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Posted by Paola on October 12, 1996 at 13:26:48:
:
: : : Grace:
: : : Could we talk a bit about poor Colonel Fitzwilliam? (Stop me if you have already gone over this one.) Darcy has found his happiness but I fear that the Colonel is now left to marry Miss de Bourgh ( a fate worse than death, especially when you consider life at Rosings with such a tyrannical mother-in-law). I see the married Colonel constantly drawn to Pemberley to 1.escape the oppressive conditions at home, 2.find male companionship other than Mr. Collins,3. bask in the domestic bliss enjoyed by Darcy and Elizabeth.
: : Family duty and the need for money make this marriage inevitable. Am I wrong???
: : A few days ago there were some who were trying to marry the poor Colonel off to Caroline Bingley, but this is an equally appalling thought!
: : Joan, too
: ___________________
: Appalling, indeed!
: A few thoughts on the subject:
: Colonel Fitzwilliam may still have parents and/or an older brother alive who already have a wife picked out for him.
: If the Colonel attended Darcy & Elizabeth's wedding (yes, I know he was there in the movie), then Lady C would be angry at him for approving such a dreadful match.
: Even if Col. F married Miss De Bourgh, we could always hope for widowerhood -- possibly a wealthy widower?
: kathleen
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We are all being too harsh on poor Miss De Bourgh. Is it her fault she was born to such a dreadful mother?
I always attributed her shyness and weakness to her mother's over possessiveness.
Maybe she'd break free and find her true self after her mother's death? Could it
happen?
Paola
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 12, 1996 at 13:51:02:
: We are all being too harsh on poor Miss De Bourgh. Is it her fault she was born to such a dreadful mother?
: I always attributed her shyness and weakness to her mother's over possessiveness.
: Maybe she'd break free and find her true self after her mother's death? Could it
: happen?
: Paola
___________________
I suspect that it is too late for Anne to improve -- and besides, Lady C is one of those women who would live to
a ripe old age just to be able to continue running things.
Anne must be over age 25 (a marriage planned since the cousins were in their cradles, and Darcy is 28). She has
been protected by her mother and her governess/companion (Mrs. Jenkins?), so I don't believe that she would know
how to act on her own -- especially since she has never had much social contact w/ people outside her family. She
doesn't even go to London because of her health.
She may not be deathly ill, but I wonder if she will outlive her mother by very long.
kathleen
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Posted by Donna on October 12, 1996 at 14:04:46:
: : We are all being too harsh on poor Miss De Bourgh. Is it her fault she was born to such a dreadful mother?
: : I always attributed her shyness and weakness to her mother's over possessiveness.
: : Maybe she'd break free and find her true self after her mother's death? Could it
: : happen?
: : Paola
: ___________________
: I suspect that it is too late for Anne to improve -- and besides, Lady C is one of those women who would live to
: a ripe old age just to be able to continue running things.
: Anne must be over age 25 (a marriage planned since the cousins were in their cradles, and Darcy is 28). She has
: been protected by her mother and her governess/companion (Mrs. Jenkins?), so I don't believe that she would know
: how to act on her own -- especially since she has never had much social contact w/ people outside her family. She
: doesn't even go to London because of her health.
: She may not be deathly ill, but I wonder if she will outlive her mother by very long.
: kathleen
___________________
Lady C reminds of of Betty Davis's mother in "NOW VOYAGER".
Reminder that PBS airs the knew Line-up Sunday Oct 13-14 most palces at 9:00p.m. 2 {episodes}. Masterpiece Theatre
Fall line-up.
Donna
Posted by Kali on October 12, 1996 at 15:06:52:
: : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : I thought about that also but Mr. Collins did not seem interested in Mary because some of the things she said he made a face to. I think that he would have thought himself to be much superior to her.
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : :
: : : You're right, but isn't that fittingly ironic? She's just like him, and he doesn't even realize it!
: : : - K
: :
: : ___________________
: : I think that Mr. Collins believed that since he was doing the Bennets a favor he ought to have one of the handsome
: : daughters.
:
: ___________________
: G'day All,
: Matching Mr Collins and Mary would have been a marriage made in hell. They would have grown to loathe each other for their similarities. That's probably why Mr Collins turns up his face at her - he sees himself reflected in her countenance.
: Besides they would have become Society Enemies Numero Uno, to be banished forever from all good (and not so good) company. Surely at least Mary deserves a better fate than that!!!
___________________
I disagree. I think that Mr. Collins has absolutely no idea of exactly how obnoxious he is, let alone how much Mary is like him. He may look down on Mary, but she isn't so harsh on him (she defends his consolation visit, upon Lydia's elopement, when everyone else is ready to toss him out of the house). It's probable that Mr. COllins, as self-righteous as he is, would be very flattered by Mary's analysis of his intents, and soften towards her. THis is not to say that a marriage between them would be happy, though I'm sure they would be able to moralise it to a state of satisfaction for both - the noble clergyman and his worthy philosopher-wife working together to save men's souls.
As far as "good society," they'll always have Lady Catherine. That's always been good enough for Mr. COllins.
- K
Posted by Kali on October 12, 1996 at 15:11:42:
: Actually, no. My mother's family is from Greece, but they
: are ethnic Macedonians (a slavic nationality). I'm also 1/4
: German and 1/4 Finnish.
: Ann
___________________
Close enough! ;)
- K
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Posted by Kali on October 12, 1996 at 15:33:04:
:
: : I think you guys are right. Wickham is oh-so-attentive and charming - he says and does all the right things, and leads women to believe that he really is interested in them. And isn't being admired part of what attracts a woman to a man?
:
: ___________________
: G'day Kali,
:
: Those sparkling eyes would capture any woman's heart. They tell tales of forbidden lust. I mean just look at him here...
Ian,
Ditto to Joan, Too's Cheesehead reply below. I don't want to miss this image (mind you, I'm not being unfaithful to Mr. Darcy - I'm merely interested in experiencing the full force of your reply!)!
- K
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Posted by Amy on October 12, 1996 at 15:37:48:
: Ditto to Joan, Too's Cheesehead reply I don't want to miss this image (mind you, I'm not being unfaithful to Mr. Darcy - I'm merely interested in experiencing the full force of your reply!)!
: - K
___________________
Ian: I guess none of us can get to your server. Where did OJ get her pic in the first place? Maybe we can link to it elsewhere on the web. It is a wicked picture if it's the one I am thinking of that you posted here some weeks ago.
Amy
Posted by Kali on October 12, 1996 at 15:41:25:
Love the book jacket, Henry. Who would have thought to market NA from that (dubious) angle?
- K
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Posted by Amy on October 12, 1996 at 15:47:41:
: Love the book jacket, Henry. Who would have thought to market NA from that (dubious) angle?
: - K
___________________
Probably JA herself!
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Posted by Raphael on October 12, 1996 at 17:08:54:
In case there are those of you out there not aware, Jennifer Ehle
began shooting 'Wilde', a biographical film about Oscar Wilde, on August
24th in London. Familiar names will appear alongside her:
Stephen Fry (as Oscar Wilde, of 'Jeeves & Wooster' and 'Cold Comfort Farm' fame)
Vanessa Redgrave
Gemma Jones (Mrs. Dashwood in S&S)
as well as many others.
Brian Gilbert directs and Julian Mitchell wrote the screenplay based on
the book by Richard Ellmann. It will be out in 1997. Who knows if it's
good or bad, but it is a certainty that Ehle's career is exploding, and
all us fans will have the pleasure of seeing her many times in the months
to come!
Cordially,
Raphael
Follow Ups:
Posted by DonnaT on October 12, 1996 at 17:39:45:
: : : : Would some of the old Doris Day/Rock Hudson movies ___________________
: : Yeah. Also the only Doris movie I like: Teacher's Pet with Clark Gable. Only, the dissonance can really be felt only in her character.
: : It represents a variant different from the P&P flavor of the theme: stories in which the woman is "above" the guy, socially or in this case by education. Another example: another newspaper picture in which Kate Hepburn and Spencer Tracy both write for the same paper? Which one was that?
: :
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
:
: : I know the Hepburn/Spencer movie but can't think of the name. Teacher's Pet is one I've never seen, but the mention of Clark Gable reminds me of Gone With the Wind - another perfect example. Then there is Pretty Woman and Crossing Delancey - both have some themes of attraction/repulsion - and even stronger themes of pride and prejudice.
: Grace
___________________
Posted by Paola on October 12, 1996 at 18:21:09:
: In case there are those of you out there not aware, Jennifer Ehle
: began shooting 'Wilde', a biographical film about Oscar Wilde, on August
: 24th in London. Familiar names will appear alongside her:
: Stephen Fry (as Oscar Wilde, of 'Jeeves & Wooster' and 'Cold Comfort Farm' fame)
: Vanessa Redgrave
: Gemma Jones (Mrs. Dashwood in S&S)
: as well as many others.
: Brian Gilbert directs and Julian Mitchell wrote the screenplay based on
: the book by Richard Ellmann. It will be out in 1997. Who knows if it's
: good or bad, but it is a certainty that Ehle's career is exploding, and
: all us fans will have the pleasure of seeing her many times in the months
: to come!
: Cordially,
: Raphael
___________________
I thought I heard she was working at Stratsford. Did she already finish her season at Stratsford or is she acting in both?
Paola
Follow Ups:
Posted by Paola on October 12, 1996 at 18:24:37:
: : We are all being too harsh on poor Miss De Bourgh. Is it her fault she was born to such a dreadful mother?
: : I always attributed her shyness and weakness to her mother's over possessiveness.
: : Maybe she'd break free and find her true self after her mother's death? Could it
: : happen?
: : Paola
: ___________________
: I suspect that it is too late for Anne to improve -- and besides, Lady C is one of those women who would live to
: a ripe old age just to be able to continue running things.
: Anne must be over age 25 (a marriage planned since the cousins were in their cradles, and Darcy is 28). She has
: been protected by her mother and her governess/companion (Mrs. Jenkins?), so I don't believe that she would know
: how to act on her own -- especially since she has never had much social contact w/ people outside her family. She
: doesn't even go to London because of her health.
: She may not be deathly ill, but I wonder if she will outlive her mother by very long.
: kathleen
___________________
I guess I just always saw her as being younger than Darcy and forgot that their marriage was planned since they were in their cradles.
Paola
Follow Ups:
Posted by Paola on October 12, 1996 at 18:47:39:
___________________
: As for Darcy I think he had higher morals than most young men of his time.
: But as young rich very handsome I have hard to think him totally innocent at the age of 28.
: But I certainly do not think he went to the prostitutes of London with his high moral and fastidious nature.His remarks at Lucas Lodge on the very great pleasure a pair of fine eyes in
: the face of a pretty woman .
: and more his rather checky remark at Nethfield
: about admiring miss Bingley and Lizzys figures maybe suggests that he was not wholly unexperienced.
: (Or is my dirty mind going again?)
: Anna-Karin
___________________
I feel that Darcy was not at all experienced when it came to women. Austen does describe Darcy as being "As much awake to the novelty of attention in that quarter (in that quarter meaning him looking at Elizabeth's figure as she walked around the room) as Elizabeth herself could be."
Paola
Posted by Amy on October 12, 1996 at 18:48:27:
I'm not so sure that Lady C's cradle statement is a clear authority for Anne's age. She was prone to hyperbole: pollute the shades and all that?
Amy
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Posted by Kelly on October 12, 1996 at 19:18:06:
: Have any of you seen The Buccaneers on PBS? Some of you P&P, GGables
: etc. fans might like it. How about the scene where two of the main
: characters (I don't remember their names) run off in the carriage
: together? Anyone seen it?
: jp
___________________
Yes! I've seen this series ~ and enjoyed it immensley.
I don't remember the characters' names or a lot of the
other details as it's only aired once in my area...but I'm very much looking forward to seeing it again. I'd recommend it to those who enjoyed P&P2 as well.
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 12, 1996 at 19:19:37:
: I'm not so sure that Lady C's cradle statement is a clear authority for Anne's age. She was prone to hyperbole: pollute the shades and all that?
: Amy
___________________
You may perhaps be correct. Anne is past the age for "being presented," however, so how old is that? And,
Mrs. Jenkins no longer supervises Anne's education, so she is past the age of having a governess, officially anyway.
I have always read her remark to mean that Darcy & his cousin Anne were close in age; it may be that Lady C.
only meant that she & her sister (Darcy's mother) had planned a cousin marriage if they had children of the
opposite gender.
Thank you for your gentle reminders that we do not all see the same meaning in the same words!
kathleen
Posted by Candace on October 12, 1996 at 19:30:05:
: : Have any of you seen The Buccaneers on PBS? Some of you P&P, GGables
: : etc. fans might like it. How about the scene where two of the main
: : characters (I don't remember their names) run off in the carriage
: : together? Anyone seen it?
: : jp
:
: ___________________
: Yes! I've seen this series ~ and enjoyed it immensley.
: I don't remember the characters' names or a lot of the
: other details as it's only aired once in my area...but I'm very much looking forward to seeing it again. I'd recommend it to those who enjoyed P&P2 as well.
___________________
I had watched the first part, taped the second part to watch later, and completely forgot about the third part -- So, I never got to see the ending. I was really hoping that PBS would repeat it this last summer, but alas it never was repeated. This is the only drawback of mini series. I know that it is available on video and someday maybe I'll purchase it. I really did love what I saw. I thought it very good.
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Posted by Amy on October 12, 1996 at 19:50:20:
: : Only been in England twice -- never for longer than 8 weeks. The only great house I saw was Blenheim. Would Pemberley have been so grand, do you think?
___________________
: Blenheim is actually famous for being a grand monstrosity plopped into the middle of the English countryside -- NOTHING is like Blenheim, so Pemberley wouldn't have been like Blemheim.
___________________
HC,
Is the house truly seen as a joke? Your response makes me feel quite embarrassed. Maybe you all will forgive me if I impart the intelligence that I was not 18 when I toured the place. I hope I have picked up better taste since then, for we cannot all be as cultured as Marianne Dashwood at that age. I was in awe. I admit it. But now you show it to me in a different light, the place does look rather like one of Miss Bingley's hats.
Amy
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