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Posted by Ann on October 06, 1996 at 14:10:23:
: -- Why invent the extra snub to Lizzy at Meryton? Just to make sure we get it? Interesting that no chances were taken regarding faithfulness to the original in the invented encounter among Mrs Bennet, Jane, Lizzy, Bingley and Darcy. It almost exactly mirrors Sir William's later suggestion at Lucus Lodge that Darcy to dance with Lizzy.
:
: Amy
:
"I have not the pleasure of understanding you...Of what are you talking?"
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 06, 1996 at 14:26:09:
I just wrote a 190 p. masters thesis on the theory of radial tires
(exciting topic, let me tell you!!), because of this I can't help
laughing every time I see the scene at Lucas Lodge with Sir W.
trying to get Lizzy and Darcy to dance.
If you look just to the left of Firth's head, there appears to be
a radial tire, complete with fancy hub cap, hanging on the wall.
What great taste the Lukases have!
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 06, 1996 at 14:36:23:
During the Meryton Assembly Ball there is a cut away to the people
outside drinking and mimicking the dancing. Does anyone else find
this scene annoying? I don't see the purpose and, to me, it breaks
the flow of the story.
Anne
Follow Ups:
Posted by Stefanie on October 06, 1996 at 14:41:21:
: Hi all,
: I just got my videos from Critics Choice today (Friday).
: I ordered on Monday. I received Persuasion and S&S both
: for 19.95 each. Persuasion with Amanda Root, although as Mich pointed
: out Amanda Root is not on the cover! S&S is the version with
: Emma Thompson!
: Bea
___________________
Enjoy them. I just purchased P&P2 at thw wiz for $69.99!! I'm so excited and can't wait to see the missing scenes.
Stefanie
Posted by kathleen on October 06, 1996 at 14:42:40:
:
: During the Meryton Assembly Ball there is a cut away to the people
: outside drinking and mimicking the dancing. Does anyone else find
: this scene annoying? I don't see the purpose and, to me, it breaks
: the flow of the story.
: Anne
___________________
Yes, yes, yes. . . . I could not agree more. It is most annoying. It must
have had some purpose in the writer's eyes, but it has nothing to do with
any of the characters with whom the book deals. (It is not the only extraneous
scene in P&P2, either. Do you suppose they needed to fill up the allotted
time for the BBC broadcast?)
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 06, 1996 at 14:49:02:
One of the exchanges left out of the video which caught my eye in the
book was in Chapter 10 when Darcy is writing to his sister. Miss
Bingley has been bothering him with interjections and then:
"You write uncommonly fast."
"You are mistaken. I write rather slowly."
I felt that this, along with the struggle to expose his feelings, was
a reason that it took him the entire night to write to Lizzy while
at Rosings.
There is an interesting discussion of letter writing in JA's time:
Link:
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 06, 1996 at 14:50:45:
: The Meryton Assembly Ball is one of those instances where the film does a better job portraying events than does the book. The book devotes one small chapter to it, but it is of such importance; it sets up so many future events that I really enjoy the added expanse and scope given it by the film.
: I love the facial expressions of Darcy and Lizzy, especially in connection with the imfamous snub. Lizzy is hurt but very soon sees the absurdity of Darcy's pride and has a good laugh over it with Charlotte. When she passes in front of Darcy, his eyes follow her and he hears her laughter (at his expense, he knows) he is intrigued, and his interest immediately piqued. Wonderful scene, I smile all through it.
: But I like the post- assembly ball scenes in the book better- especially the discussions with Charlotte where Lizzy admits that she could easily forgive his pride if he had not wounded hers. Very telling moment.
: Cheryl
___________________
We get so much information about the characters in this scene.
We se the people of Meryton amusing themselves in maybe a little
noisy manner. we see how mrs Bennet rather vulgarily almost trow her daugters
at mr Bingley and hear her exlamaitions about how handsome mr Darcy is
and about he having 10000 pound a year.Then he stalks away and
she becomes annoyed and is declaring that he is not at all handsome ;).
Darcys entrance into the rome is magnific.You can see why the gets
the attention of the whole room because of his good looks and
we also se why his a bit arrogant behaviour can offend people.
He probably did not at all want to go to the party but maybe wanted to
stay at Netherfield reading a book;) but since Bingley want to go hegoes to.
and then when he is there finding everything and everyone rather vulgar.
Then his friend has a great time and tries to get him to dance with an
unknown girl.(he is maybe shy also) He angrily replies that he does not
want to dance(unless it is with someone very attractive).I can
sympatize a little with him there (I have behaved in a simalar way once).
But he is offending Lizzy. We se her at first loking at him a little
maybe she is a little intrested in him after all.But then he snubs her.
she smiles walks past him.and then it happens he really LOOKS at her.
He has met his fate and is beginning to get hooked.
Anna-Karin
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 06, 1996 at 14:51:46:
_______________
: Do you suppose they needed to fill up the allotted
: time for the BBC broadcast?)
: kathleen
___________________
Perhaps, but they could have filled the time better by just
showing Darcy and/or Jane.
anne
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 06, 1996 at 14:55:33:
:
: My only consistent obsession, the only one Iever return to with the same
: satisfaction as I initially felt, is Jane Austen. I may set the obsession aside for
: a time, but I always return.
: kathleen
___________________
At least you never hear of lives of crime caused by obsession to Jane Austen.
anne
___________________
Posted by Anne on October 06, 1996 at 15:08:10:
Did anyone else find herself (himself) wanting to write notes in
the book as they were reading it? I can't bring myself to do that
but may have to buy another copy just for that (paperback perhaps).
I did find myself writing notes in a notebook pertaining to amusing
passages, observations, etc.
For example:
Chap 2 Mrs. B says:
"I do not believe Mrs. Long will do any such thing. She has two nieces
of her own. she is a selfish, hypocirtical woman, and I have no opinion
of her."
---- sort of the pot calling the kettle black ----
Chap 6 Charlotte and Lizzy:
"They always continue to grow sufficiently unlike afterwards to
have their share of vexation; and it is better to know as little
as possible of the defects of the person with whom you are to pass
your life."
"You make me laugh, Charlotte; but it is not sound. You know it is
not sound, and that you would never act in this way yourself."
---- inkling of what was to come for Charlotte
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anna-Karin Schander on October 06, 1996 at 15:10:17:
: : In the book Mrs. Gardiner said "that he is not as handsome as Whickham" or rather he has not his countenance for his features are perfectly good." Also she said "There is something pleasing
: : about his mouth when he speaks". "There is something of dignity in his countenance that would give you a favorable idea of his heart".
: : So if you have a pleasing countenance your looks aren't very important. Why mention handsome or the way he looks. Was he as handsome as Whickham.
:
: ___________________
: In the book when Darcy first appears at the dance in Meryton he is considered very handsome for the first of the evening, until his behavior makes it seem as if he has a forbidding, disagreeable countenance. When Wickham appears at Mrs. Phillips he is "pleasing to every female eye" (I think I have the quote right) and was agreeable to everyone. I think that Wickham has to appear as better than Darcy (at least on the surface) in order for Lizzie and the rest to be taken in by him.
___________________
I think both Darcy and Wickham were wery handsome.could it maybe be so
that Darcy maybe was most handsome but that his sometimes arrogant behaviour
and shyness could offend people. but that Wickham was more social and
and had more outward charm (even if it was rather superficial
. I think wickham in this production did a tolerable god jaob you could
understand that Lizzy and other was charmed and attracted by him.but you could
also see when the spell is broken and he just seem smoth talking.
Mr Bennet seem to se it early when he talks about Wickham telling
all about all his misfortunes."Who would read novels" he says.
Maybe Wickham is one of theese people that people easily falls for but
also gets tired off. Lizzy is attracted by him and is wounded when he droppes
her but she is not seriously broken hearted it seems like it is
more her vanity that suffer.
Anna-Karin
Follow Ups:
Posted by Diana on October 06, 1996 at 15:15:33:
Chap 6 Charlotte and Lizzy:
: "They always continue to grow sufficiently unlike afterwards to
: have their share of vexation; and it is better to know as little
: as possible of the defects of the person with whom you are to pass
: your life."
: "You make me laugh, Charlotte; but it is not sound. You know it is
: not sound, and that you would never act in this way yourself."
: ---- inkling of what was to come for Charlotte
___________________
I agree with you perfectly. Charlotte's sad case is one of marrying in haste and repenting at leisure.
I especially love the scene at the parsonage where Charlotte and Lizzy are standing by the window speaking between the lines about avoiding Mr. Collins on a day-to-day basis.
Diana
Posted by Diana on October 06, 1996 at 15:22:21:
Has anyone else noticed that Miss Bingley is the only one to call Lizzy "Miss Eliza"? The family calls her Lizzy, a more informal name, to be sure, and most others call her Miss Elizabeth when in the company of her sister or Miss Bennet when she is alone. (Then of course there is Darcy's "dearest, lovliest Elizabeth". Miss Bingley's "Miss Eliza" has always seemed to me to be quite condescending. Perhaps the name lends itself to that attitude, but no one else calls her Eliza so I thought it rather strange.
Diana
Follow Ups:
Posted by Diana on October 06, 1996 at 15:24:44:
Has anyone else noticed that Miss Bingley is the only one to call Lizzy "Miss Eliza"? The family calls her Lizzy, a more informal name, to be sure, and most others call her Miss Elizabeth when in the company of her sister or Miss Bennet when she is alone. (Then of course there is Darcy's "dearest, lovliest Elizabeth".) Miss Bingley's "Miss Eliza" has always seemed to me to be quite condescending. Perhaps the name lends itself to that attitude, but no one else calls her Eliza so I thought it rather strange.
Diana
Follow Ups:
Posted by Marsha on October 06, 1996 at 16:04:35:
: Has anyone else noticed that Miss Bingley is the only one to call Lizzy "Miss Eliza"? The family calls her Lizzy, a more informal name, to be sure, and most others call her Miss Elizabeth when in the company of her sister or Miss Bennet when she is alone. (Then of course there is Darcy's "dearest, lovliest Elizabeth".) Miss Bingley's "Miss Eliza" has always seemed to me to be quite condescending. Perhaps the name lends itself to that attitude, but no one else calls her Eliza so I thought it rather strange.
: Diana
___________________
I agree, but I think Charlotte also calls her 'Eliza', when she is talking about the Meryton dance.
Marsha
P.S. maybe in both cses, they say Eliza, because Lizzie is too intimate, and Elizabeth, too formal for Charlotte, adn too respectful for Miss Bingley?
Follow Ups:
Posted by Marsha on October 06, 1996 at 16:10:33:
: One of the exchanges left out of the video which caught my eye in the
: book was in Chapter 10 when Darcy is writing to his sister. Miss
: Bingley has been bothering him with interjections and then:
:
: "You write uncommonly fast."
: "You are mistaken. I write rather slowly."
:
: I felt that this, along with the struggle to expose his feelings, was
: a reason that it took him the entire night to write to Lizzy while
: at Rosings.
:
:
:
___________________
In the book, Bingley corroborates this, saying that he (Darcy) never writes with ease, because he studies too much for words of four syllables. This would be especially true in the case of his letter to Lizzie, where he probably wanted to produce most impression he could, and was probably very careful in his choice of phrases. Also, even though it says the letter was dated from 8 in the morning, this might just be the time when he finished it.
Marsha
Posted by Marsha on October 06, 1996 at 16:14:29:
: Does anyone else have difficulty watching this scene in P&P2? It is actually
: one of my favorite scenes from the early part of the book, but I have to take
: several breaks in order to get through it on the video tape. (I think I've just fast
: forwarded through this scene the last several times I've watched it.)
: I'm not certain what the problem is. Maybe it's Mrs. Bennet screeching, or the
: change in the dialogue, or . . . . or I do not know. I don't feel you get the same
: character development as this scene provides in the book, but I don't think that
: explains my problem.
: Oh well, maybe I'll jump ahead to the music room at Pemberly scene -- that always
: comforts me!
: kathleen
___________________
I love the way she uses Sir William Lucas, as a 'guide' for Darcy!
Marsha
Follow Ups:
Posted by Marsha on October 06, 1996 at 16:18:08:
:
: : Mr Bennet may have neglected his younger children but he was under no illusions about them. She's deep but not very quick. Makes extracts but is quite incapable of arriving at an original idea.
:
: ___________________
: Poor Mary. I have always felt that Jane Austen was very severe with her and producers of P&P2 even more so. Did you notice how Mary was given all manner of facial blemishes to go along with her other charms?
: Cheryl
___________________
I don't think she objected to her looks (Anne Eliot was plain) but to her self-assured and pedantic manner.
Marsha
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 06, 1996 at 16:24:32:
and Jane makes the statement that even Mr. Darcy may improve on
: closer acquaintance. This is the same phrase that Lizzy uses later to
: Mr. Wickham about Darcy. I love these little prophetic utterances.
: Anne
___________________
I like that it makes Jane a little less insipid.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Marsha on October 06, 1996 at 16:25:53:
: : The Meryton Assembly Ball is one of those instances where the film does a better job portraying events than does the book. The book devotes one small chapter to it, but it is of such importance; it sets up so many future events that I really enjoy the added expanse and scope given it by the film.
: : I love the facial expressions of Darcy and Lizzy, especially in connection with the imfamous snub. Lizzy is hurt but very soon sees the absurdity of Darcy's pride and has a good laugh over it with Charlotte. When she passes in front of Darcy, his eyes follow her and he hears her laughter (at his expense, he knows) he is intrigued, and his interest immediately piqued. Wonderful scene, I smile all through it.
: : But I like the post- assembly ball scenes in the book better- especially the discussions with Charlotte where Lizzy admits that she could easily forgive his pride if he had not wounded hers. Very telling moment.
: : Cheryl
:
: ___________________
:
: We get so much information about the characters in this scene.
: We se the people of Meryton amusing themselves in maybe a little
: noisy manner. we see how mrs Bennet rather vulgarily almost trow her daugters
: at mr Bingley and hear her exlamaitions about how handsome mr Darcy is
: and about he having 10000 pound a year.Then he stalks away and
: she becomes annoyed and is declaring that he is not at all handsome ;).
: Darcys entrance into the rome is magnific.You can see why the gets
: the attention of the whole room because of his good looks and
: we also se why his a bit arrogant behaviour can offend people.
: He probably did not at all want to go to the party but maybe wanted to
: stay at Netherfield reading a book;) but since Bingley want to go hegoes to.
: and then when he is there finding everything and everyone rather vulgar.
: Then his friend has a great time and tries to get him to dance with an
: unknown girl.(he is maybe shy also) He angrily replies that he does not
: want to dance(unless it is with someone very attractive).I can
: sympatize a little with him there (I have behaved in a simalar way once).
: But he is offending Lizzy. We se her at first loking at him a little
: maybe she is a little intrested in him after all.But then he snubs her.
: she smiles walks past him.and then it happens he really LOOKS at her.
: He has met his fate and is beginning to get hooked.
: Anna-Karin
___________________
In connection with the snub, I did not think it was that bad. He did not intentionally hurt Lizzy: he had no notion she was hearing, and I always understood his remark as that he doesn't like dancing, and it would need something reaally exceptionable, therefore, for him to dance, and Lizzie is not interesting enough for that. So, I agree with you!!!!!!!!!
Marsha
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