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Posted by Ann on October 07, 1996 at 11:55:33:
: Why were the girls not allowed to see Bingley when he came to pay a return visit. Was it considered proper for the first return visit that the gentleman not see the ladies, unless especially introduced? Was to see the family not necessary?
: I don't really understand all the details of protocol myself, but In that case, he was specifically calling on Mr. Bennet, not on the family In general.
I also think it may have been seen as a bit forward to present the daughters at that time. Sort of like saying: "Here they are, take your pick."
Posted by Cheryl on October 07, 1996 at 11:56:28:
: Did anyone else find herself (himself) wanting to write notes in
: the book as they were reading it? I can't bring myself to do that
: but may have to buy another copy just for that (paperback perhaps).
: I did find myself writing notes in a notebook pertaining to amusing
: passages, observations, etc.
Yes, I came very close to writing in the book, but stopped myself in time. (I have no compunction about doing this with other books, but these are my new Oxford editions and I want to keep them pristine!) I finally got a piece of paper to jot down notes for our discussion this week, and then at the bottom of the page made some notes as I watched the video. It has been too long since college though, my note taking skills are not what they once were!
Posted by Ann on October 07, 1996 at 12:06:03:
Unless the book is a particularly fine print, or belongs to
someone else, I have no fear of writing in the margins. I
love the thought that a century from now, someone else might
pick up one of my marked up books and be able to see what I
thought about it, my opinions and insights.
It's like talking to future readers.
Posted by Amy on October 07, 1996 at 12:13:46:
: Unless the book is a particularly fine print, or belongs to
: someone else, I have no fear of writing in the margins. I
: love the thought that a century from now, someone else might
: pick up one of my marked up books and be able to see what I
: thought about it, my opinions and insights.
: It's like talking to future readers.
I like the idea of pass-along forms of communication too. My kids rent video games, which sometimes have instruction books marked up to give secret codes from one kid to the next. I think that's neat.
Posted by Cheryl on October 07, 1996 at 12:16:57:
I love this whole chapter and the film realizes it quite well. Darcy is completely bewitched by Lizzy and it is great indicator of just how far gone he is that he is willing to dance with her at such a gathering. He looks and stares and admires, he wishes (needs?) to know her better.
One of my favorite paragraphs in this chapter says that no sooner had Darcy convinced himself and his friends that she had not a good feature in her head, when he discovered her fine eyes; there was no symmetry in her form, but now it is light and pleasing; though her manners were not fashionable, he likes her easy playfulness. These discoveries "mortified" him but he still wanted to dance with her. He is a goner.
Posted by Amy on October 07, 1996 at 12:19:42:
: He is a goner.
Posted by Ann on October 07, 1996 at 12:20:18:
: she is buried in
: Winchester Cathedral (the birthplace of Colin Firth incidentally)
Wow! Was Colin Firth really born in Winchester Cathedral? What auspicious beginning!
Posted by Kali on October 07, 1996 at 13:01:35:
: I wonder if all this newfound attention to Jane Austen is a curse to all of her pre- _Sense_ and pre- A&E/BBC P&P version fans.
: I used to hate the idea that everybody was getting into Austen. I was quite pettish about it and tended to think, "She's mine."
: But of course she is for everybody.
I agree. I've never aspired to "owning" the spirit of Jane AUsten, and I've always appreciated finding other Austen fans. However, I believe that part of the fun of JA lies in discovering her for yourself - through her novels - and not by way of a gazillion media-hyped television and film versions. Maybe we are a tv culture, but I've always felt that media representations are all at least a step away from the true spirit and experience of the mother work of art. My point is that I fear many of her new fans are being sold the sizzle instead of the steak, and thereby losing touch with the reason behind all the hoopla. And that is truly sad.
Posted by Mary on October 07, 1996 at 13:03:25:
: It does seem that everything JA writes in her novels does have reasoning behind it.
: There is few thing I have noticed:
: How she does leave out romantic conculsion.
I'm not sure she leaves this out, I think perhaps the "romantic conclusion" is different
from what it would be in our time. ;)
: How she adds other thing that fit character development,
: How she has Charlotte older than Lizzie.
: Darcy is older than Bingley.
: Jane is older than Bingley.
: This does have a deeper meaning I am sure, I was just wondering if my thought was right.
: Since Darcy made so many bad calls.He is suposed to be clever or wiser. Since Darcy also had a better education.
: Charlotte thought she would be happy with Mr. Collins?
I don't think Charlotte necessarily thought she would be happy with Mr. Collins, I think she primarily thought she
would be taken care of. Being older than Lizzy also means she is more desperate to find a husband and spare herself
and her family the embarrassment and the economic discomfort of being an "old maid" (at 28 -- yikes!)
Posted by Kali on October 07, 1996 at 13:20:04:
: : ___________________
: : If I were her (or him) I can't imagine not falling in love while P&P. Actors are always being consumes by their roles.
: However, it is likely in cases such as these, that the actors involved discover, once the production schedule is over, that it was the character rather than the person that they were in love with - in the same manner that several here have commented that they had discovered that it was not Colin Firth in whom they are interested, but rather, Darcy.
: Joan, too
Colin Firth is a mere mortal. But Mr. Darcy has attained the quasi-divine status of a Greek god in the modern world: he is of the distant past yet he remains captivating.
Posted by Mary on October 07, 1996 at 13:27:23:
: : I don't think she objected to her looks (Anne Eliot was plain) but to her self-assured and pedantic manner.
: : Marsha
: But Anne Eliot wasn't really plain, she had just lost her youthful bloom (don't have book handy, so can't give a more accurate description).
: P&P, Chapter 6
: "After a song or two, ... , she was eagerly succeeded at the instrument by her sister Mary, who having, in consequence of being the only plain one in the family, worked hard for knowledge and accomplishments, was always impatient for display."
: It appears that poor Mary missed out on everything; she was plain and "had neither genius nor taste", but still managed to have vanity which spoiled her application.
But, according to her neices and nephews, JA said that Mary went on to become the star of Meryton society after her sisters moved away and she married Mr. Phillip's chief clerk.
So she ended up happy too.
Posted by Bernie on October 07, 1996 at 13:29:19:
: I am planning to make a "Jane Austen tour of England" in conjunction with an independent study project. Is anyone familiar with England that could give me recommendations onwhat I should make a point to see?
This depends how much time you have to spend. If you have quite a lot of time on your hands, then I suggest you split your tour into three parts. In the first part of the tour you could visit Hampshire -- this the county that Jane Austen was both born and died in. In addition to visiting, Steventon (near Basingstoke) where Jane Austen was born, Winchester and Chawton (where Jane lived just prior to her death), you could also visit Portsmouth (an important historical naval base, and the setting of Fanny's visit home in Mansfield Park). The second part of your tour could then take in Bath -- the Roman Baths, the Pump Room (setting of important scenes in Northanger Abbey) and the Crescent are well worth a visit. Also a visit to the Museum of Costume maybe of interest-- and several locations in Wiltshire which have been used for recent adaptations (Lacock nr. Chippenham was the site of Meryton, Wilton House and Mompesson House featured in Sense and Sensibility). The final part of the tour could then be spent in the Peak District (Derbyshire). In addition to visiting Matlock, Dovedale, Bakewell, Lyme Park (Pemberley exteriors) and Sudbury Hall (Pemberley interiors), I would also suggest a trip to Chatsworth (nr. Bakewell). This grand house is believed by some to be the model for Pemberley. If you like breathtaking scenery, then the Peak District is a must.
Finally, I'll leave you a couple of useful internet links :-
http://www.hants.gov.uk/austen/index.html -- a link containing information about JA country.
http://www.openworld.co.uk/britain/ -- a link to attractions in Blighty. On the home page if you select search by Region and then select F-The English Shires and Peak District and J- The Severn Valley and the Cotswolds you will get the corresponding regional map. A search of ATTRACTIONS by ESTABLISHMENT NAME will list all the Tourist Attractions in the area. Clicking on the place of choice will give you an address and contact number.
Hope this is of some help,
Posted by The Mysteriousn H.C. on October 07, 1996 at 13:30:43:
: There's a great bit in the book during the post-mortum that I had forgotten about. A Lucus kid tells how he would drink a bottle of wine every day were he so rich. Mrs Bennet persists in arguing with him about it until Lucus departure time, showing again how immature she is.
I don't know if her admonition to the child is so immature (though persisting in an extended "Yes I would", "No I wouldn't" debate might be).
For all of those (maybe not on this board) who want more squalor and vice in Jane Austen, here she is partly pointing out, in an understated way, that women in fact have no control over factors that might influence their felicity such as their husbands' drinking.
Posted by Mich on October 07, 1996 at 13:39:32:
: Jane and Bingley danced in the book. And I didn't get the impression the kids were so very little. With these changes in circumstance, dancing might seem more supportable to Darcy.
: But the material point, I think, is that no matter what the circumstances, he wanted (needed?) to get closer to her. He was not about to be anything but polite this time, and complying in this second invitation to invite her to dance. Unlike Mrs Bennet who doesn't care who hears her put down her acquaintance, Darcy must have been mortified to know Lizzie heard him describe her as not handsome enough to dance with.
: I am sure, though, he was glad to hear she was not inclined to dance on this particular occasion.
In A&E versions it was quite clear that Darcy Knew Lizzie had heard him but I didn't think the book
made that clear. She seemed to tease him later about it but do you think at this point he knew
she had heard him?
Posted by Maureen on October 07, 1996 at 13:42:37:
In an earlier conversation, you were stating the different ages in the main characters. I am wondering when Mr & Mrs Bennet were married and how old were they??? Also I am wondering if Wickham is older or younger than Darcy??? How old can the Gardiners be???
Posted by Mich on October 07, 1996 at 13:46:10:
: It has always struck me as odd, when Mr Bennet said about his daughters something like that they are silly and ignorant like the other girls, but Lizzy got a little more quickness than the rest. Did he include Jane in the silly category? And did he think Lizzy was silly & ignorant' only less so? This suggestion has put me sadly out of countenance. But then, of course he might be saying it just to tease his wife.
: Also, I do not understand the rules of introduction at that time. Does anyone know where I could find info, or explain them to me (Now is the time for Mysterious H.C.)
: Why were the girls not allowed to see Bingley when he came to pay a return visit. Was it considered proper for the first return visit that the gentleman not see the ladies, unless especially introduced? Was to see the family not necessary? HELP- I am in a dreadful state of perplexity!
I've always thought Mr. Bennet being so critical
of the girls was due to him being the only male in the house.
Not that Mrs. Bennet and Lydia gave didn't give him reason to think ill,
but for Jane and Lizzie I think it was a lack of understanding women in general.
Posted by Amy on October 07, 1996 at 13:57:47:
: I've always thought Mr. Bennet being so critical
: of the girls was due to him being the only male in the house.
: Not that Mrs. Bennet and Lydia gave didn't give him reason to think ill,
: but for Jane and Lizzie I think it was a lack of understanding women in general.
But what's weird is he tells Bingley right after the engagement that he doesn't like the company of most men. Anybody remember if that was in the book?
Posted by Mich on October 07, 1996 at 14:06:39:
: : If you look just to the left of Firth's head, there appears to be
: : a radial tire, complete with fancy hub cap, hanging on the wall.
: : What great taste the Lukases have!
: : Ann
: [Of course, it's probably the plaque Sir. W. received on being elevated to the knighthood, or something equally prestigious. Radial tire, indeed! ;-) ]
: Joan, too
Why was he elevated to the knighthood? Did anyone catch this?
Posted by Rebecca on October 07, 1996 at 14:07:34:
: I love the facial expressions of Darcy and Lizzy, especially in connection with the imfamous snub. Lizzy is hurt but very soon sees the absurdity of Darcy's pride and has a good laugh over it with Charlotte. When she passes in front of Darcy, his eyes follow her and he hears her laughter (at his expense, he knows) he is intrigued, and his interest immediately piqued. Wonderful scene, I smile all through it.
: But I like the post- assembly ball scenes in the book better- especially the discussions with Charlotte where Lizzy admits that she could easily forgive his pride if he had not wounded hers. Very telling moment.
In connection with the famous snub, I think Ehle's face as it is given is very good and shows how
surprised she is to overhear such a thing. Also, I agree with the effect of the look she gives
him as she passes as having an effect, but I don't think that he is at all aware that she overheard
him, either in the book or in P&P2. The laughter is just from some other guest (it
is not Lizzie), but he sees her talking to Charlotte and looking toward him. Yes,
he is being talked about, but he probably has no idea what they are saying. IMHO.
Posted by Mich on October 07, 1996 at 14:10:18:
: Does anyone else have difficulty watching this scene in P&P2? It is actually
: one of my favorite scenes from the early part of the book, but I have to take
: several breaks in order to get through it on the video tape. (I think I've just fast
: forwarded through this scene the last several times I've watched it.)
: I'm not certain what the problem is. Maybe it's Mrs. Bennet screeching, or the
: change in the dialogue, or . . . . or I do not know. I don't feel you get the same
: character development as this scene provides in the book, but I don't think that
: explains my problem.
: Oh well, maybe I'll jump ahead to the music room at Pemberly scene -- that always
: comforts me!
I just cringe when Mrs. Bennet enters the room. I feel all the humiliation Lizzie
must feel every time her mother opens her mouth. I too have to fast forward in order to get through
it. Poor Lizzie...Poor Darcy.
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