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Posted by Amy on October 13, 1996 at 11:10:55:
only Doris movie I like: Teacher's Pet with Clark Gable. ...another newspaper picture in which Kate Hepburn and Spencer Tracy both write for the same paper
: ___________________
: Woman of the year 1942.
: ciao Donna
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Michael Kanin had a hand in both scripts. Link below to Internet Movie DB
Link:
Posted by Katherine on October 13, 1996 at 14:15:09:
: : Amy - ALMOST perfect. In the spirit of the man, don't we need the perfect illustration....
: ___________________
:
: Well, yes.
Whoooaaa Amy, I'm with you until you get to the Macarena part..that I fear is too much. I *am* taken with the idea of the group sing (can we wear pelisses?)
I was just suggesting a sort of singing And waltzing hippo picture. However if we really must go the the MR. Mys. H.C.Fan and Discussion page I'm in.
Katherine
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Posted by kathleen on October 13, 1996 at 14:36:19:
: : We understand wanting wealth in the family but this woman is obsessed!
: : . . . .What a nut!
: ___________________
:
: Mrs. Bennet _is_ obsessed. Her purpose in life, as the mother of five unmarried daughters with virtually no dowry, is to get them all married. It's ironic in her attempts to assure her daughters' happiness she either makes them miserable or fails completely to comprehend their needs.
: - K
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Indeed! Jane Austen describes her as "a woman of mean understanding, little information,
and uncertain temper. . . . The business of her life was to get her daughters married; its
solace was visiting and news."
That says it all.
kathleen
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Posted by kathleen on October 13, 1996 at 14:52:08:
: All I have to say about the proposal itself is: ick, ick, ick!
: Cheryl
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It is odious, but what wonderful inconsistencies Jane Austen puts
in Mr. Collins' speeches. Before Elizabeth says no (the first time), Mr. C
states that her wit and vivacity will be acceptable to Lady Catherine,
"especially when tempered with the silence and respect which her
rank will inevitably excite."
And, of course he praises Elizabeth's "other perfections" including:
her "natural delicacy"; her "modesty, economy, and other
amiable qualifications"; her "loveliness"; and the fact that she
is "uniformly charming" having just rejected his proposal 5 times.
Even if he were seriously in love w/ Elizabeth, he has merely grabbed
all the romanctic novel phrases that he thinks are necessary in a proposal,
not tried to praise the true virtues of our heroine. [Not that Mr. Collins would
ever read a romantic novel, of course.]
Oh, and on a different part of the proposal: I had forgotten that Mr. Collins
promises never to reproach Elizabeth with respect to the lack of money -- he must
have gotten that from Mrs. Bennet, no?
kathleen
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Posted by Raphael on October 13, 1996 at 15:17:10:
: I thought I heard she was working at Stratsford. Did she already finish her season at Stratsford or is she acting in both?
: Paola
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Most actors can juggle TV/stage work simultaneously with film shoots. I don't know how large a part she has in Wilde, but it is a principal one. We'll see. I'm not sure what her current RSC work is, though I believe I'd heard she was in a couple stage plays for '96/'97 season. Perhaps others know more.
Incidentally, her other film, Paradise Road, is in post-production somewhere or other, so we have plenty of work to look forward to seeing her in.
Cordially,
Raphael
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Posted by Paola on October 13, 1996 at 16:23:01:
:
: : I thought I heard she was working at Stratsford. Did she already finish her season at Stratsford or is she acting in both?
: : Paola
:
: ___________________
: Most actors can juggle TV/stage work simultaneously with film shoots. I don't know how large a part she has in Wilde, but it is a principal one. We'll see. I'm not sure what her current RSC work is, though I believe I'd heard she was in a couple stage plays for '96/'97 season. Perhaps others know more.
: Incidentally, her other film, Paradise Road, is in post-production somewhere or other, so we have plenty of work to look forward to seeing her in.
: Cordially,
: Raphael
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While we are in the subject I might as well ask what the other Pride and Prejudice actors are engaged in at the present time? I was also wondering if anyone knows if A&E will be airing The Making of Pride and Prejudice soon, I'd really love to see it.
Paola
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Posted by Kali on October 13, 1996 at 16:56:57:
: This week's chapters open with Mr. Collins's arrival on the scene. We have lately talked a great deal of Mr. Collins so I would like to dwell upon Mr. Bennet's reaction to the visitor.
: Mr. Bennet's method of "pulling a fast one" on his family where Mr. Collins is concerned, while amusing to read, must have been vexing for his family. He receives a letter from Mr. Collins, considers it a matter of "some urgency" but waits two weeks to reply! So for a month he has known Mr. Collins was coming, but declines to tell his family until the very morning of his arrival. I would be upset, especially if I were Mrs. Bennet who had to make arrangements for company on a few hours notice. But this gives us a great glimpse into Mr. Bennet's character; he loves to have secrets, he loves to astonish his family and have them importune him with a thousand questions (note also his visit to Mr. Bingley and the delight he has in springing that on the family.) This is one of the ways Mr. Bennet amuses himself, but it could be tiresome being married to such a man.
: Well, Mr. Collins arrives with Mr. Bennet in great expectation of being terribly amused by him. We find that "all his expectations were fully answered. His cousin was as absurd as he had hoped." But by tea time Mr. Bennet is tiring of him and by the next morning is "anxious to get rid of him and have his library to himself." The novelty of Mr. Collins soons wears thin and now he has to put up with an unpleasant guest for another 10 days. Serves him right, I say. I only hope Mr. Collins left Lizzy's side several times a day to woo the father in his library.
: Cheryl
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Yeah, I think Mr. B likes to punish Mrs. B for causing the lapse in his judgement which brought them together. He certainly likes to see her wig out. Perhaps he is interested in playing Mr. C and Mrs. B against eachother to punish them both- I can assume that he knows how the visit will play out, and how annoyed the entire family will be with him by the time he leaves (Mrs. B even more than before, since he leaves without engagement to one of her daughters...). Springing the news on everyone so suddenly makes the situation that much more confusing and thereby, the main players more amusingly addlepated.
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Posted by Eileen on October 13, 1996 at 17:04:17:
:
: : All I have to say about the proposal itself is: ick, ick, ick!
: : Cheryl
: ___________________
: It is odious, but what wonderful inconsistencies Jane Austen puts
: in Mr. Collins' speeches. Before Elizabeth says no (the first time), Mr. C
: states that her wit and vivacity will be acceptable to Lady Catherine,
: "especially when tempered with the silence and respect which her
: rank will inevitably excite."
: And, of course he praises Elizabeth's "other perfections" including:
: her "natural delicacy"; her "modesty, economy, and other
: amiable qualifications"; her "loveliness"; and the fact that she
: is "uniformly charming" having just rejected his proposal 5 times.
: Even if he were seriously in love w/ Elizabeth, he has merely grabbed
: all the romanctic novel phrases that he thinks are necessary in a proposal,
: not tried to praise the true virtues of our heroine. [Not that Mr. Collins would
: ever read a romantic novel, of course.]
: Oh, and on a different part of the proposal: I had forgotten that Mr. Collins
: promises never to reproach Elizabeth with respect to the lack of money -- he must
: have gotten that from Mrs. Bennet, no?
: kathleen
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*And what about the post-proposal uproar? I thought that the screen-writer's insertion of of Lydia's "Yes, yes, take him away and feed him, for he's been in our dungeon all morning" bit was delightful. And what was that look that Charlotte gets right afterwards? It looks like she's got something up her sleeve already. I did not get the impression that Charlotte's intent, if there was ever a very strong one, was too noticeable in the book at that point.
:Eileen
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Posted by Kali on October 13, 1996 at 17:07:52:
: Don't you people have anything better to do than scrutinize every
: facet of this movie? I'm glad that there are some intellectuals &
: Austen fans on the net, but is it really necessary to dissect
: the movie so much? For example, "so & so's voice was dubbed when he/she
: said..." "Oh, you noticed that too." Are you going to discuss the
: closing credits next and exactly how the character generator
: produced such lovely lettering? This BB is nice, but please, keep
: things in perspective.
___________________
I'm a student. I am made to waste time. Would you rather have me goof off over at, say, The Amazing FishCam site? ;)
- K
Posted by Joan, too on October 13, 1996 at 17:15:06:
: Amy:
: And with a little alteration could The Macarena be done to it? Joan, too, you are the musician. What if you changed the signature to 2/2. Would that do it?
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I'm sorry, but although the proposed activities would appear to be quite amusing, I have not the pleasure of knowing the tune in question. However, there are others whose bios have indicated some degree of musical accomplishment; perhaps one of them will venture an opinion?
Joan, too
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Posted by Joan, too on October 13, 1996 at 17:35:05:
: for he's been in our dungeon all morning"
Actually, it is "high dudgeon" that Mr. C. has been in all morning, "dugeon" being "an emotional response to a slight or indignity; a feeling of offense, resentment, anger" - a perfect term to describe Mr. C.'s feelings, since he has only fancied himself to be in love with Lizzie, and her rejection of his proposal has not injured his heart, but rather his pride.
Joan, too
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Posted by Joan, too on October 13, 1996 at 17:58:55:
: Amy:
: How would Mr Collins have gotten his reports that the sisters were handsome and amiable?
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I don't think that he necessarily had any reports at all. In his letter he does not specify "handsome" and I imagine that his calling the daughters "amiable" probably falls into the category of "those delicate compliments which are always acceptable to ladies."
Joan, too
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Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 13, 1996 at 18:11:02:
: ___________________
: : As for Darcy I think he had higher morals than most young men of his time.
: : But as young rich very handsome I have hard to think him totally innocent at the age of 28.
: : But I certainly do not think he went to the prostitutes of London with his high moral and fastidious nature.His remarks at Lucas Lodge on the very great pleasure a pair of fine eyes in
: : the face of a pretty woman .
: : and more his rather checky remark at Nethfield
: : about admiring miss Bingley and Lizzys figures maybe suggests that he was not wholly unexperienced.
: : (Or is my dirty mind going again?)
: : Anna-Karin
:
: ___________________
: I feel that Darcy was not at all experienced when it came to women. Austen does describe Darcy as being "As much awake to the novelty of attention in that quarter (in that quarter meaning him looking at Elizabeth's figure as she walked around the room) as Elizabeth herself could be."
: Paola
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Well and I take the same passage in the text as a proof of that he maybe had some experience (but I do not think much since he was proud,shy ) with
ladies figures.But we all read things differently;);). But maybe it is my dirty mind.
But at that time and in his social class it would have been very unusual had he been totally innocent. But the only way to know is to ask him
and that would be rather difficult.Maybe it has to be aomething between him and Lizzy;);)
Anna-Karin
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Posted by Kali on October 13, 1996 at 18:23:06:
: : Amy:
: : How would Mr Collins have gotten his reports that the sisters were handsome and amiable?
:
: ___________________
: I don't think that he necessarily had any reports at all. In his letter he does not specify "handsome" and I imagine that his calling the daughters "amiable" probably falls into the category of "those delicate compliments which are always acceptable to ladies."
: Joan, too
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Sounds very plausible. He was probably coming to scope out the view, figuring that at least one out of five would be suitable for his needs.
- K
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Posted by Amy on October 13, 1996 at 19:01:52:
: : : How would Mr Collins have gotten his reports that the sisters were handsome and amiable?
_____________
: : I don't think that he necessarily had any reports at all.
__________________
: Sounds very plausible.
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This is something I would not have remembered either after seeing the film so many times and forgetting what is in the novel. That's why this virtual read is so helpful. I suppose the answer is that England -- at that time in those circles -- was a pretty small place, though the Bennets had to be told all about Lady C and she was an easy distance away.
The advance reports are mentioned in two occasions actually :
From Chapter 13
He had not been long seated
before he complimented Mrs. Bennet on having so fine a family
of daughters, said he had heard much of their beauty, but that,
in this instance, fame had fallen short of the truth; and
added, that he did not doubt her seeing them all in due time
well disposed of in marriage.
From Chapter 15
Having now a good house and very sufficient income, he intended
to marry; and in seeking a reconciliation with the Longbourn
family he had a wife in view, as he meant to chuse one of the
daughters, if he found them as handsome and amiable as they
were represented by common report. This was his plan of amends
-- of atonement -- for inheriting their father's estate; and he
thought it an excellent one, full of eligibility and
suitableness, and excessively generous and disinterested on his
own part.His plan did not vary on seeing them.
Thank goodness for electronic texts. I searched for the word "report," which would be a very good thing to do if someone were analyzing gossip in Austen. The word pops up constantly. The other reference was found after searching on handsome, amiable and finally beauty.
Amy
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Posted by Ann on October 13, 1996 at 19:02:17:
: While we are in the subject I might as well ask what the other Pride and Prejudice actors are engaged in at the present time? I was also wondering if anyone knows if A&E will be airing The Making of Pride and Prejudice soon, I'd really love to see it.
: Paola
___________________
According to the Friends of Firth web site, Colin is
currently in the US working on Jane Smiley's "Thousand Acres"
(a modern interpretation of King Lear.)
Ann
Posted by Kali on October 13, 1996 at 19:07:05:
: : Amy:
: : And with a little alteration could The Macarena be done to it? Joan, too, you are the musician. What if you changed the signature to 2/2. Would that do it?
:
: ___________________
: I'm sorry, but although the proposed activities would appear to be quite amusiaccomplishment; perhaps one of them will venture an opinion?
: Joan, too
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Consider your self VERY lucky.
- K
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Posted by Tommye on October 13, 1996 at 19:13:50:
.
: ___________________
:
: Yeah, I think Mr. B likes to punish Mrs. B for causing the lapse in his judgement which brought them together. He certainly likes to see her wig out. Perhaps he is interested in playing Mr. C and Mrs. B against eachother to punish them both- I can assume that he knows how the visit will play out, and how annoyed the entire family will be with him by the time he leaves (Mrs. B even more than before, since he leaves without engagement to one of her daughters...). Springing the news on everyone so suddenly makes the situation that much more confusing and thereby, the main players more amusingly addlepated.
__
_________________
I don't think it's accurate to ascribe to Mr. Bennett the mean-spiritedness which he does not have. For my part, I think Mr. Bennett has found a way to "eke" out some enjoyment from his ill-conceived marriage with Mrs. B. That is, he enjoys getting her excited or riled (pleasantly or even negatively) with anticipation of the resolution. In other words, Mr. Bennett shamelessly manipulates Mrs. Bennett time and again for sport, and in this episode we see the pattern repeating. But, we have also experienced his contentment, even delight, with resolving such situations to her great pleasure (as in the case of the Bingley visit.) I believe Mr. Bennett had a fondness for his ditsy wife, and as in the case of many husbands, enjoyed seeing her happy.
For what it's worth,
Tommye
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Posted by Tommye on October 13, 1996 at 19:19:28:
:
: : : We understand wanting wealth in the family but this woman is obsessed!
: : : . . . .What a nut!
: : ___________________
: :
: : Mrs. Bennet _is_ obsessed. Her purpose in life, as the mother of five unmarried daughters with virtually no dowry, is to get them all married. It's ironic in her attempts to assure her daughters' happiness she either makes them miserable or fails completely to comprehend their needs.
: : - K
: ___________________
: Indeed! Jane Austen describes her as "a woman of mean understanding, little information,
: and uncertain temper. . . . The business of her life was to get her daughters married; its
: solace was visiting and news."
: That says it all.
: kathleen
___________________
I agree that Mrs. B is "half a bubble off." Being the mother of two daughters myself, one who is 24 years old, I can empathize with Mrs. B's obsessive concern for the welfare of her daughters. She obviously doesn't have a clue, nor does she care about, the specific emotional or personality needs of her various daughters. People did not live all that long in those days, and she was driven to get them taken care of before Mr. Bennett bit the dust.
Tommye
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Posted by Tommye on October 13, 1996 at 19:25:46:
I've been away another week, so I'm slightly obviously to what's being discussing (though it appears to be the book!). However, I have noticed something in my last several viewings of P&P2 which I haven't seen discussed. Mrs. Bennett defers, from the beginning to Lydia. First noticed: Allowing Lydia to take Kitty's favorite hat! Why? Because Lydia wanted it! She was pretty nasty to Kitty about it, too. There are quite a few examples of this obvious favoritism, concluding with her tears at Lydia's departure with Wickham after their post-marriage visit. I also recall seeing lots of Mrs. B's tears shed over Lydia, something which I did NOT see when, for instance, Jane appeared to have been dumped by Bingley.
I think Mrs. Bennett knew that Lizzy and Jane were her mental superiors and, therefore, spent time and loved more the daughter who most reminded her of herself. What say Ye?
Tommye
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