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Posted by Amy on October 14, 1996 at 17:54:02:
:I always thought that Mr. Collins saying that Lady C would approve of Eliza's wit and vivacity is one of Jane Austen's jokes (and an example of foreshadowing also), since we know that Lady C is really quite ambivalent about Elizabeth at Rosings
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I don't know. I think she was entertained and pleased with the gentile prettyish sort of girl.
::Lady C would hate Elizabeth's wit and vivacity were she around it more. Just my opinion
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But I agree about this part. It would have sheer torture for everybody, as Lizzy said herself during the proposal: "I am last person who could make you happy."
I loved the way Charlotte seemed to get off vicariously on Lizzy's pert opinions at Rosings.
Amy
Posted by Rebecca on October 14, 1996 at 17:55:55:
: At the Netherfield Ball in P&P2 we see a tortured Darcy -- trying to avoid Elizabeth,
: but drawn like a moth to a flame. In the book, he was more civil, friendly even. He
: approached her shortly after she arrives to make "polite inquiries" and he says more to
: her during their dance. I must admit that I miss the extra dialogue during the dance, and
: I wonder if it is necessary to make Darcy seem so very reserved and conflicted.
: kathleen
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Yes, although it's been discussed, this is still one of my favorite parts of the whole production. Darcy is definitely more at a disadvantage here than in the book, but the payoff is the wonderful faces both Firth and Ehle have during the dialogue--he is definitely more rattled as it goes on, but also gets caught up in watching Bingley. Also, as the Lisa link that Amy has so kindly provided us with indicates, his dancing does deteriorate. But in the first pattern, anyone notice how he holds on to her hand (when they are four abreast) just a little longer than anyone else? True, this is before she speaks her first lines to him. Very nicely done I thought and she had just smiled at him when they crossed in the pattern. No wonder he thinks she actually likes him (she does unconsciously as practically everyone on this BB agrees).
Rebecca
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 14, 1996 at 17:59:15:
: what was the reaction to Wickham of anyone not knowing the plot before they say P&P2?
: ___________________
: Rebecca,
: I bet you are right. If we didn't know how evil he turned out to be we might have found him more attractive. But I still don't care for the guy's looks, trying hard as I can to be objective.
: Who do you suppose might have been better? How about the guy who played Mr Denny? How about the guy who played Will Ladislaw in Middlemarch? Rufus Sewell? Or Colin Firth would have been good too. I'd have bought his line along with Lizzy. But that would leave us Darcyless. As so many of us have said so many times, can't picture anybody but Firth in the Darcy role now. Done deal.
: Amy
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In P&P0 the men were all just as handsome as the next I think that was one good thing about that movie. Mr. Bingley,Darcy and Wickham they were all attractive.
Donna
Posted by Amy on October 14, 1996 at 18:00:08:
Arnessa, my dear,
Pray what are you doing on at this hour?
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Rebecca on October 14, 1996 at 18:02:46:
: what was the reaction to Wickham of anyone not knowing the plot before they say P&P2?
: ___________________
: Rebecca,
: I bet you are right. If we didn't know how evil he turned out to be we might have found him more attractive. But I still don't care for the guy's looks, trying hard as I can to be objective.
: Who do you suppose might have been better? How about the guy who played Mr Denny? How about the guy who played Will Ladislaw in Middlemarch? Rufus Sewell? Or Colin Firth would have been good too. I'd have bought his line along with Lizzy. But that would leave us Darcyless. As so many of us have said so many times, can't picture anybody but Firth in the Darcy role now. Done deal.
: Amy
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I agree Firth has done Darcy. However, I do have think Rufus Sewell is very attractive and might have been better. Adrian Lukis is just a little too smarmy.
Rebecca
Posted by Arnessa on October 14, 1996 at 18:05:09:
: ___________________
: I am excessively pleased that Betty brought up the topic of credits, for I, too, felt imposed upon by meanness of the Emma footage. I fared worse than Arnessa and could not make out a single face, but then I did not record that showing and so had no pause button to employ. Was Mr. Knightly handsome, Arnessa, did he seem all that Mr. Knightly should be?
: Cheryl
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Well, the man I assumed to be Mr. Knightley was the one picking up a child in the 2-second promo. I concluded this because there is a scene where Emma and Mr. Knightley play with their nephews. But it could have easily been John Knightley, Isabella's husband.
Anyway, from what I could gather, Mr. Knightley looked like he had possibilities. He wasn't too handsome. He was balding in fact. But he seemed to have (how do i put it?) a commanding countenance. And to me, Mr. Knightley must have an air. He doesn't have to be a Colin Firth, but he must have an air. In fact, I think it's better if he isn't too handsome. Jeremy Northam as Mr. Knightley in the Miramax version seemed too slick at times.
-Arnessa
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 14, 1996 at 18:34:13:
:
: : ___________________
: : I am excessively pleased that Betty brought up the topic of credits, for I, too, felt imposed upon by meanness of the Emma footage. I fared worse than Arnessa and could not make out a single face, but then I did not record that showing and so had no pause button to employ. Was Mr. Knightly handsome, Arnessa, did he seem all that Mr. Knightly should be?
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
: Well, the man I assumed to be Mr. Knightley was the one picking up a child in the 2-second promo. I concluded this because there is a scene where Emma and Mr. Knightley play with their nephews. But it could have easily been John Knightley, Isabella's husband.
: Anyway, from what I could gather, Mr. Knightley looked like he had possibilities. He wasn't too handsome. He was balding in fact. But he seemed to have (how do i put it?) a commanding countenance. And to me, Mr. Knightley must have an air. He doesn't have to be a Colin Firth, but he must have an air. In fact, I think it's better if he isn't too handsome. Jeremy Northam as Mr. Knightley in the Miramax version seemed too slick at times.
: -Arnessa
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Mr. Knightly should indeed have an air -- he should be an attractive man, although he doesn't have to bee
too handsome. I can think of several possibilities for actors, but they are all too old -- unlike Jeremy Northam,
who is not really old enough. (JN did a wonderful acting job in EMMA, however.)
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 14, 1996 at 18:41:56:
: Mr. Knightly should indeed have an air -- he should be an attractive man, although he doesn't have to bee
: too handsome.
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Jeremy Irons?
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 14, 1996 at 18:45:51:
: Good to have you back, Hillary. BTW speaking of embroidery, anybody know what crescenza (sp?) is? I know first hand what playing instruments very ill means. That was an line invented for the film that worked and fit the character and story, don't you think?
: Amy
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To what are you referring? I lost you here, Amy.
kathleen
Posted by hat on October 14, 1996 at 18:47:16:
: : Love this (embroiderer's) thread! Do you think its a double?
: : Hilary (Ab serious, too)
: : PS: Good to be back! I appreciate the wrap around text.
: ___________________
: anybody know what crescenza (sp?) is? I know first hand what playing instruments very ill means. That was an line invented for the film that worked and fit the character and story, don't you think?
: Amy
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Do you mean crescendo? In which case its music getting gradually louder to a climax? Or is this double Dutch?
I do think that line worked well, but right now can't place where it appears.
And back to the embroidery, any of you figured out whose (if any) clothes they are? I'd guess the one with all the buttons is one of Darcy's waistcoats, but I just haven't had the time to check out which.
Hilary
BTW what happened to the shyness thread? Did it die a natural death?
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 14, 1996 at 18:49:50:
:
: : Mr. Knightly should indeed have an air -- he should be an attractive man, although he doesn't have to be
: : too handsome.
: ___________________
: Jeremy Irons?
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Hmmm. I like it. Authority figure, attractive w/o being too pretty, and able to act as well. I like your suggestion very well, very well indeed.
kathleen
Posted by Mich on October 14, 1996 at 18:55:09:
: what was the reaction to Wickham of anyone not knowing the plot before they say P&P2?
: ___________________
: Rebecca,
: I bet you are right. If we didn't know how evil he turned out to be we might have found him more attractive. But I still don't care for the guy's looks, trying hard as I can to be objective.
: Who do you suppose might have been better? How about the guy who played Mr Denny? How about the guy who played Will Ladislaw in Middlemarch? Rufus Sewell? Or Colin Firth would have been good too. I'd have bought his line along with Lizzy. But that would leave us Darcyless. As so many of us have said so many times, can't picture anybody but Firth in the Darcy role now. Done deal.
: Amy
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I did not know the ending before seeing P&P2 and from the first time I saw Wickham I thought him unattractive.
Mr.Denny, on the other hand adorable. He would have been a great Wickham.
Mich
Mich
Posted by Kali on October 14, 1996 at 18:56:05:
: Kali, you are very lucky to come from a normal family, I didn't think they were around anymore. I think for the time 1813, the Bennets are dysfunctional, but they seemed quite normal to me. No depression, suicidal thoughts, mania, only Mrs Bennet talks about here nerves and that is what I call hypochondria. So hats off to you Kali, would your family like to adopt a dysfunctional single mom and her beautiful almost 6 (10/27/96) daughter? Only joking. Laura
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Heck, come on over...Now that my brother and I are out of the house, I'm sure my folks would love some company! ;)
But seriously, I know what you mean. The Bennet's actually are remarkably together, even if not in solidarity of mind. They are very decent folks. But I certainly wouldn't trade my mom for Mrs. B in a thousand years!
- K
Posted by Kali on October 14, 1996 at 18:59:37:
: : : I only know the Al Gore version of the macarena.
: : : Cheryl
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : Cheryl,
: : How does he do it?
: : - K
:
: ___________________
: At the Democratic convention the delegates did the dance and Al Gore commented upon it at the beginning of his acceptance speech. He said, "I've been watching you on TV doing the macarena and if you will allow me, I'd like to show you the Al Gore version." And he stood stock still, not blinking or moving a muscle for about 30-60 seconds and then said "Would you like to see it again?" A great self-deprecating moment and commentary to all those who complain that he is stiff and unanimated.
: Cheryl
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I get it. Shame on me for not watching the convention (School, school, school!). ;)
- K
Posted by Mich on October 14, 1996 at 19:02:33:
: I agree. Amy's idea is mahhhhhhvelous. At the end of P&P2, I feel so sad for Mr. Bennet, stuck in that house with such a wife as a primary companion.
: I even detect some wistfulness in his tone when he responds to Mrs. Bennet's effusion: "Three daughters married! God has been very good to us."
: "So it would seem," he says. "So it would seem."
: So much for happy endings!
: -Arnessa.
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Aside from Lizzie and Darcy, Mr. Bennet was my favorite. Saying that I must admit I can't feel very sorry for his end in this story. As they say he made his bed now he must sleep in it.
Mich
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 14, 1996 at 19:04:55:
Our local PBS station used the "extra" 15 minutes after Moll Flanders to run promos for 5 or 6 other Masterpiece Theatre productions to be shown later in the year - among them Nostromo, in which CF is sporting a beard. I wish I had not stopped my VCR, since now I can't remember what the other titles were. Maybe they will do it again tonight?
Joan, too
Posted by Kali on October 14, 1996 at 19:05:29:
: : : I only know the Al Gore version of the macarena.
: : : Cheryl
: : ___________________
: : Cheryl,
: : How does he do it?
: : - K
: ___________________
:
: I am assuming it was danced at the convention, but I cna't imagine the act being nearly so inspiring as the '92 convention when they played, "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow." To me, that moment in time was a significant demarcation
: Amy
:
:
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I agree. But then again, I am a shameless Clintonite - Everything B & H do is thrilling. By the way, if Bill and Hillary were Austen characters, who do you guys think they'd be? Ditto for Bob, Elizabeth, and the rest of our political friends...
In an incredibly weird mood,
K
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kali on October 14, 1996 at 19:24:43:
: Actually, there's more than a glimmer in the book. The events get telescoped quite a bit in the film, and it does appear that Mr. C. has been invited by Charlotte both for dinner and to spend the night. In the book there are two additional days given to the flowering of romance between Charlotte and Mr. Collins, and Charlotte was definitely hatching a plan while pretending not to hear. Thereafter her "civility in listening to [Mr. C.] was a seasonable relief to them all and expecially to her friend." And on the following day [Chapter 22]
:
"Elizabeth took an opportunity of thanking her. 'It keeps him in good humor,' said she, 'and I am more obliged to you than I can express.' Charlotte assured her friend of her satisfaction in being useful, and that it amply repaid her for the little sacrifice of her time. This was very amiable, but Charlotte's kindness extended farther than Elizabeth had any conception of; - its object was nothing less, than to secure her from any return of Mr. Collins's addresses, by engaging them towards herself. Such was Miss Lucas's scheme;
- K
Posted by hat on October 14, 1996 at 19:35:46:
I missed a lot of this discussion but you might like this story:
A couple of months back I lent (yes, pushed) my P&P tapes to a
friend thinking she might be of like mind, and that a spot of
cold turkey might do me good. She immediately offered me all 4
Ann of GG tapes, telling me that she often watched them.(She was
being the more candid). I hadn't seen them before, though I had
read the first book some years back. I think we both thought ours
was the better by far!
I enjoyed GG, but it just doesn't have the power of P&P. It is
more narrative, and the romance is closer to sentimentality, where-
as the romance in P&P is much harder edged and based in making
hard life decisions, and the psychological developments are
traced in much more detail and accuracy.
I haven't seen "The Barchester Chronicles",(BBC, early 80's, from
Trollop's "Barchester Towers"), but my mother suggested it may have
similar qualities to P&P.
And my kids have a movie obsession with "Swallows and Amazons", a
film made in the mid 70's, an adaptation of the book by Arthur
Ransome. It is an excellent kids film, as are his books. Every
time one of the kids is sick I have to go and borrow the video
from the teachers library, and it gets pored over again!
Hilary
PS This text area doesn't wrap. Its the one at the bottom of the
BB itself.
Posted by Grace on October 14, 1996 at 19:59:25:
: : : Grace:
: : : Could we talk a bit about poor Colonel Fitzwilliam? (Stop me if you have already gone over this one.) Darcy has found his happiness but I fear that the Colonel is now left to marry Miss de Bourgh ( a fate worse than death, especially when you consider life at Rosings with such a tyrannical mother-in-law). I see the married Colonel constantly drawn to Pemberley to 1.escape the oppressive conditions at home, 2.find male companionship other than Mr. Collins,3. bask in the domestic bliss enjoyed by Darcy and Elizabeth.
: : Family duty and the need for money make this marriage inevitable. Am I wrong???
: : A few days ago there were some who were trying to marry the poor Colonel off to Caroline Bingley, but this is an equally appalling thought!
: : Joan, too
:
: ___________________
: Col. Fitzwilliam is too nice to marry Caroline Bingley, and Anne de Burgh and Georgiana are too close in relationship (plus I believe Lady C would want Anne to marry Col. F's brother, who would become an Earl).
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: Lady Catherine would definitely want Anne to marry the future Earl, but I doubt that even Lady C could successfully promote that match. The future Earl, unlike his brother, can afford to marry where he chooses. He probably would have scores of beautiful women throwing themselves at him (just as I imagine Darcy experienced - evidence, Caroline). In seeking a bride, he must also concern himself with finding a healthy woman capable of giving him sons - since that is so vital to the preservation of the family title and land.
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