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Posted by Grace on October 09, 1996 at 09:40:44:
: : Charlotte may be talking about him, but that he did not know that he had been overheard. I felt that later, when Darcy and Col. Fitzwilliam had rushed over to visit them at Mr. and Mrs. Collins home and Lizzie had joked that " I always believe in first impressions and a good opinion once lost is lost forever"
: : : is when he realized that he had been overheard.
: : : Katherine
: :
: : ___________________
: : What a revelation for me! I have found this last part of the first Hunsford visit hard to comprehend fully. I might have concentrated to much on col.Fitzwilliams obvious admiration and contemplated on from where he had heard all "the praise". And it is clear that he is puzzled by Darcy´s behaviou; why he just speaks two sentences to this woman he admires so. Peculiar! And to walk over to the window and stare out of it? Not at all like old lively Fitzwilliam!
: : But it makes perfect sense that he at once knows, how she must have experienced their first meating. Double snub and all. I think he has been through every meeting with Lizzie in his mind several times. But this is not this weeks subject...
: : Thanks anyway Katherine
: : Ann2
:
: ___________________
:
: : I'm new here (enjoying every wonderful word) and hope you will not mind my joining in. Talk of the Hunsford visit makes me think of something I've always found interesting. If I remember the book correctly, Darcy and his cousin arrive early in the week before Easter. Darcy sees Elizabeth at church services only. Then the entire Collins party is invited to tea on Easter night. Doesn't this make you wonder what Darcy is feeling during that time before Easter
: when he knows Elizabeth is so near? Is he determined not to put himself in danger by seeing her(like that last day at Netherfield when he refused to speak to her)/ After all, the group exit from Netherfield was to be the break both for Bingley/Jane..... and for himself/Elizabeth. Now, at Hunsford, what does he do? Obviously seeing her at Easter is enough to make him lose all resolve and to want to see her as often as possible. I like the way the book mentions that
: he is often meeting her in the park and even insisting on turning back with her(wish the movie had shown this). Does he plan his day around these walks in hopes of meeting her in one of her solitary rambles? Finally, one more point on the Hunsford topic: I love the fact that Mr. Darcy sees Charlotte's worth, commenting to Lizzy on Mr. Collins' good fortune in his choice of wife. This shows Mr. Darcy's perception and values.
___________________
:: I just reread what I wrote. I meant to say that except for that very brief formal call at the parsonage at the beginning of the week, Darcy only sees E at church services. For that week, he otherwise stays away, still keeping to his resolve.
Grace
Posted by Mich on October 09, 1996 at 09:44:14:
: : Did Anyone else get hooked on Anne of Green gables and all the sequels?
: : I was a bit old when I first saw them but enjoyed them many many times.
: : Mich
:
: ___________________
: I must have watches Anne of Green Gables 100 times at least.
: Come to think about it Anne is sort of similar to Elizabeth Bennet.
___________________
Yes indeed, they are no doubt kindred spirits.
Mich
Posted by Mich on October 09, 1996 at 09:49:02:
: :
: : : Did Anyone else get hooked on Anne of Green gables and all the sequels?
: : : I was a bit old when I first saw them but enjoyed them many many times.
: : : Mich
: :
: : ___________________
: : Yes, I did. I also saw it late in life (along with Austen- what was I doing during my youth?) but loved the stories and went and bought all the books. I was a little taken aback to find that they were located in the childrens section, but then so was Little Women and I still read that as an adult (however I did discover that book in 5th grade!)
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
: I also just watched Anne of Green Gables and Anne of Avonlea last week with my grandmother. It was her first time, but the umpteenth time for me. Before P&P2 these were my favorite shows. I own all the books but haven't read them all yet. I was just thinking that Anne is spunky like Elizabeth Bennet but she at times was like Marianne Dashwood in her romanticism. And like those other two ladies she grew up, matured, and learned what was important (Gilbert Blythe and not some guy who could gush poetry to her).
___________________
So true, they also both, go through the same type of growth. Gilbert was unlike Darcy in that repect but
I liked him just as much.
Mich
Posted by MICH on October 09, 1996 at 09:51:35:
: : Do you know how they broke it off? I only know that they
: : broke up after the filming of P&P2. I also know that CF was
: : dating some Italian actress, Livia, shortly afterwards.
: : Has Jennifer Ehle dated anyone else after they broke up?
: : Just curious.
: : Paola
:
: From what I have read, Colin Firth seems to leave a lot of very upset ladies in his wake.
: Ann
___________________
He sem to have a great fondness for costars, but only as long as they
are his costar.
Mich
Posted by Amy on October 09, 1996 at 09:53:39:
Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute Testing wrap=soft attribute
Posted by Brigid on October 09, 1996 at 10:00:33:
: : Ann2
: : Suddenly last night I saw Darcy´s face in a new light. When Bingley has asked Jane to dance with him, I think there was envy in Darcy´s face. He considers Jane to be the prettiest girl in the room and now Bingley has "secured" her. I have seen this somewhere - here? About Darcy beimg the older, the wealthier and the more handsome of the two and yet because of Bingley´s social ability he is "the winner".
: You have seen that, perhaps, in "The Making" book in the interview with CF? (That's where I saw it, but it may also have been mentioned here.)
: : And back at Netherfield when they look back on the evening he has to spoil some of Bingley´s heartfelt joy with his snort: She smiles to much! Just sour grapes or what do you think?
: Yes, the grapes do appear a little sour, don't they. ;-)
: Joan, too
___________________
They are sour and Darcy seems a bit like a spoiled child kicking at the fire with his back to the conversation.
Posted by Carolyn on October 09, 1996 at 10:01:38:
: I think that Darcy's house in London is probable and then maybe possibly a trip
: to the Continent. I don't believe Lizzie was ever there and while I don't think
: Darcy would be really into the Continent scene, I think we would enjoy it for a
: short period with his new bride. Maybe take her to the Paris shops for the new
: fashion in dresses.
I too think London is the best bet. However, Paris is out the question. Most of Europe was at war, and Darcy would never expose Lizzy to the risks of traveling in a war zone.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Brigid on October 09, 1996 at 10:11:00:
:
: : I think that Darcy's house in London is probable and then maybe possibly a trip
: : to the Continent. I don't believe Lizzie was ever there and while I don't think
: : Darcy would be really into the Continent scene, I think we would enjoy it for a
: : short period with his new bride. Maybe take her to the Paris shops for the new
: : fashion in dresses.
: I too think London is the best bet. However, Paris is out the question. Most of Europe was at war, and Darcy would never expose Lizzy to the risks of traveling in a war zone.
___________________
I think that Lizzy would have been anxious to get accustomed to Pemberley and feel at home there.
Posted by Mary H on October 09, 1996 at 10:14:34:
: But don´t you all think it adds to the impression that the merryton assembly was not in the line of amusement and pleasure customay to Darcy and Bingley and their party. It is just outside the windows and men are drinling and shouting ... no breading at all as Darcy puts it. (No if this is the new screen it is no good for me) I cannot see all of my message any more. Wonder why?
: Ann2
___________________
Actually, this is the best reason I've heard so far for including that scene in the film. Though I don't think the upper classes expected much from the lower in terms of breeding, still, it would have supported Darcy and Miss Bingley's impression that the whole assembly was lacking in refinement.
Mary H
Follow Ups:
Posted by MaryH on October 09, 1996 at 10:24:58:
: : : : I have got a cheap copy (Penguin popular classics) of P&P2, and as I am a librarian I would be horrified at the idea of a library book treated in the way I use this book. I have long before the discussion scheme was thought of) marked out where the six fdifferent videos end. I have every musical piece named in the margin.The spoken lines that are identical in Austens text, or the corresponding text that has been transformed to spoken lines are underlined in green. Everything that has to do with Darcy is underlined in red. The oxford edition by Chapman has a dating for the events in the novel. And I have tried to complement that and every day is noted in the margin.
: : : : Ann2
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : What a wonderful annotated edition you have made for yourself! I would love to see your copy as I am much too lazy to do such a thing myself! Although I do not have the film dialogue marked in my book, when I read those passages, I do *hear* the actors voices saying the lines.
: : : Cheryl
: :
: : ___________________
: :
: : I would also love to have a copy of your personally annotated edition. Maybe you should put up a website for it, or could it be included here?
: : MaryH
:
: ___________________
: Hallo MaryH! I am quite new in the Html buisness but I am taking a course now, so who knows. The dates in Chapmans edition are maybe already somewhere on the net?
: Ann2
___________________
The Chapman dates would be nice, but I would really be interested to see the notes on where the dialog in book and script correspond exactly and where they diverge. I would also love to know all of the music used (though I'm sure this could be found in other sources). I don't know html myself, but I keep reading about all this new software that is coming out soon which will make it possible to put up websites without knowing html (much like desktop publishing software, only for the Internet). I would be willing to help with this effort (what better way to really learn the novel).
Best-- MaryH
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 09, 1996 at 10:26:58:
I agree, Ann2 and Mary H. This is supported by a similar device Davies or somebody mentions in the Making book.
When Caroline steps out of the carriage at Gracechurch Street, the script direction is "Miss Bingley slumming." And she plays it perfectly. Not only is her nose in the air, but I think she even gives a little sniff.
Odious! Probably her father grew up next door.
Posted by Mary H on October 09, 1996 at 10:32:09:
I think it really shows the difference between British and American adaptations. American adaptations have to first convince the producers that an American audience will go to see a movie based on a 200 year-old novel. The Brits know Jane Austen works without added sight gags, etc.
: : Can't wait for the BBC Emma.
: : MaryH
: ___________________
: It saddens me to say that I believe you are correct re the assumptions made about an American audience -- sight gags instead of witty dialogue!
: kathleen
___________________
At least we know that they are only assumptions and not necessarily the truth.
MaryH
Posted by Amy on October 09, 1996 at 10:34:51:
I have every musical piece named in the margin.The spoken lines that are identical in Austens text, or the corresponding text that has been transformed to spoken lines are underlined in green. Everything that has to do with Darcy is underlined in red. The oxford edition by Chapman has a dating for the events in the novel. And I have tried to complement that and every day is noted in the margin.
: : : : : Ann2
: : : :
: ___________________
:
: The Chapman dates would be nice, but I would really be interested to see the notes on where the dialog in book and script correspond exactly and where they diverge. I . I would be willing to help with this effort (what better way to really learn the novel).
: Best-- MaryH
___________________
Henry, help us out would you? Isn't your text based on the Chapman edition? Did you use his dates for your chronology?
Amy
Posted by Donna on October 09, 1996 at 10:52:30:
: : Charlotte may be talking about him, but that he did not know that he had been overheard. I felt that later, when Darcy and Col. Fitzwilliam had rushed over to visit them at Mr. and Mrs. Collins home and Lizzie had joked that " I always believe in first impressions and a good opinion once lost is lost forever"
: : : is when he realized that he had been overheard.
: : : Katherine
: :
: : ___________________
: : What a revelation for me! I have found this last part of the first Hunsford visit hard to comprehend fully. I might have concentrated to much on col.Fitzwilliams obvious admiration and contemplated on from where he had heard all "the praise". And it is clear that he is puzzled by Darcy´s behaviou; why he just speaks two sentences to this woman he admires so. Peculiar! And to walk over to the window and stare out of it? Not at all like old lively Fitzwilliam!
: : But it makes perfect sense that he at once knows, how she must have experienced their first meating. Double snub and all. I think he has been through every meeting with Lizzie in his mind several times. But this is not this weeks subject...
: : Thanks anyway Katherine
: : Ann2
:
: ___________________
:
: : I'm new here (enjoying every wonderful word) and hope you will not mind my joining in. Talk of the Hunsford visit makes me think of something I've always found interesting. If I remember the book correctly, Darcy and his cousin arrive early in the week before Easter. Darcy sees Elizabeth at church services only. Then the entire Collins party is invited to tea on Easter night. Doesn't this make you wonder what Darcy is feeling during that time before Easter
: when he knows Elizabeth is so near? Is he determined not to put himself in danger by seeing her(like that last day at Netherfield when he refused to speak to her)/ After all, the group exit from Netherfield was to be the break both for Bingley/Jane..... and for himself/Elizabeth. Now, at Hunsford, what does he do? Obviously seeing her at Easter is enough to make him lose all resolve and to want to see her as often as possible. I like the way the book mentions that
: he is often meeting her in the park and even insisting on turning back with her(wish the movie had shown this). Does he plan his day around these walks in hopes of meeting her in one of her solitary rambles? Finally, one more point on the Hunsford topic: I love the fact that Mr. Darcy sees Charlotte's worth, commenting to Lizzy on Mr. Collins' good fortune in his choice of wife. This shows Mr. Darcy's perception and values.
___________________
I wish they would of showed more of the meetings. I agree with you on all points.
Lizzie has to admit to that too.
Donna
Posted by Donna on October 09, 1996 at 10:55:36:
: : Why do you blame the wives for the mens bad habits. Mr. Hurst/Mrs.Hurst nobody drives you to drink that a personal choice.
: : What is Mr. Hurst responsibilty to his wife? Looks like to me
: : he is as much to blame for her faults. Mrs. Bennet never ever speaks ill of her husband and takes constant teasing.
:
: ___________________
: All I have to say is, you get what you settle for. Mrs. Hurst married a man "of more fashion than fortune," I believe is what Austen terms Mr. Hurst. Mrs. Hurst wasn't going to change him, but who really says she wants to?
___________________
Someone said she drove him to drink, but you seem to think he always drank.
Donna
Posted by Lori T. on October 09, 1996 at 11:24:52:
However, Paris is out the question. Most of Europe was at war, and Darcy would never expose Lizzy to the risks of traveling in a war zone.
:
: ___________________
: I think that Lizzy would have been anxious to get accustomed to Pemberley and feel at home there.
Oops!!! Should never assume :)!!!!
I wasn't sure exactly what year that P&P was set but I assumed it was while Napolean was on Elba. So, if not the
continent then Scotland. I'm sure that someone of Darcy's
wealth would take some kind of honeymoon.
While I'm sure that Lizzy would want to see her new home and
get acquainted with her staff, I think she would have enjoyed a little trip to get used to being a wife to Darcy -
a little time together. If not alone, only with the Bingleys.
What do you think?
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann2 on October 09, 1996 at 11:26:04:
: . . . (Or was she actually
: : : : subconciously encouraging him?)
: : : : Ann
: _________________
: : : I think that Lizzy at some uncouncious level was attracted to
: : : Darcy even if she disliked him It almost seem like this
: : : uncounsous attraction can have fueled her anger at him
: : : Anna-Karin
: : __________________
: : I agree. She thinks about him too often to be indifferent.
: : kathleen
: ___________________
:
: Yes. Oh yes, the mutual admiration while fighting the urge is what makes it all so sexy. Moonlighting, Anything But Love, Cheers. Anybody see the new CBS show, Mr & Mrs Smith?
: Amy
___________________
Yes. I wanted to make this point when we were discussing her trying to sketch his character. Why bother if she wasn´t pussled by him deep down inside
somewhere. Amy, why do I from time to time get the feeling that you think we are sinking to deep into addiction? IS there such a thing as a show on Mr&Mrs Smith? Sounds terribly
intresting, why don´t you tell us more about it?
Ann2
Posted by Johanna on October 09, 1996 at 11:28:11:
: : In some places Lizzie's voice sounds like it is dubbed in -- or what do I know, maybe every time someone is off screen the audio is in a seperate recording. I too was a little confused about who said, "better and better," but like Cheryl assumed it was Lizzy.
: : The other place her voice sounds odd or different to me in after Mr Collins' odious condoling visit. Kitty asks if he's gone and Lizzy answers "Forever with any luck."
: : Amy
:
: ___________________
: According to "The Making" book, there were a number of places in which sound had to be re-dubbed because of problems in the original sound track (such as sounds of airplanes overhead). This can be very difficult to do. The example of this which bothers me the most is Darcy's line, "No one admitted to the priviledge of hearing you could find anything wanting." It's evident that this line ws re-dubbed - the pitch doesn't quite match, and there is less "hollowness" in the room than in the part of that speech that comes immediately before and after this line.
: Joan, too
___________________
Joan, Too! I thought I was the only one who heard that!!!
Johanna
Follow Ups:
Posted by Mich on October 09, 1996 at 12:05:36:
: However, Paris is out the question. Most of Europe was at war, and Darcy would never expose Lizzy to the risks of traveling in a war zone.
: :
: : ___________________
: : I think that Lizzy would have been anxious to get accustomed to Pemberley and feel at home there.
: Oops!!! Should never assume :)!!!!
: I wasn't sure exactly what year that P&P was set but I assumed it was while Napolean was on Elba. So, if not the
: continent then Scotland. I'm sure that someone of Darcy's
: wealth would take some kind of honeymoon.
: While I'm sure that Lizzy would want to see her new home and
: get acquainted with her staff, I think she would have enjoyed a little trip to get used to being a wife to Darcy -
: a little time together. If not alone, only with the Bingleys.
: What do you think?
___________________
I agree, the wedding night alone would have cause
her some fright. I think she would prefer to get to know Darcy before taking on Pemberley
mich
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 09, 1996 at 12:25:14:
: Amy, just wanted to let you know that I posted a message today to the firthlist telling them that I am NOT a closet P&P BB fan but out of the closet and just so you know some firthladies radicals have started a Jeremy Northam BB that looks suspiciously like this one. I even think the person who questioned this BB has posted to the JN BB. Amy we love this BB and hope that it lives long and prospers. Well we can never run out of things to talk about regarding P&P because it is the best story ever written. Laura
___________________
What exactly is the Firthlister's problem with this board??
What are they complaining about?
Just curious.
Ann
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