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Posted by Cheryl on October 11, 1996 at 13:24:53:
Ann2,
Well spoke, my dear, well spoke.
Cheryl
Posted by kathleen on October 11, 1996 at 15:06:01:
According to an article in the Sept 16, 1996 issue of The Times (London), Jennifer Ehle is playing the wife
of Oscar Wilde in a new movie called "Wilde." Stephen Fry has the lead. Filming was taking place in
September, and they were only going to be filming for two months.
kathleen
Posted by Amy on October 11, 1996 at 15:39:02:
A bunch of us were talking about Lizzie's pull to Darcy -- even early on in the story:
: : . . . (Or was she actually subconciously encouraging him?)
: : : : : Ann
_________________
: : : : I think that Lizzy at some uncouncious level was attracted to Darcy even if she disliked him It almost seem like this uncounsous attraction can have fueled her anger at him
: : : : Anna-Karin
__________________
: : : I agree. She thinks about him too often to be indifferent.
: : : kathleen
___________________
:Why bother if she wasnīt pussled by him deep down inside
: somewhere.
:Ann2
____________________
: : Yes. Oh yes, the mutual admiration while fighting the urge is what makes it all so sexy. Moonlighting, Anything But Love, Cheers. Anybody see the new CBS show, Mr & Mrs Smith?
: : Amy
___________________________________________
Cheryl said she likes Scott Bakula and Ann2 wondered about Mr & Mrs Smith. So let's do talk about this wonderfully interesting type of man-woman interaction.
Can anyone think of other examples in literature, film or TV? Northern Exposure is one I forgot. Also some of the old Howard Hawks screwball comedies.
Do any of you know how classic the theme is? Does it occur in Greek drama or folk stories?
Ann2 asked:
:: Amy, why do I from time to time get the feeling that you think we are sinking to deep into addiction?
I don't know. Why do you get that feeling? ; ]
:: IS there such a thing as a show on Mr&Mrs Smith? Sounds terribly intresting, why donīt you tell us more about it?
It's not based on the old movie so far as I know. I don't know if you got Quantum Leap in Sweden or not, but M&M Smith stars its star. Corporate spies are made partners who sometimes have to pretend they are married. They bicker. He's a little more obviously attracted to her than she is to him (the P&P variant of this theme?). Their backgrounds are secrets from each other. Fourth episode airs tonight on CBS.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 11, 1996 at 17:04:48:
: Today, still indulging my obsession, I found in the Cornell library two different plays based on P&P. One is by Mrs Steele McKay(1900s), and another by Helen Jerome (1930s).
___________________
Marsha, I could not get into the Internet Database this afternoon to check, but I tried to go there because I was curious if either of these were the play on which P&P0 was based.
I am with you. The Milne version sounds better and very sweet. I want to read it. I want to see it. Well, okay, I want to produce it.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 11, 1996 at 17:24:57:
I found the complete lyrics to the Lydia song on a web page:
From: Unclejack (uncljk@planetcom.com)
APOLOGY/ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
What follows is a transcript of the lyrics of E.Y. Harburg and Harold
Arlen's classic comic song, "Lydia the Tattooed Lady," as sung by
his royal majesty Julian (Groucho) Marx at Carnegie Hall in 1971.
It is being presented because loyal, earnest fans who either cannot
locate the sheet music nor a copy of "At the Circus" (which film is
distinguished primarily by the introduction of this song) desparately
wish to learn the lyrics.
Now join Marvin Hamlisch in the background vocals!
(la la la la la la)
Lydia, oh Lydia, say, have you met Lydia?
Lydia the tattooed lady
She has eyes that men adore so
And a torso even more so
Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopedia
Lydia, the queen of tattoo
On her back is the Battle of Waterloo
Beside it the Wreck of the Hesperus, too
And proudly above waves the red, white and blue
You can learn a lot from Lydia
(la la la la la la)
When her robe is unfurled, she will show you the world
If you step up and tell her where
For a dime you can see Kankakee or Paree
Or Washington crossing the Delaware
(la la la la la la)
(la la la la la la)
Lydia, oh Lydia, say, have you met Lydia?
Lydia the tattooed lady
When her muscles start relaxin'
Up the hill comes Andrew Jackson
Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopedia
Lydia, the queen of tattoo
For two bits she will do a mazurka in jazz
With a view of Niagara that nobody has
And on a clear day, you can see Alcatraz
You can learn a lot from Lydia
(la la la la la la)
(la la la la la la)
Come along and see Buffalo Bill with his lasso
Just a little classic by Mendel Picasso
Here's Captain Spaulding exploring the Amazon
Here's Godiva but with her pajamas on
(la la la la la la)
(la la la la la la)
Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopedia
Lydia, the queen of them all
She once swept an admiral clean off his feet
The ships on her hips made her heart skip a beat
And now the old boy's in command of the fleet
For he went and married Lydia
I said Lydia
He said Lydia
I said Lydia
He said Lydia
Ole!
Link:
Follow Ups:
Posted by Marsha on October 11, 1996 at 18:20:15:
: ___________________
: Marsha, I could not get into the Internet Database this afternoon to check, but I tried to go there because I was curious if either of these were the play on which P&P0 was based.
: I am with you. The Milne version sounds better and very sweet. I want to read it. I want to see it. Well, okay, I want to produce it.
: Amy
___________________
I don't think either of those is the source for P&P0, because I've read that Aldous Huxley wrote the screenplay from the novel, and the screenplay was a direct transformation of the novel itself, without any secondary sources. (Huxley should have stayed with "The Brave New World"!, since he also (in my opinion) spoild the adaptation of Jane Eyre in the 40s)
Marsha
Posted by Marsha on October 11, 1996 at 18:29:14:
:
: :: IS there such a thing as a show on Mr&Mrs Smith? Sounds terribly intresting, why donīt you tell us more about it?
: It's not based on the old movie so far as I know. I don't know if you got Quantum Leap in Sweden or not, but M&M Smith stars its star. Corporate spies are made partners who sometimes have to pretend they are married. They bicker. He's a little more obviously attracted to her than she is to him (the P&P variant of this theme?). Their backgrounds are secrets from each other. Fourth episode airs tonight on CBS.
: Amy
___________________
I have seen a movie called 'Mr and Mrs Smith' (thought there might be more than one?) and it doesn't have to do with spies: it is a Hitchcock comedy(!) with Carole Lombard, about a man and woman who are married who find that their marriaage is legally invalid. The husband plans to propose to the wife again, but she doesn't know it, and suspects he wants to ge red of her (they found out separately) so they have a fight and she throws him out, and he tries to get back. You get the idea: a screwball 30s comedy. (I thought it was less than brilliant and rejoiced that Hitchcock stuck to his usual genere after that-Yes, I am a Hitchcock and old movies in general fan!)
Marsha
Posted by Lilian on October 11, 1996 at 18:31:41:
: : Annie
: :
: : P.S. Sorry if I sound like I'm rambling or ranting. I just can't help it when it comes to this movie.
: ___________________
: Annie,
: That P & P was shown in America on PBS in October of 1980 and for a P & P fan you have to realize it was all we had. I taped it from TV then and treasured it until P & P 2 came along which so very superior of course (seriously addicted person here). To be fair Elizabeth Garvie who played Elizabeth was quite good, David Rintoul , Darcy, was "wooden". , Lady C wasn't bad either. IMHO,
: Sounding off too, DonnaT
___________________
I have to agree. P&P1 was the first P&P I saw and I adored it. True, there were some faults but before P&P2 came out,
I too treasured it and saw it frequently. I thought the actors did quite well, although Darcy didn't smile that much. David Rintoul later appeared in "Dr Finlay" a Scottish
series that was shown in Australia last year. I will always remember him fondly as the "first" Darcy. I think the reason why P&P2 did better was because it wasn't filmed in a studio and it had a touch of the 90's in it. Now I enjoy Firth as Darcy.
Posted by Marsha on October 11, 1996 at 18:34:25:
I have to go back home for fall break, and won't come back till Tuesday! It makes me very distressed, indeed, to see how much I will miss on this agreeable bulleteen board, chatting with my amiable fellow addictees. Accept my best wishes for your health and happiness!
Marsha
Follow Ups:
Posted by Lilian on October 11, 1996 at 18:36:46:
I'm a little confused here. Some of you have spoken about P&P1 but the actual production dates seem to have stumped me. I believe this production (the one with Elizabeth Garvie as Lizzy and David Rintoul as Darcy) was made in 1985 although some of you claim to have seen it in the late 70's and early 80's!! To clear things up, was there another P&P production made besides P&P0, P&P1 and P&P2?
Follow Ups:
Posted by Lilian on October 11, 1996 at 18:49:27:
: Lilian lamented:
: : This is sooo sad but I know a few guys who enjoyed these books but they are the 90's version of Mr Collins.
: : *SHOCK HORROR*!!! (even just as bad!)
:
: ___________________
: [I apologize in advance for the veiled political reference; imitation should not be confused for flattery in this instance.]
: Lilian, I know myself. I've worked with myself now for 42 years, both in my profession and socially. I am proud to say that I am my friend. And, ma'am, I am no Mr. Collins.
: :)
: Since I took some flak for my apparent 'attitude' in my bio, I would like to provide an update as rebuttal.
: Within the past month, a woman I've known for perhaps nine months time now and I have grown exceedingly fond of each other's company. We have, on many occasions of quiet reflection, engaged each other most amusingly in discussions regarding our Myers-Briggs personality preferences. And I have regaled her with references to even this list, and these snippets of converse, relating to that most noble and entertaining diversion for whom some of (you) so readily and quite contentedly admit your fond afflictions and addiction. And romance has roust its head at every turn, so it seems, as this unlikely affair first developed, then blossomed, then fully burst in bloom. But alas, my endeavor seems quite the opposite of that stated along this thread - my 'real deal' has expressed not one whit of interest of P&P, or any such televised amusement, or any such novel of ideas or romance or conceit. However, considering all things which this lovely and most real apparition brings to my affairs now, (and most humbly I admit, I to hers) I believe I shall easily overlook this minor, and perhaps temporary, transgression.
: May I then encourage you who read this to, rather than pine for those persons and that behavior which is lacking in your observations and experiences, appreciate and laud and encourage that behavior which does indeed strike your fancy and merit your amusement.
: Steve
: "When what's missing becomes so present, what's present goes unnoticed."
___________________
OK, I amy have taken that point a little far. (But) if you had met my English teacher who taught the novel, I'm sure you would have agreed with me. HE was Mr Collins (all over) and a fair number of other guys I knew flattered themselves as Darcy (which they weren't even close to) so I have taken my presumption from there. Maybe I'm living in the wrong place and I'm surrounded by Mr Collins and so therefore, have no experience of what other people may be like. (like yourself, that is). Or maybe (since I am more than half your age) I have not lived long enough or (as Caroline Bingley says) I have not had the opportunity of moving in society. (hmmm, by the way, my society is rather small.. only 3 million people live in my city) :)
Posted by Lilian on October 11, 1996 at 19:02:08:
: : : It always seems that there are disproportionately more female Austen fans than male.
: :
: : ___________________
: : Even Colin Firth admitted that at first he had not read Pride and Prejudice (prior to being offered the role) because he feared it was a "sissy" book.
:
: You bet. Jane Austen and "Pride & Prejudice", howwwwwwwww sssssssissssssssy
: Phhhhewwwww ;-) An Aussie male would never tell the world (especially other blokes)
: that he enjoys reading JA and watching series and movies based on her stories.
: Check out me favourite site...
___________________
I totally agree there. An Aussie male sitting around with his friends saying "You know, I quite liked Darcy... sought of a guy we should be mates with" NOT.
I guess you have to be in Oz to get that. :)
Posted by Ian on October 11, 1996 at 19:03:56:
: : Mary you said "2 sensible daughters, 2 with potential, and 1 mistake". Should that be
: : 2 sensible daughters, 1 with potential, and 2 mistakes. Sorry you probably are right.
: : If Mary had attracted Mr Collins eye then the Bennets would have had 3 suitably married
: : daughters. T t :-o how naughty I was to make such a suggestion.
:
: ___________________
: Hello, Ian.
: I do think you're being a bit hard on poor Mary. Jane Austen told her neices and nephews that she went on to marry Mr. Phillip's clerk and become the star of Meryton society. (No doubt because of her wit, lovely singing voice and skill at the piano forte.) So I wouldn't consider her a mistake exactly. More of a mishap.
: (Then again, maybe I take up for her because of her name.)
: Mary
___________________
I guess I was a little hard on the "poor dear". However in P&P2 she was portrayed as a sort of whining know-it-all imposing her morality on everyone else. However Mary certainly was not a malicious person - just hard to be with. It would have taken a very special man to soften her attitudes. I then think her other talents such as her singing and piano forte playing would have shone through for her to become the darling of Meryton society.
Mary has the problem of the "middle-child syndrome". Not old enough to go out but old enough to know better. Kitty suffers from this too to some extent. Perhaps if all the Bennet daughters had received equal attention from both their parents things may have turned out differently for the younger daughters.
Posted by Kali on October 11, 1996 at 19:06:54:
Since this kind of marriage would rarely if ever occur, who knows what would have happened? Considering the type of people Darcy and Lizzie are, however, I'm sure Elizabeth was never wanting for money. In the last chapter of the book, there is mention of Elizabeth having her own money for personal expenses, some of which she secretly sent along to the shopaholic Lydia. I think we can be certain that Darcy always provided Lizzie with more than enough cash to do whatever she wanted.
- K
Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 11, 1996 at 19:12:17:
: : Since it is said that the ball at Netherfield was on a Thuesday november the 26th.
: : : and November the 26Th was a Thuesday in 1811.
: : : So maybe we can think thatthe wedding was in late 1812.
: : I'm impressed - how did you know it was a Thursday?
:
: ___________________
:
: Almanacs and perpetual calendars are wonderful things, my dear. But most likely Anna-karin's edition of P&P has a chronlolgy appendix in the back of the book, as does mine, where someone else has already done the research for us.
: Cheryl
___________________
Well in fact I got the cronology from the P&P web page under the Jane Austen info web page it seem to have been written by Chapman and is maybe included in their edition of P&P.
But it is not in my english Peunguin edition (in paper back) bought here in sweden this year.
as for the date of the Netherfield ball I checked it out with my astronomy program on
my computer and it fitted.
Anna-Karin
Posted by Ian on October 11, 1996 at 19:16:40:
: :____
: :
: : ... but let's put her in a carriage with Lydia for a not-so-easy distance, with Lydia bumping her hat box into Lady C's space and interrupting her every pronouncement and disagreeing about where to stop for the night and giggling at questionable double entrendres and snorting like a little piggy all way home.
: : Amy
:
: Don't forget to include the sniffling Ann deB -oh the things Lydia could teach her on a long trip..
: Katherine
___________________
Oh how wicked. Sounds delicious. We could also add Mr Collins. Then all the occupants may suffer together. It certainly would have made interesting reading. Who would have wanted to get off first?
Posted by Ian on October 11, 1996 at 19:21:35:
: I think you guys are right. Wickham is oh-so-attentive and charming - he says and does all the right things, and leads women to believe that he really is interested in them. And isn't being admired part of what attracts a woman to a man?
___________________
G'day Kali,
Those sparkling eyes would capture any woman's heart. They tell tales of forbidden lust. I mean just look at him here...
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ian on October 11, 1996 at 19:32:10:
: :
: : : ___________________
: : : I thought about that also but Mr. Collins did not seem interested in Mary because some of the things she said he made a face to. I think that he would have thought himself to be much superior to her.
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : You're right, but isn't that fittingly ironic? She's just like him, and he doesn't even realize it!
: : - K
:
: ___________________
: I think that Mr. Collins believed that since he was doing the Bennets a favor he ought to have one of the handsome
: daughters.
___________________
G'day All,
Matching Mr Collins and Mary would have been a marriage made in hell. They would have grown to loathe each other for their similarities. That's probably why Mr Collins turns up his face at her - he sees himself reflected in her countenance.
Besides they would have become Society Enemies Numero Uno, to be banished forever from all good (and not so good) company. Surely at least Mary deserves a better fate than that!!!
Follow Ups:
Posted by Grace on October 11, 1996 at 19:33:56:
Could we talk a bit about poor Colonel Fitzwilliam? (Stop me if you
have already gone over this one.)Darcy has found his happiness but
I fear that the Colonel is now left to marry Miss de Bourgh ( a fate
worse than death, especially when you consider life at Rosings with such
a tyrannical mother-in-law). I see the married Colonel constantly drawn to
Pemberley to 1.escape the oppressive conditions at home, 2.find male companionship
other than Mr. Collins,3. bask in the domestic bliss enjoyed by
Darcy and Elizabeth.
Family duty and the need for money make this marriage inevitable. Am I wrong???
Grace
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 11, 1996 at 19:53:00:
: Anyway here is an image for you to enjoy...
___________________
Ian, your image won't load - your server claims:
Error 403 - Your client does not have permission to get URL /~ddibd/jane/pride.jpg from this server.
Are you sure that you have the read/write permissions for your directory set correctly?
Joan, too
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