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Posted by Kelly on October 14, 1996 at 20:07:59:
: : : I only know the Al Gore version of the macarena.
: ___________________
: At the Democratic convention the delegates did the dance and Al Gore commented upon it at the beginning of his acceptance speech.
My apologies in advance to any over-sensitive democrats out there ~ my family (all good republicans) find it very appropriate that the Democratic Convention chose the Macarena as it's theme song. With the reputation of our President and some of his closest associates being as corrupt as it is...how true to character that they pick a song about sleeping around!!!
Posted by Grace on October 14, 1996 at 20:09:58:
: I think JA must have known a few Mr.Collin's in her lifetime
: I agree. Her wit and humor are so wonderful as she presents this Mr. Collins. One of my favorite lines (coming after Charlotte's engagement and Mr. C.'s exit):
The stupidity with which he was favoured by nature must
guard his courtship from any charm that could make a
woman wish for its continuance...
Never mind that the same woman would be marrying him and have to spend her entire life with him!
Follow Ups:
Posted by hat on October 14, 1996 at 20:11:45:
: :
: : : All I have to say about the proposal itself is: ick, ick, ick!
: : : Cheryl
: : ___________________
: : It is odious, but what wonderful inconsistencies Jane Austen puts
: : in Mr. Collins' speeches. Before Elizabeth says no (the first time), Mr. C
: : states that her wit and vivacity will be acceptable to Lady Catherine,
: : "especially when tempered with the silence and respect which her
: : rank will inevitably excite."
: : And, of course he praises Elizabeth's "other perfections" including:
: : her "natural delicacy"; her "modesty, economy, and other
: : amiable qualifications"; her "loveliness"; and the fact that she
: : is "uniformly charming" having just rejected his proposal 5 times.
: : Even if he were seriously in love w/ Elizabeth, he has merely grabbed
: : all the romanctic novel phrases that he thinks are necessary in a proposal,
: : not tried to praise the true virtues of our heroine. [Not that Mr. Collins would
: : ever read a romantic novel, of course.]
: : Oh, and on a different part of the proposal: I had forgotten that Mr. Collins
: : promises never to reproach Elizabeth with respect to the lack of money -- he must
: : have gotten that from Mrs. Bennet, no?
: : kathleen
:
: ___________________
:
: * Lydia's "Yes, yes, take him away and feed him, for he's been in our dungeon all morning" bit was delightful.
: :Eileen
___________________
I like the idea of Longbourn at this time being a dungeon! I'm sure it seemed like it to all of them for varying reasons. I think its probably "high dudgeon" though.
Hilary
Posted by Lilian on October 14, 1996 at 20:44:05:
: I think JA must have known a few Mr.Collin's in her lifetime
: The conversation at the dinner table seem like something a nerdy
: fellow would admit to in mix company.
: ciao Donna
___________________
I personally believe that there are still Mr. Collins living today! :)
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Posted by Ann on October 14, 1996 at 20:56:13:
: Aside from Lizzie and Darcy, Mr. Bennet was my favorite. Saying that I must admit I can't feel very sorry for his end in this story. As they say he made his bed now he must sleep in it.
: Mich
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He has slept in it for over 20 years; he does after all have 5 kids ;-).
Ann
Posted by Tommye on October 14, 1996 at 21:04:34:
: .
: Does anyone else have trouble listening to Alison Steadman shrieking? I must confess
: that while I have always assumed Mrs Bennet was foolish, silly, prattling, etc., I find the
: shrieking a bit over the top.
: kathleen
___________________
Definitely over the top. Frankly, I preferred Mrs. Bennett in P&P 1. Much more credible. What really is hard to believe in this story (or perhaps just the portrayals) is how Lizzy never appears particularly exasperated with her Mother, rather just seems to take her behavior in stride. I just would not be able to take it, at least not without a roll of the eyes.
Tommye
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Posted by Ann on October 14, 1996 at 21:06:40:
: (JN did a wonderful acting job in EMMA, however.)
: kathleen
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I thought Northam was way over the top in several of the
scenes, the Cole's party, the dance, and the proposal
specifically.
Ann
Posted by Tommye on October 14, 1996 at 21:07:55:
:
: : I don't think it's accurate to ascribe to Mr. Bennett the mean-spiritedness which he does not have.
: (snipped)
: : In other words, Mr. Bennett shamelessly manipulates Mrs. Bennett time and again for sport, and in this episode we see the pattern repeating.
: :Tommye
: And you don't find manipulation for sport mean-spirited?
: (I know, not fair of me to take these two statements and put them together, but I couldn't help it!)
:
: Cheryl
___________________
I see what you mean! However, I know too many people who are oblivious to their own manipulations, and, thus, don't really go about mean-spiritedly. But, Mr. Bennett is too bright to not be aware of his manipulations. So, perhaps he is mean-spirited, after all. Like practical jokers.
Tommye
Posted by Arnessa on October 14, 1996 at 21:20:16:
: Arnessa, my dear,
: Pray what are you doing on at this hour?
: Amy
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Yes, I usually post much later, after work. But since it's a holiday, Columbus Day, the paper's small and there isn't much to edit, so I can sneak onto the Web at various intervals when it's slow. Don't tell on me, please!
-Arnessa
Posted by Tommye on October 14, 1996 at 21:20:33:
: : I agree. Amy's idea is mahhhhhhvelous. At the end of P&P2, I feel so sad for Mr. Bennet, stuck in that house with such a wife as a primary companion.
: : I even detect some wistfulness in his tone when he responds to Mrs. Bennet's effusion: "Three daughters married! God has been very good to us."
: : "So it would seem," he says. "So it would seem."
: : So much for happy endings!
: : -Arnessa.
:
: ___________________
: Aside from Lizzie and Darcy, Mr. Bennet was my favorite. Saying that I must admit I can't feel very sorry for his end in this story. As they say he made his bed now he must sleep in it.
: Mich
___________________
Boy. I just realized that when Mr. B said, "So it would seem, ..." that he was most likely very half-hearted about it. I feel so dense! Of course, he would lose the only two
people in his family fully capable of intelligent conversation or of understanding his droll remarks. Ewww. Just imagine
what their table conversations would resemble?
Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 14, 1996 at 21:21:33:
:
: : .
: : Does anyone else have trouble listening to Alison Steadman shrieking? I must confess
: : that while I have always assumed Mrs Bennet was foolish, silly, prattling, etc., I find the
: : shrieking a bit over the top.
: : kathleen
: ___________________
: Definitely over the top. Frankly, I preferred Mrs. Bennett in P&P 1. Much more credible. What really is hard to believe in this story (or perhaps just the portrayals) is how Lizzy never appears particularly exasperated with her Mother, rather just seems to take her behavior in stride. I just would not be able to take it, at least not without a roll of the eyes.
: Tommye
___________________
Whenever Mrs. Bennet comes on, I reach for my remote to turn
the sound down.
Lizzy does snap at her mother once: when Mrs. B says "And
who should lay out money but her own Uncle?"
Ann
Posted by Tommye on October 14, 1996 at 21:23:30:
:
: : :
: : : .
: .
: .
: : ___________________
: :
: : You're right - I didn't mean to sound _that_ heavy-handed. Still, Mr. Bennet is bitter, and while he doesn't really hate his wife, he most certainly fluctuates between amusement, mild annoyance, and even exasperation when it comes to dealing with her (in the book it is written that he is so sardonic at times that it hurts Lizzy to see it). And to be perfectly honest, most of the time she deserves what he dishes out to her.
: : - K
: __________________
: On the other hand, our author does say that Mrs Bennet's "weak understanding and illiberal mind, had very early in their marriage put
: an end to all real affection for her. . . . To his wife he was very little otherwise indebted, than as her ignorance and folly had
: contributed to his amusement." Lizzie, also, sees that he exposes Mrs Bennet to the "contempt of her own children." He may not
: be bitter, but he is cynical and (I think) at least a little bit mean to his wife.
: kathleen
___________________
After reading all the comments, I must say I stand corrected. He was mean-spirited. I suppose I didn't want to believe it. However, I still believe he had developed a fondness for Mrs. B., and that it showed up in his pleasure
at seeing her delighted.
Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by Tommye on October 14, 1996 at 21:43:59:
:
: : I agree that Mrs. B is "half a bubble off."
:
: ___________________
: Follow the link below for more wonderful euphemisms.
: Cheryl
___________________
Thanks! I enjoyed it.
Tommye
Follow Ups:
Posted by Arnessa on October 14, 1996 at 21:49:09:
: I agree. But then again, I am a shameless Clintonite - Everything B & H do is thrilling. By the way, if Bill and Hillary were Austen characters, who do you guys think they'd be? Ditto for Bob, Elizabeth, and the rest of our political friends...
: In an incredibly weird mood,
: K
___________________
The Clintons: Mr. Bingley and Mrs. Elton?
The Doles: Mr. Woodhouse and Lucy Steele?
The Gores: Edward Ferrars and Catherine Morland?
The Kemps: Capt. Wentworth and Fanny Price?
-Arnessa (an independent).
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 14, 1996 at 22:15:57:
: : Well, you know the old saying about telling a lie; Make it big, repeat it often and people will believe it.
: : Wickham's big lie about Darcy is outrageous. There are clues aplenty that it is a lie and if Lizzy were not so angry with Darcy or so taken by Wickham's attentions to her, she would have seen them.
: : But Wickham is no fool. He is very careful to sound Lizzy out about her knowledge of Darcy and his reputation in the neighborhood before he begins his tale of woe. He also knows that The Big Lie is more easily believed if there is an element of truth to it. So he tells some of Darcy's good qualities which only makes Lizzy admire his forbearance even more.
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
:
: I agree. Wickham is really very careful and often says a lot of nice things about Darcy -- he's a good brother, a good landlord,etc. Elizabeth is just using him to feed her disappointment at Darcy's finding her only "tolerable." I know Wickham is supposed to be attractive, but I've always found him to be played smarmy from the beginning in the adaptations on TV. Of course, I knew the story before, but what was the reaction to Wickham of anyone not knowing the plot before they say P&P2?
: Rebecca
___________________
Maybe another part of the problem is that the actor (Adrian Lukis) knows that Wickham is a slime ball as well.
It must be difficult to act the part of a character who is always acting a part, no? (I do think he looks good in
The Making of . . . book.)
kathleen
Posted by hat on October 14, 1996 at 22:23:50:
:
: :
: : : I agree that Mrs. B is "half a bubble off."
: :
: : ___________________
: : Follow the link below for more wonderful euphemisms.
: : Cheryl
: ___________________
: Thanks! I enjoyed it.
: Tommye
___________________
I enjoyed it too. Don't know about politically correct though! Some in usage round here:
A shingle short in the roof of life
Has kangaroos in their top paddock
As sharp as a pound of wet leather,
or a bowling ball (courtesy Foghorn Leghorn),
or a sockful of cold spaghetti (originally the Goons,I think)
The lights are on but no-ones home
Or alternatively, in these economically tough times: the lights are off, but some-ones always home!
Hilary
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 14, 1996 at 22:28:03:
: : I think JA must have known a few Mr.Collin's in her lifetime
: : The conversation at the dinner table seem like something a nerdy
: : fellow would admit to in mix company.
: : ciao Donna
:
: ___________________
: I personally believe that there are still Mr. Collins living today! :)
:
___________________
Nerd, geek, or maybe prude whatever you want to call him.
There are I can say a few very nice nerds that I know. In general they are not all as bad as Mr. Collins. He is so
What would you call him, spineless. What do you think.
ciao Donna
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Posted by Grace on October 14, 1996 at 22:37:37:
: : : Love this (embroiderer's) thread! Do you think its a double?
: : : Hilary (Ab serious, too)
: : : PS: Good to be back! I appreciate the wrap around text.
: : ___________________
: : anybody know what crescenza (sp?) is? I know first hand what playing instruments very ill means. That was an line invented for the film that worked and fit the character and story, don't you think?
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: Do you mean crescendo? In which case its music getting gradually louder to a climax? Or is this double Dutch?
: I do think that line worked well, but right now can't place where it appears.
: And back to the embroidery, any of you figured out whose (if any) clothes they are? I'd guess the one with all the buttons is one of Darcy's waistcoats, but I just haven't had the time to check out which.
: Hilary
: BTW what happened to the shyness thread? Did it die a natural death?
___________________
: I always like to think the clothes are wedding finery. This brings to mind a point related to finery: Don't you think they could have dressed Bingley and Darcy a little bit better for their own weddings?! I know it was a simple ceremony in a country church, but I think the costume dept. failed us on this one.
Posted by Janet on October 14, 1996 at 22:53:36:
Thank you for this site which I have visited since the August showing of P&P2, tapes of which I have watched and rewatched, along with repeated reviews and comparisons of the book.
I have a few questions to which I would enjoy hearing your views. Please pardon me if this post is not in proper format, as I have not ever corresponded in this way, and already my first attempts resulted in several lost connections and, consequently, obliterations of this message.
1. Do you suppose the Gardiners were forewarned by Jane of Darcy's proposal to Lizzie before their tour of Derbyshire? It seemed too coincidental that they suddenly revised their plans to tour Darcy's neck of the woods in lieu of the lakes. They were so sly in their suggestions that she take another look at him and their conclusions about his motives in implementing the Lydia/Wickham marriage.
2. I understand the assumption that the Lucases spread the rumour about Darcy and Lizzie's supposedly impending engagement, probably from Charlotte's implications. However, I fail to see her motive for this, knowing the wrath it would excite in Lady Catherine. Is it possible that the Bingley sisters could have surreptitiously planted this buzz in hopes of it getting to Lady Catherine, who predictably would attempt to put a stop to it?
I would be very interested in your opinions.
Follow Ups:
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 14, 1996 at 23:22:36:
: : : Since it is said that the ball at Netherfield was on a Tuesday november the 26th.
: : : : and November the 26Th was a Tuesday in 1811.
: : : : So maybe we can think thatthe wedding was in late 1812.
: Well in fact I got the cronology from the P&P web page under the Jane Austen info web page it seem to have been written by Chapman and is maybe included in their edition of P&P.
: But it is not in my english Peunguin edition (in paper back.
: Anna-Karin
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Yes the chronology page is below
Link:
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