children. Younger siblings, Jonathan
and Kate are also thespians. Peter Firth is NOT related to Mr.
Firth although this relationship has been reported by a
number of otherwise reliable sources.
Zimei
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