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Posted by Kathy on October 04, 1996 at 15:27:08:
: : : It's amazing the little things you notice on the nth time watching
: : : P&P2. I normally just start with video 3 and go to the end as that
: : : is my favorite part of the show. However, I was watching the first
: : : episodes again and love the way Mr. Darcy rolls his eyes back when
: : : Mrs. Bennet is speaking after visiting Jane at Netherfield.
: : : Anne
: : :
: : : ________________
: : :
: :
: : ___________________
: : He also does something like that when Lizzy is playing the Piano-forte
: : with Colonel Fitz. and 'flirting' with Darcy; Lady C. calls in and
: : demands to know what they are talking about.
: : Bea
: This of course points out that some of his relatives are as
: bad, in their own way, as hers. One cannot pick one's family.
: Ann
___________________
I thought too that it showed his pride was indeed improper with regard to the distastefullness of Lizzy's family to him when his was just as distasteful to her though at least Lizzy could laugh about it. Kathy
Posted by Marsha on October 04, 1996 at 15:39:09:
:
: : Isn't it out of character for Miss Bingley? I can't imagine her helping any other female to snare a husband first?
: : Marsha
:
: ___________________
: Even though it's not really the same thing, she did try to hook her brother up with Georgiana. (This, however, was not without it's own self-severing purposes.)
: Stefanie
___________________
Like Lizzie says, she does it hoping that one union will bring on another. By the way, I thought it was an interesting parallel that to the outside world (and probably to Miss Bingley) what she had hoped for herself, had happened to Lizzie, the one she can't stand the most. One union in the family (Bingley & Jane's) brought on another (at least that's hat pople like the Lucases will probably think). Only in this case it was a sister and not a brother. Rather ironic.
Marsha
Follow Ups:
Posted by Kathy on October 04, 1996 at 16:01:58:
: : From Mr. Bennet's point of view, being told about Darcy's efforts on Lydia's behalf saved him (Mr. Bennet, that is) the effort of trying to pay back
: : Mr. Gardiner. Not that I am sure he ever would have.
: ___________________
:
: And why should he? Who should lay out money but her own uncle?
: To me, expecting that people will take care of you is one of the worst character flaws there is. Austen must have thought so too. In S&S, Fanny says something about how there is no telling what the Dashwood ladies might expect -- probably projecting her own expectations were she in their place.
: Amy
___________________
Astute observation about Fanny and I agree a flaw indeed but is seems the times left ladies in desperation as to an alternative to thinking this way almost.
Posted by Chris on October 04, 1996 at 16:16:27:
I am so glad someone brought up Mr. Collins, because I LOVED THE
QUIRKY CHARACTER!! I thought the part was so well played. I
laughed so much and thought he was hilarious! I also loved the
picture of the actor (I'm sorry, his name escapes me just now), in
"The Making of P& P". Didn't even look like the same man! I
think the actor did a FABULOUS job and can't imagine Mr. Collins
being played by anyone else. Mrs. Bennet drove me crazy the
first time I saw P & P. But after I saw it again (and again and
again), I really learned to appreciate her quirkiness as well.
Just so much fun! I thought they were both terrific!
: Mr. Collins dances so incredibly chicken-like. Did anybody notice?
: Anyone interested in a Mr. Collins fan club? I fell in love with his dancing the moment I saw it!
: It was so... so... interesting. Just look at how he swept Lizzy off her feet, or rather, bumped her off her feet!
: "Other way Mr.Collins!" Responses anyone?
___________________
Posted by Amy on October 04, 1996 at 17:00:32:
Marsha:
>> always used to thing that it is better to marry anyone, who isn't "naturally bad" than not marry at all, esp. in 19th cent, but after getting to know Mr Collins, I found out I was wrong.
___________________
Aren't these stories just full of lessons? And you know what else is neat? You read them again in a different phaase of your life and you discover a whole new and different set of lessons.
Amy
Posted by Amy on October 04, 1996 at 17:07:58:
: Like Lizzie says, she does it hoping that one union will bring on another. By the way, I thought it was an interesting parallel that to the outside world (and probably to Miss Bingley) what she had hoped for herself, had happened to Lizzie
______________
It's what Mrs Bennet hoped for too at the dreaded Netherfield supper.
Amy
Posted by kathleen on October 04, 1996 at 17:07:59:
: Regarding the ideas for sequels, etc., -- the file linked to below contains a lot of joking(?) ideas for updatings of Jane Austen novels (see earlier in the file for other Austen character-related jokes)
___________________
Marvelous -- I laughed out loud, more than once. I immediately wanted to share the jokes w/ my friends, but then I remembered: they don't get Jane Austen (and they already think I'm a bit obsessive
about the subject.)
Thank you.
kathleen
Posted by Amy on October 04, 1996 at 17:21:28:
Laura & Donna T --
It is my pleasure. Truly. I get the same fuzzy feeling. When I log on and see a bunch of new messages popping out in the unread color, I think, 'Oh good.' And go make a pot of coffee. You guys make this thing.
Amy
Posted by kathleen on October 04, 1996 at 17:27:13:
: : : My point, although perhaps poorly articulated was, had Mr. Collins, in his misunderstandings (and condesension -- ooh, I love that word!),
: : : gone to Mr. Bennet and told him that Lizzy had accepted him, would Mr. Bennet have consented!
: : : Bea
: : __________________
: : I am certain that he would not have (although Mr. Collins might have thought he had!), as he would not have believed Elizabeth had
: : accepted. I was thinking that he might have enjoyed having Mr. Collins as a son-in-law (he could always ridicule him w/o Collins having
: : a clue), but not as the husband of his favorite daughter -- he would do for Mary, certainly.
: : kathleen
:
: ___________________
: I agree. He only consented to darcy, because he thought she wanted him
: Marsha
___________________
Yes, but he was afraid that it was for the wrong reason -- that she wanted to marry Darcy
because he was Jane's husband(-to-be)'s friend, or because he was rich, or maybe just
to get away from home w/ Jane leaving (the only other sensible female in the house,
after all). So he doesn't have complete faith in her decision, until she talks to him, at
least his concerns are based on his affection for her (and his recognition of his own
mistake in the marriage business).
kathleen
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 04, 1996 at 18:21:51:
: Then you probably liked Braveheart. I never understood the appeal of Mel Gibson til I saw it. Fave line: "If you run...
: you'll live." (pronounced "luff")
: Amy
___________________
Always liked Mel -- did not see Braveheart however. My brother-in-law met him
at the hotel he (my brother-in-law) worked at. Said he was a really nice guy.
Talked to the desk staff for a while, etc. All of his 'people' were very nice
too. Some of their "important" guests were not always very nice.
Posted by Marsha on October 04, 1996 at 18:53:51:
Does anyone know what is the matter with "Ostentatious Jane Jane Austen page" I tried to load it a couple of times, both from the browser, and from within liks of P&P, but the only message I would get is that it is forbiddent, and that this site or client does not have the right to load it. Can anyone HELP!!!!!!!!????????
Thanks, Marsha
Follow Ups:
Posted by Donna on October 04, 1996 at 19:36:36:
: Does anyone know what is the matter with "Ostentatious Jane Jane Austen page" I tried to load it a couple of times, both from the browser, and from within liks of P&P, but the only message I would get is that it is forbiddent, and that this site or client does not have the right to load it. Can anyone HELP!!!!!!!!????????
: Thanks, Marsha
___________________
I noticed that also ,I forget what the front page looks, I
don't think I ever really got connected to that page.
Donna
Posted by Ann on October 04, 1996 at 19:42:53:
: Ann said:
: : Is it just me or is Baines a lousy fencer!! He seems to be
: : pretty bad at it.
:
: Fine points of fencing I don't know but I have noticed how he bows and scrapes to Darcy. Austen never shows Darcy interacting with anyone outside his class so this is Davies' chance to let us see how he is perceived in the wider world. It has crossed my P&P-addled brain that the fencing master* would have to teach such a man in a servile way and let him look good. (Not hard to do in this case). It reminds me of Salieri describing how grateful and lucky he felt to hold the post of court composer in Amadeus. "Correcting the royal fingering."
: ___________________________________
: *How do you know how his name is spelled?
Total guess. Seems to be the way the English would spell it.
: : (But then I may be getting picky from watching too much
: : "Highlander")
:
: Then you probably liked Braveheart. I never understood the appeal of Mel Gibson til I saw it. Fave line: "If you run...
: you'll live." (pronounced "luff")
: Amy
Actually, No. I never saw Braveheart.
I got turned off by a line in the commercial.
I don't remember the exact words but it went something like:
"They may take our take homes, they may take our wives, but
they will never take our freedom!"
All I could think was: what about your wives' freedom?
But I fell in love with Gibson way back when he did "A Year
of Living Dangerously". That is one of my favorite films, and
I recommend it to all.
Ann
Posted by Ann on October 04, 1996 at 19:46:39:
: : : :This is just an *a propos* (I don't have italics) thought. I take beginning fencing, and I just thought, that besides my interest in his reasons in this scene, I take my hat off (metaphorically) for Darcy's knowing how to fence at all!!!! It requires lots of coordination, quickness and strength (at least more than I have)
: (I have to stop typing this one, to rub my sore sword-arm muscles... My respect for every fencer increased 2000 times since I took the class!!!!!!!!
: Marsha
:
The production staff also knew enough to have them shake
with their left hands. Always nice when a film gets the
details right!
Firth also had some experience with fencing from Valmont.
Ann
Posted by Ann on October 04, 1996 at 19:54:29:
:
: Sure, P&P 2 is Firth's most appealing & flattering role to date, but if you've seen him in other films it's amazing what a fine actor he is,inhabiting such a variety of roles - the movies may not all be great but in every one he does an excellent job. It's hard to believe that Simon in "Circle of Friends" is played by the same actor who plays Darcy in P&P2 or John McCarthy in "Hostages" or Adrian in "Apartment Zero, justifying all praise of his acting talents.
Actually, I still don't think he is a great actor. I haven't
seen Tumbledown or Another Country though, so I think I may
be missing his best work. In a lot of his films he seems to
get a lot of milage out of different variations of what we
here call "the Look". That is, his burning passionate stare
which melts the heart of everyone with two X chromosomes,
and some with a Y as well. He does it in Valmont, Month in
the Country, Femme Fatale, a bit in the Advocate, and of
course P&P. He seems to specialise in characters suffering
from unrequited love.
Ann
Follow Ups:
Posted by Joan, too on October 04, 1996 at 20:49:32:
: I believe that Mrs. Gardiner had an inkling. When Darcy is showing them down to the lake and Mrs. Gardiner comments on the fact that he is not
: as proud and cold as she was led to believe - Lizzy says that she cannot understand the change and Mrs. Gardiner says
: "Can you not?" and gives her a look that led *me* to believe that she could tell very well what was going on.
: Anne
:
___________________
I thought it interesting that Lizzie, who kept telling Jane that anyone who had seen Jane and Bingley together could not doubt that he loved her, yet she appears completely unaware that the same is true of those who see L & D together.
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Anne on October 04, 1996 at 20:52:26:
___________________
Just had a thought -- I believe during that time that women
in the family way were relieved of 'wifely obligations'.
If true, then Charlotte having many children would relieve
her of being intimate with Mr. C for quite a few years. She
might well consider it a worthy trade.
Anne
Posted by Joan, too on October 04, 1996 at 20:55:33:
: ___________________
: If I were her (or him) I can't imagine not falling in love while P&P. Actors are always being consumes by their roles.
___________________
However, it is likely in cases such as these, that the actors involved discover, once the production schedule is over, that it was the character rather than the person that they were in love with - in the same manner that several here have commented that they had discovered that it was not Colin Firth in whom they are interested, but rather, Darcy.
Joan, too
Follow Ups:
Posted by Mich on October 04, 1996 at 21:07:28:
: : : : My point, although perhaps poorly articulated was, had Mr. Collins, in his misunderstandings (and condesension -- ooh, I love that word!),
: : : : gone to Mr. Bennet and told him that Lizzy had accepted him, would Mr. Bennet have consented!
: : : : Bea
: : : __________________
: : : I am certain that he would not have (although Mr. Collins might have thought he had!), as he would not have believed Elizabeth had
: : : accepted. I was thinking that he might have enjoyed having Mr. Collins as a son-in-law (he could always ridicule him w/o Collins having
: : : a clue), but not as the husband of his favorite daughter -- he would do for Mary, certainly.
: : : kathleen
: :
: : ___________________
: : I agree. He only consented to darcy, because he thought she wanted him
: : Marsha
: ___________________
: Yes, but he was afraid that it was for the wrong reason -- that she wanted to marry Darcy
: because he was Jane's husband(-to-be)'s friend, or because he was rich, or maybe just
: to get away from home w/ Jane leaving (the only other sensible female in the house,
: after all). So he doesn't have complete faith in her decision, until she talks to him, at
: least his concerns are based on his affection for her (and his recognition of his own
: mistake in the marriage business).
: kathleen
___________________
ON the other hand...
We need to take into consideration that not all marriages were based on love.
Some were considered good matches (Money and Status) and Mr Bennet would have realised Darcy was an excellent
catch for his daughter in this way.
He clearly did not feel he could refuse Mr. Darcy and tried to talk Lizzie into doing it.
I don't believe he would have dared to offend a man of Darcy stature. I would like to believe
he was not influenced by such things but status was a large part of these peoples lives.
Just a thought
Mich
Posted by Joan, too on October 04, 1996 at 21:08:09:
: Amy:
: Wait a second. Am I dreaming or did we just go through this?
___________________
Yes, but since the number of posts per day has been very large, and as of this very moment there are only 4 days worth of posts still currently "alive", anyone who arrived in the past few days could easily have missed it.
Joan, too
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