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Posted by Donna on October 10, 1996 at 14:41:28:
: I am feeling a trifle guilty since I am the one who started all these smacking people around threads and now feel compelled to say something nice about Miss Bingley. It is difficult to come up with something, but after much thought I find that it is Miss Bingley who invited Lizzy to stay at Netherfield til Jane was recovered, not Mr. Bingley as it is depicted in the film. Now, granted, she does this grudgingly and more out of a sense of obligation and hospitality than out of concern for Jane or Lizzy, but we must be content with any port in a storm!
: Cheryl
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What is really funny is how Miss Bingley tried to change Lizzie mind about
Mr. Darcy. She was defeating her own purpose. It just shows how much she thinks of him.
Donna
Posted by Kali on October 10, 1996 at 15:08:06:
Wickham was more social and had more outward charm (even if it was ratheuperficial.
________
'"To be sure Lizzy," Said her aunt, "He is not so handsome as Wickham; or, rather, he has not Wickham's countenance, for his features are perfectly good..."'
- Mrs. Gardiner, upon departure from Pemberley.
I think you guys are right. Wickham is oh-so-attentive and charming - he says and does all the right things, and leads women to believe that he really is interested in them. And isn't being admired part of what attracts a woman to a man?
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Posted by Deann on October 10, 1996 at 15:11:34:
: I had never been acquianted with the name Crispin Bonham-Carter until viewing P&P2. I knew the name Helena
: Bonham-Carter - and with that information set out to decide
: which character Crispin was (on A&E the cast was not always scrolled at the end of each part). I had drawn the conclusion that it must be Lydia (!) because the actress's appearance is so strikingly similar to Helena's. Am I crazy, or does anyone else see this?!
: Once online I found out that Crispin was actually a man, of course ;-) and that he was Mr Bingley. I was all astonishment, I assure you! Are he and Helena brother/sister? Would someone remind me of what their blue blood connections are?
: Mr Bingley was so "fruity" that I had to laugh at him (fruity in the nicest possible way!) - is this the way he is? Or was it all for the good of Mr Bingley?
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When I saw P&P2 for the first time, I thought that Crispin Bonham-Carter was Lydia, too. You are not alone. I thought that the actress who played Lydia really resembled Helena Bonham-Carter.
Posted by Donna on October 10, 1996 at 15:17:21:
: : : : :
: : : : : : Did Anyone else get hooked on Anne of Green gables and all the sequels?
: : : : : : I was a bit old when I first saw them but enjoyed them many many times.
: : : : : : Mich
: : : : :
: : : : : ___________________
: : : : : Yes, I did. I also saw it late in life (along with Austen- what was I doing during my youth?) but loved the stories and went and bought all the books. I was a little taken aback to find that they were located in the childrens section, but then so was Little Women and I still read that as an adult (however I did discover that book in 5th grade!)
: : : : : Cheryl
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : After watching P&P sp much I pulled out my set og GG and watched it again.
: : : : I Loved it. I was alittle taken back by it being in the children section
: : : : but I figured my inner child needed it.
: : : : Mich
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : All the Anne books were also an obsession with me; I even went to Prince Edward Island.
: : : Grace
: :
: : ___________________
: : Scary...
: : Last week I order information on taking a vacation there
: : mich
:
: ___________________
:
: : Mich, I think you would enjoy the trip. We began by taking the ferry from Bar Harbour to Yarmouth, toured Nova Scotia then another ferry to P.E.I. and the book-related sites. The countryside is beautiful, very unspoiled. Grace
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I have Ann of Green Gables on type, always loved the Beatles
Ever since I started watching Masterpiece Theater on Suday afternoons, and All Creatures Great and Small. We still watch
ACG&S.
Thanks Donna
Posted by Donna on October 10, 1996 at 15:20:45:
: : : However, Paris is out the question. Most of Europe was at war, and Darcy would never expose Lizzy to the risks of traveling in a war zone.
: : : :
: : : : ___________________
: : : : I think that Lizzy would have been anxious to get accustomed to Pemberley and feel at home there.
: : :
: : : While I'm sure that Lizzy would want to see her new home and
: : : get acquainted with her staff, I think she would have enjoyed a little trip to get used to being a wife to Darcy -
: : : a little time together. If not alone, only with the Bingleys.
: : : What do you think?
: :
: : ___________________
: : I agree, the wedding night alone would have cause
: : her some fright. I think she would prefer to get to know Darcy before taking on Pemberley
: : mich
:
: ___________________
: I agree. Perhaps Pemberley would be too much right after the wedding. Besides, decorum meant that they often had to be with others before the wedding. It would be nice for Darcy and Lizzy to have some time to themselves.
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Maybe they went to Sandition , just I thought only read few chapters of this book.
Kidding around Donna,
Posted by kathleen on October 10, 1996 at 15:23:16:
: Although this bulletin board has been called "P&P2", in actuality this was the third version of Pride and Prejudice. There was . . . a version made in 1985 (I think) by the BBC. I recognized none of the actors.
: I watched this version after I had seen the 1995 version and was sadly disappointed.
: Did anyone else see this version? And if so, did you like it?
: Annie
:
: P.S. Sorry if I sound like I'm rambling or ranting. I just can't help it when it comes to this movie.
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In partial defense of P&P1, at the time it came out (in the late 1970's -- I saw it on Masterpiece Theatre pre 1983), it was the best version out there.
Some of the parts are well cast, but I agree that the dialogue doesn't flow. I purchased the videos when they were first available, and I watched them multiple
times (a previous obsession, or perhaps a different manifestation of my continuing Jane Austen obsession). I got them out again after the January showing
of P&P2, and I couldn't believe how much they had changed! I could barely watch that version -- in comparison, they seem much less sparkling and the acting
less intense (certainly David Rintoul's Darcy doesn't attract me in any way).
Any way, I suspect that part of the problem w/ P&P1 is that it is not P&P2.
kathleen
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Posted by Carolyn on October 10, 1996 at 15:35:06:
: I find it so interesting that so many of us on the BB like or have liked the same things. I, too, loved the below-mentioned version of Scarlett Pimpernel, and watched it numerous times (especially the party scene at Marguerite's place).
Marie, I like that seen too, but my favorite is the fencing seen at the end.
Posted by Laura M on October 10, 1996 at 15:51:12:
I just recently rewatched the P&P1. Second time is a charm. I really enjoyed this Lizzy, she is more like the character described in the book. Light, airy, whereas, Jennifer Ehle is more endowed. Obviously this Darcy did nothing for me, he was not bad. The casting of Mr Bennet, Mrs Bennet, Lady Catherine, and last but not least, Mr Collins were dead on. This production was more realistic and a more British production. BBC serialisations were all made this way. Try sitting thru Mansfield Park another Austen adaptation. Any way, this version is very good, but we have been tainted with Firth's Darcy and Ehle's Lizzy. Oh yeah, Julia Sawahla plays a damn good Lydia. The one in P&P1 did nothing for me. Laura
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Posted by Grace on October 10, 1996 at 16:06:06:
: I just recently rewatched the P&P1. Second time is a charm. I really enjoyed this Lizzy, she is more like the character described in the book. Light, airy, whereas, Jennifer Ehle is more endowed. Obviously this Darcy did nothing for me, he was not bad. The casting of Mr Bennet, Mrs Bennet, Lady Catherine, and last but not least, Mr Collins were dead on. This production was more realistic and a more British production. BBC serialisations were all made this way. Try sitting thru Mansfield Park another Austen adaptation. Any way, this version is very good, but we have been tainted with Firth's Darcy and Ehle's Lizzy. Oh yeah, Julia Sawahla plays a damn good Lydia. The one in P&P1 did nothing for me. Laura
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: I agree with you on all points, Laura. Much as I love P&P2, I still love #1 as well. I think it showed the evolution of Lizzy almost better than P&P2. Grace
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Posted by DonnaT on October 10, 1996 at 17:55:53:
: Annie
:
: P.S. Sorry if I sound like I'm rambling or ranting. I just can't help it when it comes to this movie.
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Annie,
That P & P was shown in America on PBS in October of 1980 and for a P & P fan you have to realize it was all we had. I taped it from TV then and treasured it until P & P 2 came along which so very superior of course (seriously addicted person here). To be fair Elizabeth Garvie who played Elizabeth was quite good, David Rintoul , Darcy, was "wooden". , Lady C wasn't bad either. IMHO,
Sounding off too, DonnaT
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Posted by DonnaT on October 10, 1996 at 18:06:00:
Have always wondered, never sure, is Michaelmas Christmas?
There is not a soul I can ask so I must rely on my fellow addictees . thanks DonnaT
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Posted by Saman on October 10, 1996 at 18:14:56:
: Have always wondered, never sure, is Michaelmas Christmas?
: There is not a soul I can ask so I must rely on my fellow addictees . thanks DonnaT
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According to my trusty Oxford Concise, Michaelmas is a Christian festival in honour of St Michael and falls on 29 September.
Saman
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Posted by Katherine on October 10, 1996 at 18:24:46:
: : : I'm confused. What is this thread now about. Lydia?
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: :
The person whose message I was replying to signed herself as "Lydia, Unfortunately" (surely you know the old song... "and her tor-so even more so! -- oh Lydia oh Lydia...").
:
: ___________________
: I think I know the song he's referring to. Wasn't that the song the character of Dinah Lord sang in "The Philadelphia Story" ?
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The only Person I have ever heard sing it was GROUCHO MARX
Katherine
Posted by Rose on October 10, 1996 at 18:50:08:
: : I just recently rewatched the P&P1. Second time is a charm. I really enjoyed this Lizzy, she is more like the character described in the book. Light, airy, whereas, Jennifer Ehle is more endowed. Obviously this Darcy did nothing for me, he was not bad. The casting of Mr Bennet, Mrs Bennet, Lady Catherine, and last but not least, Mr Collins were dead on. This production was more realistic and a more British production. BBC serialisations were all made this way. Try sitting thru Mansfield Park another Austen adaptation. Any way, this version is very good, but we have been tainted with Firth's Darcy and Ehle's Lizzy. Oh yeah, Julia Sawahla plays a damn good Lydia. The one in P&P1 did nothing for me. Laura
:
: ___________________
:
: : I agree with you on all points, Laura. Much as I love P&P2, I still love #1 as well. I think it showed the evolution of Lizzy almost better than P&P2. Grace
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I think that PP1 had a better Elizabeth, and I preferred the ending. It seemed strange to me that after acting very much in love all they could manage was an 'actors kiss'. (chewing on the top and bottom lip!)
Also PP2 left out some really neat lines Darcy and Elizabeth describing when they had fallen in love "What set you off in the first place?" and "My beauty you'd first withstood..."
Still a wonderful story and I wouldn't mind meeting Colin Firth to see if he still has those longing looks!!
Rose
Posted by Pamela on October 10, 1996 at 19:25:28:
Can anyone tell me where to find pictures or articles about Crispin-Bonham Carter?
I've looked at the local Barnes & Noble in all the movie books for the stars of P&P and Colin Firth
is about the only one that you can find info. on. I appreciated Johanna telling us where to find
the "blonde" picture of Jennifer Ehle, and hope someone can supply info. on where to find Crispie.
I wonder of those are really his blonde curls? Thanks!
Pamela
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Posted by Kelly on October 10, 1996 at 20:17:16:
: Can anyone tell me where to find pictures or articles about Crispin-Bonham Carter?
As Lori was kind enough to tell me ~ go to the following
address for an interview on the A&E homepage:
http://www.aetv.com/specials/pride/pride3c.html
Posted by Lucia on October 10, 1996 at 20:23:47:
: P&P2 fans living in Canada might like to know that the French language
: network (SRC) is currently broadcasting our favorite series in French on
: Wednesday nights at 9:00. Last night was episode 3.
___________________
We've been watching it, but we missed Part 2 because they pre-empted it for something on Bourassa. Was it shown later that night?
Mrs. Bennet sounds even more shrill with the French dubbing. I find the actors sometimes speak much too quickly--as if they are trying to fit all the words in.
Since I have not seen the tapes, only the A&E version, it's a good chance for me to see some of the missed scenes. And to brush up on my French.
Posted by Candace on October 10, 1996 at 21:28:58:
:
: Think about how mrs Bennet must have fussed around.
: : And still worse think about what she would have said or trying to say to Lizzy and
: : Jane about their marital duties (weddingnight) Horrors!!!!!!
: : We can only hope that maybe mrs Gardiner had a word with them about such things.
: : Anna-Karin
: ___________________
: I like the idea of Mrs. Gardiner having a "serious" talk w/ Jane and Lizzie before the wedding.
: It's much better than thinking about how Mrs. Bennet would have explained it. (Of course, Lydia
: may have tried to tell her sisters all about the joys of "marital duties" before she & Wickham left
: to join his regiment.)
: kathleen
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Now that we are on the subject and established that of course Lizzy would need "The Talk" about the wedding night --
What about Darcy? He obviously was quite upset at Wickham when he had that little "Floozy" in his room. Was he indeed
also inexpirianced? In the 19th Century did nice boys do? If so who with?
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Posted by Marsha on October 10, 1996 at 21:57:30:
:
Cheryl::
O.K. Now I must get in here.... I have always thought it interesting that in Austen novels most all marriages are really not appealing, if they are not bad, they are down right quirky (Bennetts, Fanny & John, Mary & "the hunter" from Persuasion). Even those widowed seem to be less then desirable partners (Emma, Northanger Abby) The exception in this case would be the Gardner's. So you must wonder what she was really up to in these novels. Did she make her stories romances because they were popular or did she really feel that love in marriage could be achieved. What was her point?
I think she did believe that romantic love was possible: Mr & Mrs Morland (NA), Henrietta & her cousin (Persuasion)-even though it is in the future, Admiral & Mrs Croft (Persuasion), Mr and Mrs Weston (Emma) seem all to be having very nice marriages. So I suppose it is about even (as in real life). The heroines and heroes of her, fit into the lucky 50% (just as some newlyweds do not: Mr and Mrs Elton (though i suppose they were happy in their own way)).
Also, silly or mismatched couples are necessary in her books, just for the comic effect (make Mrs B a happy and sensible woman, and where is all the fun?) If all the couples were good, there would be nothing to laugh about. Besides, these couples are mismatched, presisely because they did not chose based on love, but on lust (Mr &Mr B), want of an establishment (Charlotte), etc. I think JA believes in paying for her choice.
Another thing is, none of these couples is young. 'Mature' people, according to many comedies of 17-18th cent. are always like that; silly, while young lovers take the centre stage. In Moliere's plays you find pretty much the same case.Impassioned young lovers, and grumpy old men and women. I have always wondered what happened to lovers when they got old? So I think it might be one of the constraints of comedy: identifying with young characters, laughing at the old.
Marsha
Posted by Marsha on October 10, 1996 at 22:21:55:
Today, still indulging my obsession, I found in the Cornell library two different plays based on P&P. One is by Mrs Steele McKay(1900s), and another by Helen Jerome (1930s).
God forbid! They are actually pretty bad! The Milne version, posted on here some time ago, is a masterpiece compared to the two. The final scene in Jerome's play is written to evoke tears from the female part of the audience, an sniffs (at least!) from the male. At first I thought I was reading a Victroian piece. McKay version, though not quite that bad, is dreadful, too. (One of them has darcy coming to see Lizzie, because he met Lady C. on the road!)
Both plays omit the famous snub!!!!!!!!!!!! (so there is no ground for Lizzie's prejudice) and the Meryton dance. Indeed, in one of them, after Mr Bennet payed a visit to Bingley, Bingley just shows on their doorstep one day, saying that now he wants to meet the femals and has brought with him his friend Darcy! (I wonder how he could have induced Darcy to come) Mr B has conversation w/ Darcy during the visit! and gets offended at something he said, and Darcy falls for Lizzie when she says something about people in the country changing as much as in town. Darcy comes across as unbearably rude and snobbish (a male Lady C.)
Horrible! Charlotte jokes with Lady Lucas, that to catch Bingley, she will have to murder Jane (!) and jane coming at that momnet in, gaily (!) asks, 'who wants to murder me?' They all act as some midwestern girls in a samll US town.
After reading those, I had to open and to read some JA P&P 'to calm the agitation of my nerves'
"The indignant" Marsha
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