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Posted by Bea on October 07, 1996 at 16:34:11:
: Bea said:
:
: You didn't miss a thing. Nobody has ever asked about this, so I can't count it as a frequently asked question. Anyway I am not a good enough documentation writer to explain such a thing in an FAQ intended in part for brand new visitors. Should I do a power users' FAQ?
: Amy
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Amy,
Thanks for the update. I thought I was going nuts last nite. Anyway, I just didn't want to start up an old thread if it had been one.
THanks again,
Bea
Posted by Amy on October 07, 1996 at 16:38:06:
Carolyn,
Good catch on the pictures. I never would have seen that.
Amy
Posted by Amy on October 07, 1996 at 16:41:10:
In some places Lizzie's voice sounds like it is dubbed in -- or what do I know, maybe every time someone is off screen the audio is in a seperate recording. I too was a little confused about who said, "better and better," but like Cheryl assumed it was Lizzy.
The other place her voice sounds odd or different to me in after Mr Collins' odious condoling visit. Kitty asks if he's gone and Lizzy answers "Forever with any luck."
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Katherine on October 07, 1996 at 16:42:25:
: : In A&E versions it was quite clear that Darcy Knew Lizzie had heard him but I didn't think the book
: : made that clear. She seemed to tease him later about it but do you think at this point he knew
: : she had heard him?
: : Mich
:
: ___________________
: I agree we get that impression in the film, but not in the book. However, you can argue that he does not know he was overheard in the film also. Lizzy walks past him, attracting his attention, she talks to Charlotte, they glance at him and laugh. He may not know that he was overheard, but he does know that he is the object of their tete-a-tete, which surprises and intrigues him.
: Cheryl
I always have always felt that Darcy was just feeling awkward when he realized that Lizzie and Charlotte may be talking about him, but that he did not know that he had been overheard. I felt that later, when Darcy and Col. Fitzwilliam had rushed over to visit them at Mr. and Mrs. Collins home and Lizzie had joked that " I always believe in first impressions and a good opinion once lost is lost forever"
is when he realized that he had ben overheard.
Katherine
Follow Ups:
Posted by Mary on October 07, 1996 at 16:46:04:
:
: : Miss Bingly and Mrs. Hurst are a hoot to watch in this adaptation. Their oh so superior airs, the utter disdain and comtempt they in which theyhold the inhabitants of Meryton, Miss Bingly's pathetic chasing of Darcy are all great fun to watch and I bet the actors had a marvelous time with their roles. But I do not laugh at them when I read the book, where they come off not as comical but as cruel, especially in their treatment of Jane during her illness. They are all politeness when condoling with the invalid (even though, we learn, they only do it out of boredom because the men are out shooting) . . . I enjoy *watching* the superior sisters, but would not be able stay in the same house with them without smacking them!
: : Cheryl
: ___________________
: I agree with you -- in fact, I suspect Elizabeth would agree with you. But, she and Jane were guests in Bingley's house, and it probably wasn't considered polite to smack people, even if they were jerks.
: Something I wonder about -- would the viewers consider the sisters as "handsome"? That is the word used in describing Elizabeth's thoughts about them. Not pretty, not beautiful, but handsome. Maybe fine clothes, and a certain something in their manner and walk, etc. is all that is needed for a woman to be considered handsome. They definitely do not seem a pretty/beautiful as the Bennet daughters (excepting Mary, of course).
: kathleen
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It is interesting to compare Bingley's sisters with Charlotte, who is one of the only other women in the book who is not described as handsome. Charlotte is as least as good-looking as either of the SS (superior sisters), or is that just my opinion? I notice that the book and the video both make several references to Jane being "pretty," which leads me to assume that handsome is not as attractive as pretty.
Anyone know the contemporary equivalent of handsome? Would it be the same as saying someone is "attractive?" (A term I've heard one should be wary of when describing blind dates.)
Mary
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 07, 1996 at 17:23:25:
: In an earlier conversation, you were stating the different ages in the main characters. I am wondering when Mr & Mrs Bennet were married and how old were they??? Also I am wondering if Wickham is older or younger than Darcy??? How old can the Gardiners be???
: Thanx,
: Maureen
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The Bennets have been married just about 23 years (twenty-three years of marriage had not been sufficient to teach Mrs. B about her husband!). I have
always assumed that Mrs. Bennet was in her early 20's (at most) when she married, so she would be 45 or younger during the story. (All of the adaptations have
made her seem older, but perhaps having 5 daughters and "delicate" nerves aged her prematurely.)
In the book, Mrs. Gardiner seems a good bit younger than her sister-in-law -- closer to Jane & Elizabeth -- possibly in her early 30's.
Since men of that time may have waited until they could "afford" to marry, I suppose the husbands could easily be several years older than their wives.
kathleen
Posted by kathleen on October 07, 1996 at 17:26:20:
: Also, being a former art history major, I noticed the paintings in the background. In the Longbourne drawing room, there is a painting above the fireplace of three woman dancing in circle. It is very obviouss, when Mr. B finally tells his family that he has visited Bingley. Mrs. B., Lydia, & Kitty, assume the same pose as in the painting. I think it is a bit of visual irony, because the painting most likely depicts the 3 Graces. Mrs. B., Lydia, & Kitty are the three most lacking in the social graces.
: I first noticed the painting behind Mr. Collins head when he is proposing to Lizzy. At first I couldn't make out what was in the picture, because Mr. C was blocking the picture. When he moves away, you can see that it is a young man courting a young woman. If fits just perfectly into what is going on. Behind Lizzy at this time there appears to be winterscape, perhaps reflecting her cold heart to Mr. C?
: Darcy always seems to be beneath portraits of proud, noble men, as in the billiard room (one of my favorite little scenes), and at the Netherfield ball. I can go no further, because so far, I have only viewed tapes 1 & 2 since August, though, I am hoping to get tapes 3 & 4 from our library very soon (knock on wood).
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What a marvelous catch -- you must be right! Be sure to look at the paintings at Rosings and then at one of Lady Catherine's hats. In an interview, the actress playing Lady C comments on the connection.
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 07, 1996 at 17:45:21:
:
: : Maybe this was one more of those scenes, used to show that all the world wasn't that affluent, or glittering, or charming or well-mannered?
: : Marsha
:
: ___________________
: Yes, the scene annoyed me, too. But I have always took it to show the social hierarchy of the town; the Darcys and Bingleys of the world are as far above the Bennets and the Lucases as the Bennets and Lucases are above the lowest classes of Meryton.
: Cheryl
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I suspect that it was primarily a "passage of time" device, similar to the one used in the Netherfield ball scene where (during Mr. Beveridge's Maggot) they cut away to the orchestra playing and when they returned to the dancers, L & D had progressed to the end of the line.
Joan, too
Posted by Anne on October 07, 1996 at 18:04:26:
: You remind me of one of my hairbrained business schemes. Try this on. I publish P&P as a scribble book meant to be defaced. Cheap paper. Maybe perforated and 3-hole punched like a notebook. Main text in the middle with maybe some footnotes or commentary (Henry, want to get in on this?) in part of the wide margins, like the Talmud. Plus plenty of space to scribble in your own notes.
: Amy
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I'd buy it!!! And it would be great for students - especially with the notes (or perhaps a chapter with explanations like the pages on the net).
Anne
(did pick up an inexpensive paperback version today to write in.)
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 07, 1996 at 18:07:34:
: I have always found it interesting that the sisters would believe that having Jane in the family would somehow be a blot on the family honor when they have this drunken lout sprawled out on the furniture every evening. Granted, the Mr. Hurst in P&P2 is more exagerated than the novel, but Jane would certainly bring more credit to the family than Mr. Hurst has. But then, Jane does not have money or social position. So the lesson here is that it is better to have money than manners.
: Cheryl
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This is, indeed, a criticism of society in JA's time - that such credit came only by virtue of whom your parents happened to be and the character or behavior of any individual was of no consequence. But it was not necessarily connected to money - impoverished scions of families with inherited social distinction were in a position to bring social status to any family into which they married - which probably accounts for Mr. Hurst's marriage to Louisa - she brought money (20,000 pounds) to Mr. Hurst, while he brought some measure of social status to the Bingleys (whose money had come from trade, not a family estate).
Joan, too
Posted by Anne on October 07, 1996 at 18:07:46:
:
:
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Ann you don't know how this thread brightens my day. Every time I see
it I start laughing at the thought of a tire hanging in Lucas Lodge.
Cheers -
Anne
Posted by Anne on October 07, 1996 at 18:10:58:
: ___________________
: I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who wants to slap the s***out of Miss Bingley. Wouldn't that be a great money raiser at a Jane Austen themed based carnival? "Slap Miss Bingley: only one pound!" Think of all the monies that could be raised for the Bennet girls doweries!
: Cheryl
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While we're getting physical - how about spanking Lydia.
Anne
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 07, 1996 at 18:13:59:
: : Anne:
: : Did anyone else find herself (himself) wanting to write notes in
: : the book as they were reading it?
: Cheryl
: Yes, I came very close to writing in the book, but stopped myself in time. (I have no compunction about doing this with other books, but these are my new Oxford editions and I want to keep them pristine!)
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[A paperback and a highlighter pen are indeed wonderful things. ;-) As are sticky-note pads!]
Joan, too
Posted by Anne on October 07, 1996 at 18:15:58:
:
___________________
Of course, we don't know how long the Hursts have been married.
He may have been more fashionable then and being married to Mrs.
Hurst may have driven him to drink. Not a stretch of the imagination.
Anne
Posted by Kali on October 07, 1996 at 18:18:36:
: I am one of those who only "discovered" Jane Austen due to the new movie versions. (How I got through 20 years of school without reading any of her novels is beyond me.) While it was the movies that brought me into the fold, it is the novels that keep me here. This past year I have read all six novels (P&P and Emma more than once), some of the Juvenilia, partaken of Austen-L, joined JASNA, (did someone mention obsession?) and have enjoyed every minute. While I can understand the old-timers feeling that we new converts have not been around long enough or "paid our Jane Austen dues" (I seem to recall a parable along those lines...) I am thrilled to be counted amongst the ever burgeoning numbers of "Janites" and would love to welcome all comers, no matter their route to "Austenland."
: Cheryl
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It's great to be getting such prompt responses! This is the last word I'll post on this subject, so I'd like to clarify a few things: First of all, people like Cheryl are not the "problem," if any problem does indeed exist. I love the A&E/BBC adaptation and appreciate the fact that everyone else does too. My contention involves the people who love the film but then never delve into the books. Sure, P&P is a cool love story. But it's much more than that. These are the people who caught on, but instead of participating in sites like this one, hang out nearby at the Friends of Firth page and download pictures of CF in Darcy garb (no offense to the FOF - I love their site). The people who catch and then don't move on to enjoyment and analysis of the novels and their themes are missing out on what the phenomenon has to offer them, and that's a shame. Perhaps that's an unavoidable by-product of situations like this one, but it bothers me just the same.
Posted by Joan, too on October 07, 1996 at 18:28:28:
: : Donna:
: : Charlotte thought she would be happy with Mr. Collins?
: Mary:
: I don't think Charlotte necessarily thought she would be happy with Mr. Collins, I think she primarily thought she would be taken care of. Being older than Lizzy also means she is more desperate to find a husband and spare herself and her family the embarrassment and the economic discomfort of being an "old maid" (at 28 -- yikes!)
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I agree - Charlotte was under no illusion that she would be happy in a "romantic" way with Mr. Collins. She went into that marriage with her eyes wide open, and fully prepared to engineer things as much to her own liking as possible. Since Mr. Collins was not clever, he was more manageable, and Charlotte was able to arrange things so that on many days they barely saw one another - which suited her just fine, and she expressed herself to Lizzie as being quite satisfied with her situation - which would eventually be improved with the arrival of children upon whom she could direct her affection and attention, further removing he from the necessity of spending much time with Mr. C. Someone who "never was" romantic, and had no expectations along those lines, could be quite happy in such a life.
Follow Ups:
Posted by kathleen on October 07, 1996 at 18:41:04:
: I love this whole chapter and the film realizes it quite well. Darcy is completely bewitched by Lizzy and it is great indicator of just how far gone he is that he is willing to dance with her at such a gathering. He looks and stares and admires, he wishes (needs?) to know her better.
: One of my favorite paragraphs in this chapter says that no sooner had Darcy convinced himself and his friends that she had not a good feature in her head, when he discovered her fine eyes; there was no symmetry in her form, but now it is light and pleasing; though her manners were not fashionable, he likes her easy playfulness. These discoveries "mortified" him but he still wanted to dance with her. He is a goner.
: Cheryl
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One section left out of the film shows Elizabeth "teasing" Darcy about listening to her conversation w/ Colonel Forster. He had clearly been listening, and he teases her back about women's love of balls. It is a scene where we see Darcy trying to get to know her, and Elizabeth not discouraging him -- in fact, he would consider
her starting the conversation w/ him as indicating an interest in him.
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 07, 1996 at 18:44:03:
: But what's weird is he tells Bingley right after the engagement that he doesn't like the company of most men. Anybody remember if that was in the book?
: Amy
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No - it was not - in the book the rest of that dialogue took place after Bingley had already departed, not in his presence. But it is not an unlikely conclusion to draw, since in the entire book I do not recall that we ever see or hear tell of Mr. B. interacting with anyone (male or female) outside of his own family on his own initiative. He seems to be happiest in his own company. ;-)
Joan, too
Posted by kathleen on October 07, 1996 at 18:50:56:
: : I've always thought Mr. Bennet being so critical
: : of the girls was due to him being the only male in the house.
: : Not that Mrs. Bennet and Lydia gave didn't give him reason to think ill,
: : but for Jane and Lizzie I think it was a lack of understanding women in general.
: ___________________
:
: But what's weird is he tells Bingley right after the engagement that he doesn't like the company of most men. Anybody remember if that was in the book?
: Amy
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I don't believe it was in the book. Something similar, however is described on the day Jane & Bingley get engaged. Bingley came in the morning to hunt w/
Mr. Bennet. Bingley found Mr. Bennet "mor agreeable than . . . expected. There was nothing of . . . folly in Bingley, that could provoke his ridicule, or disgust
him into silence. . . ." And, of course, after Lizzie's engagement, he says that he shall like her husband as well as Jane's!
kathleen
Posted by kathleen on October 07, 1996 at 18:54:22:
: : : If you look just to the left of Firth's head, there appears to be
: : : a radial tire, complete with fancy hub cap, hanging on the wall.
: : : What great taste the Lukases have!
: : : Ann
: :
: : ___________________
: : [Of course, it's probably the plaque Sir. W. received on being elevated to the knighthood, or something equally prestigious. Radial tire, indeed! ;-) ]
: : Joan, too
:
: ___________________
:
: Why was he elevated to the knighthood? Did anyone catch this?
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Sir William had been mayor of Meryton, and as a result of an address to the king (w/ much flattery, I am sure), was knighted.
kathleen
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