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Posted by Joan, too on October 11, 1996 at 00:10:26:
: "The indignant" Marsha
: Today, still indulging my obsession, I found in the Cornell library two different plays based on P&P. One is by Mrs Steele McKay(1900s), and another by Helen Jerome (1930s).
: God forbid! They are actually pretty bad! The Milne version, posted on here some time ago, is a masterpiece compared to the two.
How amazing - and these plays must actually have been published in order to end up in a library. Was there any info as to whether either had ever been performed?
Posted by Marie on October 11, 1996 at 06:57:55:
: : I just recently rewatched the P&P1. Second time is a charm. I really enjoyed this Lizzy, she is more like the character described in the book. Light, airy, whereas, Jennifer Ehle is more endowed. Obviously this Darcy did nothing for me, he was not bad. The casting of Mr Bennet, Mrs Bennet, Lady Catherine, and last but not least, Mr Collins were dead on. Oh yeah, Julia Sawahla plays a damn good Lydia. The one in P&P1 did nothing for me. Laura
: : ___________________
: : I agree with you on all points, Laura. Much as I love P&P2, I still love #1 as well. I think it showed the evolution of Lizzy almost better than P&P2. Grace
Another voice of agreement in general support of P&P1, though I, too, like 2 very much. I differ with Laura and Grace in that I think David Rintoul as Darcy was pretty bad, and thought Lydia quite good. P&P1 placed a little more emphasis on Lizzie's metanoia, her moral awakening, than did P&P2, which seems true to the book. By the way, I agree thatthe BBC Mansfield Park (my least favorite novel), was nicely done.
Posted by Grace on October 11, 1996 at 07:07:33:
: : Think about how mrs Bennet must have fussed around.
: : : And still worse think about what she would have said or trying to say to Lizzy and
: : : Jane about their marital duties (weddingnight) Horrors!!!!!!
: : : We can only hope that maybe mrs Gardiner had a word with them about such things.
: : : Anna-Karin
: : ___________________
: : I like the idea of Mrs. Gardiner having a "serious" talk w/ Jane and Lizzie before the wedding.
: : It's much better than thinking about how Mrs. Bennet would have explained it. (Of course, Lydia
: : may have tried to tell her sisters all about the joys of "marital duties" before she & Wickham left
: : to join his regiment.)
: : kathleen
: Now that we are on the subject and established that of course Lizzy would need "The Talk" about the wedding night --
: What about Darcy? He obviously was quite upset at Wickham when he had that little "Floozy" in his room. Was he indeed
: also inexpirianced? In the 19th Century did nice boys do? If so who with?
: Jane Austen gave us the perfect hero in Darcy. Somehow I don't think that she would have wanted his past to include sordid liaisons. Then again, maybe it is up to the reader to decide what is perfect....an experienced Darcy... or an inexperienced Darcy. Grace
Posted by Marie on October 11, 1996 at 07:08:37:
: I can't really see Lizzie as a nun. She would make probably the worst one you can imagine! Besides, t her lively temper, it is probably on par with marriage ot Mr C.
Actually, I suspect that if both Lizzie and Mary had become nuns, Lizzie would have been the better. If Lizzie had decided to become a nun, it would have been wholeheartedly, and because she saw the good in it, not as Mary would have, simply because there was nothing better to do. From what I gather, it is the former type who make good nuns, not the latter, and I suspect that a good convent would not even accept the Mary type. (The sister of a college mate became a nun and surprised a number of us when she visited campus. She was so young, so pretty, so alive, so happy. She'd obviously chosen the path, not had it forced on her.)
Posted by Marie on October 11, 1996 at 07:21:02:
: Miss Bingley says cruel things to make herself look good by making her rival look bad; Mrs. Hurst seems to take genuine and malicious delight in the nastiness, and eggs her sister on whenever possible.
: I always felt that Mrs. Hurst's nastiness was done in total support of her sister's ambitions towards Darcy rather than as sheer entertainment value (although I don not deny that this is a factor.) : Cheryl
I think you're probably right, Cheryl, but she certainly does enjoy it. She can't have been a nice person.
Posted by Marie on October 11, 1996 at 07:32:50:
: : Yes, Firth as Darcy, not Firth as Firth (who seems to take himself just a tad too seriously, perhaps?).
: Perhaps. But why should he not? The handsome can afford to give offense wherever they go.
Yes, when I voiced my opinion to a friend the other day, her response was pretty much the same, i.e., with those looks, why shouldn't he? Did you see the very funny full length portrait in September's Tatler? On the other hand, there is a very nice full page portrait of just his face in a recent issue of Harper and Queen, I think.
I thought his performance in A Month in the Country was excellent.
I agree, though I haven't seen the movie since it came out in the 80's Did you see him in Circle of Friends? He did a good acting job, but my! how different he looked: dull and heavy. I could hardly believe it was the same person.
Posted by Lori T. on October 11, 1996 at 07:55:43:
: According to my trusty Oxford Concise, Michaelmas is a Christian festival in honour of St Michael and falls on 29 September.
Thank you - I have always wondered that and never thought to ask!!!
Posted by Kelly on October 11, 1996 at 07:57:32:
:Did you see him in Circle of Friends? He did a good acting job, but my! how different he looked: dull and heavy. I could hardly believe it was the same person.
I agree, I thought he looked horrible in Circle of Friends ~
but that he DID play the part well.
Posted by Gav on October 11, 1996 at 08:05:04:
: : It always seems that there are disproportionately more female Austen fans than male.
: Even Colin Firth admitted that at first he had not read Pride and Prejudice (prior to being offered the role) because he feared it was a "sissy" book.
You bet. Jane Austen and "Pride & Prejudice", howwwwwwwww sssssssissssssssy
Phhhhewwwww ;-) An Aussie male would never tell the world (especially other blokes)
that he enjoys reading JA and watching series and movies based on her stories.
Check out me favourite site...
Posted by Ian on October 11, 1996 at 08:24:18:
: Poor Ian. You must be scratching your head. (What's a cheesehead? Crazy Amurcuns)
: I still get the 403 Forbidden message.
Yes Amy I'm wearing a cheesehead because I at the end of my tether re OJ"JA"Page.
I'm so frustrated because you cannot connect to one of the wonderful pages on my server.
If I keep the scratching up I'll go bald! (shock - Oh my :-o ) So on goes the cheesehead.
Anyway here is an image for you to enjoy...
Posted by Donna on October 11, 1996 at 08:25:05:
What does Lizzie get when she marries Darcy. Money ,land ect.
If there are childern would they get everything. If there was a son.What
about daughters. Can Mr. Darcy make his own choices.
Posted by Ian on October 11, 1996 at 08:43:34:
: No, I don't think Jane Austen thought Charlotte made a good choice, especially as Jane never married herself even though she had the chance. A strong theme in all her novels is the difficult situation women were in -- they couldn't support themselves in any respectable way that wasn't demeaning so unless they were independently weathly or very lucky in love they faced some difficult choices.
: (As to Charlotte's children, they had a 50-50 chance. Look at the Bennets: Sensible father + silly mother = 2 very sensible daughters, 2 with potential, and 1 mistake. (Though perhaps even Lydia could have been salvaged if she'd received more of her father's attention and less of her mother's.)
Remember that Charlotte at 27 is considered old for her times to be still unattached.
It is probably desperation on her part that she hitches herself to Mr Collins.
Afterall if she couldn't find herself a wealthy man or a man with suitable connections
then often a clergyman was considered a suitable enough choice. Also Mr Collins connections
with Rosings made him a particularly good catch. But as we see Charlotte soon settles into
her married lifestyle spending much of her time as far away from the odious man as possible.
Perhaps Colonel Fitzwilliam provided a suitable distraction for her. Afteral he was always
wandering about the countryside.
Mary you said "2 sensible daughters, 2 with potential, and 1 mistake". Should that be
2 sensible daughters, 1 with potential, and 2 mistakes. Sorry you probably are right.
If Mary had attracted Mr Collins eye then the Bennets would have had 3 suitably married
daughters. T t :-o how naughty I was to make such a suggestion.
Posted by Mich on October 11, 1996 at 10:09:48:
" overall I didn't think this was a good adaptation.
: Did anyone else see this version? And if so, did you like it?"
I must agree. I am all astonishment there are those who enjoyed that version.
Where was Darcy? I saw noone who resembled our Mr.Darcy.
What I must know is why did they have Lizzie come running into Pemberley, in tears, after she received Jane's letter about Lydia & Wickhem. Lizzie?? What where they thinking?
Posted by Annie on October 11, 1996 at 10:23:22:
: What does Lizzie get when she marries Darcy. Money ,land ect.
: If there are childern would they get everything. If there was a son.What
: about daughters. Can Mr. Darcy make his own choices.
: Thanks Donna
I think that Darcy will probably make his own choices, and seeing how tough Elizabeth had it because she was one of five daughters and the estate was entailed away to a male, he will probably leave the estate to his daughters if there is no male heir (however, do we ever doubt that Darcy will father a son?).
As for what Elizabeth gets when she marries Darcy, she gets a wonderful man, of course! (As for what she would get financially, I'm not sure but that would probably be left up to Darcy as well.)
Posted by Ann2 on October 11, 1996 at 10:34:15:
Umm... aren't we a _leetle_ bit obsessive here? Doeesn't seem like the support group has helped you very much yet
To Henry C
Yes of course"we" are and meditating on the very great pleasure that it can bestow!
I moght add that my mind is *agreeably* engaged and that, no other comparisons dared,
I consider it to be in the footpath of Jane Austen herself. Why she must have been "obsessed"
to create this wonderfully solid, detailed piece of art. Lopīt and cropīt did she not?
And might I enquireMr C sir, are you not rather deep in it yourself - well maybe not the Darcy part, but the whole of it?!
When it comes to the help gained from the support group, I suppose very few of us would appreciate such help as made us yawn and give our books and videos away to charity.
Had to let you know, though I suspect the little face means irony or joke or something.
I have only been communicating a few weeks and am not familiar with all forms of ex-
pression. Let me thank you for your contributions to this addiction of ours, on behalf of all the others ...Hope it has not cost you to much trouble and mortification.
Best wishes Ann2
The text itself is far from a simple scanning in of Chapman's edition, but the Chronology file is based on Chapman and MacKinnon's chronology, yes.
Ann2 is right, Mr. Bennet's call on Bingley and Bingley's return visit take place sometime between September 29 and mid-October, but I don't think they can be dated exactly....
Posted by Mary H on October 11, 1996 at 10:37:53:
: : (As to Charlotte's children, they had a 50-50 chance. Look at the Bennets: Sensible father + silly mother = 2 very sensible daughters, 2 with potential, and 1 mistake. (Though perhaps even Lydia could have been salvaged if she'd received more of her father's attention and less of her mother's.)
: : Mary
: Mary you said "2 sensible daughters, 2 with potential, and 1 mistake". Should that be
: 2 sensible daughters, 1 with potential, and 2 mistakes. Sorry you probably are right.
: If Mary had attracted Mr Collins eye then the Bennets would have had 3 suitably married
: daughters. T t :-o how naughty I was to make such a suggestion.
I do think you're being a bit hard on poor Mary. Jane Austen told her neices and nephews that she went on to marry Mr. Phillip's clerk and become the star of Meryton society. (No doubt because of her wit, lovely singing voice and skill at the piano forte.) So I wouldn't consider her a mistake exactly. More of a mishap.
(Then again, maybe I take up for her because of her name.)
Posted by Ann2 on October 11, 1996 at 10:45:43:
: I just sent email to Sarah and Johanna who have volunteered to help do some HTML tagging, and to Joan, too, who has already worked on most of the bios.
: A copy of the email is linked below for Ann2 (who has also expressed an interest in helping) and for anybody else who either wants to help, wants to see what HTML is all about, or wants to find out more about how I (attempt to ) manage this growing-out-of-control thing.
Thanks Amy for the trust to be. I feel proud and have tried to email you but am not sure wether it reached you. I have had trouble these last days in the afternoon in Sweden , about noon US is it? Cannot get connected to the board either so it gives me very little time early in the morning to contact PP2BB.
Posted by DonnaT on October 11, 1996 at 11:19:16:
: : According to my trusty Oxford Concise, Michaelmas is a Christian festival in honour of St Michael and falls on 29 September.
: : Saman
: Thank you - I have always wondered that and never thought to ask!!!
Ooooooh, that makes sense, Thanks, DonnaT
Posted by Marsha on October 11, 1996 at 12:30:30:
: : What does Lizzie get when she marries Darcy. Money ,land ect.
: : If there are childern would they get everything. If there was a son.What
: : about daughters. Can Mr. Darcy make his own choices.
: : Thanks Donna
: I think that Darcy will probably make his own choices, and seeing how tough Elizabeth had it because she was one of five daughters and the estate was entailed away to a male, he will probably leave the estate to his daughters if there is no male heir (however, do we ever doubt that Darcy will father a son?).
: As for what Elizabeth gets when she marries Darcy, she gets a wonderful man, of course! (As for what she would get financially, I'm not sure but that would probably be left up to Darcy as well.)
I think since she has nothing to signify they won't enter in a prenuptial contract? I've read that if a woman had some amount of money, a contract was madee before marriafge, which determined what property should remain in her hand.
Posted by Marsha on October 11, 1996 at 12:32:52:
: How amazing - and these plays must actually have been published in order to end up in a library. Was there any info as to whether either had ever been performed?
: Joan, too
I did not see much, but the Jerome version had a statement that since it is a licenced play (copyright) all performers, amateaur and professionals should pay (or agree) witht eh party who copyrighted, so I suppose it was intended to be performed (I devoutly hope there were not many takers!)
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