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Posted by Grace on October 14, 1996 at 23:43:54:
: 1. Do you suppose the Gardiners were forewarned by Jane of Darcy's proposal to Lizzie before their tour of Derbyshire?
: 2. I understand the assumption that the Lucases spread the rumour about Darcy and Lizzie's supposedly impending engagement, probably from Charlotte's implications.
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: 1. The movie might make you think the Gardiners were being sly, but the book makes it pretty clear that all their notions about the gentleman's interest in Lizzy were based on their observations of his behavior. They were surprised by all that they saw.
2. My own thought on Lady Catherine learning of the Darcy engagement rumor: Mr. Collins, hearing from Charlotte of her suspicions, then rushes to his patroness' side to offer delicately worded assurances that any such idle gossip that might reach her ears is to be dismissed as insupportable. His every word has exactly the opposite effect of what he intended - and Lady Catherine, now informed and indignant, decides to take matters into her own hands!
(Also, we might surmise that naive little Georgiana dutifully writes to her Aunt to recount every detail of her summer: "How delighted I was, dear Aunt, to finally meet Miss Elizabeth Bennet and to have the pleasure of entertaining her and her delightful relatives at Pemberley......."
:Grace
Posted by Ann2 on October 15, 1996 at 00:27:18:
But in the first pattern, anyone notice how he holds on to her hand (when they are four abreast) just a little longer than anyone else? True, this is before she speaks her first lines to him. Very nicely done I thought and she had just smiled at him when they crossed in the pattern. No wonder he thinks she actually likes him (she does unconsciously as practically everyone on this BB agrees).
: Rebecca
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No, I have not seen this, must have been to busy watching face expressions, but I will take a closer look tonight. Thank You Rebecca
Ann2
Posted by Ann2 on October 15, 1996 at 00:42:39:
: JA doesn't talk a lot about servants but they do get brought into most of hte stories in a small way. Mrs Reynolds in P&P gives some important perspectivie info.
:
: I bet a lot of bragging went on in the same way that office workers sometimes inflate their own importance by relating details of how important their bosses are.
: Amy
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Do you remember that Mrs Phillips had heard from some shopboy that Lizzy and Jane were no longer at Netherfield and she even knew that they had returned in Mr Bingley´s carriage!! They had no miniseries inthose days and had to find other sources of amusement...
Amy, now I notice that you have sorted out that wrapping in this comment area. How neat! I can see that you have sent me a test letter but as our mail server is akward, I have not been able to reach it yet. Terribly annoying I assure you.
Ann2
Posted by Ann2 on October 15, 1996 at 00:53:00:
: But there was a mention of second proposals that I really only caught for the first time on this read through that shows some more of Jane Austen's use of foreshadowing. Mr Collins understands that young ladies refuse a man the first time so that she may accept the second (or third) time they are asked. Lizzy replies, "I am not one of those young ladies... who are so daring as to risk their happiness on the chance of being asked a second time." But alas Lizzy, your happiness *will* depend upon being asked a second time.
: Cheryl
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Yes Cheryl, those foreshadowings
are what I am busy looking for now. Have mentioned "we need not care for his good opinion" and "she is not handsome enough to tempt me" in another mail.
Read somewhere that lots of Lizzy´s lecturing Darcy during the Dance, is echoing what she herself ought to bear in mind.About beeing careful not to jump into hasty conclusions and never be blinded by prejudice! I have also got the feeling that some of Mary´s tiresome remarks have some real
content that should have been attended to.Has anyone noticed?
Ann2
Posted by Joan, too on October 15, 1996 at 01:18:42:
: : : Follow the link below for more wonderful euphemisms.
: : : Cheryl
: ___________________
: I enjoyed it too. Don't know about politically correct though! Some in usage round here:
: Has kangaroos in their top paddock
I like this one particularly well - great imagery, and a fine excuse for addle-pated behavior!
Joan, too
Posted by Cheryl on October 15, 1996 at 01:20:48:
: 1. Do you suppose the Gardiners were forewarned by Jane of Darcy's proposal to Lizzie before their tour of Derbyshire? It seemed too coincidental that they suddenly revised their plans to tour Darcy's neck of the woods in lieu of the lakes. They were so sly in their suggestions that she take another look at him and their conclusions about his motives in implementing the Lydia/Wickham marriage.
Mrs. Gardiner grew up in Lambton, just a few miles from Pemberly, it is entirely plausible that she would wish to make a nostalgic trip into Derbyshire when they did not have enough time to tour the Lakes. The coincidence lies in the fact that Lizzy has an aunt who lived within five miles of Pemberly, but there are many of these delightful coincidences in P&P (the fact that Lizzy's cousin has Darcy's aunt as a patroness, and the chance that Wickham should join the ____shire militia which is encamped in the very neighborhood Darcy is visiting spring immediately to mind.)
: 2. Is it possible that the Bingley sisters could have surreptitiously planted this buzz in hopes of it getting to Lady Catherine, who predictably would attempt to put a stop to it?
I do not believe that the Bingley sisters are clever enough to have thought of such a Byzantine manuever.
Cheryl
Posted by Ann2 on October 15, 1996 at 01:22:41:
: : I think JA must have known a few Mr.Collin's in her lifetime
Davies lets him keeep on talking to Lizzy so much as they walk to Meryton,that he sounds quite breathless. Thus giving a hint that he can´t keep up with Lizzy and is not a physically fit(?) (or trim?) person. Certainly nothing to Mr Darcy!! Uhmm.
: : I agree. Her wit and humor are so wonderful as she presents this Mr. Collins. One of my favorite lines (coming after Charlotte's engagement and Mr. C.'s exit):
: The stupidity with which he was favoured by nature must
: guard his courtship from any charm that could make a
: woman wish for its continuance...
: Never mind that the same woman would be marrying him and have to spend her entire life with him!
Telling us what Jane Austen herself would never consider an alternative.
Ann2
:
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Posted by Cheryl on October 15, 1996 at 01:27:02:
: I think JA must have known a few Mr.Collin's in her lifetime
: The conversation at the dinner table seem like something a nerdy
: fellow would admit to in mix company.
: ciao Donna
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I love Jane Austen's description of him as a man with a "mixture of pride and obsequiousness, self-importance and humility." With such raging opposites in his character, he cannot help but offend, amaze, and, in Mr. Bennet's case, amuse, and the actor (David Bamber?) seemed to capture these conflicting traits wonderfully.
Cheryl
Posted by Cheryl on October 15, 1996 at 01:40:54:
: However, I still believe he had developed a fondness for :Mrs. B., and that it showed up in his pleasure
: at seeing her delighted.
: Tommye
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I think his pleasure came not from seeing Mrs. Bennet delighted, but from knowing that he had put one over on her again.
I really do like Mr. Bennet, Tommye, he is great fun to read and watch, but I would not have wanted to be *his* wife (but then he soon realizes that he does not want to be *her* husband. It all works out so nicely, does it not?
Cheryl
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 15, 1996 at 01:41:11:
: I agree. Amy's idea is mahhhhhhvelous.
: I even detect some wistfulness in his tone when he responds to Mrs. Bennet's effusion: "Three daughters married! God has been very good to us."
: "So it would seem," he says. "So it would seem."
: So much for happy endings!
: -Arnessa.
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I think Mich is a little hard on Mr Bennet. How was he to know that he made the mistake of his life in marrying Mrs B?
But to cheers us all up: given Amy´s hints on his ability to
write, and his new possibilitys(spelling?) to get out of the house to visit Jane and Lizzy. And he did say he liked his new sons-in-law, or he very soon will. And he would get to visit Darcy´s library, of truly prodigious dimensions we must understand. And get to meet other sensible people to give his life a new start, and maybe make him do something about Kitty and Mary. Care for them I mean. And maybe even
Mrs B... when she can stop worrying about the future...
Ann2
Posted by Cheryl on October 15, 1996 at 01:46:58:
: Of course, he would lose the only two
: people in his family fully capable of intelligent conversation or of understanding his droll remarks. Ewww. Just imagine
: what their table conversations would resemble?
: Tommye
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I know what you mean, Tommye. I would not want to have every meal with Mrs. Bennet moaning about missing her girls while scheming to fix up the remaining two, Mary spouting platitudes about forbearance and suffering, and Kitty pining for the return of the ____shire militia and prattling about bonnets. I would probably retire to my library, too.
Cheryl
Posted by ann2 on October 15, 1996 at 01:48:20:
: : Don't you people have anything better to do than scrutinize every
:
:
: ___________________
: Did anyone ever wonder whose hand it is doing the needlework in the opening credits? It's a very nice hand, but somehow it does not appear to be a woman's hand to me. My favorite idea is that it's Colin Firth's hand. He has very nice hands, if indeed that is his hand (and not a double's) helping Lizzy into the carriage at Pemberley. Maybe they looked at the hands of the entire cast, and just picked the one looked best or maybe they picked the hand with some reason in mind...
: -Arnessa (absolutely serious).
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I "love" your mail Arnessa and had a great laugh at your Firth suggestion, I use to linger on his hand(how dare you suggest that it might be someone else´s)in the support seconds. I have said earlier that I know where to look when they disappear behind that tree...
Ann2 (serious too)
Posted by Joan, too on October 15, 1996 at 01:58:54:
: I really do like Mr. Bennet, Tommye, he is great fun to read and watch, but I would not have wanted to be *his* wife (but then he soon realizes that he does not want to be *her* husband. It all works out so nicely, does it not?
: Cheryl
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However, to another sort of woman (one more like his second daughter, perhaps?) he would very likely have been quite a different kind of husband. Mr. B. himself does seem to have an awareness of this, and it seems to be the main reason that he questions Lizzie's acceptance of Darcy - he does not want to see her enter into a marriage (like his own!) in which she could not feel respect or esteem for her partner.
Joan, too
Posted by Cheryl on October 15, 1996 at 02:00:54:
We are treading on very thin ice here, ladies. Let us not let politics invade this island of civility.
That being said, Arnessa- Bill Clinton as Bingley? Sweet, shy, humble Bingley? Now I can definately see him as a Frank Churchill! (I can say that because I am a life-long Democrat!)
Cheryl
Posted by Ian on October 15, 1996 at 03:12:50:
G'day Joan, too and All Who May Be Having "Jane's Page" Access Problems,
: Ian, your image won't load - your server claims:
: Error 403 - Your client does not have permission to get URL /~ddibd/jane/pride.jpg from this server.
: Are you sure that you have the read/write permissions for your directory set correctly?
: Joan, too
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This is a great pity but the problem is not of my making. Well maybe once when one of my other pages included a "saucy" photo. But this page has been removed (for some time now) and so none of my pages now contain any material that would be unsuitable for children to read.
All I can say is 1) Clear your cache;
2) Turn off "Net Nanny" type software;
3) Tell me which browser you're using; and/or
4) Inform your server of this problem.
I implore you to carry these points out as my server, other servers here in Australia, various friends and colleagues have all gained access to my pages including "Jane's Page".
I dearly would love people to be able to gain access to Jane's Page so keep trying please.
Link:
Posted by ann2 on October 15, 1996 at 03:24:51:
: : :
: ___________________
:
: Gotta HAND it to you, girls...entertainment at its best here on the p&pbb!! Sarah
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Agreed Sarah and now that I come to think of it is not the whole story a matter of "Hands off" for Darcy and Lizzy at least, and Mr Collins.
By the way I would have loved to watch Groucho Marx resting his leg casually on Lady Cath´s arm.
Ann2
Posted by Ian on October 15, 1996 at 03:28:07:
: : Ditto to Joan, Too's Cheesehead reply I don't want to miss this image (mind you, I'm not being unfaithful to Mr. Darcy - I'm merely interested in experiencing the full force of your reply!)!
: : - K
: ___________________
:
: Ian: I guess none of us can get to your server. Where did OJ get her pic in the first place? Maybe we can link to it elsewhere on the web. It is a wicked picture if it's the one I am thinking of that you posted here some weeks ago.
: Amy
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G'day All,
As I see that everyone is having trouble accessing OJ's Page (if anyone is able please e-mail to reassure me that the page is still there!!!) then the image is at A&Etv P&P site, but not in a readily available form. It takes the form of an AVI or MPEG. If you take the trouble to download the movie then you'll notice various characters in situations such as Lizzy running, Darcy fencing, and Wickham kissing Lizzy's hand. With a suitable viewer you may be able to view the movie frame-by-frame.
Please see "Cheesehead? and Trouble Loading Image" comments at the foot of the P&P2 BB.
Posted by Gav on October 15, 1996 at 03:45:42:
: Well Lilian, I am an Aussie male, and I do enjoy reading JA,
: and will the adaptions as soon as I can get them on video.
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G'day All,
Martin, my message was in jest. Afterall if you're a bloke and you're reading this page then obviously you are a fan and are honest enough to admit what a great author JA was.
One issue though per Kali. Jane Austen was a pre-Victorian writer having been well and truly dead before Victoria rose to the throne. Try Georgian.
Posted by Lilian on October 15, 1996 at 04:33:26:
: : : I think JA must have known a few Mr.Collin's in her lifetime
: : : The conversation at the dinner table seem like something a nerdy
: : : fellow would admit to in mix company.
: : : ciao Donna
: :
: : ___________________
: : I personally believe that there are still Mr. Collins living today! :)
: :
:
: ___________________
: Nerd, geek, or maybe prude whatever you want to call him.
: There are I can say a few very nice nerds that I know. In general they are not all as bad as Mr. Collins. He is so
: What would you call him, spineless. What do you think.
: ciao Donna
:
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I agree although Collins has more than just a "geekiness" about him. He is also very silly and idiotic. You can be a geek or a nerd but not be as silly or stupid as Collins. (Especially when he thinks he is Mr. Hotshot for Lizzy)
I'm surprised that Collins came from Mr. Bennets side of the family, I would have thought Collins would suit Mrs. Bennet's side- ie. her brother.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Lilian on October 15, 1996 at 04:41:44:
: 1. Do you suppose the Gardiners were forewarned by Jane of Darcy's proposal to Lizzie before their tour of Derbyshire? It seemed too coincidental that they suddenly revised their plans to tour Darcy's neck of the woods in lieu of the lakes. They were so sly in their suggestions that she take another look at him and their conclusions about his motives in implementing the Lydia/Wickham marriage.
No, the Gardiners were sensible and I'm sure that they would not have pushed Lizzy into it even if they knew. I think they were genuine when they expressed an interest in Pemberley - they believe the gardens to be spectacular and they knew that Lizzy knew Darcy, so they thought whe would be interested as well.
: 2. I understand the assumption that the Lucases spread the rumour about Darcy and Lizzie's supposedly impending engagement, probably from Charlotte's implications. However, I fail to see her motive for this, knowing the wrath it would excite in Lady Catherine. Is it possible that the Bingley sisters could have surreptitiously planted this buzz in hopes of it getting to Lady Catherine, who predictably would attempt to put a stop to it?
: I would be very interested in your opinions.
I've often wondered how the rumor of Darcy's supposed engagement got to Lady Catherine. (I presumed it was Collins who may have spilled the beans). I don't think the Bingley sisters would have done it.. certainly not Miss Bingley, she was surprised when Darcy actually got married to Lizzy. I don't even think she knew that Darcy was in love with her otherwise she would not have said all those nasty things about Lizzy in front of him. I believe she felt that she had a chance with him. Although Charlotte may have suspected, I feel she would not tell Lady C before she spoke with Lizzy. In any case, I don't think Charlotte would have said anything, most likely it was her silly little hubby. :)
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