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Posted by kathleen on October 08, 1996 at 16:56:47:
:
: : Much as I hate to admit anything good of Miss Bingley, I agree. JA says that if she knew what pain she was causing her friend, she would have undoubtedly kept silent, but she just thought she was making fun of Lizzie. How do good intentions misfire!
: : Marsha
:
: ___________________
: Oops. I just went back and read it and you are right. (That's the problem with not having the book in front of you -- you have to leave the bb to check the online version.
: Well, I suppose that is something nice we could say about Miss Bingley. She doesn't knowingly insult her friends. Had she known about Wickham and Georgiana, she would have been too well bred to bring it up in have brought up in company.
: MaryH
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One the other hand, she knows that Darcy "cannot bear to hear George Wickham mentioned" [as she
tells Elizabeth at the Netherfield ball] and still she brings up the subject in Darcy's presence. Her jealousy
gets the better of her consideration, in this case, since she hopes to remind Darcy of Elizabeth's partiality
to Wickham and the Bennet girls (Lydia & Kitty) silliness w/ all of the officers.
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anna-Karin schander on October 08, 1996 at 17:03:12:
: Charlotte on falling in love:
: "We can all begin freely--a slight preference is natural enough:
: but there are very few of us who have heart enough to be really
: in love without encouragement."
: Darcy seems to be a man who does possess that "utmost force of
: passion"--enough to fall in love with Lizzy without encouragement.
: But then, he thought she was encouraging him, expecting and
: awaiting him. So, was it his pride fancying encouragement when
: there was none, or his love ignoring the uncomfortable fact that
: she was not encouraging him. (Or was she actually subconciously
: encouraging him?)
: Ann
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I think that Lizzy at some uncouncious level was attracted to
Darcy even if she disliked him It almost seem like this
uncounsous attraction can have fueled her anger at him
She seem s a little to intrested in him than simpel dislike suggests
and she is countinouly speaking about him and tries to tease
him.Even with Wickham darcy is one of the main topics of conversation.
And the first time she sees Ann de Bourgh her first thoughts is
about Darcy and spite fully says that Anne would make a good wife for
him.she almost seem jealous.another important fact is that she keeps
on being angry at him for having slighted her once at a ball for moths.
While she does not seem to be so angry with Wickham after he dropped her
and he had courted her for at least a month. In the case of wickham
it seem like it is mostly her vanity that suffer.
Anna-Karin
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Posted by Amy on October 08, 1996 at 17:04:14:
started a Jeremy Northam BB that looks suspiciously like this one.
___________________
Laura,
Interesting. Where is it? Thanks for your courage.
Amy
Posted by kathleen on October 08, 1996 at 17:14:38:
: : Darcy seems to be a man who does possess that "utmost force of
: : passion"--enough to fall in love with Lizzy without encouragement.
: : But then, he thought she was encouraging him . . . (Or was she actually
: : subconciously encouraging him?)
: : Ann
:
: ___________________
: I think that Lizzy at some uncouncious level was attracted to
: Darcy even if she disliked him It almost seem like this
: uncounsous attraction can have fueled her anger at him
: Anna-Karin
__________________
I agree. She thinks about him too often to be indifferent. She was attracted
to him, at least at a subconscious level, and while she may not have intentially
been encouraging him, her words and actions could easily be perceived by Darcy
in that light. Especially by a man of his wealth and position.
kathleen
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Posted by Joan, too on October 08, 1996 at 17:19:29:
: : Can anyone shed some light (no pun intended) on the practice of having runners with torches leading coaches to the balls? I remember reading in the Making of P&P2 that balls were timed to coincide with full moons so as to have as much light as possible for arriving carriages. In the film it showed men running in front of the carriages and I wondered if they ran all the way fromthe residence to the ball or if they were hired by the ball giver to escort carriages onto the property to deposit attendees. Any ideas? Oh Mysterious H.C., where are you?
: : Cheryl
: It doesn't seem to only be at balls. When the Gardiners and Lizzy leave Pemberley after dinner, there are runners in front of their carriage too.
: Ann
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I suspect that owners of grand estates provided this service at least in part to ensure that their well-manicured grounds were not trampled by coaches accidentally leaving the road in the dark.
Joan, too
Posted by Amy on October 08, 1996 at 17:21:15:
. . . (Or was she actually
: : : subconciously encouraging him?)
: : : Ann
_________________
: : I think that Lizzy at some uncouncious level was attracted to
: : Darcy even if she disliked him It almost seem like this
: : uncounsous attraction can have fueled her anger at him
: : Anna-Karin
: __________________
: I agree. She thinks about him too often to be indifferent.
: kathleen
___________________
Yes. Oh yes, the mutual admiration while fighting the urge is what makes it all so sexy. Moonlighting, Anything But Love, Cheers. Anybody see the new CBS show, Mr & Mrs Smith?
Amy
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Posted by MaryH on October 08, 1996 at 17:23:09:
:
: :
: : : Emma Thompson's adaptation was amazing . . . . It was almost an impressionistic
: : : interpretation of S&S.
: : : Ann
: :
: : ___________________
: : Yes, I felt the same way, but I did not like the adaptation of EMMA as much, because I thought they tilted the line of irony and eccentricity of some of the characters into too much comedy and down-right weirdness. It seemed to be a student imitation of a renaissance painting: nothing is really changed (though a lot deleted) but the shadows, the overtones, the texture, everything that makes it special - most of it is gone. I'm really looking forward to seeing A&E EMMA!
: : Marsha
: ___________________
: Hear, hear! Much as I enjoyed watching EMMA (several times, I admit), I thought the tone was wrong. The casting was generally good, and the film was beautiful to look at, but . . . a jovial Mr. Woodhouse? a too old Jane Fairfax? and an Emma who only wants to bring happiness to Harriet Smith? (Emma's meddling has always seemeed more like the desire to run people's lives to me.) Oh well, it is a good Austen fix until the A&E/BBC version.
: kathleen
___________________
Not to mention a too young Mr. Knightly (though I loved Jeremy Northam) and an ugly Harriet (with apologies to Toni Collette, she's a wonderful comedienne). The "modern" humor in Emma bothered me. It seemed so unnecessary, as the story is already so witty. I think it really shows the difference between British and American adaptations. American adaptations have to first convince the producers that an American audience will go to see a movie based on a 200 year-old novel. The Brits know Jane Austen works without added sight gags, etc.
Can't wait for the BBC Emma.
MaryH
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Posted by Paola on October 08, 1996 at 17:28:14:
: : : ___________________
: : :
Do you know how they broke it off? I only know that they
broke up after the filming of P&P2. I also know that CF was
dating some Italian actress, Livia, shortly afterwards.
Has Jennifer Ehle dated anyone else after they broke up?
Just curious.
Paola
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 08, 1996 at 17:30:27:
No, do drop by. Just be nice, remember to tuck some lace in the morning hours, and slap only Miss Bingley. (Dancing allowed.)
Posted by Maureen on October 08, 1996 at 17:43:58:
I was wondering your opinion on Mrs. Bennet. During the course of the book, and P&P2, does she get worse???? To me, I believe that she gets worse as the movies go on in every respect. She has no class and her motivation is ill - to attempt to marry her daughters well. Doesn't she see that with her standing the hope of them ever marrying well was slim to none to say the least?? And that business with Lydia - she became so sick over it, and then proceeded to think that it was the greatest thing that ever happened! Oy, she is such a pain in the a$$.
-Maureen
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Posted by Rebecca on October 08, 1996 at 17:51:02:
: I like this little put down of Miss Bingley by Darcy. But I cannot believe that she fully understands that it was directed principally at her. She did feel uneasy with his answer (she "was not so entirely satisfied with this reply as to continue the subject") but if she really understood him to say (as we do) "and I see through all of *your* little maneuvers, too" surely she would not have continued in the same way. Or perhaps she was desperate enough that she could not help herself. Poor Miss Bingley. I almost feel sorry for her (NOT!)
: Cheryl
___________________
I agree with you. While she was uneasy about his reply, I don't think she ever got on to his comments being
a reflection on her. In fact, she is really quite dense, fortunately, about Darcy's reaction. He goes out of
his way to discourage her -- the telling her about Elizabeth's "fine eyes" was a
deliberately done to show her that he is not at all interested in Miss Bingley.
Rebecca
Posted by Cheryl on October 08, 1996 at 17:51:29:
Anybody see the new CBS show, Mr & Mrs Smith?
: Amy
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I, miss a chance to savor the delights of Scott Bakula? I am still mourning the loss of Sam Beckett!
Cheryl
Posted by Cheryl on October 08, 1996 at 17:55:25:
: I agree, I don't see how Darcy could have lived with Elizabeth had she accepted his first proposal.
: He still had so much pride then and ill feelings toward her family.
: Bea
___________________
Yes, he had to learn to love Lizzy, not in spite of her unfortunate family, but because that family has made her the person he loves. The two cannot be seperated (although one can try- how far is it from Pemberly to Longbourn? I pray it is not *too* easy a distance!)
Cheryl
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Posted by Cheryl on October 08, 1996 at 18:17:08:
: I was wondering your opinion on Mrs. Bennet. During the course of the book, and P&P2, does she get worse???? To me, I believe that she gets worse as the movies go on in every respect. She has no class and her motivation is ill - to attempt to marry her daughters well. Doesn't she see that with her standing the hope of them ever marrying well was slim to none to say the least?? And that business with Lydia - she became so sick over it, and then proceeded to think that it was the greatest thing that ever happened! Oy, she is such a pain in the a$$.
: -Maureen
___________________
Yes, she is pretty bad throughout the whole of the book (or as Amy would say: "bad bad bad!)
However, in her defense (I must still have some residual guilt about smacking all those people) with the Bennet estate entailed, the girls, as Lizzy says, have little to reccommend them but their charms. Having five daughters to see provided for consumed her every waking moment, and the only way a woman could be provided for, who was not wealthy herself, was to marry well.
The reason she recovers so quickly from Lydia's escapade is that she ended up getting married. Mrs. Bennet is able to overlook the road to the altar as long as it did, in fact, lead to the altar. One down, four to go.
Cheryl
Posted by Amy on October 08, 1996 at 18:17:36:
: Yes, he had to learn to love Lizzy, not in spite of her unfortunate family, but because that family has made her the person he loves.
___________________
Cheryl,
Pray write and tell how they could have produced Lizzie. Mr B's sardonic wit and flippancy with the world, I see that passed along -- and to her credit. But other than that, she must have been hatched.
She did not have a governess, so papa taught her, right? He must have given her both the principals and the qualities Darcy's education lacked. Then I suppose Mr B got tired of teaching. Mary could cause that. I know many families in which the oldest get not only more photographs taken and more care with bottle sterilization but a lot more reading time and care.
Amy
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Posted by Cheryl on October 08, 1996 at 18:29:31:
: Pray write and tell how they could have produced Lizzie. Mr B's sardonic wit and flippancy with the world, I see that passed along -- and to her credit. But other than that, she must have been hatched.
: Amy
:
___________________
Mr. Bennet is easy to see in Lizzy. It is harder to see Mrs. Bennet in her. Sometimes children, especially quick ones like Lizzy, can see the absurdity of their parents early on and their behaviour can be seen as a reaction against it. Lizzy seems the very opposite of her mother, but may not some of that be a reaction against her mother? I have a dear friend who grew up in an alcoholic home and now refuses to touch any alcohol at all for fear she may turn into her parents.
But I do like the notion of an immaculate conception for Lizzy, or perhaps she sprang fully formed from the forehead of Jane Austen.
Cheryl
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Posted by Amy on October 08, 1996 at 18:47:33:
:::Sometimes children, especially quick ones like Lizzy, can see the absurdity of their parents early on and their behaviour can be seen as a reaction against it.
Good point. Reverse role model.
:::perhaps she sprang fully formed from the forehead of Jane Austen.
___________________
Yes. Thank you for reminding me that she isn't real. We all forget, don't we?
Amy
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Posted by Anne on October 08, 1996 at 19:20:45:
Her jealousy gets the better of her consideration,
___________________
And serves to increases Darcy's feelings for Lizzy by her kind gesture
to Georgiana.
Anne
Posted by kathleen on October 08, 1996 at 19:32:13:
: :
: : :
: : : : Emma Thompson's adaptation was amazing . . . . It was almost an impressionistic
: : : : interpretation of S&S.
: : : : Ann
: : :
: : : ___________________
: : : Yes, I felt the same way, but I did not like the adaptation of EMMA as much, because I thought they tilted the line of irony and eccentricity of some of the characters into too much comedy and down-right weirdness. It seemed to be a student imitation of a renaissance painting: nothing is really changed (though a lot deleted) but the shadows, the overtones, the texture, everything that makes it special - most of it is gone. I'm really looking forward to seeing A&E EMMA!
: : : Marsha
: : ___________________
: : Hear, hear! Much as I enjoyed watching EMMA (several times, I admit), I thought the tone was wrong. The casting was generally good, and the film was beautiful to look at, but . . . a jovial Mr. Woodhouse? a too old Jane Fairfax? and an Emma who only wants to bring happiness to Harriet Smith? (Emma's meddling has always seemeed more like the desire to run people's lives to me.) Oh well, it is a good Austen fix until the A&E/BBC version.
: : kathleen
:
: ___________________
: Not to mention a too young Mr. Knightly (though I loved Jeremy Northam) and an ugly Harriet (with apologies to Toni Collette, she's a wonderful comedienne). The "modern" humor in Emma bothered me. It seemed so unnecessary, as the story is already so witty. I think it really shows the difference between British and American adaptations. American adaptations have to first convince the producers that an American audience will go to see a movie based on a 200 year-old novel. The Brits know Jane Austen works without added sight gags, etc.
: Can't wait for the BBC Emma.
: MaryH
___________________
It saddens me to say that I believe you are correct re the assumptions made about an American audience -- sight gags instead of witty dialogue!
kathleen
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