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Posted by Amy on October 05, 1996 at 10:48:06:
Cheyl,
I am fascinated by this question too. I've even pitched it as a story idea to A&E magazine and have thought about trying Wired. Here's the way I've thought about it, and have named the quandry for myself: "When otherwise rational women lose their heads."
I don't have the answers, so I welcome your interest in inquiring into them.
Here are some of the inconclusive thoughts I've had about the phenomenon:
-- As you said, romance has something to do with it, but that can't be the whole thing. Like you, I don't read Harlequins or pine like this over everthing.
-- Firth has something to do with it. Firthlisters are obsessed with P&P2 as well. They think they know the reason. And who is to say they are not right? Maybe we are in denial, but I still believe it's Darcy we have the crush on.
-- A few on the Austen-L list are obsessed. That's how I first got the idea for this group. The addiction was reported by five or six members and I jokingly proposed starting a support group. (When list members begged for no secession, I went ahead with the plan but recruited from scratch, resulting in a group with quite a different character from either AUSTEN-L or the Firthlist.) I think in the cases of AUSTEN-L members, their passion for the film was born out a love for Austen stories paired with the loving care to preserving her intentions in this production.
-- ARE we obsessive t ypes generally? In my case, I can become obsessive about other things: an idealized crush on an old friend; web site making; getting on "kicks" with authors, not satisfied until I've read everything they have written. But it isn't excessive or anywhere near psychotic. I don't watch other movies over and over. I do get kidded by my father for re-reading favorite books.
That's long enough for now. Look forward to hearing if any of you identify with some of this.
Amy
P.S. Cheryl's opening statement and my response are extra long posts -- making a good opportunity to ask responders to try and learn to edit the quoted material. Usually there is one sentence, paragraph or idea that you wish to follow up on. Just quote that part of the previous post and delete the rest. Two good reasons for doing this: takes up less bandwidth; makes the posts easier to read.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 05, 1996 at 10:51:36:
Darcy has cut Bingley's apron strings, and the man is left to fend for himself.
___________________
Then there is a lovely visual accompaniment to the idea. Darcy takes off in the carriage. Bingley's on his own.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 05, 1996 at 10:54:11:
: I am also sorry. I wasn't actually going to send you a virus. It was more of a joke. sorry again.
___________________
Hey Luke:
Thanks for apologizing, even if your big sister did make you do it. You ought to correspond with my 12-year-old son, who makes web pages too and has aspirations of hackerhood. I am attempting to channel it.
Amy
Posted by Anne on October 05, 1996 at 13:05:44:
: Do ya'll think he might have been a special friend to Darcy - considering the situation with Lydia and Wickham, Darcy may have had trouble finding a priest who would perform the ceremony in a reputable fashion - remember, he is trying to save Lizzie's good name and wants it all to look good and be legel - maybe this priest was close enough to Darcy to do this special favor, then of course he would be the same priest presiding over a happy occasion such as Darcy's own wedding.
: Sarah
___________________
I can accept that. The first time that I saw this I thought that they were the same person then thought that I must be mistaken due to the difference in locales. However, upon viewing the credits, there is only one vicar listed so must be the same.
Anne
Posted by Marie on October 05, 1996 at 13:32:48:
: I think this is one of Colin's little extra gifts that really brings Darcy to life for us - he is able to describe his feelings with his facial expressions only
Sarah
Yes, he really is good with his face. I particularly like his face of contempt at the early dances.
___________________
Posted by Dana on October 05, 1996 at 13:43:52:
:
: What is it fellow Janites, about *you* that makes you watch these films over and over again, and compels you to communicate with like minded sufferers in this forum?
: Seeking now to understand my addiction and not to simply wallow in it, I remain yours truly,
: Cheryl
___________________
Cheryl,
I don't have any conclusive answer about myself, I can only confess that my private obsession is definitely J. Ehle and not Firth. I can also admit I had different obsessions during different periods in my short but intensive life (Kafka, V. Wolf, Folkner and some Israeli writers you probebly never heard of).
As I know myself, those obsessions usually fade away after a while and I move on to the next thing I get hooked on. My advice to all my fellow obsessors is not to try and understand the phenomenon, just to enjoy it, because it won't last forever...
I tried to fight my obsessions, until I realized its useless, Obsessions have their own peculiar mechanism. Just let it be.
Yours etc.
Dana
P.S Pardon my bad English, It's not my first language, and although I can read fluently, my writing needs much improvment yet.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Jane on October 05, 1996 at 14:49:19:
: Darcy has cut Bingley's apron strings, and the man is left to fend for himself.
: ___________________
:
: Then there is a lovely visual accompaniment to the idea. Darcy takes off in the carriage. Bingley's on his own.
___________________
Aren't both things happening? Darcy has changed, and is willing to be honest with his friend, and Bingley, after missing Jane for many months, now realizes that his great friend can misjudge and make mistakes. Bingley is learning to trust his own judgement. I agree, it is a lovely scene. I also find it such a relief that Jane is finally going to get what she nearly lost and so deserves. It also shows again how incredibly good natured Bingley is, not to be more angry with Darcy for the London deception.
Jane
Posted by Donna on October 05, 1996 at 14:57:46:
: Dear Friends,
: I have been contemplating on what it is that has reduced (or elevated, as the case may be) us to our present state of addiction. We talk at length about this wonderful production, the characters, the faithfulness to the novel, the animal magnetism of Darcy, etc. but the time has come to admit that it is not P&P2 or even Jane Austen that has made us obsessive; it is we ourselves.
: I have two very dear friends, our tastes are common, we have similar backgrounds and beliefs. We watched P&P2 together, we have also gone out to see S&S, Emma, etc. and while they enjoyed the films, they do not feel the need (as I do) to see them over (and over) again, or to read the books, or to disect them, or to discuss it with others. And we must admit that millions of people have seen P&P2 and have managed to move on with their lives. So it is us, and not the film, that is at fault.
: In reading the bios we find that we are from all walks of life, yet something in our make up draws us in and these characters become real to us. Are we all romantics? Is it as simple as that? I never really thought of myself as such before, I do not read romance novels (either classical (before I discovered Jane, that is) or modern). I do not necessarily believe in "happily ever after," but perhaps I secretly long to have everything work out in the end, to believe that there are such men as Darcy in the world, to wish for a sense of civility in an ever increasingly uncivil world.
: What is it fellow Janites, about *you* that makes you watch these films over and over again, and compels you to communicate with like minded sufferers in this forum?
: Seeking now to understand my addiction and not to simply wallow in it, I remain yours truly,
: Cheryl
___________________
Never read much before to busy with kids,because when I read nothing else gets done. Now after being a
mother for 13 years and a wife for seventeen its my turn to have other interest.
I make time for myself. Everyone else as things they want to do and so do I. When my youngest was born
was able to even play the piano,because it would wake him up. I've always liked words and they way JA writes them,
is amazing.
If you have kids you'll understand what I mean. P&P is captivating and
Colin Firth has made it so much more.
ciao Donna,
Posted by Ann on October 05, 1996 at 15:04:32:
: -- ARE we obsessive t ypes generally? In my case, I can become obsessive about other things: an idealized crush on an old friend; web site making; getting on "kicks" with authors, not satisfied until I've read everything they have written. But it isn't excessive or anywhere near psychotic. I don't watch other movies over and over. I do get kidded by my father for re-reading favorite books.
: Amy
I too am a serial obsessive. I fixate on one thing, devour
it, digest it, and absorb it for months--if not years.
Most of my obsessions revolve around TV and politics, but
some are authors: Margery Allingham, Ngaio Marsh, and of
course JA. I not only have to read everything they ever
wrote, but I even try to read them in chronological order,
so that I can gain insights into the evolution of the
author.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Ann on October 05, 1996 at 15:18:01:
: Darcy has cut Bingley's apron strings, and the man is left to fend for himself.
: ___________________
:
: Then there is a lovely visual accompaniment to the idea. Darcy takes off in the carriage. Bingley's on his own.
I like Darcy's side of the scene. He knows that he has lost
his position of supreme respect in his friend's eyes (who
before had never known a more awful object than Darcy).
When he asks if Bingley needs his consent the subtext is:
"Bingley, after all I have done to hurt you, after all of
the pain I caused you and Jane, do you really need my
permission to do what I should not have stopped you from
doing a year ago!
Then when he rides away, he knows that Bingley will soon be
engaged to his own Miss Bennet, and that by the time Darcy
returns from London Bingley will probably know Elizabeth
better, and be closer to her, than he ever expects to be.
(Scarcely ever allowing himself to hope to win his Miss
Elizabeth Bennet).
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 05, 1996 at 15:22:40:
: I don't have any conclusive answer about myself, I can only confess that my private obsession is definitely J. Ehle and not Firth.
___________________
Dana,
Your English is fine. This is interesting. Are you bi or lesbian?
The reason I ask is because there have been some (apparently straight, but who can know ) guys posting here about a feeling for Lizzy that is remarkably like our feeling for Darcy. I thought maybe somebody who is bi could explain why the two happen to have such similar appeals.
Amy
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 05, 1996 at 15:30:29:
OR -
It could have been that they thought no one would notice. He is onscreen for such
a small amount of time that only those of it who watch it a multitude of times would
even notice.
Anne
Follow Ups:
Posted by Amy on October 05, 1996 at 15:49:36:
: OR -
: It could have been that they thought no one would notice. He is onscreen for such
: a small amount of time that only those of it who watch it a multitude of times would
: even notice.
___________________
Would they take that chance? I almost think you might be right. Myself, I didn't pay it much mind but recall thinking while watching that they look alike, yet one is so stern and the so benificent.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan also on October 05, 1996 at 16:23:33:
I just finished watching the last hour of P&P2 for the 10th time and am curious about one thing. When the letter arrives for Mr. Bennet from Mr. Collins discussing Lady Catherine's disapproval Lizzie acts as if she was expecting the letter to be from someone else. Indeed, she looks quite surprised when Mr. Bennet says the letter is from Mr. Collins. Who is she expecting the letter to be from?
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 05, 1996 at 16:39:21:
: I just finished watching the last hour of P&P2 for the 10th time and am curious about one thing. When the letter arrives for Mr. Bennet from Mr. Collins discussing Lady Catherine's disapproval Lizzie acts as if she was expecting the letter to be from someone else. Indeed, she looks quite surprised when Mr. Bennet says the letter is from Mr. Collins. Who is she expecting the letter to be from?
___________________
Lady C. had departed the previous afternoon with the threat "I shall know how to act.", and it's clear that she is expecting some kind of consequence resulting from Lady C's actions. In the book, the whole of Chapter 57 deals with Lizzie's anxiety over this, and in this chapter, she ends up thinking that the letter is actually from Darcy himself.
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Sarah on October 05, 1996 at 17:07:33:
:
: : What is it fellow Janites, about *you* that makes you watch these films over and over again, and compels you to communicate with like minded sufferers in this forum?
:
: ___________________
:
Cheryl,
For me this has something to do with Jane's characters and sense of good endings. It seems like I know people in my own life that remind me of these characters - they are familiar to me. I am definately romantic in the sense that I enjoy a good story with a few twists and touches of reality thrown in, but inevitably want it to end well. No doubt that Colin did give us a Darcy that was certainly something to fixate on - a rich, proud man who is overcome by his own passion for a beautiful, but "lower" woman --- could have been me!!! I like to watch it again and again because it seems like every time i watch it, something new jumps out at me - either a phrase or particular mannerism that explains something i didn't get the last time! It leaves me with a good feeling - best foundation for productive daydreaming!!
Sarah
Posted by The Mysterious H.C. on October 05, 1996 at 17:10:17:
:
- Bloomington, Indiana:
:- Home of John Mellancamp, Hoagie Carmichael, Bobby Knight, college town of Theodore Dreiser and Ernie Pyle, setting for Breaking Away.
Follow Ups:
Posted by Sarah on October 05, 1996 at 17:16:53:
:
: OR -
: It could have been that they thought no one would notice. He is onscreen for such
: a small amount of time that only those of it who watch it a multitude of times would
: even notice.
: Anne
___________________
Come on, Anne, work with me here!! Making up the unexplained parts is getting to be such a common pasttime for me!!!
Sarah
Follow Ups:
Posted by Dana on October 05, 1996 at 17:29:26:
: : I don't have any conclusive answer about myself, I can only confess that my private obsession is definitely J. Ehle and not Firth.
: ___________________
: Dana,
: Are you bi or lesbian?
:
: Amy
___________________
Amy,
None. theoretically, I prrefer women. I find their company much more obliging. But, unfortunately, I am terribly attracted to men.
(I do admire your frankness though...and do not regard it as capital offense.)
I just find J. Ehle's charm irresistable, and if to use a quote:
"... I wouldn't have thrown her out of my bed" (Hair)
yours &c
dana
Posted by Ann on October 05, 1996 at 17:54:55:
: : I just finished watching the last hour of P&P2 for the 10th time and am curious about one thing. When the letter arrives for Mr. Bennet from Mr. Collins discussing Lady Catherine's disapproval Lizzie acts as if she was expecting the letter to be from someone else. Indeed, she looks quite surprised when Mr. Bennet says the letter is from Mr. Collins. Who is she expecting the letter to be from?
:
: ___________________
: Lady C. had departed the previous afternoon with the threat "I shall know how to act.", and it's clear that she is expecting some kind of consequence resulting from Lady C's actions. In the book, the whole of Chapter 57 deals with Lizzie's anxiety over this, and in this chapter, she ends up thinking that the letter is actually from Darcy himself.
: Joan, too
Yes. She first believes it is from Lady C. making good on
her threat to prevent any engagement. But then, when Mr B.
says that he did not know he had two daughters getting
married, Lizzy thinks that it is from Darcy asking for Mr B.'s
consent to marry Lizzy. At this thought Lizzy gets a bit
miffed that he didn't write to her first!
Ann
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