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Posted by kathleen on October 08, 1996 at 14:44:49:
: : : Darcy seems to be a man who does possess that "utmost force of
: : : passion"--enough to fall in love with Lizzy without encouragement.
: : ___________________
: : Don't know. Is it possible Darcy is an exception to Charlotte's rule since he is so very rich and must assume that everyone must want him?
:
: ___________________
: And handsome! Who, but Lizzie, would object to such a partner?
: Ann2
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But if she had accepted his first proposal without loving him, she would not have deserved him. Just as he did not deserve her at the time of his first proposal. As someone else has mentioned, both of them had to grow before the happy ending was deserved.
kathleen
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Posted by MaryH on October 08, 1996 at 14:55:59:
: : Maybe this was one more of those scenes, used to show that all the world wasn't that affluent, or glittering, or charming or well-mannered?
: : Marsha
: ___________________
: But Austen stayed right away from all that. Maybe Davies was flashbacking and thought he was working on Middlemarch. Eliot did include such things.
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Austen stayed away from all that in P&P, but, as you know, there is a long-ish section in Mansfield Park that deals with Fanny's lower class family. JA did know about the "wrong side of the tracks," she just chose not to go there very often. I think Davis was trying to make a social statement, especially since class is a much bigger issue in the U.K. than the U.S. Then again, maybe he just needed an establishing shot and decided to have some fun with it.
MaryH
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Posted by Cheryl on October 08, 1996 at 15:21:22:
Can anyone shed some light (no pun intended) on the practice of having runners with torches leading coaches to the balls? I remember reading in the Making of P&P2 that balls were timed to coincide with full moons so as to have as much light as possible for arriving carriages. In the film it showed men running in front of the carriages and I wondered if they ran all the way fromthe residence to the ball or if they were hired by the ball giver to escort carriages onto the property to deposit attendees. Any ideas? Oh Mysterious H.C., where are you?
Cheryl
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Posted by Brigid on October 08, 1996 at 15:39:48:
I have discovered another reason why I love P&P. Today I had a meeting with a rather formidable woman and I was quite nervous before it. As I was trying to settle myself before the meeting I thought how would Lizzie handle it. I thought of Lady Catherine, had a good laugh and my nerves were gone. The meeting went quite well and I have Lizzie to thank. Odd but...
Posted by Laura M on October 08, 1996 at 15:49:18:
Amy, just wanted to let you know that I posted a message today to the firthlist telling them that I am NOT a closet P&P BB fan but out of the closet and just so you know some firthladies radicals have started a Jeremy Northam BB that looks suspiciously like this one. I even think the person who questioned this BB has posted to the JN BB. Amy we love this BB and hope that it lives long and prospers. Well we can never run out of things to talk about regarding P&P because it is the best story ever written. Laura
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Posted by Marsha on October 08, 1996 at 15:55:41:
: : I don't think Miss Bingley's affection for Georgiana is genuine, but affected for Mr. Darcy's behalf. Remember how she brings up Wickham in front of Georgiana in the music room scene at Pemberley? Of course, she does it to embarrass Lizzy, but she doesn't seem to care that she's also hurting Georgiana in the process. Her attentions to Jane are fine when she is in the country and perhaps bored and looking for amusement. But she abandons Jane quickly enough once she decides she might interfere with her plans for Mr. Bingley.
: : Mary
:
: Miss Bingley did not know about Wickham and Georgiana. That is not something Darcy or his sister would have wanted people to know about.
: Ann
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Much as I hate to admit anything good of Miss Bingley, I agree. JA says that if she knew what pain she was causing her friend, she would have undoubtedly kept silent, but she just thought she was making fun of Lizzie. How do good intentions misfire!
Marsha
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Posted by Ann on October 08, 1996 at 15:56:17:
: Can anyone shed some light (no pun intended) on the practice of having runners with torches leading coaches to the balls? I remember reading in the Making of P&P2 that balls were timed to coincide with full moons so as to have as much light as possible for arriving carriages. In the film it showed men running in front of the carriages and I wondered if they ran all the way fromthe residence to the ball or if they were hired by the ball giver to escort carriages onto the property to deposit attendees. Any ideas? Oh Mysterious H.C., where are you?
: Cheryl
It doesn't seem to only be at balls. When the Gardiners and Lizzy leave Pemberley after dinner, there are runners in front of their carriage too.
Ann
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Posted by Ann on October 08, 1996 at 15:59:08:
Is it just me, or is the dark color dress with the diagonal stripes which
Miss Bingley is often wearing absolutely hideous!
Ann
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Posted by Marsha on October 08, 1996 at 16:00:14:
:
: : .
: : : The PP2 production reners Collins somewhat older than he actually is in the book.
: : : Johanna
: : : ps: Was out of town for the weekend, but am loving all the posts! This is great!
: :
: : ___________________
: : Yes, in the book he is 28 (so he tells Lizzie in the explanation of his behavior after the second proposal) The cut that line out of P&P2
: : Marsha
: ___________________
: You mean Darcy, do you not? He is 28 to Lizzie's 20 or 21. The Reverend Mr. Collins is 25 to Charlotte's 27 or 28.
: kathleen
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Yes, sorry!
Marsha
Posted by Kali on October 08, 1996 at 16:08:17:
It always seems that there are disproportionately more female Austen fans than male. Admittedly, many of her themes and most film adaptations are very "chick-friendly," but there is a lot to offer manly menfolk in these stories. In P&P alone, Elizabeth, Mr. Bennet, Darcy, and Charlotte, offer quite grounded notions of love and romance, and other aspects of life, that guys could relate to. It's frustrating that my own brother - sensitive and sensible as he is - never finished reading P&P for his AP English class last year and just about gacks whenever I watch my P&P2 videos. My question is, how do we get men to give her films and books a chance?
- K
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Posted by Carolyn on October 08, 1996 at 16:11:48:
: Can anyone shed some light (no pun intended) on the practice of having runners with torches leading coaches to the balls? I remember reading in the Making of P&P2 that balls were timed to coincide with full moons so as to have as much light as possible for arriving carriages. In the film it showed men running in front of the carriages and I wondered if they ran all the way fromthe residence to the ball or if they were hired by the ball giver to escort carriages onto the property to deposit attendees. Any ideas? Oh Mysterious H.C., where are you?
: Cheryl
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I think that might be ostlers which according to my dictionary is a person who takes charge of the horses. I think they were kind of like a 19th century parking attendant/traffic cop. They would lead the carriage up the front of the house, then lead the carriage/coachman & horses to a proper resting spot. I think they stayed mainly at the residence, though Bingley probably hired extras for a big ball.
Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 08, 1996 at 16:15:43:
: : I am feeling a trifle guilty since I am the one who started all these smacking people around threads and now feel compelled to say something nice about Miss Bingley. It is difficult to come up with something, but after much thought I find that it is Miss Bingley who invited Lizzy to stay at Netherfield til Jane was recovered, not Mr. Bingley as it is depicted in the film. Now, granted, she does this grudgingly and more out of a sense of obligation and hospitality than out of concern for Jane or Lizzy, but we must be content with any port in a storm!
: : Cheryl
: ___________________
: What about when Caroline gets to know Jane better for the sake of her brother??? She invites Jane to Netherfield so they can become better acquainted and become friends. She also favors Jane with every possible thread when they first meet at the Meryton assembly, where their were scarce gentlemen and more than one lady was without a partener. What about her feelings toward Georgianna??? Aren't those genuine enough??? Or are those a masquerade for Darcy to see that her heart can be easily touched??? I can't believe that all of her efforts were just for the sake of Darcy's attention. What happened before the book began??? Were those two matched or was Caroline just pining over Darcy, attempting to make herself the ideal mistress of Pemberly???
: - Maureen
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I think that for Caroline Bingley. Darcy and Pemberly was as insepparable as siameze twins.
she wanted to get married to get a home of her own and do not have to always live
with her sister or brother and marriage was the only wayfor her to get it.
Darcy could provide her with all that she wanted.A magnific house social status
(something the Bingley sisters wanted since the Darcys was of an old distinguished
family with links to the aristocraty (Darcys mother was daughter to an earl).
All the things that the Bingleys wanted since the Bingleys wealth was aqquired in trade
something the bingley sisters was ashamed of. Take to that that Darcy was the best
friend of their brother.So Caroline had at least in her own mind every reason to
try to get Darcy.Take to that the fact that he was a very handsome man.
She seem not tohave been a particulary warm person. I think she thaught that she
would be a good wife for him.he would provide her with social status and a home.
she would in return run his house be a hostess at his parties and be a reprsentative wife
for him in the high society of that time.She would also perform her marital duties
that is try to give him an heir.(I think she would mostly see it as a duty she does seem a rather
cold person but she would probably think it a reasonable prize to pay for all the status
and wealth a marriage to him would give her.
Annna-Karin
Ann
s
sta
s
Posted by Bea on October 08, 1996 at 16:19:16:
: I agree. Especially since Lizzy had already been set up as a rival per
: Darcy's comment about her "fine eyes".
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Something nice about Miss Bingley.... she has a nice brother!?!?! She let him have
"all the goodness and all the appearance of it", without taking any for herself.
How unselfish!
Bea
Posted by Bea on October 08, 1996 at 16:21:14:
: What a marvelous catch -- you must be right! Be sure to look at the paintings at Rosings and then at one of Lady Catherine's hats. In an interview, the actress playing Lady C comments on the connection.
: kathleen
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Incredible, yet another reason (like I need one) to re-watch P&P2!
Bea
Posted by Bea on October 08, 1996 at 16:27:19:
:
: ___________________
: But if she had accepted his first proposal without loving him, she would not have deserved him. Just as he did not deserve her at the time of his first proposal. As someone else has mentioned, both of them had to grow before the happy ending was deserved.
: kathleen
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I agree, I don't see how Darcy could have lived with Elizabeth had she accepted his first proposal.
He still had so much pride then and ill feelings toward her family.
Bea
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Posted by Mary on October 08, 1996 at 16:36:03:
: Much as I hate to admit anything good of Miss Bingley, I agree. JA says that if she knew what pain she was causing her friend, she would have undoubtedly kept silent, but she just thought she was making fun of Lizzie. How do good intentions misfire!
: Marsha
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Oops. I just went back and read it and you are right. (That's the problem with not having the book in front of you -- you have to leave the bb to check the online version.
Well, I suppose that is something nice we could say about Miss Bingley. She doesn't knowingly insult her friends. Had she known about Wickham and Georgiana, she would have been too well bred to bring it up in have brought up in company.
MaryH
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Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 08, 1996 at 16:38:17:
: In an earlier conversation, you were stating the different ages in the main characters. I am wondering when Mr & Mrs Bennet were married and how old were they??? Also I am wondering if Wickham is older or younger than Darcy??? How old can the Gardiners be???
: Thanx,
: Maureen
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In the book Darcy is saying in his letter to Elisabeth that he
and Wickham were of almost the same age.And Darcy is 27 when the book begins
and 28 when it ends.So Wickham must be around that.
Anna-Karin
Posted by Maureen on October 08, 1996 at 16:48:03:
: Amy, just wanted to let you know that I posted a message today to the firthlist telling them that I am NOT a closet P&P BB fan but out of the closet and just so you know some firthladies radicals have started a Jeremy Northam BB that looks suspiciously like this one. I even think the person who questioned this BB has posted to the JN BB. Amy we love this BB and hope that it lives long and prospers. Well we can never run out of things to talk about regarding P&P because it is the best story ever written. Laura
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Do they really have a firth Bulletin board??? I have been writing to Carol, the woman who runs it, asking for her to add a BB just like this one so other people could talk about their love for Colin Firth. but Carol has totally ignored my letters, so I really try not to go there anymore. I mean, at least I have the decency to email people back!!
Angered at that site, maureen
Posted by Joan, too on October 08, 1996 at 16:50:08:
:
: : : In an interview, the actress playing Lady C comments on the connection.
: : : kathleen
: :
: : ___________________
: : Where did you find an interview with Barbara Leigh-Hunt (Lady C.)? I'd love to hear what else she had to say!
: : Joan, too
: ___________________
: In The Making of Pride and Prejudice, on p. 54 there is a short blurb about costumes.
: kathleen
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Ah - I misunderstood - I thought that the above implied that there was a separate interview "out there" in which she might have said more than what was to be found in "The Making."
Joan, too
Posted by kathleen on October 08, 1996 at 16:50:53:
:
: Is it just me, or is the dark color dress with the diagonal stripes which
: Miss Bingley is often wearing absolutely hideous!
: Ann
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Indeed; and what's with the hats she and Mrs. Hurst wear even at home?
Caroline is single, so she wouldn't have to have her head covered, and these are
very fancy hats (maybe that's the answer -- fancy, EXPENSIVE hats!).
kathleen
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