Return to Archives home
[ Index by Subject ] [ Index by Date ] [ New P&P2 BB ] [ FAQ ] [ Links ]
Posted by Bea on October 06, 1996 at 22:29:58:
: : Darcy has cut Bingley's apron strings, and the man is left to fend for himself.
: : ___________________
Yes, I think Bingley is way tooo nice! He finds out that Jane, the woman he is deeply in love with,
was in London and that Darcy knew and kept it from him. Then Bingley asks Darcy for his blessing to marry Jane!!!!!
Lizzy's father was right about both Bingley and Jane when he said,
"You are each of you so complying that nothing will ever be resolved on; so that
every servant will cheat you;".
Bea
Posted by Amy on October 06, 1996 at 22:35:43:
: Darcy seems to be a man who does possess that "utmost force of
: passion"--enough to fall in love with Lizzy without encouragement.
___________________
Don't know. Is it possible Darcy is an exception to Charlotte's rule since he is so very rich and must assume that everyone must want him?
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 06, 1996 at 22:36:45:
In the adaptation, they also have Mr. Hurst being uncommonly
rude by escaping out the side door shortly after Mrs. Bennet,
Lydia and Kitty have entered the room at Netherfield (when
they came to see Jane).
As for money, Austen says that the elder Bingley sister
married a man of more fashion than fortune, and she was
therefore very happy to frequently visit her brother
(cheaper than feeding her husband at home). Considering how
little fashion Mr. Hurst seems to posess, they may not have
much of a fortune either (though she was worth 20,000lbs).
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Bea on October 06, 1996 at 22:39:58:
: : I thought that Adrian Lukis was poorly cast as Wickham. Wickham is meant to be extremely attractive - in the book Mrs Gardiner says that Darcy does not have Wickham's countenance (which natually encompasses more than looks). I felt that if a better looking actor had been cast it would have made Elizabeth's attraction to him more credible (ie blinded by his looks).
:
: ___________________
:
:
: The first time that I saw P&P2 I thought Wickham pleasing.
------------------------------------
I have to agree; once I knew his personality, and since I knew he was a snake from the book, he didn't have an appeal. It was
difficult for me to see what was appealing to Lizzy. Had I not known from the start, perhaps he would have had an appeal.
Or to paraphrase Lizzy, "Perhaps a very little". ::-)
Bea
Posted by Amy on October 06, 1996 at 22:44:58:
Well, the importance of the request WILL be determined with a greater degree of precision and the situation WILL arises when they both will be able to judge whether Bingley's temper is a benefit or a drawback. Ha! Austen is a genius.
___________________
I see. You're right, of course. Took your explanation to make me see it, though, which makes me see why the conversation did not make it into the adaptation.
Another live to regret line we talked about earlier today:
Caroline asking when she should wish Darcy joy.
Prophesy I'd like to see: Mrs Bingley starving in the hedgerows.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 06, 1996 at 22:50:11:
: Prophesy I'd like to see: Mrs Bingley starving in the hedgerows.
___________________
Meant Mrs. Bennet. I wish Jane only the best. And I suppose I wouldn't really like to see Mrs Bennet die a slow humiliating death. I might like to let her be afraid of the real prospect of it for, oh, half a day.
Jane forgive me; I am not so good as you.
Posted by Bea on October 06, 1996 at 22:54:15:
Is any one having this problem? I read a message that hit
the Back arrow to return to PP2bb. However, if I am reading
a message and return to PP2bb via the link, I get a different,
more up to date page and it looks like I have not read any
of the messages.
What did I miss in the first emails about how to read these correctly. I didn't
see this in the FAQ.
Anybody?
Thanks,
Bea
Follow Ups:
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 07, 1996 at 00:17:57:
: it has always struck me as odd, when Mr. Bennet said about his daughters something like that they are silly and ignorant like the other girls, but lizzy got a little more quickness than the rest. Did he include Jane in the silly category?
He's joking! He does have some respect for Jane, and later on he comments about the two "or I may say, three very silly sisters", but Lizzy is his favorite.
: Also, I do not understand the rules of introduction at that time.
: Why were the girls not allowed to see Bingley when he came to pay a return visit. Was it considered proper for the first return visit that the gentleman not see the ladies, unless especially introduced? Was to see the family not necessary?
I don't really understand all the details of protocol myself, but In that case, he was specifically calling on Mr. Bennet, not on the family In general.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ian on October 07, 1996 at 00:27:12:
: : In the book when Darcy first appears at the dance in Meryton he is considered very handsome for the first of the evening, until his behavior makes it seem as if he has a forbidding, disagreeable countenance. When Wickham appears at Mrs. Phillips he is "pleasing to every female eye" (I think I have the quote right) and was agreeable to everyone. I think that Wickham has to appear as better than Darcy (at least on the surface) in order for Lizzie and the rest to be taken in by him.
:
: ___________________
: I think both Darcy and Wickham were wery handsome.could it maybe be so
: that Darcy maybe was most handsome but that his sometimes arrogant behaviour
: and shyness could offend people. but that Wickham was more social and
: and had more outward charm (even if it was rather superficial
: . I think wickham in this production did a tolerable god jaob you could
: understand that Lizzy and other was charmed and attracted by him.but you could
: also see when the spell is broken and he just seem smoth talking.
: Mr Bennet seem to se it early when he talks about Wickham telling
: all about all his misfortunes."Who would read novels" he says.
: Maybe Wickham is one of theese people that people easily falls for but
: also gets tired off. Lizzy is attracted by him and is wounded when he droppes
: her but she is not seriously broken hearted it seems like it is
: more her vanity that suffer.
: Anna-Karin
-------------------
Lizzy starts to see through Wickham's charms fairly early on when he goes after Miss King
the heiress of #10,000. She also notices that his eyes wander about the
room scanning all the ladies.
Darcy's shyness perceived as haughtiness overcomes his handsomeness. As he's bewitched
by Lizzy's charms (her bright eyes) he also has taken to stareing
at her which puts her and other ladies off him.
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 07, 1996 at 00:42:03:
: : This thread has reminded of a question that has occurred to me a number of times. When Lizzie tells her mother about being engaged to Darcy, Mrs. B. insists that They must be married by a special license. Does anyone know what is meant by this?
: : Joan, too
: If I remember correctly, there are three different ways to
: get married.
: 1) (cheapest) Having the Banns read in church. This
: means that on three consecutive Sundays the minister reads
: the names of those wanting to get married, at the end of
: the three weeks the couple is considered married.
Actually, the banns (and the licenses) only clear the way for the separate wedding cermony to be held...
: 2) (second cheapest) regular license.
: 3) (expensive) special license.
: I don't remember what the difference is between the last two,
: except the price. Obviously the special license is more
: prestigeous.
A regular license dispenses with the reading of the banns, and a special licence allows the weedding to be held outside of the prescribed times and places (before noon in the church of the parish in which you're resident, etc.)
Link:
Posted by Ann2 on October 07, 1996 at 01:53:55:
:
: : : -- Why invent the extra snub to Lizzy at Meryton? Just to make sure we get it? Interesting that no chances were taken regarding faithfulness to the original in the invented encounter among Mrs Bennet, Jane, Lizzy, Bingley and Darcy. It almost exactly mirrors Sir William's later suggestion at Lucus Lodge that Darcy to dance with Lizzy.
: : :
: : : Amy
: : :
: : "I have not the pleasure of understanding you...Of what are you talking?"
: : Ann
: ___________________
: You are right. I suppose I was not very clear. I refer to the part of the Meryton assembly where Mrs Bennet sees that Bingley wants to meet them, gathers Jane and Lizzy to her and proceeds to preside over introductions to her daughters, ultimately urging Darcy to dance with Lizzy. This doesn't happen in the book but it does sound a lot like Sir William's urging of Darcy to dance with Lizzy at Lucus Lodge.
: I just remembered something. P&P0 started it. There was a similar line-up with all five girls being introduced. I don't remember if Darcy was involved in the conversation or not.
: AMy
___________________
I can think of one more explanation to this. It gives as a chance to watch the interaction between mother and daughters. Lizzie says:Maybe he is not so handsome after all? She is joking but Mrs Bennet takes the baite and snorts:No indeed, quite ill favoured. Certainly nothing to Mr Bingley. And then we see that Jane is rather pleased at the tought of dancing with Mr B soon. But she does not say a word. So all three characters begin to stand out clearly at this early stage. Even Darcy´s terrible manners and Bingley´s embarrasement give us some hints. But I do not know much about the construction of drama. Sometimes we must remind ourselves that not everyone watching this video had read the novel or wants to go as deep into it as we addicts. The producer has his/her reasons I suppose
Ann2
Good God, how much I must have missed beeing away from this board for three days. I really must get one Pc at home. Now I only get to it after and before work.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Marie on October 07, 1996 at 02:22:23:
: Miss Bingly and Mrs. Hurst are a hoot to watch in this adaptation.
I agree. Both were well cast and well played. Mrs. Hurst has good features, strictly speaking, but somehow ends up looking a little like a pig. My husband and I call her "Miss Piggy".
: But I do not laugh at them when I read the book, where they come off not as comical but as cruel, especially in their treatment of Jane during her illness.
Interesting. I thought they came off as more cruel in the adaptation--Mrs. Hurst, in particular. Miss Bingley at least has the excuse of desperation for her behavior. Mrs. Hurst has no excuse at all, yet she eggs her sister on and takes malicious delight in anything that will put down the Bennett family.
___________________
Posted by Marie on October 07, 1996 at 02:32:18:
: : During the Meryton Assembly Ball there is a cut away to the people
: : outside drinking and mimicking the dancing. Does anyone else find
: : this scene annoying? I don't see the purpose and, to me, it breaks
: : the flow of the story.
: : Anne
: ___________________
: Yes, yes, yes. . . . I could not agree more. It is most annoying. It must
: have had some purpose in the writer's eyes. . .
Actually, Jane Austen does not include such a scene. I suspect the director wanted to emphasize the country (or "Kountry") aspect to show how the assembly was viewed by the sophisticated group from the city. A little over the top, however.
___________________
Posted by Marie on October 07, 1996 at 02:59:07:
: : I thought that Adrian Lukis was poorly cast as Wickham. Wickham is meant to be extremely attractive - in the book Mrs Gardiner says that Darcy does not have Wickham's countenance (which natually encompasses more than looks). I felt that if a better looking actor had been cast it would have made Elizabeth's attraction to him more credible (ie blinded by his looks).
: : ___________________
: :
: Once I knew his personality I could never look at him the
: same - it is so easy to see his swarmy underside that all I
: can do is criticize.
___________________
I, too, think Adrian Lukas was not the best choice for Wickham: he is not handsome enough and his manner is too oily. HOWEVER, a colleague of mine who watched P&P2 without having read P&P or knowing the story, found him quite appealing, certainly moreso than Firth/Darcy. (Hard to believe, I know, but since she is an honest woman in general, I think I must take her word for it.)
Posted by Kali Pappas on October 07, 1996 at 03:15:40:
This is really great. A little out of control, maybe, but really wonderful just the same. I've been a P&P fan since I was twelve, and I wonder if all this newfound attention to Jane Austen is a curse to all of her pre- _Sense_ and pre- A&E/BBC P&P version fans.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 07, 1996 at 06:05:10:
: Ann2
: Good God, how much I must have missed beeing away from this board for three days. I really must get one Pc at home. Now I only get to it after and before work.
___________________
How true! I was just preparing to get my daily "fix" on Saturday when I began to feel like Jane at dinner with the Bingley Sisters and had to drag my poor body, every individual cell of which had begun to ache, to bed, where it has since langushed till now, when the fever finally broke. Bummer! What a lot there has been to catch up on!
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 07, 1996 at 06:09:19:
: Cheryl:
: What is it fellow Janites, about *you* that makes you watch these films over and over again, and compels you to communicate with like minded sufferers in this forum?
Well, to tackle the last (and easiest) part first, having someone who has also "been there" to share any "good thing" with makes it that much better. I first noticed this with travel. I once signed up to go on a 2 week tour (of Scandinavia) with a group of total strangers. Never again. Not Scandinavia, I mean, but going on a vacation-type trip with nobody who is going to still be part of my life after it's over to re-enjoy it with!
But whu P&P2? That's a bit more complicated. For me, it's not "romance" or "Firth/Darcy" or even "Jane Austen" (which is not to say that these are not Very Good Things - they just aren't "the" thing). Jane Austen, though, does definitely make a major contribution in that she has done such an outstanding job of crafting characters who one can feel interested in, identify with, be taken in by, be irritated by or hate wholheartedly, just as the characters themselves do.
: Amy:
-- ARE we obsessive types generally? In my case, I can become obsessive about other things: [examples snipped] I don't watch other movies over and over...
This may be part of it - this is far from my first "obsession", though it is the first one that I've "had" in a format that allowed me to view it over and over again. (Many of my earlier obsessions have been live performances, and most often of a musical nature.)
Raphael comes closest to it when he said: The real reason, if one is to be found, for my personal addiction, lies in the combination (deadly combination) of: character and scope. These two features as portrayed, dramatized, in such an exquisite production make it completely irresistable. Why others do not fall under its spell is beyond my powers of comprehension.
This is definitely a large part of it for me. But beyond that, I think that it is the notion that such a large number of people have worked together to interpret a work of art in such a way as to have it both accurately express the intent of the originator(s) and make it accessible for many others to enjoy and appreciate. I would love to have been a fly on the wall during the production of this film - to see exactly how they got the parts of the puzzle to fit together so completely that the foundations and the seams become invisible. It's the process of creation that seems to fascinate me more than the actual performance itself. The disappointing thing about an obsession like this is that all possibility for active involvement is already over before it was possible to become aware of it. Only one thing would make P&P2 BB a more satisfying experience - if Birtwistle, Davies, Davis, Langton et all could be here to join in. :-)
Joan, too
Posted by Amy on October 07, 1996 at 06:14:12:
I wonder if all this newfound attention to Jane Austen is a curse to all of her pre- _Sense_ and pre- A&E/BBC P&P version fans.
___________________
I used to hate the idea that everybody was getting into Austen. I was quite pettish about it and tended to think, "She's mine."
But of course she is for everybody.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 07, 1996 at 06:15:42:
: If you look just to the left of Firth's head, there appears to be
: a radial tire, complete with fancy hub cap, hanging on the wall.
: What great taste the Lukases have!
: Ann
___________________
[Of course, it's probably the plaque Sir. W. received on being elevated to the knighthood, or something equally prestigious. Radial tire, indeed! ;-) ]
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 07, 1996 at 06:15:59:
Sorry you were sick. We always miss you.
[ Index by Subject ] [ Index by Date ] [ New P&P2 BB ] [ FAQ ] [ Links ]
Return to Archives home